05-20-19 07:57 AM
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  1. thurask's Avatar
    If I had to guess what the KEY3 would look like, almost exactly like the KEY2 but with some at best limited feature change (soft buttons? Wireless charging?), Snapdragon 670 (if it isn't the 660 again), no OS updates, nil carrier support outside of Canada, and fat markup.

    You'll all still buy three each anyway.
    05-18-19 05:25 PM
  2. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I'm probably one of the few hoping you're right.
    I actually hope they stay away from amoled screens. Having experience with it on an S8 and now an S9, while they look great at first, they are highly susceptible to burn-in. I was very careful on the S8 which I had for a little over a year before it hit the ground and broke the screen. Now it just shows a flickering bright light green screen, but I can still make out the old location of the Hub icon that was on the bottom dock.

    My oldest son had an S8 too, and he played some game for so long that it burned in several screen icons, and the overall screen now has a mostly pink cast to it except at the edges.
    Amoled screens don't have burn-in, it's just he literally wore the LED's out. Then again, they're supposed to last twenty years if left at full brightness 24/7. The whole screen is an RGB array of lights.

    Submitted via blackberry passport on freedom mobile HSPA+ or LTE
    05-18-19 05:30 PM
  3. the_boon's Avatar
    Oh, so it gives a modicum more of screen space? What phones have that? Never seen on a Berry or Samsung
    That's because those are literally the only two brands that haven't adopted the notch.
    05-18-19 08:42 PM
  4. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    That's because those are literally the only two brands that haven't adopted the notch.
    True, it's technically not a notch.
    05-18-19 11:03 PM
  5. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I find interesting that people say "we did this thing this one time. The results were bad therefore it won't work next time."

    In this industry, timing is everything. Just because the Apple Newton didn't do too well didn't stop them from releasing the iPad years later.

    When Apple railed publicly against larger screen sizes in the past when they were at 3.5in (iPhone 4, 4S; same size as K1/K2, go figure), that didn't stop them from following the market when it went bigger.

    People wanted different things in the past than they do today. They'll want different things in the future.

    Just because the motion did "just ok" (not great - also: my assumption, having never seen the P&L) when it came out, doesn't really preclude BlackBerry from going all touch again in the future.

    In the end, we don't really know what will come out. Our wants here on this fan-boy & fan-girl site doesn't necessarily align with the broader BlackBerry market necessarily.

    They'll release something. Individuals will either like or dislike it and vote with their wallets when that time comes.
    I agree with this general observation. However, Storm/Storm2, 9850/9860, Z10, Z30, Leap, DTEK50, DTEK60 and Motion all represent failed VKB attempts. Ninth time’s a charm?
    the_boon likes this.
    05-19-19 06:08 AM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I agree with this general observation. However, Storm/Storm2, 9850/9860, Z10, Z30, Leap, DTEK50, DTEK60 and Motion all represent failed VKB attempts. Ninth time’s a charm?
    Failed in terms of commercial success for many reasons. But my Z10 is awesome and amazing. 6+ years old and still my favorite device for daily carry.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-19-19 07:41 AM
  7. the_boon's Avatar
    Ninth time’s a charm?
    05-19-19 09:48 AM
  8. thurask's Avatar
    I agree with this general observation. However, Storm/Storm2, 9850/9860, Z10, Z30, Leap, DTEK50, DTEK60 and Motion all represent failed VKB attempts. Ninth time’s a charm?
    Evolve, Aurora...
    05-19-19 09:51 AM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I agree with this general observation. However, Storm/Storm2, 9850/9860, Z10, Z30, Leap, DTEK50, DTEK60 and Motion all represent failed VKB attempts. Ninth time’s a charm?
    All of the BB10 devices were commercial failures due to the OS.

    The DTEK 50 was burdened by the BlackBerry tax and it had to compete with the same phone offered by Alcatel.

    The DTEK 60 was too expensive and it had a major battery issue.

    The Motion has a inadequate camera and huge bezels and was too expensive.

    If TCL and BlackBerry could agree on a reduced reasonable fee and TCL could actually make a phone that was Pixel 3a good they might be able to sell a VKB.

    Conite says that BlackBerry needs to make a profit . Sure, but most likely their related expenses are minimal or likely not to increase substantially with an additional model. Wouldn’t BlackBerry make just as much if they reduced their fee and TCL doubled their sales?

    The problem here is that TCL would need to make a great phone. A bridge too far?
    05-19-19 10:27 AM
  10. conite's Avatar
    Wouldn’t BlackBerry make just as much if they reduced their fee and TCL doubled their sales?
    Why would you assume that these two companies don't have data, and/or don't do the math correctly?

    If they could find a better formula that is mutually beneficial, do you not think they would use it?
    05-19-19 10:32 AM
  11. Rootbrian's Avatar
    All of the BB10 devices were commercial failures due to the OS.

    The DTEK 50 was burdened by the BlackBerry tax and it had to compete with the same phone offered by Alcatel.

    The DTEK 60 was too expensive and it had a major battery issue.

    The Motion has a inadequate camera and huge bezels and was too expensive.

    If TCL and BlackBerry could agree on a reduced reasonable fee and TCL could actually make a phone that was Pixel 3a good they might be able to sell a VKB.

    Conite says that BlackBerry needs to make a profit . Sure, but most likely their related expenses are minimal or likely not to increase substantially with an additional model. Wouldn’t BlackBerry make just as much if they reduced their fee and TCL doubled their sales?

    The problem here is that TCL would need to make a great phone. A bridge too far?
    Blackberry mobile is TCL.
    Blackberry limited, only submits the designs, however they don't make the hardware. I only refer to bbmobile now.

    Submitted via blackberry passport on freedom mobile HSPA+ or LTE
    05-19-19 10:47 AM
  12. Invictus0's Avatar
    I agree with this general observation. However, Storm/Storm2, 9850/9860, Z10, Z30, Leap, DTEK50, DTEK60 and Motion all represent failed VKB attempts. Ninth time’s a charm?
    Low volume or devices with major issues are rejected by the market? Weird.

    What's often forgotten in these conversations is that BlackBerry also has their own expectations for sales that need to be met.

    He said he'd be disappointed with one million units sold and expects the licensing agreements, in total, to pay royalties on multimillion units annually.
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bla...rter-1.4049251

    I think it's clear the brand isn't strong enough for that to happen off PKB devices alone right now no matter how good they are. If TCL and Optiemus Infracom are the only main licensees left then a workable VKB line is basically required. The devices failed but there were still millions of BlackBerry VKB owners and I'm sure many VKB converts who are nostalgic about the brand but won't go back to a physical keyboard.
    05-19-19 11:23 AM
  13. the_boon's Avatar
    I'm sure many VKB converts who are nostalgic about the brand but won't go back to a physical keyboard.
    Nostalgic VKB users are probably nostalgic 99% for the keyboard.

    SlabBerry's will always fail in my opinion.
    05-19-19 11:26 AM
  14. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Blackberry mobile is TCL.
    Blackberry limited, only submits the designs, however they don't make the hardware. I only refer to bbmobile now.

    Submitted via blackberry passport on freedom mobile HSPA+ or LTE
    BlackBerry no longer designs the phones . TCL does their own now.
    John Albert likes this.
    05-19-19 11:28 AM
  15. Invictus0's Avatar
    Nostalgic VKB users are probably nostalgic 99% for the keyboard.

    SlabBerry's will always fail in my opinion.
    Mobile Nations should do a survey. Some of those users have likely been off the brand for 5-10 years, it would be interesting to know their thoughts given how smartphones uses have evolved since then.
    05-19-19 11:32 AM
  16. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Why would you assume that these two companies don't have data, and/or don't do the math correctly?

    If they could find a better formula that is mutually beneficial, do you not think they would use it?
    No, my SPECULATION is that the partnership has spoiled quite a while back. They are both into face saving territory now.
    John Albert likes this.
    05-19-19 11:35 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    No, my SPECULATION is that the partnership has spoiled quite a while back. They are both into face saving territory now.
    I'm not even sure what this means.

    Are you suggesting that they have a better formula, but won't use it because they want to save face by making less money?
    05-19-19 11:38 AM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Evolve, Aurora...
    So now I’m up to eleventy four and still we find more...
    05-19-19 11:42 AM
  19. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I'm not even sure what this means.

    Are you suggesting that they have a better formula, but won't use it because they want to save face by making less money?
    I think that TCL misunderstood the value of the BlackBerry brand in the USA market place and they thought that Enterprise customers would come back for a PKB.

    I think that BlackBerry really does not to want be in the mobile phones business for consumers. They thought they could monetize their OS.

    Sometimes companies shift their focus because their energies are better spent on other opportunities.

    Lastly, you might be right, either one or both companies did the math and felt that they would not benefit from a making a VKB device.

    I have listened to both Chen and his TCL counterpart. No shortage of ego there. No admission of bad decisions seems likely.
    05-19-19 01:04 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    I think that TCL misunderstood the value of the BlackBerry brand in the USA market place and they thought that Enterprise customers would come back for a PKB.

    I think that BlackBerry really does not to want be in the mobile phones business for consumers. They thought they could monetize their OS.
    The only question that needs to be asked is if both entities have a positive ROI, or a reasonable expectation of a positive ROI. We don't know 1/10th of the detail necessary to analyse this, so we'll just have to see how it all comes out in the wash.
    CandidBerrytales likes this.
    05-19-19 01:18 PM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I think that TCL misunderstood the value of the BlackBerry brand in the USA market place and they thought that Enterprise customers would come back for a PKB.

    I think that BlackBerry really does not to want be in the mobile phones business for consumers. They thought they could monetize their OS.

    Sometimes companies shift their focus because their energies are better spent on other opportunities.

    Lastly, you might be right, either one or both companies did the math and felt that they would not benefit from a making a VKB device.

    I have listened to both Chen and his TCL counterpart. No shortage of ego there. No admission of bad decisions seems likely.
    I'm beginning to feel that success was TCL and BB signing the licensing deal, full stop.

    It bought time and created some extra cash flow on BB side.

    It demonstrated the ability of another partially state controlled entity to sell mobile hardware without nefarious compromise or torturous interference on TCL side.
    05-19-19 01:45 PM
  22. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Just because the motion did "just ok" (not great - also: my assumption, having never seen the P&L) when it came out, doesn't really preclude BlackBerry from going all touch again in the future.
    Preclude BlackBerry (or BBMo).... no.

    But there would need to be a reason for it. Sorry but we don't need to see P&L to know that BBMo ending the Motion after only six months or less on the market - was because it was a failure.

    What has changed in the last year that would give a new SLAB more of a chance at success? Do you think that the Evolve is a indicator that things might favor a BBMo releasing another slab?
    05-20-19 07:12 AM
  23. jmhblue's Avatar
    If I had to guess what the KEY3 would look like, almost exactly like the KEY2 but with some at best limited feature change (soft buttons? Wireless charging?), Snapdragon 670 (if it isn't the 660 again), no OS updates, nil carrier support outside of Canada, and fat markup.

    You'll all still buy three each anyway.
    I'll need ten so I can pair each of my PlayBooks with one.
    05-20-19 07:56 AM
  24. thurask's Avatar
    I'll need ten so I can pair each of my PlayBooks with one.
    Only ten? Pfft...
    05-20-19 07:57 AM
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