09-13-15 03:12 PM
54 123
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  1. Mamaluka's Avatar
    Hahh! Yeah, well, you sir, are not alone. I'm still amazed that a huge, first on the scene, hardware giant like RIM/BlackBerry fumbled the ball so brutally.
    At least use your hundreds of keyboard design patents and put out a keyboard layover for all touchscreen phones. Start somewhere, for crying out loud. It's like watching someone get a beating and not fight back. Very wtf'ish
    srzjumper likes this.
    04-28-15 02:50 PM
  2. The Big Picture's Avatar
    Apple is not really in the software business. If anything google, sap, ibm would be iot champions.

    However, BlackBerry is focusing on iot security which is a good niche.

    Posted via CB10
    04-29-15 07:39 AM
  3. BBd00d's Avatar
    I know in business we often ask ourselves what problem is this solving? And I ask that of a slider, what problem (or user group) is this solving (catering to)? With the amount of iPhone's and Android's sold, the answer is clear. There is no demand for such device
    I understand where you're coming from here, but the lack of demand is because of the lack of overall innovation. Let's look at the Samsung S4/S5/S6, as well as the HTC One M7/M8/M9, and Nexus 4/5/6...what problem were these OEMs solving when upgrading models year to year. All offered marginal bumps in specs, yet the phones did everything the same as their predecessors. There were no problems to solve as the market is now stagnant. People can do anything on a smartphone as they could on a desktop, laptop, or tablet. It's not only now about innovation, but also forward thinking, and rebuilding brand recognition in BlackBerry's case. They don't need a slider at all, they want a slider to stand out. Elite types always want things that not only work well, but stand out. They want things that show their position, their slightly elevated financial standing. Exclusive and different things like slider, or Porsche devices, as well as sports cars, large homes, exclusive memberships to golf resorts, etc. are things that they can show off and be proud of. BlackBerry is trying to build a reputation off of people like that, or aspire to be like that, because people want what they can't have, and therefore will build themselves a more elite crowd to get noticed. That's what started the downfall of BlackBerry. When the first regime (Mike and Jim) took BlackBerry from a business-like phone (which people wanted but couldn't have) to consumer market with lower models, what happened? They lost their sense of being special, being high end, because everyone who previously wanted but couldn't have one, now could. Now Chen and BlackBerry are looking to get their prestige back, by returning to what once was, prestigious higher end perception. The general public is so lost with what BlackBerry has become, that they don't know what to expect when they see all this new stuff coming out. I get so much attention from my passport out of sheer curiosity, that I believe just on that, people are starting to view BlackBerry slightly differently. Only time will tell at this point.

    Posted via CB10
    j21jam6 and Mamaluka like this.
    05-09-15 06:51 AM
  4. Marcin Dabrowsky's Avatar
    All I know is you take the latest iPhone (priced at $750) specs and package them into a new android device and it would be a mid tier device. Nowhere near flagship. IPhone has a perception of being top. People buy into perception more than reality or hard stats.

    Carpe Noctem
    05-12-15 10:16 PM
  5. lnichols's Avatar
    All I know is you take the latest iPhone (priced at $750) specs and package them into a new android device and it would be a mid tier device. Nowhere near flagship. IPhone has a perception of being top. People buy into perception more than reality or hard stats.

    Carpe Noctem
    And if you pack same specs in a BlackBerry device, with a slight RAM bump, and it would be super high end! BlackBerry is selling three year old hardware at $400+. At least Apple is offering improvements in new devices and not releasing a device with same internals as the launch devices 2+ years ago. People like to say Apple is low specs, but they clearly don't read up on the SOC technology that Apple is using and appreciate what they are doing. Samsung is now going the same route of custom SoC's instead of Qualcomm off the shelf stuff that is lagging behind.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    05-13-15 06:47 AM
  6. guygardner73's Avatar
    Fake pics or not, but the slider concept is silly. How long of a phone to you really need? I can't imagine every time, I need to type, I need to extend my device another 2 inches. Is the need for a slider really a lacking today? I know in business we often ask ourselves what problem is this solving? And I ask that of a slider, what problem (or user group) is this solving (catering to)? With the amount of iPhone's and Android's sold, the answer is clear. There is no demand for such device.

    If BlackBerry wants to introduce yet another sales flop (Yes, I'm looking at you passport) that is 'different' than the rest, then they will get what they ask for: another device that caters to only few diehard keyboard BlackBerry fanboys.
    How dare you?!?! The slider is going to be an awesome device and the passport is not a flop.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2576 O2 UK
    05-13-15 09:02 AM
  7. Mamaluka's Avatar
    I wish I knew for myself if the passport was a flop. Unfortunately, my 3rd world carrier, Verizon, passed on the passport.
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    05-13-15 10:54 AM
  8. BBd00d's Avatar
    All I know is you take the latest iPhone (priced at $750) specs and package them into a new android device and it would be a mid tier device. Nowhere near flagship. IPhone has a perception of being top. People buy into perception more than reality or hard stats.

    Carpe Noctem
    Agree with all of this...that's why BlackBerry needs to improve public perception

    Posted via CB10
    05-14-15 07:19 AM
  9. BBd00d's Avatar
    At least Apple is offering improvements in new devices and not releasing a device with same internals as the launch devices 2+ years ago. People like to say Apple is low specs, but they clearly don't read up on the SOC technology that Apple is using and appreciate what they are doing
    Improvements? Hardly. I was at Telus a couple days ago to check out the Leap for my wife. While waiting to ask a question to the rep, I saw Apple's display and went over. Didn't realize that the iPhone 5C was still being sold, and at a no contract price of $480. $480!!!!!!!!!!! That's insanity. But wait, isn't the 5C simply an iPhone 5 hardware with polycarbonate shell? Wasn't the 5 released Sept 2012? Aside from that, isn't the Leap a rehash of the Z10 with some tweaks such as a few less sensors, but better screen and larger battery? Most of its hardware also from 2012? At a price of $350 in Canada? People complain about the Leap being overpriced but not the 5C? Interesting.

    So what you see here, is that BlackBerry isn't the only one releasing old hardware and commanding a premium for something that 'looks new'? If it does what their intended audience needs it to do, then I don't see anything wrong with it.

    The problem with society is that they've been taken by the upgrade cycle of the original PC. If you own anything for more than 6 months it's automatically outdated. Mobile phone industry is following the same upgrade cycle now, but we as a society need to stop craving new new new. If we did, that 'old hardware' would be regarded as slightly outdated but acceptable. But because society sees what android manufacturers are doing with their handsets, our BlackBerry handsets are regarded as inferior because it's no longer slightly outdated, but rather just really really old. It's too bad that people are so close-minded, because app gap aside, we really do have the best platform out there, and it runs efficient even on such 'really old and outdated hardware', which somehow seems to work well with it.

    But I am one who looks past flashy and new. My desktop is an 8 years old P4, my laptop is a 6 year old Acer from 2009, my tablet is an Asus TF300 from 2012. All work absolutely fine for what I need them for, so why upgrade?


    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by BBd00d; 05-14-15 at 07:40 AM.
    ChainPunch and srzjumper like this.
    05-14-15 07:29 AM
  10. deadcowboy's Avatar
    All I know is you take the latest iPhone (priced at $750) specs and package them into a new android device and it would be a mid tier device. Nowhere near flagship. IPhone has a perception of being top. People buy into perception more than reality or hard stats.

    Carpe Noctem
    Aren't apple's custom cpu/gpu superb?

    Posted via CB10
    05-24-15 12:45 AM
  11. Matty's Avatar
    Aren't apple's custom cpu/gpu superb?

    Posted via CB10
    While the man you quoted does have a point to some degree. Specs are not the "be all and end all" when it comes to speed and efficiency of a smartphone.

    Apple's custom CPU along with its OS mesh extremely well together and therefore don't need high end specs to out perform android counterparts with quad core processors.

    Specs are only important when a device is slow. Otherwise, why change? This is mostly why BlackBerry has stayed with a similar processor all this time. BlackBerry 10 doesn't need a Quad-core processor to run it.

    Unfortunately Android has so so much bloatware that they actually need quad core processors just to make the device usable.

    Posted via BlackBerry Q5 on 10.3.1.2576
    05-25-15 03:01 PM
  12. lnichols's Avatar
    Specs are only important when a device is slow. Otherwise, why change? This is mostly why BlackBerry has stayed with a similar processor all this time. BlackBerry 10 doesn't need a Quad-core processor to run it.
    The Z30 and Passport run Bb10 much better than the rest of the devices running the S4 Plus processor. The whole package is simply taxed too much I found when I used my Z10. Couldn't even charge the device quick enough when you were running GPS and Pandora at the same time and it ran horribly hot. Z30 running the the same will charge up with the same charger and run much cooler in comparison. The S4 Pro should have been the minimum processor on any device released after the Z30 or another quad core GPU SOC. I actually think they should have upgraded to Snapdragon 600. Newer processor are more efficient and more powerful than the 3 year old S4 Plus. A newer processor would have made the devices more efficient with the power they used.

    Posted via Z30
    05-25-15 09:07 PM
  13. deadcowboy's Avatar
    While the man you quoted does have a point to some degree. Specs are not the "be all and end all" when it comes to speed and efficiency of a smartphone.

    Apple's custom CPU along with its OS mesh extremely well together and therefore don't need high end specs to out perform android counterparts with quad core processors.

    Specs are only important when a device is slow. Otherwise, why change? This is mostly why BlackBerry has stayed with a similar processor all this time. BlackBerry 10 doesn't need a Quad-core processor to run it.

    Unfortunately Android has so so much bloatware that they actually need quad core processors just to make the device usable.

    Posted via BlackBerry Q5 on 10.3.1.2576
    How is it that Apple's iPhone 6 geekbench scores are so high compared to the BlackBerry Passport, then?

    Genuinely curious. Benchmark-wise, the Apple processors, despite being dual-core, are pretty top-of-the-line, right?

    http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekb...aseline=828518

    Posted via CB10
    05-25-15 09:28 PM
  14. LazyEvul's Avatar
    While the man you quoted does have a point to some degree. Specs are not the "be all and end all" when it comes to speed and efficiency of a smartphone.

    Apple's custom CPU along with its OS mesh extremely well together and therefore don't need high end specs to out perform android counterparts with quad core processors.

    Specs are only important when a device is slow. Otherwise, why change? This is mostly why BlackBerry has stayed with a similar processor all this time. BlackBerry 10 doesn't need a Quad-core processor to run it.

    Unfortunately Android has so so much bloatware that they actually need quad core processors just to make the device usable.

    Posted via BlackBerry Q5 on 10.3.1.2576
    You seem to be misunderstanding specs. "1.4GHz dual-core" does not always result in a slower processor than "2.3GHz quad-core." CPUs are a lot more complex than that, and a lot of pretty impressive engineering goes into Apple's custom CPUs - they're high-end CPUs in their own right. And as the post above points out, the benchmarks support that.

    As for the whole "BB10 is much more optimized than Android" thing, that doesn't seem to be grounded in fact - most Android devices with similar specs produce similar benchmark results. Here's a few scores I pulled from Geekbench Browser, using the lowest-scoring Android device with the same CPU for comparison.

    BlackBerry Z30 - 624 single-core | 1151 multi-core
    Xiaomi MI-2a - 650 single-core | 1183 multi-core

    BlackBerry Q10 - 457 single-core | 864 multi-core
    Samsung Galaxy S3 - 466 single-core | 852 multi-core

    BlackBerry Z10 (STL100-1) - 371 single-core | 697 multi-core
    Barnes & Noble Nook HD+ - 439 single-core | 807 multi-core

    BlackBerry Passport - 769 single-core | 2372 multi-core
    Sony Xperia Z2 (runs 115 MHz faster than the Passport) - 914 single-core | 2593 multi-core

    Despite these being Android's lowest scores for each CPU, it actually does ever-so slightly better every time. But when you account for fluctuations in scores (and the minor speed advantage of the Xperia S2), they seem to be identical in terms of optimization. The only exception is the STL100-1, which does notably worse than the Android tablet with an identical CPU. There's certainly no evidence here to suggest BB10 has better optimization. You can compare for yourself here:

    BlackBerry Benchmarks - Geekbench Browser
    Android Benchmarks - Geekbench Browser
    Maxxxpower and Fidel Mercado like this.
    05-25-15 10:14 PM
  15. mad_mdx's Avatar
    You seem to be misunderstanding specs. "1.4GHz dual-core" does not always result in a slower processor than "2.3GHz quad-core." CPUs are a lot more complex than that, and a lot of pretty impressive engineering goes into Apple's custom CPUs - they're high-end CPUs in their own right. And as the post above points out, the benchmarks support that.

    As for the whole "BB10 is much more optimized than Android" thing, that doesn't seem to be grounded in fact - most Android devices with similar specs produce similar benchmark results. Here's a few scores I pulled from Geekbench Browser, using the lowest-scoring Android device with the same CPU for comparison.

    BlackBerry Z30 - 624 single-core | 1151 multi-core
    Xiaomi MI-2a - 650 single-core | 1183 multi-core

    BlackBerry Q10 - 457 single-core | 864 multi-core
    Samsung Galaxy S3 - 466 single-core | 852 multi-core

    BlackBerry Z10 (STL100-1) - 371 single-core | 697 multi-core
    Barnes & Noble Nook HD+ - 439 single-core | 807 multi-core

    BlackBerry Passport - 769 single-core | 2372 multi-core
    Sony Xperia Z2 (runs 115 MHz faster than the Passport) - 914 single-core | 2593 multi-core

    Despite these being Android's lowest scores for each CPU, it actually does ever-so slightly better every time. But when you account for fluctuations in scores (and the minor speed advantage of the Xperia S2), they seem to be identical in terms of optimization. The only exception is the STL100-1, which does notably worse than the Android tablet with an identical CPU. There's certainly no evidence here to suggest BB10 has better optimization. You can compare for yourself here:

    BlackBerry Benchmarks - Geekbench Browser
    Android Benchmarks - Geekbench Browser
    What does this have to do with BlackBerry 10?
    BlackBerry 10 is optimized to run on this low end hardware. A low spec BlackBerry 10 runs much better than a low spec android as far as the operating system goes. That's the end of that really. Otherwise when running the same apps there is obviously no advantage but that's not the point. The hub is fast and moving around the os is also lightning fast. That's what 'BlackBerry is more optimized' means
    05-25-15 11:42 PM
  16. LazyEvul's Avatar
    What does this have to do with BlackBerry 10?
    BlackBerry 10 is optimized to run on this low end hardware. A low spec BlackBerry 10 runs much better than a low spec android as far as the operating system goes. That's the end of that really. Otherwise when running the same apps there is obviously no advantage but that's not the point. The hub is fast and moving around the os is also lightning fast. That's what 'BlackBerry is more optimized' means
    What do you mean what does this have to do with BlackBerry 10? All those benchmarks are for BB10, and they are roughly in line with Android benchmarks packing the exact same hardware. They seem to suggest very little difference in optimization. What the OS feels like is a different story, and can get quite subjective.
    05-25-15 11:46 PM
  17. deadcowboy's Avatar
    What do you mean what does this have to do with BlackBerry 10? All those benchmarks are for BB10, and they are roughly in line with Android benchmarks packing the exact same hardware. They seem to suggest very little difference in optimization. What the OS feels like is a different story, and can get quite subjective.
    But does that have anything to do with the OS? Geekbench is benching the processors. Seems that they're performing similarly because the processors and benchmark tasks are the same.

    That said, I think BB10 is more power hungry than people think. The OS absolutely requires 2gb of ram (basically). And the faster processor makes a huge difference in the Passport. It's still well optimized, it's just a more modern and powerful OS than Android imo.

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-15 12:47 AM
  18. mhg0157's Avatar
    "BlackBerry lost the consumer slab war. Clearly. The reasons don't matter now. This is where we are."

    Exactly. So much consternation around here could be alleviated here by just accepting that.

    Posted via CB10
    05-26-15 02:07 AM
  19. LazyEvul's Avatar
    But does that have anything to do with the OS? Geekbench is benching the processors. Seems that they're performing similarly because the processors and benchmark tasks are the same.

    That said, I think BB10 is more power hungry than people think. The OS absolutely requires 2gb of ram (basically). And the faster processor makes a huge difference in the Passport. It's still well optimized, it's just a more modern and powerful OS than Android imo.

    Posted via CB10
    Geekbench is a processor-focused benchmark, yes, but the kind of OS optimization issues that were suggested by the post I quoted (i.e. Android needing a quad-core CPU to run well) would have shown up in the benchmark - if the OS is bogging it down in regular tasks, it should bog down a benchmark too.

    With the exception of high RAM usage (which is inherent to its design, thanks to the Hub and way active frames work), BB10's optimization is not necessarily bad though - I just don't think Android's optimization is any worse.
    05-26-15 01:40 PM
  20. sanjayjp99's Avatar
    I understand where you're coming from here, but the lack of demand is because of the lack of overall innovation. Let's look at the Samsung S4/S5/S6, as well as the HTC One M7/M8/M9, and Nexus 4/5/6...what problem were these OEMs solving when upgrading models year to year. All offered marginal bumps in specs, yet the phones did everything the same as their predecessors. There were no problems to solve as the market is now stagnant. People can do anything on a smartphone as they could on a desktop, laptop, or tablet. It's not only now about innovation, but also forward thinking, and rebuilding brand recognition in BlackBerry's case. They don't need a slider at all, they want a slider to stand out. Elite types always want things that not only work well, but stand out. They want things that show their position, their slightly elevated financial standing. Exclusive and different things like slider, or Porsche devices, as well as sports cars, large homes, exclusive memberships to golf resorts, etc. are things that they can show off and be proud of. BlackBerry is trying to build a reputation off of people like that, or aspire to be like that, because people want what they can't have, and therefore will build themselves a more elite crowd to get noticed. That's what started the downfall of BlackBerry. When the first regime (Mike and Jim) took BlackBerry from a business-like phone (which people wanted but couldn't have) to consumer market with lower models, what happened? They lost their sense of being special, being high end, because everyone who previously wanted but couldn't have one, now could. Now Chen and BlackBerry are looking to get their prestige back, by returning to what once was, prestigious higher end perception. The general public is so lost with what BlackBerry has become, that they don't know what to expect when they see all this new stuff coming out. I get so much attention from my passport out of sheer curiosity, that I believe just on that, people are starting to view BlackBerry slightly differently. Only time will tell at this point.

    Posted via CB10
    But iSheep buying same phone every year, they don't like to standout. how you justifies that.
    05-27-15 08:46 PM
  21. StutterStep's Avatar
    A low spec BlackBerry 10 runs much better than a low spec android as far as the operating system goes.
    Not really. My Moto X with a S4 runs just as smooth as my Z10. This is a myth.
    LazyEvul likes this.
    05-29-15 10:56 PM
  22. DamianWarS's Avatar
    Not really. My Moto X with a S4 runs just as smooth as my Z10. This is a myth.
    Rather than saying "my apples are better than yours" I think it's good enough to just say "my apples are really good." and leave out the comparisons. The better point here is that BB10 runs smooth even while using a low spec device rather than saying it runs smoother than all the others.

    Posted via CB10
    05-30-15 01:13 PM
  23. jonyip's Avatar
    Personally, I think the slider is too long to be comfortable. I would have preferred a clampshell phone like the Nokia Communicator series. Those were truly laptop replacements in their days.

    Posted via CB10
    06-07-15 06:50 PM
  24. dguy123's Avatar
    Geekbench is a processor-focused benchmark, yes, but the kind of OS optimization issues that were suggested by the post I quoted (i.e. Android needing a quad-core CPU to run well) would have shown up in the benchmark - if the OS is bogging it down in regular tasks, it should bog down a benchmark too.

    With the exception of high RAM usage (which is inherent to its design, thanks to the Hub and way active frames work), BB10's optimization is not necessarily bad though - I just don't think Android's optimization is any worse.
    Not necessarily true. If you have two OS's whose main task is sorting things... email, process lists, etc, etc...
    And one OS uses bubble sort and the other quick sort the fact that both perform the same in a benchmark would not translate into the user experience.

    Benchmarks don't predict performance of more complex tasks that depend on the architecture of a system.

    Just sayin.


    Posted via CB10
    06-07-15 07:11 PM
  25. Giantfriend's Avatar
    I'd like a successor to the Q10, something around the same physical size with updated hardware and a bit more stylish. The Classic is a bit clunky for my liking and the slider I don't find a real need for. I like my Q10. It's solid and does everything I need and more. I hope to still be using it for at least another year if not two, but I would like to hear about something new on the horizon.
    ayngling likes this.
    06-08-15 11:15 AM
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