09-14-15 05:00 PM
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  1. DolemiteDONS's Avatar
    Show me a company where the "bosses" all use Passports. Not a company with one employee and a boss that makes him use a Passport by the way.
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ports-1024637/
    Smitty13 likes this.
    07-01-15 06:02 PM
  2. Bbnivende's Avatar
    BlackBerry needs to disclose their roadmap so that loyal customers can make informed decisions as to whether to stick with BB10 or not. BlackBerry needs to not announce things until they're ready.

    Consumers will buy an Android BlackBerry for security. Consumers don't care about security; that is, given a choice between usability or security, usability wins.

    A full touch slab will solve all of BlackBerry's problems. BlackBerry's problem is lack of marketing and apps.

    BlackBerry will stop making hardware and go software only. BlackBerry will release an Android device with a BlackBerry skin.
    I get it!

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-15 06:08 PM
  3. danielcj's Avatar
    If you are chatting via BBM with someone outside of your BES, then that isn't really secure either, is it? Everything is encrypted using a common shared key which has been shared with at least one law enforcement agency already.


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    Yea and most people chatting on BBM aren't on BES. Who still uses their blackberry email account? Does it even still exists?

    I think my biggest want from BB is device form factor, pkb, hub and ability to run Android apps. Is that too much to ask?

    Moto X 2014 / Passport
    ayngling likes this.
    07-01-15 06:11 PM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    Yea and most people chatting on BBM aren't on BES. Who still uses their blackberry email account? Does it even still exists?

    I think my biggest want from BB is device form factor, pkb, hub and ability to run Android apps. Is that too much to ask?
    I actually do think it is possible to implement to the Hub in Android. And of course you can run Android apps in Android. And Android has always supported PKB since the first prototypes (which were all PKB before the iPhone)

    So BB can make what you're asking for.


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
    07-01-15 06:14 PM
  5. ubizmo's Avatar
    So when people talk about security on BB what do they actually mean. Unless you aren't using gmail, yahoo, etc as your email account, your messages are being read by a third party. BB can't secure that. Unless all your communication is via BBM I'm not sure if BB is any more secure.

    Moto X 2014 / Passport
    One aspect of security is whether data can be accessed if the phone falls into the wrong hands. A locked BlackBerry is so far impregnable; I'm not so sure about locked Android devices.

    As for email, you have the same choices on any platform. If you don't want your emails scanned by your email provider, choose one that doesn't do that and pay for the revenue they're giving up by not doing it.
    app_Developer likes this.
    07-01-15 06:19 PM
  6. lnichols's Avatar
    Irresponsible to stockholders, perhaps, but not for those who buy without being aware they're plunking their cash down on a lame duck. Can BB afford to do the "right thing"? Given the Playbook legacy, the odds are against it, but this may be the final straw for a lot of loyalists. Of course, BB has to consider the relative size of the loyalists vs the potential new market an Android BB would open up. Could be an interesting case study in business ethics....
    BlackBerry has never, never had any ethics to the end users. Storm, 9630, PlayBook. All products that were released but quickly obsoleted due to poor engineering and/or business cost cutting decisions.

    Posted via Z30
    07-01-15 06:22 PM
  7. Bonsaibo's Avatar
    BlackBerry needs to disclose their roadmap so that loyal customers can make informed decisions as to whether to stick with BB10 or not. BlackBerry needs to not announce things until they're ready.

    Consumers will buy an Android BlackBerry for security. Consumers don't care about security; that is, given a choice between usability or security, usability wins.

    A full touch slab will solve all of BlackBerry's problems. BlackBerry's problem is lack of marketing and apps.

    BlackBerry will stop making hardware and go software only. BlackBerry will release an Android device with a BlackBerry skin.
    And they say Cybil had numerous personalities!
    07-01-15 06:51 PM
  8. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    While I agree you may indeed be correct we will see dual OSes from BlackBerry, you are omitting two very important details:

    1) While BlackBerry certainly has pumped a lot of money into BB10, it has not proven the success it wished it to be. I argue it is the best OS out there right now, but without customers taking note of it, it just will not be the cash cow that Android already is for numerous companies. If BB10 did continue, I see it only getting the token modest security updates and not much more.

    2) As per the OHA section on fragmentation, no company can sell pure Android phones alongside another OS that utilizes Android in part (as does BB10 with the Android runtime). If BlackBerry decides to go the Android route for it's base OS going forward (and keep BB10 going), you will not see the Android runtime remain on the BB10 system. While BlackBerry certainly can get away without the ability to sideload Android apps, that is a core feature that keeps quite a few users there already.
    Please tell me which companies have had Android as a cash cow? Please..
    lnichols likes this.
    07-01-15 07:41 PM
  9. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Please tell me which companies have had Android as a cash cow? Please..
    Microsoft. They've made billions.
    07-01-15 08:17 PM
  10. southlander's Avatar
    Granted. An advertising write up (testimonial) by BlackBerry. But it does not support the case mentioned... that being that if the "bosses" use Passports, the subordinate employees will desire to have the same phones, fostering a spread of BlackBerry use. In fact the CEO is interviewed and the write up states they "tested" several phones and chose the Passport for their employees. A win nonetheless for BlackBerry. But not exactly kind of maverick marketing that made BlackBerrys desirable years ago.
    07-01-15 08:28 PM
  11. lnichols's Avatar
    Please tell me which companies have had Android as a cash cow? Please..
    You know like HTC that barely made a profit in its handset division. Sony who has to quit the smartphone business with its stellar Android sales. Or even Samsung who watched profits plummet after the iPhone 6 launch. And no Android OEM is making the kind of money Apple is even without the costs of the OS R&D. I'm sure BlackBerry will see similar "success" that all these Android OEM's are seeing with profit. Android will be completely cheap Chinese handsets in a couple years. Disposable devices just like the PC industry has become.

    Posted via Z30
    07-01-15 08:31 PM
  12. cbvinh's Avatar
    And they say Cybil had numerous personalities!
    I'm summarizing this thread...
    07-01-15 08:46 PM
  13. Smitty13's Avatar
    Please tell me which companies have had Android as a cash cow? Please..
    For the research-impaired, I will gladly indulge:

    The HTC Dream which debuted in late 2008 (AKA The T-Mobile G1 and Era G1) was the first commercial smartphone to utilized the Android OS. Despite mixed reviews, a once plummeting stock in the last quarter of 2008 began a dramatic turnaround in 2009 (HTC CORP (2498:Taiwan): Stock Charts - Businessweek). While you can play the semantics game and point to other products in the HTC line that may have contributed to that, the stock paints a pretty clear picture that other products in their tech lineup were not contributing to the bottom line (E.g. Microsoft powered phones 2002-05). It is not purely coincidence that a relatively small notebook manufacturer in 1997 had a plummeting stock price then has their fortunes almost completely reversed with almost direct timing that coincides with the capital derived from their first Android offering which gave them the capital to launch a massive 2009 advertising campaign. Do you remember those HTC laptops that bombed in 2008? Yeah. Neither do I.

    I could of course launch into a variety of other manufacturers which have undercut significant costs by using pure versions of Android that have been tweaked freely (E.g. OnePlus lineup), but I get the feeling you would play the semantics game and claim that significant cost savings would not help classify something as a "cash cow".

    Please...do tell me again how Android hasn't been a "cash cow" at one time or another for some companies? Please...
    07-02-15 01:41 AM
  14. cgk's Avatar
    Please...do tell me again how Android hasn't been a "cash cow" at one time or another for some companies? Please...
    OK but Blackberry was a successful handset maker once.. and isn't now.

    So returning to the question - who is Android a cashcow for in 2015?
    howarmat likes this.
    07-02-15 03:32 AM
  15. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    No. I make sure they aren't. Also easy to tell from UI and performance alone.

    Posted via CB10
    So you only use "built for BlackBerry" apps ?
    07-02-15 05:21 AM
  16. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I was going to respond with exactly the same comment. If this arrangement makes sense to Google, it would make more sense just to buy BB and integrate what they want into Android directly.
    OR (but that's really fantasy IMHO)
    Buy outright BBRY, add GPS to BB10 android player (balance - personal) and focus on the niche "high security" segment (android work).
    They could brute market it.
    07-02-15 05:25 AM
  17. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    So returning to the question - who is Android a cashcow for in 2015?
    If you stick to the real notion of "cash cow" (i.e : sit and cash) : Microsoft with +/- $1Bil. /year in patents.
    If we extend to "generating revenues" (incl. indirect) : Google and Samsung.
    If we push to "unknown but serious competitors" : add some Chinese low-end.

    Which leads to the obvious point (we agree, I guess) : How could BlackBerry in its current shape fight against these monsters or U-turn to another target (low-end) ?
    They can't unless something happens, but we would need to be tea leaves experts to guess what.

    I believe the reflexion has to be started from "BB10 is there to last".
    There's noting - as of date - that can offset this statement ... unless "something [really spectacular] happens".
    07-02-15 05:30 AM
  18. lnichols's Avatar
    For the research-impaired, I will gladly indulge:

    The HTC Dream which debuted in late 2008 (AKA The T-Mobile G1 and Era G1) was the first commercial smartphone to utilized the Android OS. Despite mixed reviews, a once plummeting stock in the last quarter of 2008 began a dramatic turnaround in 2009 (HTC CORP (2498:Taiwan): Stock Charts - Businessweek). While you can play the semantics game and point to other products in the HTC line that may have contributed to that, the stock paints a pretty clear picture that other products in their tech lineup were not contributing to the bottom line (E.g. Microsoft powered phones 2002-05). It is not purely coincidence that a relatively small notebook manufacturer in 1997 had a plummeting stock price then has their fortunes almost completely reversed with almost direct timing that coincides with the capital derived from their first Android offering which gave them the capital to launch a massive 2009 advertising campaign. Do you remember those HTC laptops that bombed in 2008? Yeah. Neither do I.

    I could of course launch into a variety of other manufacturers which have undercut significant costs by using pure versions of Android that have been tweaked freely (E.g. OnePlus lineup), but I get the feeling you would play the semantics game and claim that significant cost savings would not help classify something as a "cash cow".

    Please...do tell me again how Android hasn't been a "cash cow" at one time or another for some companies? Please...
    Look at all the manufacturers who use Android now who are not Chinese. HTC is barely making profit in the smartphone division. Sony who once was a major player is out of the smartphone business. Samsung has even seen ASP's dropping rapidly after the iPhone debuted. So how is that a cash cow for these companies other than Samsung, who is now in an issue where if their Galaxy line sputters their profit plummets? Not only that Microsoft makes $15 per Samsung set sold due to IP theft in the Android OS. You don't think they will go after another new player in the game?

    Posted via Z30
    Superfly_FR and georg4BB like this.
    07-02-15 05:45 AM
  19. cgk's Avatar

    I believe the reflexion has to be started from "BB10 is there to last".
    There's noting - as of date - that can offset this statement ... unless "something [really spectacular] happens".
    There is nothing to last, BB10 is finished - its not dead but its a zombie OS - it has no user take-up, no carriers are interested beyond the bare minimum, there is no functioning ecosystem to speak of, the developer community is tiny and shrinking. No mobile OS ramps after starting weak and then declining - we are at 800,000 units per quarter and dropping - within two quarters, it is likely that tizen will overtake it for fourth place - there is no evidence that third place is enough let along fifth.
    eyesopen1111 likes this.
    07-02-15 07:00 AM
  20. kvndoom's Avatar
    Also I can't imagine people could switch to BB because of these features.

    Apple users won't switch because they've already invested in the Apple eco system and think Android is crap.

    And Android users (or users in general) don't know OS10, so it won't feel natural to them, and they are not interested in the praised "security" of BB.

    The majority of users out there doesn't even know, BB is still producing phones. They are not interested in BB anymore. Even those who once used a bold or curve think BB is dead.

    They have do bring out a pkb phone and do really great advertise. Otherwise this new attempt to get back in the ring is already off the table.
    The thing is, those who do know, also know that the app ecosystem is a desert. Look at BlackBerry's dwindling user base... the OS7/BB10 defectors who left for Android or Apple did so because BlackBerry phones couldn't do what they wanted. I'd bet a lot of them would come back.

    Posted from BlackBerry Classic, Verizon, no camera, 10.3.2.2205
    07-02-15 07:09 AM
  21. ubizmo's Avatar
    It's Boeing's.
    Very expensive and not skinned BB10 AFAIK.
    So, that segment is filled already.
    I don't know much about the Boeing Android phone, but I have the idea that it doesn't have Google Play Services. If BlackBerry is to go with Android, it'll have to do so "all the way", to have Play Services and all the apps that brings to the table. Otherwise there's just no point that I can see. And if they do that, they have to kill the Android runtime in BB10, which essentially means pull the sheet over BB10's face.

    If they can design an unrootable full Android device with a decent BB10 skin, they might have something that has more appeal than BB10 has now. That's setting the bar pretty low, I know, but the point is to move in the direction of growth.

    If they go with a forked Android, I personally can't see them doing much better with it than they've done with BB10.

    To answer the oft-repeated question, Why would anybody buy a BlackBerry Android when there are so many Android phones at all price points?, the answer is: People who are interested in (a) the added security, and (b) the unique UI.

    The added security may not mean much to consumers, but business customers might appreciate it. We have many people here insisting that the BB10 UI is the best there is. If they're right, then there must be some chunk of Android users who'd appreciate it if it didn't mean giving up Google Play.

    I have no idea how much of the BB10 UI can really be implemented in Android. In these discussions I'm just assuming it can be done well, for the sake of the argument. In reality, it might be a mess.
    ayngling and eyesopen1111 like this.
    07-02-15 07:23 AM
  22. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    At the end of the day, the only thing that seems to matter to most is GPS.
    Short: BlackBerry won't get is as they are now.
    IMHO, if you tick BB10 out, then you'd better tick the hardware division.

    Do I ask if OHA is the same for tablets or we're far enough in dreamland ? lol
    07-02-15 08:01 AM
  23. cgk's Avatar

    Do I ask if OHA is the same for tablets or we're far enough in dreamland ? lol
    Yes - which is why the amazon fire is made by a non-OHA ODM.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    07-02-15 08:36 AM
  24. cbvinh's Avatar
    Would it be possible to run BB10 and Android via QNX Hypervisor and still comply with Google's rules so that the Android portion can have Google Services?

    - Hardware or software button to switch between BB10 and Android
    - BB10 and Android running simultaneously or one side can be set to pause
    - BB10 side is exactly as it is now, with the same security as before
    - Android side is Android + BlackBerry Experience or pure Android, but the main thing is that you can run all Android apps

    - User gets security of BB10 when needed
    - User gets Android
    - Effectively the same as carrying a BB10 device and an Android device
    - BB10 user gains additional functionality of having Android when desired, future-proofing against BB10 going away
    - Android user gains BB10 security when needed and trying out BB10 isn't a risk
    - Android user gains keyboard option
    - BlackBerry makes devices that appeal to both BB10 and Android users
    Bbnivende and eyesopen1111 like this.
    07-02-15 01:05 PM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    Would it be possible to run BB10 and Android via QNX Hypervisor and still comply with Google's rules so that the Android portion can have Google Services?

    - Hardware or software button to switch between BB10 and Android
    - BB10 and Android running simultaneously or one side can be set to pause
    - BB10 side is exactly as it is now, with the same security as before
    - Android side is Android + BlackBerry Experience or pure Android, but the main thing is that you can run all Android apps

    - User gets security of BB10 when needed
    - User gets Android
    - Effectively the same as carrying a BB10 device and an Android device
    - BB10 user gains additional functionality of having Android when desired, future-proofing against BB10 going away
    - Android user gains BB10 security when needed and trying out BB10 isn't a risk
    - Android user gains keyboard option
    - BlackBerry makes devices that appeal to both BB10 and Android users
    It has been said by some here that is not permitted. Unfortunately the OHA agreement details are not public and so the only way rules are known or firm gored out is via leaks or when Google sticks it to an OHA member for violating the agreement. Eventually the non-Chinese OEM's of Android are going to need an alternative as they won't be able to make money competing against them and make enough money to satisfy investors. Will be interesting to see if people using Android care when this happens or if they will welcome the cheap hardware with their cheap/free apps and ecosystem.

    Posted via Z30
    07-02-15 01:12 PM
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