12-03-10 10:27 PM
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  1. Slapnpop826's Avatar
    As I look at the smartphone market it seems to me that 2011 will be a make or break year for RIM and it starts with the release of the Storm 3. the Torch failed to give RIM the boost they were looking for and they continue to lose market share to android phones and iphones at a brisk pace. I believe if RIM fails to deliver with the Storm 3, they will be so far behind in the consumer market that it may not even be worth pursuing any longer. A Storm 3 with a 1ghz processor, 8mp camera and 1gb RAM running a QNX OS and released in the first quarter 2011 should be their goal. anything short of that and I think they are doomed. Soon Verizon will not only be offering top of the line Android phones (Droid X, Droid 2, Incredible, Fascinate) but also the Iphone 4. The Storm 3 has a very steep hill to climb. I'm rooting for RIM.
    11-29-10 03:22 PM
  2. syb0rg's Avatar
    Can i ask why an 8MP camera seems to be the magic number? Are you people aware that when it comes to mobile devices the more the MP doesn't always mean a better picture?

    Other than that, i think they know, and that is why they have been quite with the details regarding the next wave of phones.
    11-29-10 03:25 PM
  3. pkcable's Avatar
    I'm not so fascinated with the touch screen anymore. They are nice, but I'm more excited for 4G, and for the QNX OS. I'll take a look at the Storm3, but I might just wait for the 4G, QNX Bold, and if that has a touch screen all the better, but I really love my Bold's keyboard and would not want to lose it.
    11-29-10 03:28 PM
  4. Slapnpop826's Avatar
    You are right 8mp is not a deal breaker, 5mp would be fine. I speaking more about just and aggressive approach as far as the hardware goes. I feel like the Torch was a major miscalculation when it came to the hardware specs. A better processor and screen would have probably commanded more attention for the device.
    11-29-10 03:52 PM
  5. syb0rg's Avatar
    You are right 8mp is not a deal breaker, 5mp would be fine. I speaking more about just and aggressive approach as far as the hardware goes. I feel like the Torch was a major miscalculation when it came to the hardware specs. A better processor and screen would have probably commanded more attention for the device.
    IMHO opinion the Torch needed to be a Landscape slider w/ good hardware. HTC, Palm and a few others tried out the Portrait slider and those ideas didn't last. Has far a hardware goes. I think RIM need to refine they OS before pumping muscle into it. Hopefully QNX will solve those needs. I honestly feel the same way about Android. The OS is nice, but not refined. and pumping iron is nice. but you have to be able to use it.
    Last edited by syb0rg; 11-29-10 at 04:33 PM.
    11-29-10 04:13 PM
  6. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    I agree, OS6 on the Torch is nice, but I'm not much on the hardware. It's a Bold keyboard with a Storm screen on top. Ya gotta start somewhere though...
    11-29-10 04:24 PM
  7. crackcookie's Avatar
    He is right, the storm doesn't have to have those exact numbers, but it must at least look competitive. Look at the Torch, they boasted about having a touch screen and slider. Tech that is old news, and then come with a 5.0 cam and meh resolution.

    2008's specs aren't going to wow people in 2010.

    If BB6 and the playbook are any indication, it seems as though Rim is here for the long run and will do what it takes to stay competitive.
    11-29-10 05:40 PM
  8. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    As long as it's not a 'Refresh' I think it could do fairly well. Adding more memory and an extra megapixel to the camera is not an upgrade if you ask me...
    11-29-10 05:44 PM
  9. skidooman93's Avatar
    the Torch failed to give RIM the boost they were looking for and they continue to lose market share to android phones and iphones at a brisk pace.

    According to reports AT&T and RIM have been very happy with sales of the torch. Reporting that it has sold much better than expected.

    Everyone here likes to compare sales of BB's to sales of android phones. You aren't comparing "apples to apples". Blackberry produces phones and operating systems. Android is only an operating system. Samsung, Motorola, HTC, LG, and others that I am too lazy to think about, produce phones that operate with the android OS. RIM sales need to be compared to the volume of devices that are sole compared to Apple, HTC, Samsung, Motorola, and the others, not against all android devices sold. The best comparison is Apple to RIM. But as we all know Apple appears to be the "Pig in the pink dress" right now.
    11-29-10 07:14 PM
  10. Slapnpop826's Avatar
    According to reports AT&T and RIM have been very happy with sales of the torch. Reporting that it has sold much better than expected.

    Everyone here likes to compare sales of BB's to sales of android phones. You aren't comparing "apples to apples". Blackberry produces phones and operating systems. Android is only an operating system. Samsung, Motorola, HTC, LG, and others that I am too lazy to think about, produce phones that operate with the android OS. RIM sales need to be compared to the volume of devices that are sole compared to Apple, HTC, Samsung, Motorola, and the others, not against all android devices sold. The best comparison is Apple to RIM. But as we all know Apple appears to be the "Pig in the pink dress" right now.
    True, but from a consumer perspective it is not viewed that way. I hear people say all the time that, "my next phone is going to be an android phone". They don't usually make a device specific statement when it comes to Android. So you basically have Blackberry, Iphone or Android phone in people's mind.
    11-29-10 10:10 PM
  11. Skeevecr's Avatar
    IMHO opinion the Torch needed to be a Landscape slider w/ good hardware. HTC, Palm and a few others tried out the Portrait slider and those ideas didn't last. Has far a hardware goes. I think RIM need to refine they OS before pumping muscle into it. Hopefully QNX will solve those needs. I honestly feel the same way about Android. The OS is nice, but not refined. and pumping iron is nice. but you have to be able to use it.
    If you think about the ergonomics of a slider then a portrait one actually makes a lot more sense than a landscape one, if you want a larger keyboard you can flip it and use the virtual one and when using it vertically you are able to use it comfortably in one hand unlike a landscape slider.

    I think you might have the hardware and OS priority the wrong way round as well, regardless of whether the next releases are qnx or just qnx-ready the crucial thing is that they have to be competitive hardware.
    11-29-10 10:16 PM
  12. Snipperdo17's Avatar
    If you think about the ergonomics of a slider then a portrait one actually makes a lot more sense than a landscape one, if you want a larger keyboard you can flip it and use the virtual one and when using it vertically you are able to use it comfortably in one hand unlike a landscape slider.

    I think you might have the hardware and OS priority the wrong way round as well, regardless of whether the next releases are qnx or just qnx-ready the crucial thing is that they have to be competitive hardware.
    I agree with the portrait keyboard. Everyone I know with a droid never used the landscape keyboard and I was the same way when I had the droid. It gets annoying when you have to turn the phone, slide the keyboard out, type, slide it back in, then turn the phone back around all just to send a text and continue what you were doing. RIM was right when they made the slider a portrait one.
    11-30-10 12:38 AM
  13. crackcookie's Avatar
    True, but from a consumer perspective it is not viewed that way. I hear people say all the time that, "my next phone is going to be an android phone". They don't usually make a device specific statement when it comes to Android. So you basically have Blackberry, Iphone or Android phone in people's mind.
    Most consumers are just that, consumers, they aren't fit for business.

    Rim's main audience is business. A lot of business users can't just up and upgrade their phones at a whim. Also, a lot of blackberry users.....are content.
    I was content with my 9000, until I downloaded a few more apps and it slowed down.

    Now Im content with my 9700 and its OS6.

    I am out of contract, but I feel no pressing need to go out and buy the latest phone, simply because its the newest one out, and for some reason, I feel a lot of Blackberry users feel the same way. Yes, their Storm 2 is underpowered compared to the latest Droid, but they love their phone. And until it either stops working how it should, or there is simply a great advancement in the times, I don't see people just ditching their BB for the next hot thing, simply for the sake of having it.
    11-30-10 12:40 AM
  14. fmflex's Avatar
    Just my 2 cents. I'm a long time, hardcore, business BB user. I even developed apps for BB when App World opened. I love my Storm, but I'm at a crossroad. BB no longer has the advantage that they once possessed. All smart phones can now do emails and messaging just as good as a BB. The BB is falling behind, and I'm on the verge of switching. iPhone is coming to Verizon, LTE is coming, and more awesome Android phones are being released all the time. I must say, as much as it pains me, that if by Feb/Mar, RIM doesn't release something really revolutionary (I hope for an awesome Storm 3) and by revolutionary I mean, LTE compatible, 1Ghz, OS 6, and a nice screen, I'm leaving BB. I get this feeling that I'm not the only one. I talk to more and more people that are abandoning ship in large numbers. A lot of them are IT people who are taking whole companies with them. I think the next 3-6 months will be crucial for RIM. If they don't do something quick, I'm going to start short selling their stock. That's my 2 cent.
    11-30-10 02:02 AM
  15. BunniesBerry's Avatar
    I'm really sick of hearing the argument that RIM produces BlackBerries for the business costumer. RIM has now entered the consumer market with BlackBerries so they need to start selling phones with the consumer bells and whistles. By no means do I expect RIM to push out new BlackBerry models as much as we see new Android models. As it was mentioned earlier the Android OS is used by several brands therefore it's expected that there will be a wider variety of Droids produced by different companies. But RIM needs to start making phones with specs that are actually competitive to these other phones around them.(Personally I agree that RIM should get aggressive with the specs and start trying to set the curve as they are trying to do with the PlayBook) If I am going to pay around the same price for my BB I want it to do what the Droids and the iPhone can do. It's is only fair. And For those who say if you want those features then get a Droid or an iPhone to that I say there are far too many things I love about my BB to switch that easily. For instance the portrait vs. landscape keyboard debate. A mark of BB users who love their BlackBerry is the keyboard and the ability to use it with one hand. That will surely be lost if RIM makes a landscape slider, and I surely will not be buying it. Beside my love of the BlackBerry keyboard there are a number of other features that keep me tied to it, but I do agree that RIM is lagging and they need to step it up. I'm waiting for something that I find will be worth using my upgrade on and I hope RIM realizes that I am one of many doing so. There are plenty of BB lovers waiting to be wowed by a phone that is really trying to compete in the consumer and business market of today.
    11-30-10 05:50 AM
  16. 67Tucker's Avatar
    They need to ditch the name "Storm". That name is a joke in the touchscreen smartphone arena.
    11-30-10 07:12 AM
  17. The_Engine's Avatar
    Forget about specs. That is a very android way of thinking. Look at the new devices with the 2nd gen snap dragons like the HTC Merge. It was clocked at 800ghz so everyone figured itnwas a waste. Then some one got their hands on it and ran some benchmarks and it out performed the devices with higher clock speeds. Sure specs are an indicator of performance or even longevity. The more horse power the longer the life expectancy as new software rolls out in the upcoming months and years. But really it is about the performance. The torch was old hardware and a lot of people slammed it for that. The first OS6 builds seemed very laggy to me on the ones I saw. I have read that later builds are better. The reality is that RIM has to ensure that the hardware is enough to run the software well and that it provides forward compatibility for at least 18 to 24 months of thru software roadmap. This is where they failed time and again in the past. (too little memory on S1 to support the apps they were pushing with App World, and then again too little memory on the S2 to support BB6). People don't obsess over specs with the iPhone. There it is more about the new features and stuff like that. That is because the iPhone generally runs very well and has only ran into foward compatibility issues after about 2 years of life.

    So back to the OPS...it doesn't have to be 1ghz and 8mp (and I agree with other that mp mean nothing-give me a better sensor and better software on the camera). in fact by early next year you'll are dual core devices. So that single 1ghz chip will be looked at as old and it would be. But whatever they have running it better make the OS hum and provide features like HD video and recording, open GL support, etc.


    Since RIM boasted on how QNX runs so good on multi core processors I would be a but disappointed if we don't are something dual core in the S3 or that Armada 628 tri core beast. But even if it is just a single 1 ghz chip I would reserve judgement until you can lay hands on it and are how it rocks.

    Honestly I bet that RIM will undercut the hardware and go with there normal 'just enough' approach and say how they needed to preserve battery life or some ****.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-30-10 09:12 AM
  18. grahamf's Avatar
    I'm really sick of hearing the argument that RIM produces BlackBerries for the business costumer. RIM has now entered the consumer market with BlackBerries so they need to start selling phones with the consumer bells and whistles. By no means do I expect RIM to push out new BlackBerry models as much as we see new Android models. As it was mentioned earlier the Android OS is used by several brands therefore it's expected that there will be a wider variety of Droids produced by different companies. But RIM needs to start making phones with specs that are actually competitive to these other phones around them.(Personally I agree that RIM should get aggressive with the specs and start trying to set the curve as they are trying to do with the PlayBook) If I am going to pay around the same price for my BB I want it to do what the Droids and the iPhone can do. It's is only fair. And For those who say if you want those features then get a Droid or an iPhone to that I say there are far too many things I love about my BB to switch that easily. For instance the portrait vs. landscape keyboard debate. A mark of BB users who love their BlackBerry is the keyboard and the ability to use it with one hand. That will surely be lost if RIM makes a landscape slider, and I surely will not be buying it. Beside my love of the BlackBerry keyboard there are a number of other features that keep me tied to it, but I do agree that RIM is lagging and they need to step it up. I'm waiting for something that I find will be worth using my upgrade on and I hope RIM realizes that I am one of many doing so. There are plenty of BB lovers waiting to be wowed by a phone that is really trying to compete in the consumer and business market of today.
    That's what RIM has been trying to do for the last few years.

    However, the current BlackBerry OS has a lot of legacy code that merely makes it more inefficient on a more powerful system. Hence, THe next generation of BlackBerries will run an OS based on QNX.
    The problem is, QNX will not be ready until another few months.


    THAT is why devices such as the Torch and other new BBs have had such old hardware. Once QNX comes out and you see devices such as the Torch refresh with 800-1000mhz processor, your whole world will change.
    11-30-10 09:23 AM
  19. syb0rg's Avatar
    If you think about the ergonomics of a slider then a portrait one actually makes a lot more sense than a landscape one, if you want a larger keyboard you can flip it and use the virtual one and when using it vertically you are able to use it comfortably in one hand unlike a landscape slider.

    I think you might have the hardware and OS priority the wrong way round as well, regardless of whether the next releases are qnx or just qnx-ready the crucial thing is that they have to be competitive hardware.
    Well that is your opinion, and you are entitled to that. Just as i am entitled to my opinion. I just know that i have see SEVERAL portrait sliders come and go and nothing seems to stick. how ever you have the G1, The G2, The Epic4G, the entire EnV line, and several others that are landscape sliders/flip that seem to last. There aren't to many portrait sliders that have stood the test of time.

    and regarding the hardware/software issues. You need to refine the OS before you pump muscle into it. You cannot take a Yugo and throw a Chevrolet 350 in in and expect the car to do much. The car is little, unrefined and not properly put together. But you take that same engine and throw it in a 1969 Camero and the engine will preform to a good standard and you will be able to do what you need to do.

    same thing with the OS/Processor power. you can throw a 1Ghrz processor in a 9700 and it will preform to a standard. But you refine that OS and you will make it shine. That's my point.
    Last edited by syb0rg; 11-30-10 at 09:34 AM.
    11-30-10 09:30 AM
  20. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    RIM's place in the US market is very dependent on the Storm 3, but really even with an AMAZING Storm 3 I don't see them gaining much market share just at the rate the market is expanding, I see them maintaining marketshare at best, WHICH I think would be impressive of them

    as for the negative comments about the Torch, in Canada the Torch has been a very successful phone, as it is a cross carrier phone, it is only in the US the Torch did so badly, and I think the biggest reason is it was launched at the wrong time, Launch a phone on an the only iPhone network in the US, shortly after the iPhone 4 is launched, you've missed the boat on the people who were not on contract and can be enticed by advertising, and you didn't launched a good OS in the US. RIMs problem is their public perception strategy is flawed, the still make solid devices, I do not think I need a stronger hardware wise.
    As for the orientation of keyboard, I would not have purchased a landscape slider, and a landscape slider would not have RIM's signature keyboard, the Portrait keyboard was the right way to go, it filled a market gap, that Android and windows 7 are not in. Just like the Style.

    NOW onto the Storm 3,
    I'll never buy a 100% touch phone, or at least not until their are no longer physical keyboard phones available, The Storm 3 does play an important roll with RIM, it needs to prove to the Bloggers that RIM can play the same game as Apple, and Android, it doesn't need THE BEST hardware, but it needs to not lag, it doesn't need THE BEST battery life, but it must do better than the torch, and live up to the name blackberry.
    It needs to come out with a Solid preinstalled foundation, it needs to come out without the NEED for 3rd party apps, BUT have easy access to a 3rd Party app network,
    And it Needs to come out with some catchy commercials, much like the Torch did, just back up the advertising with a quality delivered on time, operating system, and use the Storm as a flagship consumer device, it should have a faster upgrade cycle than the other Blackberry Models, until the consumer stops wanting only touch screen
    11-30-10 09:40 AM
  21. SurrealCivic's Avatar
    They need to ditch the name "Storm". That name is a joke in the touchscreen smartphone arena.
    I think RIM fully understand this.
    11-30-10 09:51 AM
  22. fmflex's Avatar
    Someone was saying something about RIM trying to gain market share. Ha! That boat has sailed. At this point they need to stop the bleeding of current customer base, because at current rates, they'll have like 3 customers left in a year or two.
    11-30-10 10:45 AM
  23. corymcnutt's Avatar
    They need to ditch the name "Storm". That name is a joke in the touchscreen smartphone arena.
    I think RIM fully understand this.
    Sorry, but I think you're both wrong; it's a "joke" only to people who really just want to bash the phone, and would never buy it anyway. CB type people know what's right and wrong and the average phone buyer has no idea about the Storm's bashing...if the Storm3 has a big screen, fast processor, lots of memory, they may or may not buy it - the name means nothing to them. Speaking of the name, Storm is a GREAT name for the phone and I really the RIM will keep it; otherwise it will be admitting a mistake - and, as a S2 owner, I don't believe it was.
    11-30-10 11:59 AM
  24. BunniesBerry's Avatar
    That's what RIM has been trying to do for the last few years.

    However, the current BlackBerry OS has a lot of legacy code that merely makes it more inefficient on a more powerful system. Hence, THe next generation of BlackBerries will run an OS based on QNX.
    The problem is, QNX will not be ready until another few months.


    THAT is why devices such as the Torch and other new BBs have had such old hardware. Once QNX comes out and you see devices such as the Torch refresh with 800-1000mhz processor, your whole world will change.
    Just read a post on the News and Rumors saying 6 touch devices running on QNX will be released in the 2nd half of 2011. I'm hoping this is true because I'm ready for my whole world to change with my BlackBerry by my side!
    11-30-10 12:39 PM
  25. syb0rg's Avatar
    Sorry, but I think you're both wrong; it's a "joke" only to people who really just want to bash the phone, and would never buy it anyway. CB type people know what's right and wrong and the average phone buyer has no idea about the Storm's bashing...if the Storm3 has a big screen, fast processor, lots of memory, they may or may not buy it - the name means nothing to them. Speaking of the name, Storm is a GREAT name for the phone and I really the RIM will keep it; otherwise it will be admitting a mistake - and, as a S2 owner, I don't believe it was.
    The Storm name is synonymous with problems in the smart-phone world. I understand you like your storm, and that is cool with me. but for those of us, and i am one of those, that have owned a "S1", well never own another Blackberry phone with the name "storm" it in.
    11-30-10 12:53 PM
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