08-06-15 04:53 AM
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  1. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Because BB brings nothing to the table. If we were to move to BB10, we'd ditch the BES and use AS. No different than iOS or Android. What is the compelling reason to stay with BB?
    Depends on your users needs, I guess. My compelling reason is that I use my communications device to communicate, and everything else has second priority. BB still excels and efficiently managing incoming and outgoing communications (despite the loss of notifications in BB10 from BBOS), and for some peolple the keyboard is better for the conditions they work in, for launching things faster, etc. If that's not as important, and users want access to more apps, then I guess iOS or Android works better. I guess I could ask the same question about some other phone you might be considering....which is... what is the compelling reason to choose X phone? Battery life? Screen size? I'm not criticizing, just asking. I'm curious what goes into decisions like that.
    syah iejam likes this.
    06-27-14 11:14 AM
  2. CanuckBB's Avatar
    Depends on your users needs, I guess. My compelling reason is that I use my communications device to communicate, and everything else has second priority. BB still excels and efficiently managing incoming and outgoing communications (despite the loss of notifications in BB10 from BBOS), and for some peolple the keyboard is better for the conditions they work in, for launching things faster, etc. If that's not as important, and users want access to more apps, then I guess iOS or Android works better. I guess I could ask the same question about some other phone you might be considering....which is... what is the compelling reason to choose X phone? Battery life? Screen size? I'm not criticizing, just asking. I'm curious what goes into decisions like that.
    Starts with a high amount of frustration with the current devices. All of us with company phones need 2 email addresses. One is controlled by BES, the other with BIS. The lack of proper mailbox management and the delays with BIS is frustrating. Lack of apps also plays a role.

    Now, going to BB10 would solve the email issue by having both accounts using AS.

    As a communication device, the phone is no better or worse. Most of our communications are e-mail based. Some of us use BBM. Some texts, mostly personal. If we want to keep BBM, we can now do that.

    It really comes down to this. We are at an upgrade point. Upper management is frustrated with the current devices, and it's really came down between the promise of better with the OS10 devices vs seeing what was available now from iOS and Android.
    06-27-14 12:07 PM
  3. DS1331's Avatar
    The Passport may stay a niche device if price and advertising are not done properly.
    It would be a pity when you see where Blackberry comes from.
    I still admire how Blackberry managed to make the second generation of its new smartphones so boldly innovative (while the Classic aiming at bringing back legacy tool-belt addict users) .
    When you look at Apple and its first iteration from the original iphone to the plasticky 3G iphone, and compare them to the Q10 and its evolution into the Passport, that's innovation.
    The market needs that kind of stimulation as Android vs. iphone war is becoming boring, Blackberry can bring something new on the table and shake those two giants.
    If they succeed in convincing consumers that a keyboard isn't dumb as Steve Jobs thought, then they'll have so much more than a niche market to deal with.
    People need to get that keyboards can be smart too!
    And innovations regarding keyboard are only at the beginning, there's style the Lebedev style keyboard that would be awesome adapted to a phablet like the Passport!
    No more virtual keyboard on screen, the keys would change with the context and only appear when the device is turned on, we could easily get a standard keyboard lay-out back with alt and shift AND be modern too)
    http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/ga...8/img_0126.jpg
    Innovations is the whole ecosystem google and apple have people tied into, BlackBerry does not have that. A majority of people rely on google services and apple services every single day, BlackBerry not so much, people can like their phone but they aren't entrenched into an ecosystem that affects their lives on a daily basis

    Q10 Posted via CB10
    06-27-14 01:44 PM
  4. BroncoVAL's Avatar
    Innovations is the whole ecosystem google and apple have people tied into, BlackBerry does not have that. A majority of people rely on google services and apple services every single day, BlackBerry not so much, people can like their phone but they aren't entrenched into an ecosystem that affects their lives on a daily basis

    Q10 Posted via CB10
    Innovation isn't an Apple/Google ecosystem at all.
    Innovation is a new technology that disruptively changes the habit, ecosystems like Google and Apple are a sum of services adopted like habits by consumers because they see how easy they are to adopt (and they think they are free...but if it's free then you are the product they'll sell to companies behind your back)
    Two totally different things.
    I always thought one of these days people would be more security touchy and aware that their datas are to be dealt with prudence.
    Blackberry insist on the security for business, but you'll see that in the years to come personal privacy (not only related to business) will become a major actor of the e-economy.
    You already have a lot of solutions for using your own private cloud instead of cheap "services" all centralised (that is antinomic with the "spirit" and even the structure of original peer-to-peer internet).
    What is so cool today, what is the essence of the hype will pass and maybe be replace by another trend always based on your data but i really think consumers will get more and more conscious how much important are their data.
    Blackberry doesn't have yet an ecosystem that could compete with the two giants.
    But technology wise they can bring some innovation on the table, and the advent of a real smart keyboard would be a revolution even without a major ecosystem (first based on business but easily transposable to private consumers)
    currentodysseys likes this.
    06-27-14 02:47 PM
  5. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Starts with a high amount of frustration with the current devices. All of us with company phones need 2 email addresses. One is controlled by BES, the other with BIS. The lack of proper mailbox management and the delays with BIS is frustrating. Lack of apps also plays a role.

    Now, going to BB10 would solve the email issue by having both accounts using AS. .
    So....I guess your first paragraph was moot? Any upgrade wouldn't include BIS.


    As a communication device, the phone is no better or worse. Most of our communications are e-mail based. Some of us use BBM. Some texts, mostly personal. If we want to keep BBM, we can now do that.
    I disagree. No other phone lets you have all your communications in one stream. Including your drafts, your sent messages, etc, your texts, phone calls, BBM, etc. I've scoured high and low for email clients that can do this on Android. It's painful starting a draft....then going to look for it later, especially if you forgot which account you started it in. BB just has it in your list...right there, waiting for you to finish it.

    It really comes down to this. We are at an upgrade point. Upper management is frustrated with the current devices, and it's really came down between the promise of better with the OS10 devices vs seeing what was available now from iOS and Android.
    Sure, of course. Those were your choices. I was just wondering why you've already decided it won't be BB. I guess they want more apps instead of more efficient communications management? Again, I'm just curious what goes into these decisions.
    06-27-14 03:04 PM
  6. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Innovations is the whole ecosystem google and apple have people tied into, BlackBerry does not have that. A majority of people rely on google services and apple services every single day, BlackBerry not so much, people can like their phone but they aren't entrenched into an ecosystem that affects their lives on a daily basis

    Q10 Posted via CB10
    Please describe this ecosystem that you speak of. Do you mean apps? Because phone makers don't actually make apps....they hope and pray that developers will do that and thus there is no "innovation" there, just an open invitation to developers.

    Do you mean Google mail, maps, phone, cloud, etc? Because those can be used on any phone.

    How do these ecosystems that you can't get with BB affect their lives every day?
    06-27-14 03:08 PM
  7. crazigee's Avatar
    It's not exactly the same because they didn't actually say now what you pointed out they apparenlty stated out loud.......then. That's how it's different. They "dismissed" it then......not now
    Huh? I have no idea what that means so I'm just going to disregard it.

    Interesting logic. You're claim presumes that they once "focused on keyboards", then stopped focussing on keyboards for some period of time, then at some point decided to change course again and "focus" on keyboards. Please explain when they stopped focusing on keyboards (and exactly how you come to that conclusion) and then when they resumed their focus on keyboards. Otherwise, you can't say they are focusing on keyboards "again"......they've always focused on keyboards.
    OK. I'll use the word "still" instead of "again". Happy now?

    Say what? The owned the smart phone market when they only had keyboard phones. It wasn't a disaster. The disaster was....as you pointed out.....several years back when they dismissed the iPhone and were so late to introduce another product (for the NEW market Apple was creating) in addition to the phones they already made that served another market.

    Once again, you must show how you can say they are doing something "again". They've never stopped making keyboard phones, and you haven't shown how simply continuing to offer that option (even though it's the highest selling product they have) is a disaster for them. The "disaster" is not ALSO creating something that takes on Iphone and goes for that new market that Apple literally created from scratch.
    Refer to above comment.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-27-14 08:46 PM
  8. CharlieV's Avatar
    Ok I ll bite.... tell us when you have last used it though because in here we do not actually even know how the keyboard really is going to work. If you know it is too top heavy for any typing, you must have typed with the darned thing, so enlighten us.

    Oh, and clearly, anything bb I imagine is the crap of the earth due to the worst app ecosystem on the planet. I guess you can visit one of the 1.000.000.000.000 threads about "apps on bb10" in the forums and that way we can avoid another version of the same arguments, that I honestly doubt will get us anywhere ...

    nice try though and I am sorry you are suffering, try embrasing and being practical (eg, either find out how bb10 can work for you or change OS, do not suffer, no need; tech is here to serve us ).
    Well I say top heavy because the keyboard is so small in relation to the screen. Meaning that when my hands are in the keyboard I am not holding enough of the phone to keep the top steady or feel like I am in control of the phone, physically.

    The reason I think the BB 10 ecosystem is so poor is because I use both a BB OS and a BB10 device. The BB OS has a plethora of well functioning business apps. BB 10 does not. And many of the BB 10 apps are non functional or crippled due to an alleged lack of API access. For instance. Logging calls to calendar is not big deal in BB OS. In BB 10 there is exactly one option, and it does not carry over the caller's name or number for the calendar entry... From the call you just finished. It is basically a stupid way to make a calendar entry. Record your calls like a normal person? No. Those have recently become headless, but still don't record from the system. Netflix? O don't watch movies on my phone but Netflix doesn't work very well and it is an android port. YouTube? Same... Use something called super tube.

    BB 10, like most OS versions before it, is great on its own. It does the basic communication tasks well, but not as well as its predecessor. And when you start looking for apps, especially this far into the OS lifespan, the app offerings are simply lacking.

    I'm not really trying to persuade anyone with my comments and they are just opinions. I've been a member of crackberry long enough to vent occasionally., and I invested thousands in phones and servers for my own small business. BB has had a tough go for a few years, and I don't think the passport is in any way the ticket to its return.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    06-28-14 01:36 AM
  9. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Huh? I have no idea what that means so I'm just going to disregard it.
    I think I see where I messed up the present/past tense at one point. 'll try again...

    Another poster said: BB actually stated that touch screens are not going to be adopted......but made that statement it years ago. (assuming it happened at all).

    THEN I SAID: But that was years ago.....not today. So it does't apply to what (you) were saying.

    THEN YOU SAID: It's exactly the same.

    THEN I SAID. It's not exactly the same, because......BB is not saying today (that may be were I messed up the present vs. past tense which confused you) what they were saying back then ......which was your original claim that I questioned.

    So the comment from the other poster about some dismissive statement from BB years ago has nothing to do with your claim they they are dismissing Iphone.......today.


    OK. I'll use the word "still" instead of "again". Happy now?
    Considering it makes a major difference, yes. How about you?

    The change of that word completely nullifies any point you were attempting to make about BB purposely choosing to do something (after once abandoning it). Now your sentence simply says they still make keyboard phones like they always have (which is actually their best selling device).
    Last edited by redlightblinking; 06-28-14 at 11:03 AM.
    06-28-14 09:03 AM
  10. crazigee's Avatar

    I think I see where I messed up the present/past tense at one point. 'll try again...

    Another poster said: BB actually stated that touch screens are not going to be adopted......but made that statement it years ago. (assuming it happened at all).

    THEN I SAID: But that was years ago.....not today. So it does't apply to what (you) were saying.

    THEN YOU SAID: It's exactly the same.

    THEN I SAID. It's not exactly the same, because......BB is not saying today (that may be were I messed up the present vs. past tense which confused you) what they were saying back then ......which was your original claim that I questioned.

    So the comment from the other poster about some dismissive statement from BB years ago has nothing to do with your claim they they are dismissing Iphone.......today.

    Actually, it does. Chen saying that BlackBerry will focus on keyboards is dismissive of the iPhone and the importance of the touch screen. It is eerily similar to what put BlackBerry into their current predicament years ago.
    Considering it makes a major difference, yes. How about you?

    The change of that word completely nullifies any point you were attempting to make about BB purposely choosing to do something (after once abandoning it). Now your sentence simply says they still make keyboard phones like they always have (which is actually their best selling device).
    Hahaha. Best selling for BlackBerry is meaningless. It is the best selling of a line of phones that isn't profitable, and almost sank the company.

    That's akin to saying the DMC-12 was the best selling DeLorean.

    BlackBerry are STILL dismissing the iPhone.

    So far you're making a lot of sense.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Last edited by crazigee; 06-28-14 at 03:33 PM.
    06-28-14 03:22 PM
  11. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Actually, it does. Chen saying that BlackBerry will focus on keyboards is dismissive of the iPhone and the importance of the touch screen. It is eerily similar to what put BlackBerry into their current predicament years ago.

    Yes, you keep saying this but can't ever explain it. Simply saying you will focus on keyboards isn't "dismissive" of the iPhone any more it's it's dismissive of pancakes, let along other phones like Samsung, or LG, or Motorola, etc. etc. Dismissing something requires that you somehow indicate that you are.....um....dismissing it. They did this in the past. Clearly, they are no longer doing this, as indicated by the introduction of 3 phones that are pretty much like all the phones I mentioned, in that they simply don't have a keyboard. Not sure what your obsession with iPhone is here.


    Hahaha. Best selling for BlackBerry is meaningless. It is the best selling of a line of phones that isn't profitable, and almost sank the company.

    How is it meaningless? If it makes them money.....it's not meaningless. If it is the product their loyalists will still buy, how is it meaningless? If its the product that will eventually bridge them into wider markets, how is it meaningless?





    That's akin to saying the DMC-12 was the best selling DeLorean.
    You simply pulled out ONE example of a company that went out of business, a company that had only one car, that was never successful, that never made them a profit. Has no comparison to BB? Smell that? I smell it. That's the smell of desperation wafting from your posts.

    So far you're making a lot of sense.
    But you're not. Let me know if you can ever explain how simply saying you're going to make a keyboard is somehow dismissive of some particular brand of phones, that is basically the same as mulitple other phones.

    Exactly what would they have to do.......in your twisted logic......to NOT be dismissive of the iPhone? Make an iPhone????
    06-28-14 06:14 PM
  12. crazigee's Avatar
    Yes, you keep saying this but can't ever explain it. Simply saying you will focus on keyboards isn't "dismissive" of the iPhone any more it's it's dismissive of pancakes, let along other phones like Samsung, or LG, or Motorola, etc. etc. Dismissing something requires that you somehow indicate that you are.....um....dismissing it. They did this in the past. Clearly, they are no longer doing this, as indicated by the introduction of 3 phones that are pretty much like all the phones I mentioned, in that they simply don't have a keyboard. Not sure what your obsession with iPhone is here.





    How is it meaningless? If it makes them money.....it's not meaningless. If it is the product their loyalists will still buy, how is it meaningless? If its the product that will eventually bridge them into wider markets, how is it meaningless?





    You simply pulled out ONE example of a company that went out of business, a company that had only one car, that was never successful, that never made them a profit. Has no comparison to BB? Smell that? I smell it. That's the smell of desperation wafting from your posts.



    But you're not. Let me know if you can ever explain how simply saying you're going to make a keyboard is somehow dismissive of some particular brand of phones, that is basically the same as mulitple other phones.

    Exactly what would they have to do.......in your twisted logic......to NOT be dismissive of the iPhone? Make an iPhone????
    What they need to do is stop focusing on keyboards. I've said that umpteen times.

    This is becoming silly now. It's obvious that you are so focused on what you're saying and trying to be right that you are intentionally overlooking what being said. You know I'm right but you don't want to admit it so instead you focus on semantics and still vs again.

    If you can't understand the simple concept that dismissing the iPhone and the touch screen was a problem in the past and will continue to be as long as BlackBerry focuses on a keyboard phone that hardly anyone wants then there is no point in continuing to explain it.

    The expression can't see the wood for the trees comes to mind.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-28-14 07:52 PM
  13. Adif_70's Avatar
    I am switching from my Z10 to the passport. That I know is true.

    Posted via CB10
    06-28-14 09:28 PM
  14. crazigee's Avatar
    I am switching from my Z10 to the passport. That I know is true.

    Posted via CB10
    I definitely think that the Passport will appeal to certain people. I just think that it will be a small niche.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-28-14 10:10 PM
  15. currentodysseys's Avatar
    I definitely think that the Passport will appeal to certain people. I just think that it will be a small niche.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Maybe the case; you will not find many arguing against the perception that the passport is directed to a well determined audience primarily, although I believe it also aims to taunt people, and it being "special" -as in "weird-ish" can only help with that.

    if indeed the passport directed to a specific audience (which I believe does), it means more possibility of success. It would mean it is better researched and adapted to that audience, so it should be very successful with is target market and sold In a way that would most probably make it a success for blackberry. Success in your scenario (of being directed to a small niche) would mean also the phone being profitable, thus I believe it is a good move.

    Reading your posts I see you keep insisting that BlackBerry is dismissive of the iphone because they concentrate on pkbs... I honestly believe you are wrong; first of all because making something other than an "iphone" they are not being dismissive and secondly they are now in another market placement. The fact that subconsciously many people think that "if you want to succeed you need to 'copy' or make another iphone (while just after they declare: 'there cannot be another I phopne thatn the iphone'), does not make the iphone is what others should be trying to copy.

    Companies need money. BlackBerry has the user base that likes kb and is now consolidating it's core market. This means keyboards, but, it also has all touch devises out and is roumored that more all touch will be coming. So really, I do not see where the problem is. I think you are in a "partial view" seat right now.

    Finally, as much as you may want to deny it, there is market for keyboard and this is an undeniable fact. You may not like it, I respect that, but dismissive is to say "keyboards are dead" when there still is a considerable amount of people that use keyboards and want keyboards.

    To close this, I think that making a capacitative keyboard is much different than "making keyboards" in general (and I personally perceive a capacitative keyboard as an inovation), and that If this works out, I believe that many people will turn their head to have a better look to that technology.


    Just ask yourself: why do people use tablets (including many ipad users) with keyboard cases... is this because keyboards are a thing of the past? why was the keyboard attachment on the iphone such a success? ... I really think keyboard, for a considerable amount of people that are not BlackBerry users, is something that they look at with high interest. I really believe that it is a fight of "screen real estate vs practicality that makes phones and keyboards not be a "good match" for many. The passport addresses that partially and in an innovative way and to my eyes this is a good first step toward even better keyboard "phablets"... he'll, it is the very first phk phablet... and with capacitative keyboard. not sayong it is most ppls cup of tea, but from there to "irrelevant"...? Worlds apart imho.

    Cheers


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by currentodysseys; 06-29-14 at 01:55 AM.
    Tim Heard likes this.
    06-29-14 01:31 AM
  16. Koepman's Avatar
    What is he playing at with the Passport, He is not a stupid man he is surely a highly intelligent man. But this new device will be the device that finally kills Blackberry. In technology you HAVE to keep moving forward if you stand still and you will be left behind. But if you do what Blackberry are doing and go backwards you go down a route you will not return from. Physical keyboard are a thing of the past there is a reason why the likes of Samsung and Apple don't use them, you won't see them bringing out a physical keyboard phone as there is only a very small amount of people want them hence why Blackberry has fallen so far behind them. It's easy the Z30 is an awesome phone all they need to do is bring out a updated version of it with the specs that can compete.

    It's a sad day as I love using my Z30 and it seems as if it's going to be my last Blackberry I own as when it eventually dies of old age I will be forced to by an Android phone it's a real shame really Blackberry had a really good platform to build on with the Z30 but have decided to turn the complete wrong way. Sometimes different isn't always a good thing, Sometimes things like the Passport haven't been done because there isn't a market for them. If this was brought out when Blackberry first went to do touchscreens then it might have worked as it would be a progression towards touchscreen but to do it now is illogical and a daft thing to do.

    R.I.P Blackberry :-(

    Stuart
    I'll buy it and I know some people who will buy it too.. so what you are saying is totally bull****.


    Z10STL100-2/10.4.1.324
    06-29-14 02:20 AM
  17. currentodysseys's Avatar
    Well I say top heavy because the keyboard is so small in relation to the screen. Meaning that when my hands are in the keyboard I am not holding enough of the phone to keep the top steady or feel like I am in control of the phone, physically.

    The reason I think the BB 10 ecosystem is so poor is because I use both a BB OS and a BB10 device. The BB OS has a plethora of well functioning business apps. BB 10 does not. And many of the BB 10 apps are non functional or crippled due to an alleged lack of API access. For instance. Logging calls to calendar is not big deal in BB OS. In BB 10 there is exactly one option, and it does not carry over the caller's name or number for the calendar entry... From the call you just finished. It is basically a stupid way to make a calendar entry. Record your calls like a normal person? No. Those have recently become headless, but still don't record from the system. Netflix? O don't watch movies on my phone but Netflix doesn't work very well and it is an android port. YouTube? Same... Use something called super tube.

    BB 10, like most OS versions before it, is great on its own. It does the basic communication tasks well, but not as well as its predecessor. And when you start looking for apps, especially this far into the OS lifespan, the app offerings are simply lacking.

    I'm not really trying to persuade anyone with my comments and they are just opinions. I've been a member of crackberry long enough to vent occasionally., and I invested thousands in phones and servers for my own small business. BB has had a tough go for a few years, and I don't think the passport is in any way the ticket to its return.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    Thanks for your answer.

    The "top heavy" issue is non existent most probably, judging from the first impressions of hands on reviews posted in CB (not really into looking for them right now, if you look for them and cannot find them send me a pm and I ll have a look). I prefer a "let us wait and see" stance personally and from the first info we get, it seems it is well balanced in that aspect.


    That said, I understand the issue regarding BBOS7 and BB10. Nonetheless, BBOS7 apps are now quite old and are fading away. In that respect, BB10 is a better chance in most ways. To that, I would add my personal concern on native development for BB10 but also the incorporation of the android apps into BB10. All and all, apps wise, I sure believe bb10 to be in a better prospect of BBOS7... actually I know it to be so and experience that, since I was an OS7 user until the Z10 came out.

    I would also agree that many features of BBOS7 that made it special, have not initially been incorporated into BB10. I think it is obvious though that BB is making that transition quite fast as well. Also the fact that the Classic is on the way, is only but a clear indication that BB is committed into porting the usability of BBOS7 to BB10 as well in my opinion (along with the features brought in during updates gradually I think it is quite logical a conclusion to make that this is the case as well).

    I totally agree, each has their opinion; discussion in my perception serves into creating new, more informed if possible opinions by combination and exchange of information. It should be a creative process in that sense, thus every opinion intended to do that, is constructive to my eyes and welcome. So, thank you for sharing yours!

    I certainly do not know if the passport will be the ticket to the "return of BB", I most probably think it will not be the ticket, at least not by itself. But it may be a step towards it, in so many ways, excluding commercial success; being a small business owner as you said, I am sure you can picture strategic or other factors that the Passport could be a good indicator and test for.

    I say it is a bold move, it is different it certainly has my attention as a gadget enthusiast. I want to see how it will work and what it may lead to.

    I like BB and use a Q10 and also have a Z10 at the moment. Other than that though, BB making it, is BBs main concern, not mine. Do not take me wrong, I really like BB10 and I think of it being the best solution for MY personal needs. I love the OS and really like my Q10 in it being a practical beast for my work and personal communication and online interactions I want it to serve. So I do hope that BB makes it and see it grow and innovate. I think the passport is a move towards that aim... I cannot know if it will fail or succeed and in what level, but I am happy to see it on the map!.
    06-29-14 04:23 AM
  18. redlightblinking's Avatar
    What they need to do is stop focusing on keyboards. I've said that umpteen times.
    Why?

    What they need to do is stop focusing on keyboards. I've said that umpteen times.

    This is becoming silly now. It's obvious that you are so focused on what you're saying and trying to be right that you are intentionally overlooking what being said. You know I'm right but you don't want to admit it so instead you focus on semantics and still vs again.
    That's hilarious! I could say the exact same thing about you! Yep....I smell it....desperation.

    You're right.......about what? You still haven't explained what you think you're right about. Do you even know? You continually evade questions about your "dismissive" claims, just saying the same things over and over.


    If you can't understand the simple concept that dismissing the iPhone and the touch screen was a problem in the past and will continue to be as long as BlackBerry focuses on a keyboard phone that hardly anyone wants then there is no point in continuing to explain it.
    I've already acknowledged that they dismissed the iPhone in the past. No one is denying that's how they ended up late to the party.

    But they HAVE touch screen phones now. Let me say that again.......THEY HAVE THEM NOW. So how can they dismiss something that THEY MAKE?

    And why can't you answer this simple question: Why do you think that BB is dismissing JUST iPhone (one of many full touch devices) and not all the other various similar brands and devices? Why do you keep avoiding this question? Gosh, is it because YOU DON'T KNOW? Or because attempting to answer will reveal flaws in your so-called argument?

    Your logic is that Toyota should not "focus" on Hybrids that "hardly anyone wants" because they are "dismissing" the Ford F150.

    But, please, feel free to avoid the basics of the argument and just insult me instead, and make presumptive statements about me. Well played.
    06-29-14 07:46 AM
  19. crazigee's Avatar
    Why?



    That's hilarious! I could say the exact same thing about you! Yep....I smell it....desperation.

    You're right.......about what? You still haven't explained what you think you're right about. Do you even know? You continually evade questions about your "dismissive" claims, just saying the same things over and over.



    I've already acknowledged that they dismissed the iPhone in the past. No one is denying that's how they ended up late to the party.

    But they HAVE touch screen phones now. Let me say that again.......THEY HAVE THEM NOW. So how can they dismiss something that THEY MAKE?

    And why can't you answer this simple question: Why do you think that BB is dismissing JUST iPhone (one of many full touch devices) and not all the other various similar brands and devices? Why do you keep avoiding this question? Gosh, is it because YOU DON'T KNOW? Or because attempting to answer will reveal flaws in your so-called argument?

    Your logic is that Toyota should not "focus" on Hybrids that "hardly anyone wants" because they are "dismissing" the Ford F150.

    But, please, feel free to avoid the basics of the argument and just insult me instead, and make presumptive statements about me. Well played.
    The only one who has been insulting is you with you comments of "Smell it. Yep....I smell it....desperation. "

    I'm done with you. Feel free to argue with yourself.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-29-14 10:48 AM
  20. lionheartsimon's Avatar
    What they need to do is stop focusing on keyboards. I've said that umpteen times.

    This is becoming silly now. It's obvious that you are so focused on what you're saying and trying to be right that you are intentionally overlooking what being said. You know I'm right but you don't want to admit it so instead you focus on semantics and still vs again.

    If you can't understand the simple concept that dismissing the iPhone and the touch screen was a problem in the past and will continue to be as long as BlackBerry focuses on a keyboard phone that hardly anyone wants then there is no point in continuing to explain it.

    The expression can't see the wood for the trees comes to mind.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    If iPhone is such a holy grail and keyboard is such a thing of the past, how can you explain the keyboard accessory that generated a lawsuit from BlackBerry ? There was clearly a need to have a keyboard to an iPhone enough to warrant investment and risk from that company to blatantly copy the blackberry keyboard design. Sales was going well for that accessory. The concept of imitating one's company success to achieve the same one is like Mercedes-Benz trying to say "Well GM is selling more cars than us so we should copy them and come up with our own version of Chevy Cobalt !!" They tried and they failed with the B Series so what they should do is exactly what they're doing now, focusing on what brought them success because that's what they do best, keyboards !! Reinvent the keyboard and try different angles but always with the same target in mind, cater to business clients and what do the business clients wants ? Keyboard, security and features that will help them succeed.

    Posted via CB10
    06-29-14 11:53 AM
  21. gnirkatto's Avatar
    What they need to do is stop focusing on keyboards. I've said that umpteen times.
    Why?
    Because he said so, umpteen times.

    (sorry I couldn't resist).
    CDM76 likes this.
    06-29-14 11:53 AM
  22. crazigee's Avatar
    Because he said so, umpteen times.

    (sorry I couldn't resist).
    Lol.

    That was in direct response to his question on what BlackBerry should do to show that they aren't dismissing the importance of the touch screen. My answer is stop focusing on keyboards. The umpteen times is not why BlackBerry should do that, but why he should stop asking me that same question. Because I had already answered him umpteen times.

    I think that focusing on keyboards follows a pattern of strategic decisions by BlackBerry that demonstrate they still don't understand the importance of the touch screen. I'm not suggesting that BlackBerry should stop keyboard devices. Not by any means, as I still think that there is a niche market for them that BlackBerry can have a monopoly on.

    It concerns me, however, when Chen said that they would be focusing or "emphasizing" the physical keyboard. That's the same attitude that BlackBerry had when the iPhone came into the market an BlackBerry said that touch screens weren't going to last.

    My opinion is that BlackBerry should continue to make keyboard devices but focus or "emphasize" touch devices.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Last edited by crazigee; 06-29-14 at 12:40 PM.
    06-29-14 11:59 AM
  23. redlightblinking's Avatar
    The only one who has been insulting is you with you comments of "Smell it. Yep....I smell it....desperation. "

    I'm done with you. Feel free to argue with yourself.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Just as I suspected. You can't answer simple questions when put directly to you. Your accusation was flawed, and you had nothing all along.
    06-29-14 05:03 PM
  24. redlightblinking's Avatar
    Lol.

    That was in direct response to his question on what BlackBerry should do to show that they aren't dismissing the importance of the touch screen.
    No, that was in response to your original claim that they are dismissing IPhone. Remember that? Remember when I asked you why they are specfically, and only disimissing Iphone, and not any other touch screen.....and you couldn't answer?. Funny how you now change your semantics (from iphone to touch screen) when talking with someone else.

    I asked you the same question (about iPhone) because you refused to explain the specific relationship to iPhone (not touch screens). Turns out.....based on your new semantics used above.......there never was one. Just as I suspected.


    I think that focusing on keyboards follows a pattern of strategic decisions by BlackBerry that demonstrate they still don't understand the importance of the touch screen.
    Even though they also make touch screens? They have more full touch screen models out now than keyboard models.

    I asked this question above, and you didn't answer. Does Toyota not understand large pickup trucks because they also make a Prius?


    I'm not suggesting that BlackBerry should stop keyboard devices. Not by any means, as I still think that there is a niche market for them that BlackBerry can have a monopoly on.
    Then what ARE you suggesting? I asked you this above as well, and you refused to answer that too. (What should BB do to not be "dismissive" of Iphone........other than make an Iphone?) It seems you've now changed "iphone" to "touch screen".

    It concerns me, however, when Chen said that they would be focusing or "emphasizing" the physical keyboard. That's the same attitude that BlackBerry had when the iPhone came into the market an BlackBerry said that touch screens weren't going to last.
    Perhaps, you're reading way too much into his simple use of the phrase "focusing on keyboards". (Did he actually say "emphasizing" or did you embellish by putting in quotes?). Focusing on keyboards could simply mean they are not going to ignore that segment. It could simply mean they are going to put in time to make them even better. Doesn't mean they are trashing and discontinuing phones that don't have a keyboard.

    The attitude when iphone came to market was....as you said...."touch screen aren't' going to last". That was dismissive. But do you REALLY THINK they have the same attitude now, considering they now have multiple touch screen phones out and more coming? Of course, this is more of a rhetorical question since you pretty much refuse to answer any pointed questions about your logic.
    DS1331 likes this.
    06-29-14 05:18 PM
  25. crazigee's Avatar
    It amuses me to no end the way some people on CB will argue with themselves.

    Not pointing any fingers. General statement.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    CDM76 likes this.
    06-29-14 05:29 PM
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