01-15-20 12:30 PM
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  1. app_Developer's Avatar
    I think a lot of people here CARE if we don't get anymore BlackBerry devices. The want comment was more of sarcasm. I love my BlackBerry PKB and want to keep using one for years to come.
    That’s totally fair. But it’s also true that the shareholders of BB care about their investment (and the retirement funds of many many ordinary people, in the case of institutions). If Chen made a serious move back into phones I think there would be a shareholder revolt.

    The TCL et al. deals were a low risk attempt to see if it would be possible to have BlackBerry phones in the market. If all 3 of those deals fail then I think the answer is it’s not possible. BB should be completely focused on Cylance and the auto business to maximize value. I can’t see the business justification for any new risk or new investment in phones.
    John Albert likes this.
    11-14-19 11:28 AM
  2. tnewton3's Avatar
    That’s totally fair. But it’s also true that the shareholders of BB care about their investment (and the retirement funds of many many ordinary people, in the case of institutions). If Chen made a serious move back into phones I think there would be a shareholder revolt.

    The TCL et al. deals were a low risk attempt to see if it would be possible to have BlackBerry phones in the market. If all 3 of those deals fail then I think the answer is it’s not possible. BB should be completely focused on Cylance and the auto business to maximize value. I can’t see the business justification for any new risk or new investment in phones.
    Agreed, and from what I've seen it looks as though Chen's top priority is company profitability which in turn is a good thing for shareholders.

    This mentality makes me think licensing/selling the PKB off to other manufacturers wouldn't be a pie in the sky thought any longer.
    11-14-19 11:31 AM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    Agreed, and from what I've seen it looks as though Chen's top priority is company profitability which in turn is a good thing for shareholders.

    This mentality makes me think licensing/selling the PKB off to other manufacturers wouldn't be a pie in the sky thought any longer.
    Yeah, I would think licensing the PKB design and patents would be even lower risk and lower fixed cost than licensing BBAndroid. That makes sense.
    tnewton3 and the_boon like this.
    11-14-19 11:34 AM
  4. the_boon's Avatar
    Yeah, I would think licensing the PKB design and patents would be even lower risk and lower fixed cost than licensing BBAndroid. That makes sense.
    Maybe TCL is kicking themselves for not having done that in the first place?

    Meaning the KEYone would have been called "TCL Mercury" running generic Android.
    The screen would still have fallen off but hey, the device may have been priced cheaper too lol.

    Same for the KEY2.

    Times are so hard for PKB/BB right now that it's not even a question of:

    "Will we have another BlackBerry handset to look forward to"

    but

    "Will we have any plastic/rubber whatsoever to type on, no matter from who, and no matter if the tech was licensed from Chen & Co or not"
    11-14-19 12:43 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    Maybe TCL is kicking themselves for not having done that in the first place?
    It wasn't up to them.

    And BlackBerry would have been stupid to go that route first.

    They've made more money already from the TCL than they'd get in a lifetime of keyboard-only licences.
    11-14-19 12:57 PM
  6. the_boon's Avatar
    They've made more money already from the TCL than they'd get in a lifetime of keyboard-only licences.
    How so?

    2-3 years of payments from TCL for the current agreement as opposed to possibly much more for just the keyboard patents that require almost zero effort/manpower from them?
    11-14-19 01:04 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    How so?

    2-3 years of payments from TCL for the current agreement as opposed to possibly much more for just the keyboard patents that require almost zero effort/manpower from them?
    Because they bundled everything including the proverbial kitchen sink creating a differential large enough we collectively named it the BBTax as I recall.
    11-14-19 01:07 PM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    How so?

    2-3 years of payments from TCL for the current agreement as opposed to possibly much more for just the keyboard patents that require almost zero effort/manpower from them?
    I doubt they will get more for the keyboard licenses.

    However, the costs will be less as well.
    11-14-19 02:00 PM
  9. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I'll let you know how my Titan performs if it ever arrives. Given your views on security, I'm sure you'd be more than willing to throw down $300 for an IP68 rated, pkb, malware spying machine!
    LOL. I wouldn't allow that thing into my building!

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    brookie229 likes this.
    11-14-19 02:16 PM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I wonder how many here would buy a TCL PKB phone, without BlackBerry security, HUB+ or even updates (TCL isn't a big Android One user). Not to mention much in the way of carrier support.

    While I'm sure there are some, I'm also sure that some also were more interested in the whole package and not just the PKB. With most KEY2 users set for a few years... I just don't see much of an opportunity based on KEY device sales, as you'd only be looking a part of those users looking to upgrade.
    PantherBlitz likes this.
    11-14-19 02:22 PM
  11. the_boon's Avatar
    I wonder how many here would buy a TCL PKB phone, without BlackBerry security, HUB+ or even updates (TCL isn't a big Android One user). Not to mention much in the way of carrier support.

    While I'm sure there are some, I'm also sure that some also were more interested in the whole package and not just the PKB. With most KEY2 users set for a few years... I just don't see much of an opportunity based on KEY device sales, as you'd only be looking a part of those users looking to upgrade.
    To me, it's undeniable that if the KEYone/2/LE were just the way they are but without the BB logo or BBAndroid, and were priced cheaper, they would have sold better.
    Maybe not "like hotcakes", but not the embarrassingly low sales volumes that they got.

    No bad brand name, better value for money considering the specs, etc
    11-14-19 04:52 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    To me, it's undeniable that if the KEYone/2/LE were just the way they are but without the BB logo or BBAndroid, and were priced cheaper, they would have sold better.
    Maybe not "like hotcakes", but not the embarrassingly low sales volumes that they got.

    No bad brand name, better value for money considering the specs, etc
    Without the BlackBerry Secure guarantee and the Hub, I'd have had absolutely no interest. I care 1000x more about the root of trust than the PKB, and 50x more about the Hub than the PKB.

    From the screen of my trusty Z10 using the exceptional BlackBerry VKB.
    PantherBlitz likes this.
    11-14-19 06:58 PM
  13. John Albert's Avatar
    I wonder how many here would buy a TCL PKB phone, without BlackBerry security, HUB+ or even updates (TCL isn't a big Android One user). Not to mention much in the way of carrier support.

    While I'm sure there are some, I'm also sure that some also were more interested in the whole package and not just the PKB. With most KEY2 users set for a few years... I just don't see much of an opportunity based on KEY device sales, as you'd only be looking a part of those users looking to upgrade.
    I will never buy TCL PKB device without BlackBerry software, services, or even the logo.
    I'm using the PKB because I love BlackBerry and not the opposite.
    phuoc and Crusader03 like this.
    11-14-19 09:12 PM
  14. anon(10647958)'s Avatar
    I will never buy TCL PKB device without BlackBerry software, services, or even the logo.
    I'm using the PKB because I love BlackBerry and not the opposite.
    You speak truth to power, indeed!

    Prior to CrackBerry...never would I have dreamt such seemingly innocuous musings might ensue in an avalanche of rebuttals from fellow "fans" of the brand.
    11-14-19 09:54 PM
  15. Crusader03's Avatar
    I will never buy TCL PKB device without BlackBerry software, services, or even the logo.
    I'm using the PKB because I love BlackBerry and not the opposite.
    Amen to that! Also, it seems BlackBerry is not listed as a separate brand, only TCL. Were they listed separately from TCL last year?
    11-14-19 10:01 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    I will never buy TCL PKB device without BlackBerry software, services, or even the logo.
    I'm using the PKB because I love BlackBerry and not the opposite.
    You speak truth to power, indeed!

    Prior to CrackBerry...never would I have dreamt such seemingly innocuous musings might ensue in an avalanche of rebuttals from fellow "fans" of the brand.
    I'll take BlackBerry keyboard IP any way I can get it.
    11-14-19 10:06 PM
  17. Munchkinguy's Avatar
    That’s totally fair. But it’s also true that the shareholders of BB care about their investment (and the retirement funds of many many ordinary people, in the case of institutions). If Chen made a serious move back into phones I think there would be a shareholder revolt.
    I bought BB shares in 2015, around when Chen became CEO. They have been on a downward trend ever since. The only time they seem to spike up is when a new BlackBerry phone is announced. The stock never pays a dividend, and has lost 42% since I first bought them.

    If there was going to be a revolt, you'd think it would have happened by now.
    John Albert likes this.
    11-15-19 01:21 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    I bought BB shares in 2015, around when Chen became CEO. They have been on a downward trend ever since. The only time they seem to spike up is when a new BlackBerry phone is announced. The stock never pays a dividend, and has lost 42% since I first bought them.

    If there was going to be a revolt, you'd think it would have happened by now.
    He became CEO in 2013. His first act was to announce a $4.4 billion quarterly loss.

    The fact that there is a stock value at all today was a one in a thousand.

    He was thus rewarded with a contract extension in 2018.
    11-15-19 06:37 AM
  19. anon(10647958)'s Avatar
    I'll take BlackBerry keyboard IP any way I can get it.
    That would be a shameful sellout indeed, and a rejection of almost everything BlackBerry has ever stood for in the mobile device business.
    11-15-19 07:55 AM
  20. conite's Avatar
    That would be a shameful sellout indeed, and a rejection of almost everything BlackBerry has ever stood for in the mobile device business.
    Well, it's not up to me.

    And a sellout by whom? BlackBerry Limited already left the handset business in 2016.
    11-15-19 09:03 AM
  21. Munchkinguy's Avatar
    He became CEO in 2013. His first act was to announce a $4.4 billion quarterly loss.

    The fact that there is a stock value at all today was a one in a thousand.

    He was thus rewarded with a contract extension in 2018.
    Oops my mistake on that late-night post. But 2015 was when BlackBerry stopped designing their own phones, so you would think things would pick up after that. They didn't.
    11-15-19 09:14 AM
  22. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Well, it's not up to me.

    And a sellout by whom? BlackBerry Limited already left the handset business in 2016.
    But I think my point is made....

    A IP only deal just for the PKB would attract only a fraction of the current fanbase - or BBMo customers. What advantage there would be in a partial savings of the BlackBerry tax, probable would not be enough to attract "new" users to the PKB design. Lower volume would push up the cost....
    PantherBlitz likes this.
    11-15-19 09:25 AM
  23. anon(10647958)'s Avatar
    Well, it's not up to me.

    And a sellout by whom? BlackBerry Limited already left the handset business in 2016.
    As you well know, the terms of BlackBerry Ltd's licensing agreement require that certain minimum standards are upheld. Thankfully, "keyboard IP" on it's own didn't make the cut, and the individuals at BlackBerry Ltd who *are* in a position to make that decision don't share your views.
    11-15-19 09:25 AM
  24. conite's Avatar
    As you well know, the terms of BlackBerry Ltd's licensing agreement require that certain minimum standards are upheld. Thankfully, "keyboard IP" on it's own didn't make the cut, and the individuals at BlackBerry Ltd who *are* in a position to make that decision don't share your views.
    I'm not sure what you're even arguing.

    I'm talking about the future. Obviously the current licencing structure doesn't work, and we won't see the entire BlackBerry Secure / keyboard / brand package again.

    The BlackBerry tax for all three was simply far too expensive for anyone to make a go of it.
    11-15-19 09:56 AM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    As you well know, the terms of BlackBerry Ltd's licensing agreement require that certain minimum standards are upheld. Thankfully, "keyboard IP" on it's own didn't make the cut, and the individuals at BlackBerry Ltd who *are* in a position to make that decision don't share your views.
    So you’re advocating for no PKB if nobody else wants to license the whole BBAndroid package?

    While I don’t think BB would license the PKB alone, I don’t think we’re going to see BB licensing continue. We beggars can’t be choosers.
    11-15-19 09:59 AM
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