11-16-18 10:28 AM
85 1234
tools
  1. the_boon's Avatar
    I like this device. I made one small change to the render. I made the screen smaller. A device the size of a K1 is too large.

    Attachment 435875
    Proof that it's possible to have a smaller more pocketable form factor and still have an Android compliant display ratio.
    phuoc and DWonder like this.
    04-28-18 06:27 PM
  2. ta_si's Avatar
    I actually like this size. I find most phones on the market now far too large, however I seem to be one of the few people who actually would like a smaller phone!

    Posted via CB10
    05-01-18 09:03 AM
  3. the_boon's Avatar
    I actually like this size. I find most phones on the market now far too large, however I seem to be one of the few people who actually would like a smaller phone!

    Posted via CB10
    And all those who bought the iPhone SE
    05-01-18 09:22 AM
  4. ta_si's Avatar
    yeah, well, I ment in the general market. The trend is towards ever larger phones, and it seems to be well recieved

    Posted via CB10
    05-01-18 09:29 AM
  5. conite's Avatar
    Proof that it's possible to have a smaller more pocketable form factor and still have an Android compliant display ratio.
    I don't think anyone questions whether it's physically possible to do. It's just not economically viable, and is a barely workable Android experience.
    05-01-18 10:03 AM
  6. DWonder's Avatar
    I don't think anyone questions whether it's physically possible to do. It's just not economically viable, and is a barely workable Android experience.
    Makes sense. In ur opinion, not preference, couldn't the trackpad take the place of the touch capacitive keyboard. If they put the touch kb technology into let's say the "H" key, isn't it the same basically? We would be able to scroll, edit, etc, from just the one key, not the whole keyboard.
    05-01-18 11:20 AM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Makes sense. In ur opinion, not preference, couldn't the trackpad take the place of the touch capacitive keyboard. If they put the touch kb technology into let's say the "H" key, isn't it the same basically? We would be able to scroll, edit, etc, from just the one key, not the whole keyboard.
    I suppose so. But it would likely still behave like the keyboard - as in just straight up-down, left-right. That might make the experience rather frustrating.
    05-01-18 11:24 AM
  8. Roveer's Avatar
    I don't think anyone questions whether it's physically possible to do. It's just not economically viable, and is a barely workable Android experience.
    I disagree, well about the physical part and the workable Android experience.

    Having used Android for the past 6 months I've become acutely aware of it's shortcomings as a practical device in the physical world. Screens are too large, non-physical buttons are always causing trouble. Misplaced screen buttons requiring two handed operation. It's all really just a huge mess. I say that because us long time BB users have had phones with exceptional design for true usability. We know what superior design feels like and how it works. That's why you keep seeing the tool belt come back over and over in our renders.

    Look. I'm all for moving forward, and I fully embrace the Android ecosystem and it's apps. Those things are really great. But the slab form factor is a beast and is totally inadequate for true productivity. Productivity the way we long time BB users had grown accustomed. The slab is here to stay. It fits a demographic, the largest demographic. I actually think all those slab people have settled, but they are not my problem. My problem is Android on a slab is like nails on a chalkboard. It's become a huge disappointment. My KeyONE is a good phone. For me it's slow and that's annoying, but the biggest shortcoming is navigating Android and NOT having any of the old style navigation tools. Physical buttons & track pad. No the keyboard scrolling doesn't cut it. To me it's a glitchy gimmick

    Maybe it doesn't have to be the tool belt of old, maybe that can be re-imagined, but I certainly think that tool belt could be integrated into Android to return certain functionality for navigation. I've often seen criticism of the return of the tool belt saying "Android was not designed around cursor operation". That's pretty obvious. That's not what the tool belt was all about (although it did function in that capacity). It's about navigation. Android still is about moving in and out of apps and multi-level menu's in most applications. Android is about scrolling and selecting. Those are the elements that the tool belt should be implemented for. This all gets back to usability. Make it smaller, make it capable of one handed operation, make it easier to navigate so I don't have to grip it with 2 hands just to use then PECK, Peck, peck, SWIPE, Swipe just to move around. Nearly half of my screen based button presses are missed, and I know I'm not alone. Just watch ANY Android or iPhone review on You Tube and you see them pecking and swiping over and over. This is not what we want. We want evolution of what worked. Older BB phones worked, they were the right size and they were very "usable".

    For those who want ginormous screens. Your all set. You have all the slabs you could ever want. I am perfectly fine with those who want that. I don't, and I know lots of people don't. For us it's just too darn big. We want (believe it or not), the smallest possible screen that works with Android so we have the smallest possible phone. Yes, small. Some still want to put their phone in their pocket. I still use a belt clip, but I sure would like something smaller. Smaller also allows for easier navigation and one handed operation. These are the foundations of true usability.

    Back when I started using my 9810 slider, after 6 months I was perfectly happy with the phone. There were no pesky issues that bothered me. It became another tool for getting my work done. Never thought about it, just charged it every night and used it. Something was right, I used that phone up to November 2017. 10 Years!!! I miss its simplicity and ergonomics. It was very easy to be productive on that device.

    Since using my KeyOne for 6 months I have a list a mile long of pesky, nagging no way your gonna fix it items that really bum me out and make the whole smartphone experience a real drag. That's 180 degree difference from my previous device. Something is very wrong.

    These are just my impressions. One worked, one didn't.

    I'm so vocal because I truly believe there is a way to design a device that would bring back that 9810 experience. (not the physical experience), but the "no pesky issues, just use it and like it" experience in a 2018 Android design.

    The reduced size render that I made on page 2 (possibly even a little smaller) seems like it would be a good start. I am also not at all opposed to a slider but definitely NOT a Priv2. Maybe a re-imagined 9810 with a killer keyboard and tool belt.

    I don't begrudge those who love the slab form factor their happiness. They use the device very different that I do. But I don't really like it when those folks tell us productivity/usability advocates that we are wrong. I am a firm believer that there's room for both to exist.

    My understanding is that TCL is just the company that would consider such a thing and is willing to produce devices in limited quantities. Such a redesigned devices focusing on usability would potentially reinvigorate this nearly forgotten space. I know there are a lot of people out there who are not happy with their Android experience but accept it because it's the only game in town. I believe we can do better. A lot better.

    C'mon BB Mobile. Time for you to bring some of us loyalists in to have a real and honest discussion about a truly usable device. I've offered before and I'll offer again. I'm sure there are another half dozen others who would be more than happy to participate.

    Bla1ze, CBK, you guys should help on this one too.

    Roveer
    Last edited by Roveer; 05-01-18 at 11:57 AM.
    05-01-18 11:31 AM
  9. DWonder's Avatar
    I suppose so. But it would likely still behave like the keyboard - as in just straight up-down, left-right. That might make the experience rather frustrating.
    How so? That's how the trackpad moved...left, right, up, down...if I understood u right. Elaborate?

    I mean, they could still even have the double tap activate the editing. I would take that. Some could make the argument that it would be cheaper for the one key vs the whole keyboard. And this is assuming the kb isn't touch capacitive at all...only the 1 designated key.
    05-01-18 11:33 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    How so? That's how the trackpad moved...left, right, up, down...if I understood u right. Elaborate?

    I mean, they could still even have the double tap activate the editing. I would take that. Some could make the argument that it would be cheaper for the one key vs the whole keyboard. And this is assuming the kb isn't touch capacitive at all...only the 1 designated key.
    I mean you're not able to move a cursor around off axis (no diagonals, for example).
    05-01-18 12:10 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    I disagree, well about the physical part and the workable Android experience.

    Having used Android for the past 6 months I've become acutely aware of it's shortcomings as a practical device in the physical world. Screens are too large, non-physical buttons are always causing trouble. Misplaced screen buttons requiring two handed operation. It's all really just a huge mess. I say that because us long time BB users have had phones with exceptional design for true usability. We know what superior design feels like and how it works. That's why you keep seeing the tool belt come back over and over in our renders.

    Look. I'm all for moving forward, and I fully embrace the Android ecosystem and it's apps. Those things are really great. But the slab form factor is a beast and is totally inadequate for true productivity. Productivity the way we long time BB users had grown accustomed. The slab is here to stay. It fits a demographic, the largest demographic. I actually think all those slab people have settled, but they are not my problem. My problem is Android on a slab is like nails on a chalkboard. It's become a huge disappointment. My KeyONE is a good phone. For me it's slow and that's annoying, but the biggest shortcoming is navigating Android and NOT having any of the old style navigation tools. Physical buttons & track pad. No the keyboard scrolling doesn't cut it. To me it's a glitchy gimmick

    Maybe it doesn't have to be the tool belt of old, maybe that can be re-imagined, but I certainly think that tool belt could be integrated into Android to return certain functionality for navigation. I've often seen criticism of the return of the tool belt saying "Android was not designed around cursor operation". That's pretty obvious. That's not what the tool belt was all about (although it did function in that capacity). It's about navigation. Android still is about moving in and out of apps and multi-level menu's in most applications. Android is about scrolling and selecting. Those are the elements that the tool belt should be implemented for. This all gets back to usability. Make it smaller, make it capable of one handed operation, make it easier to navigate so I don't have to grip it with 2 hands just to use then PECK, Peck, peck, SWIPE, Swipe just to move around. Nearly half of my screen based button presses are missed, and I know I'm not alone. Just watch ANY Android or iPhone review on You Tube and you see them pecking and swiping over and over. This is not what we want. We want evolution of what worked. Older BB phones worked, they were the right size and they were very "usable".

    For those who want ginormous screens. Your all set. You have all the slabs you could ever want. I am perfectly fine with those who want that. I don't, and I know lots of people don't. For us it's just too darn big. We want (believe it or not), the smallest possible screen that works with Android so we have the smallest possible phone. Yes, small. Some still want to put their phone in their pocket. I still use a belt clip, but I sure would like something smaller. Smaller also allows for easier navigation and one handed operation. These are the foundations of true usability.

    Back when I started using my 9810 slider, after 6 months I was perfectly happy with the phone. There were no pesky issues that bothered me. It became another tool for getting my work done. Never thought about it, just charged it every night and used it. Something was right, I used that phone up to November 2017. 10 Years!!! I miss its simplicity and ergonomics. It was very easy to be productive on that device.

    Since using my KeyOne for 6 months I have a list a mile long of pesky, nagging no way your gonna fix it items that really bum me out and make the whole smartphone experience a real drag. That's 180 degree difference from my previous device. Something is very wrong.

    These are just my impressions. One worked, one didn't.

    I'm so vocal because I truly believe there is a way to design a device that would bring back that 9810 experience. (not the physical experience), but the "no pesky issues, just use it and like it" experience in a 2018 Android design.

    The reduced size render that I made on page 2 (possibly even a little smaller) seems like it would be a good start. I am also not at all opposed to a slider but definitely NOT a Priv2. Maybe a re-imagined 9810 with a killer keyboard and tool belt.

    I don't begrudge those who love the slab form factor their happiness. They use the device very different that I do. But I don't really like it when those folks tell us productivity/usability advocates that we are wrong. I am a firm believer that there's room for both to exist.

    My understanding is that TCL is just the company that would consider such a thing and is willing to produce devices in limited quantities. Such a redesigned devices focusing on usability would potentially reinvigorate this nearly forgotten space. I know there are a lot of people out there who are not happy with their Android experience but accept it because it's the only game in town. I believe we can do better. A lot better.

    C'mon BB Mobile. Time for you to bring some of us loyalists in to have a real and honest discussion about a truly usable device. I've offered before and I'll offer again. I'm sure there are another half dozen others who would be more than happy to participate.

    Bla1ze, CBK, you guys should help on this one too.

    Roveer
    Just skimmed this novel, but the fact is that the entire Android ecosystem is built around a certain form factor and screen size/ratio. You're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

    Better to adjust your habits rather than trying to change the entire firmament.
    05-01-18 12:13 PM
  12. Roveer's Avatar
    Just skimmed this novel, but the fact is that the entire Android ecosystem is built around a certain form factor and screen size/ratio. You're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
    You bet I am... That's what some of us do. I build ultra custom homes and we do this all day long. We don't follow what is "normal" we blaze our own path. Truly unique and exceptional is the way to go. We've already got "plain and boring".

    Better to adjust your habits rather than trying to change the entire firmament.
    Simply put, Uh, NO...
    05-01-18 12:20 PM
  13. conite's Avatar
    You bet I am... That's what some of us do. I build ultra custom homes and we do this all day long. We don't follow what is "normal" we blaze our own path. Truly unique and exceptional is the way to go. We've already got "plain and boring".



    Simply put, Uh, NO...
    Awesome.

    But that's where the notion of economic viability comes into play.

    BBMo is already dealing with an ultra-niche product. It would be crazy to develop and build, and re-engineer Android, for an ultra-ultra-niche product.
    05-01-18 12:25 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    You bet I am... That's what some of us do. I build ultra custom homes and we do this all day long. We don't follow what is "normal" we blaze our own path. Truly unique and exceptional is the way to go. We've already got "plain and boring".



    Simply put, Uh, NO...
    Since you understand economic viability and customization, you realize the economies of scale for basic components must fit a minimum level of quantity to manufacture.

    Radio Shack went down already. Build some of these smaller devices in your garage and list on CrackBerry for sale.

    Better yet, place a minimum quantity order with TCL. You could have Amazon handle the logistics.
    05-01-18 01:05 PM
  15. the_boon's Avatar
    While I do agree with Roveer's post that it would be nice to have smaller more manageable form factors to bring a more enjoyable experience, TCL has to first and foremost make this profitable. They need to establish credibility and carrier/distributor relationships by being consistent at least for their main product line, let's call it the "KEY" line. Once they find that they're slowly getting back in the game for real they can start experimenting with sliders, compacts etc...

    I think we're very very lucky for this TCL/BB partnership and very nearly avoided the death of the PKB on smartphones.
    DWonder, keypad and bb9900user2018 like this.
    05-01-18 01:10 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    While I do agree with Roveer's post that it would be nice to have smaller more manageable form factors to bring a more enjoyable experience, TCL has to first and foremost make this profitable. They need to establish credibility and carrier/distributor relationships by being consistent at least for their main product line, let's call it the "KEY" line. Once they find that they're slowly getting back in the game for real they can start experimenting with sliders, compacts etc...

    I think we're very very lucky for this TCL/BB partnership and very nearly avoided the death of the PKB on smartphones.
    But you inadvertently presented why the super-niche form-factor will never come. Since Blackberry mobile will essentially be the only physical keyboard game in town, there's no reason for them to build more than a couple of device models that appeal to a wider range of people. The folks who want other, more obscure, types of form factors don't have an alternative anyway.
    Last edited by conite; 05-01-18 at 02:28 PM.
    05-01-18 02:10 PM
  17. Roveer's Avatar
    I concede that TLC may deem all this small form factor stuff as non-viable, but I have to voice my opinion. While I appreciate all the contributions, listing all the reasons why it won't happen does not really contribute in a positive way to this post getting some recognition and possible consideration. But if you must.

    Roveer
    05-01-18 08:21 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    I concede that TLC may deem all this small form factor stuff as non-viable, but I have to voice my opinion. While I appreciate all the contributions, listing all the reasons why it won't happen does not really contribute in a positive way to this post getting some recognition and possible consideration. But if you must.

    Roveer
    Is the point of this thread to have a frank discussion, or is it to provide a safe space for proponents of the idea? Or do you think that any negative energy here may actually dissuade TCL from running with the idea?
    05-01-18 08:45 PM
  19. portplayer's Avatar
    In my Blankman voice: "I'm in love". That is one gorgeous lookin phone. If the toolbelt (mainly trackpad ) worked properly on Android I would easily pay $1000 for this phone. I hope BlackBerry Mobile sees this and makes it :-)
    $1000 for a smartphone. Take heed BBMo. He's not the only one.
    DWonder likes this.
    05-01-18 11:54 PM
  20. portplayer's Avatar
    There most definitely is a use for the trackpad and the whole tool belt.
    Just a personal choice and how people use it.
    I'd like to be able to pick up and end calls without having to look at my phone.
    I'd love having the precision and one handed comfort of the trackpad.
    Not to mention text editing with a trackpad is unparalleled.
    I am most definitely hoping BBM bring back the trackpad someday.

    ClassicSQC100-1/10.3.3.2163
    Shout the text editing with a trackpad. It has not and will never be the same without it. 😣
    DWonder likes this.
    05-01-18 11:56 PM
  21. Roveer's Avatar
    Is the point of this thread to have a frank discussion, or is it to provide a safe space for proponents of the idea? Or do you think that any negative energy here may actually dissuade TCL from running with the idea?
    Discussion is good, but the amount of NO can at times be detracting. I understand and appreciate your point of view. In the light of your response about safe spaces (which I don't believe in), you are fully in your right to bring these points into the discussion. I was wrong for saying they do not belong here. Moving forward.

    Roveer
    05-02-18 08:49 AM
  22. keypad's Avatar
    Bring back the Toolbelt with Trackpad support. That is the true DNA of a BlackBerry handset.
    phuoc and DWonder like this.
    05-17-18 05:01 PM
  23. ezubeBB2013's Avatar
    Will we ever see something like this? I really miss the toolbelt...

    Attachment 435557
    I hope not! Too tall and skinny.

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport
    06-17-18 11:10 AM
  24. rajashekar sanga's Avatar
    Will we ever see something like this? I really miss the toolbelt...

    Attachment 435557
    This should be launched with 4:3 aspect ratio instead of 3:2 , so that the height of the device could be lesser and handy.
    08-02-18 01:39 PM
  25. DWonder's Avatar
    Next year or the year after would be perfect to bring out this phone. Since the 3 Android button will pretty much be on screen, they could make use of the black bar and add wut us BB faithfuls want and need...the toolbelt. And honestly software wise it wouldn't be hard to do. We wouldn't even really need the BB or back button...just the call, end and the beloved TRACKPAD. How much could they possibly have to change to the software? Put the touch keyboard software into the single trackpad, which will work the same way. Then Call and End, pretty self explanatory and simple.

    The question is do they want to and would it be worth it? Time will tell. I just hope somebody @ BlackBerry and / or TCL opens their eyes. Plus the phone could be cheaper since the whole keyboard wouldn't need to be touch capacitive...or keep it the same price if they were able to make it water proof
    08-02-18 11:48 PM
85 1234

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