06-06-14 02:11 PM
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  1. Skeevecr's Avatar
    I think you're right. Even if they release a really high spec device that is on par, or superior, in specs to Android and iPhone devices they need to sell it at a lower price than the competition until they have regained market share.
    They are not solely about building market share at this point, all the cost cutting etc that they have been doing is to ensure that they are able to survive on a much lower volume of sales and can then grow steadily from that point, you will not see them release a high end model and dump it on the market for a low price.

    They will be looking to lower prices for hardware in general due to the foxconn deal, but that is still with the expectation that their hardware business can return to profitability and at the high end with this new qwerty device they will clearly trying to convert people by offering something that is distinct enough to be considered and not just looked at because it is cheap because there will always be another random android device that is cheaper than them along just after.
    tinochiko likes this.
    05-20-14 01:44 AM
  2. Skeevecr's Avatar
    The reason for thinking that is that we have heard and even seen quite a lot about the 2 phones that we know are coming in late summer or autumn this year, the Classic and Windermere, but nothing at all about the next high end touch phone other than the codename Manitoba.
    Actually, we don't even know if Manitoba is a high-end device, that could just as easily be the codename for the lte variant of the z3.


    If it's coming in early 2015 then we should start hearing about it after the two phones mentioned above have been released. I think BlackBerry may be playing a wait and see game before releasing another high end touch phone, using the sales performance of the Z3 and the two upcoming physical Qwerty phones to judge whether it's worth the R&D costs of a high end full touch if it just isn't going to sell well to Enterprise.

    I don't like that approach. In my Enterprise physical Qwerty is dead and buried, we are full touch BlackBerry all the way.
    The problem with your scenario is that you have jumped straight from your enterprise being full touch BB to them having sufficient demand for a high end full touch when the more likely scenario is that even a business that preferred full touch devices would probably tend to prefer a more cost-effective model such as the lte z3 over a higher end model.

    At this point their plans appear to be:

    Classic to appeal to bb7 users, cost-effective hardware so it also appeals to businesses.
    Z3 (LTE) to simplify their all touch offerings (could lead to both z10 and z30 being phased out) and appeal to businesses wanting to use bb10 more widely.
    Q30 to offer something new and higher end to existing bb10 users that is distinctive enough to draw more attention from non-bb10 users than simply pushing out a generic full touch with 1080p.
    05-20-14 01:54 AM
  3. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Not all Snapdragon 400s are faster than Snapdragon S4s, especially not the S4 Pros. The one in the Z3 is significantly slower than the one in the Z10. The Z3's processor is actually the same as the one in the Q5. Qualcomm merely rebranded the S4 processor.

    Snapdragon 400 is pretty confusing. We have really fast ones like in the Lumia 1320 and really slow ones like in the Q5. Overall, it was bad branding decision by Qualcomm.
    Actually, what you have here is that the z10, q10 and q5 are using the same processor as each other, it is simply lower clocked in the q5, the s4 pro in the z30 is both higher clocked and a newer gpu than those devices.

    You then come to the z3, it is a newer processor but a lower-end one so it actually ends up in the odd position of having a slightly slower cpu than z10, q10 and q5, but the gpu in it is faster than in those other devices.

    There is no real problem with the actual snapdragon 400 etc branding, the issue comes from people trying to shoe-horn those models that already exist into that same hierachy.

    Incidentally, the z3 and the lumia 1320 both have the same chipset, it is simply a higher clocked version in the lumia, so there is no lack of clarity in the branding.
    05-20-14 02:08 AM
  4. RyanGermann's Avatar
    If not performance then what? Please don't say marketing.
    Ok, I won't.

    Posted via CB10
    05-20-14 06:05 PM
  5. crazigee's Avatar
    Ok, I won't.

    Posted via CB10
    So, what then?

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    05-20-14 07:56 PM
  6. RyanGermann's Avatar
    So, what then?

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Let's start with you telling us what Chen should do in priority sequence cross referenced against what his strategy is known to be highlighting the things he's not on record as doing that you think he should be doing.

    This topic is about one of those things: some think a high end touch is an urgent priority, I agree with Chen that a high end touch does nothing or very little to solve BlackBerry's "bankruptcy perception" problem, which is at the root of all of BB's problems right now (and why CB mgmt's lack of dagger throwing at the likes of BGR is a huge betrayal to CB nation... They shouldn't be sharing war stories with Geller over drinks after WWDS; they should be publicly shaming Geller and addressing the slander publicly and directly with authority... but I digress and that ship has sailed anyway)

    Some disagree and think the HET is urgent, but don't say how it's development and release will solve the foundational problem that Chen has Identified and done a great job of addressing.

    What problem would a high end touch device release solve if people think "wow, but they're going to be bankrupt n 3 months" and how many BB10 full touch super phones do you think would sell in 6 months and at what price point and again how will that solve BB's immediate business problems?

    LG, HTC, and Sony are doing exactly what you suggest with the most popular platform and are still struggling: why would BB doing this not also have BB struggling, and what would BB failing to storm the market with an ambitious HET device do for the "...But BB will be bankrupt in 3 months" perception other than having the all-signs-point-to-low-sales-figures underwhelming market performance reinforcing the "they're toast" attitude?

    Chen must not repeat the mistake of trying to be like Android and iOS yet not as good as either in the ways that matter to consumers, and prioritizing a HET highly is exactly that mistake all over again.

    you want an awesome smooth-as-silk BB10 full touch, the Z30 is RIGHT THERE. if consumers aren't satisfied with the Z30, they aren't going to drop $800 for a Z50 until confidence in BB's stability is restored, and enterprise customers care less about raw specs than consumers.

    If we don't agree on why the reasons why urgent HET release is counterproductive, why debate other aspects of the strategy?
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 05-21-14 at 09:02 AM.
    05-21-14 08:45 AM
  7. crazigee's Avatar
    Let's start with you telling us what Chen should do in priority sequence cross referenced against what his strategy is known to be highlighting the things he's not on record as doing that you think he should be doing.

    This topic is about one of those things: some think a high end touch is an urgent priority, I agree with Chen that a high end touch does nothing or very little to solve BlackBerry's "bankruptcy perception" problem, which is at the root of all of BB's problems right now (and why CB mgmt's lack of dagger throwing at the likes of BGR is a huge betrayal to CB nation... They shouldn't be sharing war stories with Geller over drinks after WWDS they should be publicly shaming Geller and addressing the lies directly with authority... But I digress)

    Some disagree and think the HET is urgent, but don't say how it's development and release will solve the foundational problem that Chen has Identified and done a great job of addressing.

    What problem would a high end touch device release solve if people think "wow, but they're going to be bankrupt n 3 months" and how many BB10 full touch super phones do you think would sell in 6 months and at what price point and again how will that solve BB's immediate business problems?

    LG, HTC, and Sony are doing exactly what you suggest with the most popular platform and are still struggling: why would BB doing this not also have BB struggling, and what would BB failing to storm the market with an ambitious HET device do for the "...But BB will be bankrupt in 3 months" perception other than having the all-signs-point-to-low-sales-figures underwhelming market performance reinforcing the "they're toast" attitude?

    Chen must not repeat the mistake of trying to be like Android and iOS yet not as good as either in the ways that matter to consumers, and prioritizing a HET highly is exactly that mistake all over again.

    you want an awesome smooth-as-silk BB10 full touch, the Z30 is RIGHT THERE. if consumers aren't satisfied with the Z30, they aren't going to drop $800 for a Z50 until confidence in BB's stability is restored, and enterprise customers care less about raw specs than consumers.

    If we don't agree on why the reasons why urgent HET release is counterproductive, why debate other aspects of the strategy?
    Sorry, after the personal attacks you made in the other thread, toward both me and others, I won't be having any sort of discussion with you.

    There is no reason why people can't have a passionate discussion defending their views without it becoming personal.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Last edited by crazigee; 05-21-14 at 08:47 PM.
    Smitty13 likes this.
    05-21-14 09:03 AM
  8. haringfish's Avatar
    1080p.

    I hope people realize that higher resolution chews up advances in the other specs, like cpu, gpu, mah. Or if they dont realize it, I hope they gradually learn. I also hope they learn that the bottle neck is not cpu, but ram and moreso internal storage speed - the slowest parts are the parts people should be speeding up.

    This is exactly why the z3 should be quite swift, and have a surprisingly long battery life. They didn't over pump the resolution, or cpu. And they beefed the battery.

    These gimmicky phone specs that these companies are producing and selling these days, it makes one want to eye roll. Im reminded of the goofy octocore. Octocore is useless. Theres no software written for it. Its not the bottleneck in multitasking at all.

    Resolution -You think you can see the difference between a 1080p five inch screen and a 800p-ish five inch screen? Is it an amazing difference? Is it worth the cost in system speed, or battery life to have that almost invisible added sharpness, while having the same sort of speed and battery life as last years model?

    Or are you buying a number that translates into very little in the real world?

    I guess I expect too much of smart phone consumers, as they tend to be anything but smart about how their devices mechanics, software, or what these numbers mean in practice. Look at the apps in the google play store. Or the average user.

    Someone needs to sell them some specs that really matter. Like internal storage speed, ram speed, battery life, wifi and call reception, actually useful rather than gimmicky OS and software features, better interface, better input, durability, portability. Sell them stuff that isn't technophile snake oil, but genuine day to day performance.

    Just look at the fact that all these phones don't even mention the speed of their internal storage read and write? Would you run your desktop OS and software from a usb flash drive? No, nobody in the first world would, they are all about the read write speeds of the drive. And the drive speed is primary to performance, followed only by ram amount, and ram speed..

    But with phones and tablets, no one cares, even though thats what is holding up all your installs, your boot time, your multitasking, browsing, everything, and no amount of RAM or CPU is going to fix that, because it still has to load from the disk.

    And adding more resolution only makes it worse, because there is more to load from that fairly slow disk.

    Does any companies selling these devices list their read write speeds? Do they even care?

    Alot of these nand flash drives are slower than anyone would buy for micro sd expansion, and you often get speed gains on android by shifting your apps from internal! Sometimes huge gains. That shows you that not only does no one care, because the consumers are so stupid they dont care, but they are putting slow *** nand flash in the internal storage. Like class 4 slow. This is no class 10, uhs-1 stuff, its probably slower than a usb flash drive, and nowhere near ssd.

    The whole "spec war" thing is actually really sad, because the companies aren't selling real performance, they are selling the idea of it to consumers who don't know any better. They are buying a gimmick.
    Why don't you try to inform people without calling them stupid. You could have written this very differently and still made your point. It's just like anything else people get sold on. Most don't know and don't care that much. They just want something that works with current resolution and specs. I can honestly tell a huge difference between the resolution of the z30 and the z10. I in fact went to purchase the z30 but the pixels were too distracting to me. It may not bother some, but it turned me off. Now if that same phone had a higher resolution I would have bought it then and there. So yes specs do matter to some.

    Posted via the almighty Z
    05-21-14 09:08 AM
  9. crazigee's Avatar
    Why don't you try to inform people without calling them stupid. You could have written this very differently and still made your point.
    +1

    There's absolutely no need to call people who don't agree with him is stupid and wrong.

    It's just like anything else people get sold on. Most don't know and don't care that much. They just want something that works with current resolution and specs.
    Absolutely. If BlackBerry want to compete and get the average user to buy then their phone has to have similar specs on paper compared to the one next to it. That is if they intend to sell it at the same price, which they have been.

    I can honestly tell a huge difference between the resolution of the z30 and the z10. I in fact went to purchase the z30 but the pixels were too distracting to me. It may not bother some, but it turned me off.
    So can I. I looked at the Z30 in the Bell store and the screen was noticeably pixilated.

    Now if that same phone had a higher resolution I would have bought it then and there. So yes specs do matter to some.
    I would have been happy for upgrade to the Z30. My contract has allowed for an upgrade since June of 2013. The pixilated screen was very annoying. Overall, I just didn't find the Z30 to be that much of an upgrade compared to the Z10.



    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    05-21-14 10:54 AM
  10. farmwersteve's Avatar
    I've had the z10. And upgraded to the z30

    I love the z30 compared to the z10

    The battery alone is worth the upgrade

    The screen size makes the keyboard slightly larger and much easier for me to type on

    I have not noticed the screen pixel difference at all, perhaps a side to side might be different, but since I only ever use one phone at a time, my eyes have adapted I suppose quite nicely to the z30 screen.

    Thank goodness I am a 'normal' human and I am able to adapt to such Small differences.

    It's a great solid feeling phone and would not go back

    If this Canadian z30 had wireless charging I would have the phone of my dreams and would not upgrade for many years.

    With the miracast, which I use all the time, the nfc and all the amazing speakers, it's a great phone

    Add wireless charging and I'm in heaven

    I might look at trying to get a Verizon z30 working on Bell mobility to get it

    The speakers are so amazing, I fool birds by playing bird calls on it in the back yard. The cardinals are flying above my head going crazy!


    So, yeah well worth the upgrade from z10 to z30






    Posted via CB10
    05-21-14 02:13 PM
  11. crazigee's Avatar
    I've had the z10. And upgraded to the z30

    I love the z30 compared to the z10

    The battery alone is worth the upgrade

    The screen size makes the keyboard slightly larger and much easier for me to type on

    I have not noticed the screen pixel difference at all, perhaps a side to side might be different, but since I only ever use one phone at a time, my eyes have adapted I suppose quite nicely to the z30 screen.

    Thank goodness I am a 'normal' human and I am able to adapt to such Small differences.

    It's a great solid feeling phone and would not go back

    If this Canadian z30 had wireless charging I would have the phone of my dreams and would not upgrade for many years.

    With the miracast, which I use all the time, the nfc and all the amazing speakers, it's a great phone

    Add wireless charging and I'm in heaven

    I might look at trying to get a Verizon z30 working on Bell mobility to get it

    The speakers are so amazing, I fool birds by playing bird calls on it in the back yard. The cardinals are flying above my head going crazy!


    So, yeah well worth the upgrade from z10 to z30






    Posted via CB10
    I'm glad you're enjoying the Z30. There's no doubt it is a good phone. I'd personally prefer to wait for the next flagship before upgrading, since upgrading will involve renewing my contract.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    05-21-14 08:50 PM
  12. RyanGermann's Avatar
    One thing I notice on the Z30 more so than the Z10, and it's strange... the refraction of pixels through screen smudges is more pronounced than on the Z10, especially white text on dark background. I don't know about the subpixel arrangement on the Z30 screen, and that might be the "reason" for this effect, but it really doesn't matter: wipe the screen on my sleeve and problem solved, but that totally minor detail about the screen is the only thing I've noticed in any way as a "negative" towards the Z30 relative to the Z10 and yep, it's inconsequential.

    Posted via CB10
    05-22-14 02:54 PM
  13. seascape's Avatar
    Let's face it Chen is fixated on physical keyboards and enterprise, he's trying to turn the clock back to 2005 and pretend nothings changed.
    Rather embarrassing really.
    A ridiculous comment, especially considering BlackBerry just launched the Z3 in Indonesia.
    05-28-14 03:52 PM
  14. crazigee's Avatar
    A ridiculous comment, especially considering BlackBerry just launched the Z3 in Indonesia.
    Not ridiculous at all. Chen has launched one low end touch in the developing market. In the developed world he doesn't have anything officially announced when it comes to touch devices. Chen has, however, announced two keyboard phones.

    Chen has also specifically said he is focusing on keyboard devices.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-02-14 10:46 PM
  15. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Not ridiculous at all. Chen has launched one low end touch in the developing market. In the developed world he doesn't have anything officially announced when it comes to touch devices. Chen has, however, announced two keyboard phones.
    They stated that there would be an lte-enabled version of the z3 for the RoW too, so you have classic and z3 lte for the lower end of the market and then Windermere at the higher end as BB recognise that they don't have the audience right now for a high-end touch device.
    06-06-14 02:11 PM
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