06-26-14 10:07 AM
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  1. trsbbs's Avatar
    Don't you believe Chen has done his due diligence and probably got a lot of feedback from enterprise customers on the need for physical keyboard? The man did not reach where he is in life by being "out of touch". If anything, he comes across as a shrewd businessman who is doing his utmost to turn the company and its fortunes around. I rather give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he is doing.
    No. He started saying this the first week he was on board. He is shooting from the hip. If true why are so many Enterprise customer dumping BlackBerry for BYOD or IPhones?

    Using a BlackBerry Z10! The "UnDroid"!
    06-20-14 10:25 AM
  2. KenFletch's Avatar
    No. He started saying this the first week he was on board. He is shooting from the hip. If true why are so many Enterprise customer dumping BlackBerry for BYOD or IPhones?

    Using a BlackBerry Z10! The "UnDroid"!
    I'd you were paying attention to what he said he did a lot of checking on what was wrong and what the problems were before taking the job

    HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10
    06-20-14 10:48 AM
  3. matt4pack's Avatar
    This device should be a system admin's dream. No virtual keyboard taking up half the screen.

    Posted via CB10
    06-20-14 10:53 AM
  4. anon1727506's Avatar
    I think there is a market for QWERTY devices... and I think that with the Passport they may have a device that provides the screen real estate that most people want along with the physical keyboard that is also highly desired - at least the one handed version.

    But I agree that launching two QWERTY devices with no updates to your aging Touch Devices seems short sighted if BES12 is suppose to open BB10 up to enterprise. Because I can see more people going with a QWERTY Devices, I don't see it being the dominate form factor... maybe 10% - 15% of users would select either of those devices. I think majority are going to want a touch device, and if all BlackBerry has is a 12 month old device that isn't available on but one carrier in the US and then a 20 month old device.... I'm thinking IT departments are going to have to look at offering "other" devices.

    If the Classic and the Passport are separated by at least $100, then I think there is room for them both. But if they are both premium devices.... I'm not sure carrier's will want both of them.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    06-20-14 10:58 AM
  5. Gray's Avatar
    I haven't read through the entire thread yet but here's my thought. It's important to have an alternative to touch screen keyboards. It's a matter of personal preference. Consider that some smartphone users have never even tried a physical keyboard. It's possible they would prefer one if given the chance to use a Blackberry. Especially older users who might have upgraded from a cell phone to a smartphone. They may see a phone as a way to communicate in today's world. Not as a gaming platform. Then again they might kick A$$ on candy crush. Either way it depends on the person and what they prefer.

    I have a Q10 for work and still enjoy using the keyboard. It's easy and straight forward. There's not much chance of a random word showing up because the phone thought it knew what I was doing

    There should be a choice if you want something other than a touch screen.
    06-20-14 11:43 AM
  6. KenFletch's Avatar
    Many have said too many devices was a BlackBerry problem and sterling into fewer models and a predictable release pattern was wise

    Apple has settled into one new phone and a refresh of last year's phone.

    Since bb10 release we have.

    Z10
    Q10
    Q5
    Z30
    Z3
    All in 15 months
    With 2 PKB phones in the next 5 month
    And a probable bigger all touch phones in about a year

    That's 8 phones in 2 yrs, true enough 5 PKB and 3 all touch, but it is BlackBerry after all.

    This is twice as many as many advised and
    4 times as many as Apple brings forward

    And how many canceled models as well.

    Looks to me like there is one low market and one high market touch phone for active sale with Z10s sort of still around in discount bins

    At present 2 PKB phones with not great penetration that will be replaced but there will be 4 PKB choices this fall. Pricing will mean a lot.

    HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10
    06-20-14 11:53 AM
  7. slagman5's Avatar
    Many have said too many devices was a BlackBerry problem and sterling into fewer models and a predictable release pattern was wise

    Apple has settled into one new phone and a refresh of last year's phone.

    Since bb10 release we have.

    Z10
    Q10
    Q5
    Z30
    Z3
    All in 15 months
    With 2 PKB phones in the next 5 month
    And a probable bigger all touch phones in about a year

    That's 8 phones in 2 yrs, true enough 5 PKB and 3 all touch, but it is BlackBerry after all.

    This is twice as many as many advised and
    4 times as many as Apple brings forward

    And how many canceled models as well.

    Looks to me like there is one low market and one high market touch phone for active sale with Z10s sort of still around in discount bins

    At present 2 PKB phones with not great penetration that will be replaced but there will be 4 PKB choices this fall. Pricing will mean a lot.

    HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10
    Think your math is a little wrong. That would be 4 pkb and 4 all-touch...

    Pkb:
    Q10
    Q5
    Classic
    Passport

    All-touch:
    Z10
    Z30
    Z3
    And future rumored all-touch device.

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    06-20-14 12:43 PM
  8. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Don't you believe Chen has done his due diligence and probably got a lot of feedback from enterprise customers on the need for physical keyboard? The man did not reach where he is in life by being "out of touch". If anything, he comes across as a shrewd businessman who is doing his utmost to turn the company and its fortunes around. I rather give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he is doing.
    If the vast majority of smartphone users prefer an all touch phone then so will business users.

    Posted via CB10
    kbz1960 likes this.
    06-20-14 01:01 PM
  9. KenFletch's Avatar
    Think your math is a little wrong. That would be 4 pkb and 4 all-touch...

    Pkb:
    Q10
    Q5
    Classic
    Passport

    All-touch:
    Z10
    Z30
    Z3
    And future rumored all-touch device.

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    Duh

    HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10
    06-20-14 02:25 PM
  10. Tim Heard's Avatar
    Probably because there were not a lot of good QWERTY phones available.
    HP had one in the works, but their CEO went nuts and pulled the whole mobile division shortly before the phones were released. ... Which earned him a well-deserved termination. (That and other ill-conceived decisions.)

    A new chart posted by Alex Barredo of Post PC shows that the percentage of mobile phones with full QWERTY keyboards was still at above 25% as recently as 2010, even though today it stands at somewhere around 1%. In fact, QWERTY-equipped phones didn't really start to drop off the map until the period between 2011 and 2012, when their share of the market plunged from around 20% to well below 10%.

    QWERTY smartphone market share is now nonexistent | BGR

    Using a BlackBerry Z10! The "UnDroid"!
    06-20-14 02:26 PM
  11. SK122387's Avatar
    I'm imagining it right now. It certainly wouldn't be something along the lines of, "BlackBerry finally gets it" or "BlackBerry finally makes a phone that appeals to the masses." because nobody wants touch devices.



    Yes, you're right. The Z10 and Z30 didn't sell because there is not market for touch devices. It definitely wasn't anything to do with the devices themselves or the OS. They were perfect.

    Chen was dead wrong when he said that they, "over promised and under delivered."



    Absolutely right again. What the core customers want it keyboard phones. And those core customers are numerous. That's why BlackBerry is doing so well and Apple failed miserably.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    The masses? Forget the masses. BlackBerry's immediate plan is not to attract the masses. BlackBerry can't even get their phones on STORE SHELVES. What carrier in their right mind would sell yet another touch screen BlackBerry right now? The Storm, Storm 2, Torch 9860/9850, Z10. Carriers have given BlackBerry YEARS to show them that carrying a touchscreen device with a BlackBerry logo on it won't be a disaster, and BlackBerry has failed to deliver. I liked my Z10, I love my Z30, don't get me wrong, but I bought them to support BlackBerry, not because they're perfect alternatives to an iPhone or Android. How long do you suggest BlackBerry keep jumping up and down screaming, "Look! Look! Over here! We have touchscreen phones with nice screens and nice batteries just like iPhones and high end Samsungs! We swear! Really! This time it's FOR REAL!" I think you, and others, need to come to terms with the fact that BlackBerry is no longer trying to win back iOS and Android users, hoping for some media-centric experience on their devices. Don't the Passport and Classic spell that out to you? BlackBerry knows where it's wanted, and right now, as history has shown, it's definitely not in the all touchscreen space.

    If BlackBerry weren't living on borrowed time, I'd agree and say BlackBerry should create *another* attempt at a high end touchscreen phone. But just one more failure, one more catastrophic write-down of hardware, and everything John Chen has done (the layoffs, downsizing, streamlining) would all be in vain.

    Should BlackBerry create a high end touchscreen phone in the future? Absolutely. I'd love a Z30 successor. But on my Z30, I don't like the lag in Android ports, so I'm not even excited about the Amazon App Store *for me.* I think it's best to have the Passport and Classic, with good specs and some cool new features, so Q10 users can upgrade, and more importantly, Legacy users feel comfortable putting their old Bolds down and upgrading. In businesses, governments, BlackBerry can continue to build on (and in some cases repair) their relationships, and then after a few quarters of growth or however long, come out with a seriously good touchscreen device that won't be met by the media and tech blogs with a collective eye roll and sigh.
    Timbosaurus and anon(6038817) like this.
    06-20-14 02:44 PM
  12. slagman5's Avatar
    Duh

    HTC TOUCH, Nokia-N97, BlackBerry Torch 9800, Z10
    Well, you said: "5 PKB and 3 all touch"
    06-20-14 04:39 PM
  13. KarlosSpicyWienr's Avatar
    Your one customer and not with the majority. The majority are for and currently using touch screen phones.

    Sorry but you and folks with the same preference are the very small minority in the cell world.

    Using a BlackBerry Z10! The "UnDroid"!
    And BlackBerry is catering to that very small minority. There are plenty of options for slab users, almost none for the PKB users. I was a keyboard guy since 8900 but decided to try out the slab experience with this Z10, both the classic and passport have me intrigued to switch back. It will be a cold day on hell before the wife gives up her KB and is excited for the classic, she's using a Q10 right now. If BlackBerry ever stopped making phones she says she'll end up buying a stockpile of their latest model.

    Posted via CB10 via Z10STL100-3/10.3.0.296
    06-20-14 05:23 PM
  14. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    BlackBerry must play to its strengths if it hopes to survive as a company and a brand. It makes sense for them to focus on physical keyboards right now, as that is one of the things that still sets them apart from the rest. Especially since they have now conceded defeat in developing their own app and media ecosystem.

    That said, it's difficult to dispute the fact that those who prefer physical keyboards make up a small percentage of the overall market.

    I don't see how BlackBerry devices can gain any kind of mass appeal for quite some time, but that's obviously not the point of these recent moves, is it?

    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    SK122387 and kbz1960 like this.
    06-20-14 05:35 PM
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I can buy that. The new Qs being much better than any PK phones available.

    I still think that Foxconn has the potential to deliver better quality phones than we have seen before.
    I do not buy the notion that BlackBerry returns are due mainly to software issues.

    Posted via CB10
    06-20-14 06:45 PM
  16. DJM626's Avatar
    I hope that Foxconn does a better job than whomever made the Q10 and Z10. Lots of returns on those phones


    Posted via CB10
    There are a lot of returns on all phones, only when BB F!@#S up, one takes notice of it more. I have heard people that I work with constantly complaining of the build of their phones as well, and they certainly are not Black Berries
    06-20-14 07:23 PM
  17. johnnyuk's Avatar
    When enough are in circulation the Apps will follow.
    That's why we're getting the Amazon App Store, there will never be enough BB10 phones in circulation for the native app gap to close.

    Posted via CB10 on Z30 STA100-2 /10.2.1.3175 on O2 UK - Activated on BES10.2.2
    06-20-14 07:55 PM
  18. potatoheadguy's Avatar
    I think they are far from a niche player! give them time!
    06-20-14 08:14 PM
  19. Paisley Pirate's Avatar
    The whole physical KB thing... you can't get a decent one outside of BB it seems... I had one a couple years ago (the Samsung Android before my last Samsung Android) and it had issues. No where near as nice as the BB I had a long time ago (nor even as nice as the Palm I had)

    Yeah, with no good keyboards, OF COURSE everyone is going to full touch... BBRY can indeed differentiate themselves with this alone.

    I do wish my Z10 was physical keyboard, since I like that, and want that - but I got my Z10 for the right price at the right time... so I'll live with it until I can afford a Passport.
    06-20-14 08:50 PM
  20. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Yeah, with no good keyboards, OF COURSE everyone is going to full touch... BBRY can indeed differentiate themselves with this alone.
    Are you implying that if other platforms offered devices with BlackBerry-like physical keyboards, they'd be more popular?

    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. There are 2 proven ways to implement physical keyboards on a smartphone (or at least these are the 2 that only really caught on):

    1. Put it below the display
    2. Slide it out from behind the display

    With the first method, you sacrifice screen size or have an uncommon aspect ratio like 1:1.

    With the second method you add substantial bulk to the phone so it's thicker than most and cumbersome to hold and carry around.

    I tried a Bold 9930 for 30 days and a Q10 for 15 days recently. Brilliant devices in their own right and an absolute joy to use the keyboards on both. But a major gripe of mine was the screen size and aspect ratio.

    It's not a matter of "if you make it they will buy it". If keyboards were in significant demand, the market would answer that demand.


    Posted from my BlackBerry Z30 via Tapatalk
    johnnyuk likes this.
    06-20-14 10:44 PM
  21. trwallace's Avatar
    The keyboard phones are not about dominating the keyboard market or expanding it. Its about using current legacy users over to bb10. They want the user base that are already using BlackBerry to get over to the new OS. Who doesn't understand this? Its not about bringing keyboards to themasses its to keep customers they already have onboard. That's the strategy. Once they get the user base then they can move into other areas to capture full screen customers. I just don't understand people who say they want to capture market share with keyboards. No they want to keep market share with their current user base. Hopefully everyone understands this. I still keep seeing comments like they are trying to go backwards to capture new customers. Wake up!!!

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    06-20-14 10:46 PM
  22. Bonnie Bonzai's Avatar
    Think your math is a little wrong. That would be 4 pkb and 4 all-touch...

    Pkb:
    Q10
    Q5
    Classic
    Passport

    All-touch:
    Z10
    Z30
    Z3
    And future rumored all-touch device.

    ?Posted without the aid of AutoCorrect with my physical keyboard via CB10?
    Regardless of the math - it's way too many phones...
    kbz1960 likes this.
    06-21-14 09:11 AM
  23. crazigee's Avatar
    Regardless of the math - it's way too many phones...
    I agree. I think three devices would be enough. 2 touch devices, one Z10 sized and one Z30 sized. And one PKB sized.

    No need to have 16 different models when BlackBerry don't have the market share to justify it.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    Bonnie Bonzai likes this.
    06-21-14 10:34 AM
  24. crazigee's Avatar
    I think they are far from a niche player! give them time!
    Right now they are a niche player. No doubt about that.

    Hopefully that will change though. I don't know if they will ever be one of the major players the way they used to be, but I hope they can at least get back to being profitable.

    Posted using my Z10 via CB10
    06-21-14 10:37 AM
  25. kbz1960's Avatar
    Funny how they went from reducing the line up because it was too much to going right back to throwing stuff against the wall to find what sticks.
    Bonnie Bonzai and johnnyuk like this.
    06-21-14 10:40 AM
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