08-06-15 04:53 AM
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  1. redlightblinking's Avatar
    So people are having a discussion with counter points.

    Others are having an argument with antsy and snarky replies.

    Guys, I think we might need Supermod!
    Just curious which one you think is the antsy snarky one? Is it the one asking for clarification or the one using hyperbolic language in accusing the other of being a "mad" fanboy, uh, I mean "girl" who needs to take pills?
    06-23-14 08:33 AM
  2. Shadowyugi's Avatar
    Mate, I'm neither interested nor involved. You can ask your frenemy directly.

    I'm just a spectator with popcorn.
    06-23-14 08:42 AM
  3. ummie4's Avatar
    People that I have talked to moved away from a physical keyboard because all phones that had them have small screens. They moved on because of the screen size not because of the keyboard. After the passport launches I would bet you would be surprised how many will return.

    Posted via CB10
    BroncoVAL likes this.
    06-23-14 08:48 AM
  4. redlightblinking's Avatar
    People that I have talked to moved away from a physical keyboard because all phones that had them have small screens. They moved on because of the screen size not because of the keyboard. After the passport launches I would bet you would be surprised how many will return.

    Posted via CB10

    Agreed. It wasn't the actual keyboard so much as the space it took away for more screen. Which is why I think a slider would be such a hit because you could have both. Or, if they just made a larger phone in general that.....even with a keybooard....still had ample screen space.

    You're always going to have some people who just don't want a keyboard because it's not cool or they just don't see the need, etc. But, I think many glass-slab phone users secretly yearn for those keys.
    06-23-14 08:58 AM
  5. lionheartsimon's Avatar
    What is Chen thinking??-blackberry-antic.jpeg

    This is what business people were willing to carry as a phone back then while every hip people were carrying motorola razr flip phone and so on ... And you gonna tell me that the passport, looking light years away from that, that can take pictures, high res videos and compete spec for specs with a 2 year old desktop cpu won,t be able to sell in the corporate world ? I'd bet me my money on Chen, guy has made his research on BlackBerry history before making those decisions. I'm getting a passport as soon as thing thing comes out out of the gates !!!
    Shadowyugi likes this.
    06-23-14 09:01 AM
  6. BB_Junky's Avatar
    In technology you HAVE to keep moving forward if you stand still and you will be left behind. But if you do what Blackberry are doing and go backwards you go down a route you will not return from. Physical keyboard are a thing of the past there is a reason why the likes of Samsung and Apple don't use them, Sometimes things like the Passport haven't been done because there isn't a market for them.
    I have to agree, but this is the way they want to go so,all the power to them. I was hesitant about switching but since I dropped my Z30 yesterday and smashed the screen..... I guess it's an IPhone future for me.



    Sent from my super secret shoe device using Tapatalk HD
    06-23-14 09:11 AM
  7. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    Agreed. It wasn't the actual keyboard so much as the space it took away for more screen. Which is why I think a slider would be such a hit because you could have both. Or, if they just made a larger phone in general that.....even with a keybooard....still had ample screen space.

    You're always going to have some people who just don't want a keyboard because it's not cool or they just don't see the need, etc. But, I think many glass-slab phone users secretly yearn for those keys.
    Strongly disagree. Passport will at most attract keyboard users and negligible number of touchscreen users. Don't get fooled by the fact just because the Passport has a bigger screen than the Q10 (4.5" is not exactly big) that users will flock back to keyboard phones. Sliders are so ten years ago, doubt it'll be a hit with users because it adds thickness to phones. Again, thick phones are so 10 years ago.
    06-23-14 09:11 AM
  8. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    Every CEO that runs a company is surely a smart person, that doesn't mean their ideas won't drive a company into the ground..

    Posted via CB10
    And you think BlackBerry is not already being run to the ground by the two former CEOs Mike and Jim?
    06-23-14 09:15 AM
  9. gnirkatto's Avatar
    People that I have talked to moved away from a physical keyboard because all phones that had them have small screens. They moved on because of the screen size not because of the keyboard. After the passport launches I would bet you would be surprised how many will return.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree and think this is the main point.
    Many (if not most) of the people I talked with told me that now that they had a full touchscreen they hated typing on it, which is also reflected by the fact that many of their messages turned out to be hardly readble due to lots of typos. However, none of them was ready to give up screen space by getting one of the KB phones that were available.
    The Passport MIGHT become a game changer. For some, maybe even the Classic.Time will tell...
    06-23-14 09:16 AM
  10. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Strongly disagree. Passport will at most attract keyboard users and negligible number of touchscreen users. Don't get fooled by the fact just because the Passport has a bigger screen than the Q10 (4.5" is not exactly big) that users will flock back to keyboard phones. Sliders are so ten years ago, doubt it'll be a hit with users because it adds thickness to phones. Again, thick phones are so 10 years ago.
    I didn't say anything about the Passport.

    Sliders 10 years ago? Me thinks you exaggerate. You can still buy them now, or at least in the last few months when I saw some on phone web sites. Yes, it adds thinkness...but have you seen the cases people put on their phones? Clearly some people aren't all that concerned with overall thinkness.

    Thick phones are 10 years ago? What is "thick" in your opinion? And.....why are you referencing 10 years ago...a time before any sliders even existed? (let alone phones with massive cases or large Note 2 phones).
    06-23-14 09:19 AM
  11. redlightblinking's Avatar
    And you think BlackBerry is not already being run to the ground by the two former CEOs Mike and Jim?
    Since those two are not running the company....they can't be running it anywhere...including into the ground. They may have pointed it there and it's scraping earth, but that doesn't mean it's still headed on the same exact path as it was when they were there.
    06-23-14 09:21 AM
  12. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    I didn't say anything about the Passport.

    Sliders 10 years ago? Me thinks you exaggerate. You can still buy them now, or at least in the last few months when I saw some on phone web sites. Yes, it adds thinkness...but have you seen the cases people put on their phones? Clearly some people aren't all that concerned with overall thinkness.

    Thick phones are 10 years ago? What is "thick" in your opinion? And.....why are you referencing 10 years ago...a time before any sliders even existed? (let alone phones with massive cases or large Note 2 phones).
    Well then, I'll rephrase it:

    KEYBOARD phones with LARGER SCREENS will at most attract keyboard users and negligible number of touchscreen users. Don't get fooled by the fact just because a KEYBOARD PHONE has a bigger screen than the Q10 that users will flock back to keyboard phones.

    Is that better?
    06-23-14 09:28 AM
  13. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    I didn't say anything about the Passport.

    Sliders 10 years ago? Me thinks you exaggerate. You can still buy them now, or at least in the last few months when I saw some on phone web sites. Yes, it adds thinkness...but have you seen the cases people put on their phones? Clearly some people aren't all that concerned with overall thinkness.

    Thick phones are 10 years ago? What is "thick" in your opinion? And.....why are you referencing 10 years ago...a time before any sliders even existed? (let alone phones with massive cases or large Note 2 phones).
    I don't care about websites because you can pretty much buy anything on the internet. The wild is what matters - count the number of slider phones you've seen in the past month compared to the number of touchscreens. That will tell you how popular they are. The last time I saw a keyboard phone was 2 years ago and it was a BB7 phone and the guy quickly put the phone in his bag. Just because you saw a slider/keyboard phone on the internet, it doesn't mean they are all over the place. Sales statistics show keyboard phones (and sliders) are a niche market.

    As for thickness, if sliders are so good, JC would have adopted that to the Classic or Passport but these 2 phones have traditional surface keyboards. Why is that?
    06-23-14 09:35 AM
  14. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    Some of you keep comparing BlackBerry market to Samsung and Iphone. Folks BlackBerry lost in the consumers market. There's no catching up at least for a long time. The launch of Z10 and Z30 failed with or without marketing. The Z3 is an attempt to see if BlackBerry somehow can convince more consumers will adapt to BB10 and touch screen devices. I too like BlackBerry to launch another high end touch screen. But the market is not there at least not yet. There's a reason why the company is launching two keyboards devices. Many current BlackBerry users are still with OS7. This is another attempt to get them to cross over to BB10. Obviously majority of BB users are non touch screen users. This is the market BlackBerry trying to retain and stop the bleeding. BlackBerry do not have the luxury of time nor expenses to cater to a smaller market. Yes, despite some of the enthusiastic fan base, BlackBerry essentially has to pick either or. Kind of the way they abandoned the Playbook users and focus on their core customers. A collateral damage. You know how John Chen said BlackBerry was a very sick patient and how it's coming out of intensive care? That's how dire of a situation BlackBerry is in. Would you let armchair critics decide the faith of your love one? Or you rather employ someone with an expertise to bet against the odd?
    06-23-14 09:36 AM
  15. Steven Bolen's Avatar
    I think one thing we forget to consider is that Blackberry is targeting all other countries other than North America. They know the market here is saturated and too competitive right now for them to even compete. I bet they don't even have a budget for N.A.
    Maybe after some results and revenue they can set aside for N.A. they will again build a flag ship just for us. Asia and those markets seem to be where their strong focus and results are.
    I hate it as I want to see the next best Z10/30 with the most up to date hardware. I guess we just have to be patient. I have no idea what the markets in Asia are wanting. My only guess is something dependable and inexpensive to own and operate. I suspect that Apple and Android are in those areas but not as big a demand.
    I could be wrong but can only hypothesize.
    06-23-14 09:38 AM
  16. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Well then, I'll rephrase it:

    KEYBOARD phones with LARGER SCREENS will at most attract keyboard users and negligible number of touchscreen users. Don't get fooled by the fact just because a KEYBOARD PHONE has a bigger screen than the Q10 that users will flock back to keyboard phones.
    Not sure what "fooling" you're referring to or what you're basing it on. Here's the point I was making: Keyboard users are ALL users who used to (at some point) own a keyboard phone before they migrated to the app world of (insert another phone here). That doesn't mean that some of them....those currently using an all touch device, don't secretly (or not so secretly.....Ryan Seacrest, et al) wish they could have the best of both worlds. Those that have never been on a keyboard may not see the advantage or care. But many users out there remember what it was like, even though they are no longer on a keyboard phone now. And, many may be about to finally leave a keyboard phone and might have a reason to hang around if they could have a nice compromise.

    Is that better?
    Perhaps if you addressed the rest of my post I suppose it would be better.
    06-23-14 09:42 AM
  17. redlightblinking's Avatar
    The launch of Z10 and Z30 failed with or without marketing.
    Actually it failed without marketing, since there was....barely any marketing.
    06-23-14 09:45 AM
  18. farmwersteve's Avatar
    Why do they need a keyboard to view x-rays, photos, and blueprints?

    The idea that doctors and businessmen all want keywords is flawed. My ex-gf is a doctor and says that she mostly uses her phone to read emails not send them. When she isn't typing she needs the bigger screen. Same thing applies to businesses.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    I think your anecdote about your ex gf says it all. Perhaps of she had a hw keyboard she might have got full is of her phone for both reading and sending emails.

    I for one have the z30 and love it, but at times on a bumpy road, a hardware keyboard might be better.

    Furthermore, I will absolutely be buying one of those passports..

    Finally and I truly mean no did respect to anyone, but I would put my money on Chen over anyone on this forum. And that is solely based on the fact that he is privy to much more info and long term strategy than any of us are.

    Posted via CB10
    06-23-14 10:02 AM
  19. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    Actually it failed without marketing, since there was....barely any marketing.
    I would not call Z10 launched was without marketing. The whole Alicia Key as ambassador and launch in major cities including New York plus the SuperBowl ad. They all failed. We can pick apart and dissect the reasons why the launch fail. The bottom line is Z10 was launch with quite a bit of a fanfare.
    06-23-14 10:17 AM
  20. lionheartsimon's Avatar
    Some of you keep comparing BlackBerry market to Samsung and Iphone. Folks BlackBerry lost in the consumers market. There's no catching up at least for a long time. The launch of Z10 and Z30 failed with or without marketing. The Z3 is an attempt to see if BlackBerry somehow can convince more consumers will adapt to BB10 and touch screen devices. I too like BlackBerry to launch another high end touch screen. But the market is not there at least not yet. There's a reason why the company is launching two keyboards devices. Many current BlackBerry users are still with OS7. This is another attempt to get them to cross over to BB10. Obviously majority of BB users are non touch screen users. This is the market BlackBerry trying to retain and stop the bleeding. BlackBerry do not have the luxury of time nor expenses to cater to a smaller market. Yes, despite some of the enthusiastic fan base, BlackBerry essentially has to pick either or. Kind of the way they abandoned the Playbook users and focus on their core customers. A collateral damage. You know how John Chen said BlackBerry was a very sick patient and how it's coming out of intensive care? That's how dire of a situation BlackBerry is in. Would you let armchair critics decide the faith of your love one? Or you rather employ someone with an expertise to bet against the odd?
    @Bambinoitaliano, I raise my hat to you, you've nailed it with the last quote. There's a lot of fan out there who root for BlackBerry not knowing why BlackBerry was a staple in our history in the first place. They became popular by accident but their true nature is in the business world where keyboard rule and where status dictates how things will go down. People bought BB first and foremost for email mobility, where that one email missed could mean a lot of money lost, this is what was all about. Now, it's time to re-invent the landscape, a bit how BB did in 2000 and a bit how Samsung came out with the SG Note, I was first in line to say how ridiculous and DOD that thing would be but Samsung believed in it and now suddenly phablet is the way to go. Who cares if people flocks away from the brand, maybe those people weren't BlackBerry material in the first place, John Chen has a bigger vision than the occasional whiners dangling the threat of going with either a '' me-too '' iPhone or an overrated Galaxy from Samsung. BlackBerry needs to re-establish the status of owning a piece of hardware to do business first, not pleasure, trust, once that target will be acquired, developping a full touchscreen to cather those who wants a full touchscreen will make sense.
    bambinoitaliano likes this.
    06-23-14 10:22 AM
  21. RH1Pearl's Avatar
    Not sure what "fooling" you're referring to or what you're basing it on. Here's the point I was making: Keyboard users are ALL users who used to (at some point) own a keyboard phone before they migrated to the app world of (insert another phone here). That doesn't mean that some of them....those currently using an all touch device, don't secretly (or not so secretly.....Ryan Seacrest, et al) wish they could have the best of both worlds. Those that have never been on a keyboard may not see the advantage or care. But many users out there remember what it was like, even though they are no longer on a keyboard phone now. And, many may be about to finally leave a keyboard phone and might have a reason to hang around if they could have a nice compromise.


    Perhaps if you addressed the rest of my post I suppose it would be better.
    I agree as there are always exceptions. Even some new users will find keyboards better than on-screen.
    06-23-14 10:23 AM
  22. grevan88's Avatar
    I'm not sure I see the brilliance. Some of the things he has done may be brilliant if they succeed, but that has yet to be seen.

    Before I can say he has been brilliant I want to see if the moves he has made will be wel received by the market and if they will turn around BlackBerry's fortunes. I'm not saying they won't, I just think it's too early to say one way or the other.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    I think the passport is the phone that was being developed in partnership with someone (nanhealth?) and was only going to go forward if there was some sort of purchase agreement off the bat. I think there are bigger plans for this phone.
    06-23-14 10:34 AM
  23. Bonnie Bonzai's Avatar
    What is he playing at with the Passport, He is not a stupid man he is surely a highly intelligent man. But this new device will be the device that finally kills Blackberry. In technology you HAVE to keep moving forward if you stand still and you will be left behind. But if you do what Blackberry are doing and go backwards you go down a route you will not return from. Physical keyboard are a thing of the past there is a reason why the likes of Samsung and Apple don't use them, you won't see them bringing out a physical keyboard phone as there is only a very small amount of people want them hence why Blackberry has fallen so far behind them. It's easy the Z30 is an awesome phone all they need to do is bring out a updated version of it with the specs that can compete.

    It's a sad day as I love using my Z30 and it seems as if it's going to be my last Blackberry I own as when it eventually dies of old age I will be forced to by an Android phone it's a real shame really Blackberry had a really good platform to build on with the Z30 but have decided to turn the complete wrong way. Sometimes different isn't always a good thing, Sometimes things like the Passport haven't been done because there isn't a market for them. If this was brought out when Blackberry first went to do touchscreens then it might have worked as it would be a progression towards touchscreen but to do it now is illogical and a daft thing to do.

    R.I.P Blackberry :-(

    Stuart
    Wth - BlackBerry is still making touch screens aren't they? I agree there seems to be too many versions again but the Z30 is not the last touch screen device....
    I am expecting when the dust settles, a lovely PKB device, a touch screen and one touch screen low end device.
    06-23-14 10:40 AM
  24. Tim Heard's Avatar
    OP:

    There are still a lot of folks holding onto older BlackBerry models who will hopefully make purchases when the Passport and Classic are released. Regardless of your opinion, they have hung onto those phones for quite some time because they want a QWERTY phone. Neither phone is exactly what I was hoping for, but I will likely be purchasing one and returning to Blackberry after years of having a Windows phone.

    Having said that, rumor has it that there's also an octa-core slab phone scheduled for release in 2015. My guess is that the phone is designed specifically with people like you in mind, who love the BB10 operating system, and want something that's a step up in quality and performance from the Z30.

    While I don't envision myself ever converting to a slab phone, I'm happy to know that there will be a phone that will make you happy, and I'm very optimistic that BlackBerry will be just fine in the long run.

    Also, just a reminder that BlackBerry is doing a lot of things that are unrelated to mobile device production which seem very likely to yield even more revenue than their mobile division. Again, thanks for your heartfelt concern. They will be fine.


    What is he playing at with the Passport, He is not a stupid man he is surely a highly intelligent man. But this new device will be the device that finally kills Blackberry. In technology you HAVE to keep moving forward if you stand still and you will be left behind. But if you do what Blackberry are doing and go backwards you go down a route you will not return from. Physical keyboard are a thing of the past there is a reason why the likes of Samsung and Apple don't use them, you won't see them bringing out a physical keyboard phone as there is only a very small amount of people want them hence why Blackberry has fallen so far behind them. It's easy the Z30 is an awesome phone all they need to do is bring out a updated version of it with the specs that can compete.

    It's a sad day as I love using my Z30 and it seems as if it's going to be my last Blackberry I own as when it eventually dies of old age I will be forced to by an Android phone it's a real shame really Blackberry had a really good platform to build on with the Z30 but have decided to turn the complete wrong way. Sometimes different isn't always a good thing, Sometimes things like the Passport haven't been done because there isn't a market for them. If this was brought out when Blackberry first went to do touchscreens then it might have worked as it would be a progression towards touchscreen but to do it now is illogical and a daft thing to do.

    R.I.P Blackberry :-(

    Stuart
    06-23-14 10:40 AM
  25. grevan88's Avatar
    I think the passport is the phone that was being developed in partnership with someone (nanhealth?) and was only going to go forward if there was some sort of purchase agreement off the bat. I think there are bigger plans for this phone.
    Ah, here is the article I was referring to. It was the BGR Windmere article from months ago:

    "BlackBerry is currently working with a large partner that is interested in the Windermere. We have heard rumors about this partner, but have not been able to confirm with a second source the company BlackBerry is working with. We are told the device would be manufactured and make it out of the prototype phase only if the partner decides to move forward with the phone."

    Chen is a smart man. Hes not making any rash decisions. He wouldnt do something too risky. I love how calculated he has proven to be.
    Tim Heard likes this.
    06-23-14 10:45 AM
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