09-14-15 05:00 PM
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  1. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Oh, except for the BlackBerry Passport which was released under Chen's leadership And the BlackBerry Leap.

    And the development of BlackBerry10.3. And 10.3.1 and 10.3.2.

    Yeah - he's done zero.
    Everything you mention, except the Leap, was well underway long before Chen came aboard. And I sure hope no one is claiming the Leap a success!

    Posted via CB10
    Allanon89 and BB fan forever like this.
    07-01-15 02:07 AM
  2. BB fan forever's Avatar
    Everything you mention, except the Leap, was well underway long before Chen came aboard. And I sure hope no one is claiming the Leap a success!

    Posted via CB10
    Passport has been worked on for years, 2013 if I'm not mistaken

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-15 02:27 AM
  3. southlander's Avatar
    Thank you for writing the truth! I agree that BlackBerry's problem is not merely about marketing/awareness, even though poor marketing never helps.
    In the US it is truly a lost cause from what I see. You could literally get each adult in the US to listen to all the BlackBerry 10 features. Watch device demos. And have them sign documents acknowledging they are now "aware". Then give them 500.00 and watch them run to the cell phone store and buy iPhones.

    No one knows how to solve this. Advertising something folks already think badly of is just throwing away shareholder money.

    Posted via CB10
    KingOfQwerty likes this.
    07-01-15 02:46 AM
  4. kikorriman's Avatar
    Sad story really,such a solid OS,no advertising here in Europe.Always been a BB user,now switching to WP.
    07-01-15 03:38 AM
  5. dvarnai's Avatar
    Sad story really,such a solid OS,no advertising here in Europe.Always been a BB user,now switching to WP.
    why would you switch? the devices are still work just fine, they are still getting updated, the app situation isnt any worse than on WP, why dont you wait for bb to confirm/deny these rumours first..?
    07-01-15 03:40 AM
  6. vladi's Avatar
    In the US it is truly a lost cause from what I see. You could literally get each adult in the US to listen to all the BlackBerry 10 features. Watch device demos. And have them sign documents acknowledging they are now "aware". Then give them 500.00 and watch them run to the cell phone store and buy iPhones.

    No one knows how to solve this. Advertising something folks already think badly of is just throwing away shareholder money.

    Posted via CB10
    I get what you tried to do but awareness has to come from above and not horizontal line like in your case. People dont care about features, well they do to an extent, but they care more about to follow the pack and not be much different than those who they consider higher ups or more important then themselves. They want to be inside of a cool loop which is determined by the others not them.

    If you have a very competitive environment in some company and all the executives are running Passports while bragging "behind the closed" doors how Passports are helping them do stuff more efficiently while looking cool at the same time, many employees will want to have what they have. And if executive actually have some proprietary app on it that truly makes them more efficient then its a bulls eye as the most competitive employees one would switch to Passports while those who follow the most competitive ones will eventually do the same thing even though if they cant have the access to proprietary app.

    If KK goes on and brags about her Classic and how she loves it I bet thousands will go on and find a way how to get one. And if there is a exclusive content app that allows you to watch some exclusive content and god forbid some promotion that Classic is actually available on TMO, Verzion and ATT I bet hundred thousand will go on and make a purchase.

    Being temporarily denied into exclusive company worked for Facebook, it worked for Apple by making its every gadget "sold out" so you have to wait for a week. Of course you have to have a competitive product or cutting edge product by the end of the day to sustain that and BB already has that.

    People are classic followers and thats the reason why BB got so popular in the first place because people who didnt need email nor they worked for enterprise followed the cool people with Blackberries like their boss or Brad Pitt.
    Allanon89 and KingOfQwerty like this.
    07-01-15 03:56 AM
  7. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    So, this is supposingly a Google + BlackBerry team ?
    If true, I hate that. At the max. extent. Means BlackBerry will be absorbed in months.
    I'll be out, before it even happen. And my (new- to come) business will die.

    With all respect due to OP and his 'friend', I just don't buy it.
    07-01-15 04:13 AM
  8. lnichols's Avatar
    Oh give it a rest, Tizen is all but DEAD in the short term. Do you even hear your own rhetoric lol.

    BB10 has much more traction than Tizen in any market, don't be an *****, please.
    Someone else said it was picking up. I provided a reason why Bb10 isn't going to do the same. Blackberry has zero confidence in consumer space.

    Posted via Z30
    07-01-15 05:59 AM
  9. lnichols's Avatar
    Oh, except for the BlackBerry Passport which was released under Chen's leadership And the BlackBerry Leap.

    And the development of BlackBerry10.3. And 10.3.1 and 10.3.2.

    Yeah - he's done zero.
    How are those selling for them? Putting out devices you know won't sell is effort? Where do they do their market research at?

    Posted via Z30
    07-01-15 06:14 AM
  10. lnichols's Avatar
    Can I also add the obvious here?

    If BlackBerry do go an Android route, there's no reason they would abandon BlackBerry 10. There's every chance they'll simply offer both.

    BlackBerry have invested a lot of time and effort into BB10 - and now with Foxconn making hardware, there's very little cost or risk to continue low volume production of BB10 devices for developing markets and niche high end enterprises.

    Meanwhile, there's nothing stopping them from adding another product to their catalogue in the form of a secure Android offering.

    So let's stop fearing 'the end of BB10' - it's highly unlikely to happen, no matter what happens with Android.

    Most likely Scenario:

    Android - Secured by BlackBerry side by side with devices Powered by BlackBerry 10.
    So BlackBerry doesn't have the resources to do much to BB10 now, but they are suddenly going to come up with the resources to do BB10 and skin and secure Android?

    Posted via Z30
    georg4BB and Bluenoser63 like this.
    07-01-15 06:23 AM
  11. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    If BlackBerry do go an Android route, there's no reason they would abandon BlackBerry 10. There's every chance they'll simply offer both.
    Not in the current state of a) BB10 and b) OHA rules.
    The above can be true IF either :
    1) The mix is Google Android + BB10 without Android Player (FTR : kills 80% of most popular BBWorld apps)
    2) The mix is forked android + BB10 current.

    I'm not sure there's anything to win in the second option. I'm puzzled with 1)
    Hence, I maintain a "no go" unless there's a major evolution in the google/OHA/BlackBerry relationship.
    07-01-15 06:29 AM
  12. early2bed's Avatar
    So if the slider ends up being an Android device then what percentage of your smartphone recommendations will be for a BB10 device?
    07-01-15 06:54 AM
  13. lnichols's Avatar
    Not in the current state of a) BB10 and b) OHA rules.
    The above can be true IF either :
    1) The mix is Google Android + BB10 without Android Player (FTR : kills 80% of most popular BBWorld apps)
    2) The mix is forked android + BB10 current.

    I'm not sure there's anything to win in the second option. I'm puzzled with 1)
    Hence, I maintain a "no go" unless there's a major evolution in the google/OHA/BlackBerry relationship.
    Exactly. How many will stay with a BB10 with no Android runtime, or move to a an Android device skinned like BB10 with no Google Play Services. Those are the options with OHA rules that we know of. BB10 Android runtime has to die if they want Google Play Services, or Google has to change the OHA rules.

    And again, I see why no one would buy an overpriced, under spec'd Android device with a BB10 skin when they can go out and buy a high end Android device, and maybe buy the BlackBerry experience suite. If BlackBerry builds an Android phone, it is a gateway to kill off BB10, and migrate people to the experience suite. And as always, with BlackBerry all the way back to the Mike and Jim days, the silence from Waterloo is deafening!

    Posted via Z30
    07-01-15 07:02 AM
  14. ubizmo's Avatar
    And again, I see why no one would buy an overpriced, under spec'd Android device with a BB10 skin when they can go out and buy a high end Android device, and maybe buy the BlackBerry experience suite. If BlackBerry builds an Android phone, it is a gateway to kill off BB10, and migrate people to the experience suite.
    On the assumption (still far from proven) that BlackBerry can make Android more secure at the hardware level (unrootable, unhackable, etc.), there could be a limited market for such phones, in those sectors that demand that level of security. And they'd still have access to productivity apps, including in-house apps coded for Android.

    For everybody else, there would be the Experience Suite, on the other far-from-proven assumption that the Experience Suite would be close enough to the actual BB10 experience to be appealing.

    I agree that any meaningful foray into Android pretty much entails pulling the plug on BB10. There seems to be no reason to do a FireOS kind of thing.
    early2bed likes this.
    07-01-15 07:19 AM
  15. peter0328's Avatar
    Exactly. How many will stay with a BB10 with no Android runtime, or move to a an Android device skinned like BB10 with no Google Play Services. Those are the options with OHA rules that we know of. BB10 Android runtime has to die if they want Google Play Services, or Google has to change the OHA rules.

    And again, I see why no one would buy an overpriced, under spec'd Android device with a BB10 skin when they can go out and buy a high end Android device, and maybe buy the BlackBerry experience suite. If BlackBerry builds an Android phone, it is a gateway to kill off BB10, and migrate people to the experience suite. And as always, with BlackBerry all the way back to the Mike and Jim days, the silence from Waterloo is deafening!

    Posted via Z30
    I'd stick with BlackBerry 10 with no Android runtime. I don't use it anyway.

    Posted via CB10
    MarsupilamiX likes this.
    07-01-15 07:23 AM
  16. ubizmo's Avatar
    I'd stick with BlackBerry 10 with no Android runtime. I don't use it anyway.
    The number of people interested in BB10 as it is is already minuscule. The subset who, like yourself, wouldn't miss the Android runtime, is far smaller.


    So BlackBerry doesn't have the resources to do much to BB10 now, but they are suddenly going to come up with the resources to do BB10 and skin and secure Android?
    I doubt they have the resources to do both, and in any case the OHA rules forbid it, unless the Android runtime is taken out of BB10.

    It really does seem that if BlackBerry is going to make a go of Android, they have to let go of BB10. There's no middle road, except for doing a forked Android, which really doesn't make much sense to me.
    07-01-15 07:34 AM
  17. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    On the assumption (still far from proven) that BlackBerry can make Android more secure at the hardware level (unrootable, unhackable, etc.).
    It's Boeing's.
    Very expensive and not skinned BB10 AFAIK.
    So, that segment is filled already.



    Posted via CB10
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    07-01-15 08:36 AM
  18. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I'd stick with BlackBerry 10 with no Android runtime. I don't use it anyway.

    Posted via CB10
    You probably use it but you don't know, bc the apps you use come from BBWorld which is filled with Android ports in BB10 disguise.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-15 08:38 AM
  19. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Seriously, you're going to call me a liar instead of just doing the simplest of Google searches? Save the apology, not worth anything.
    Well, I apologize anyway, lol. BTW, saying I don't believe you is not the same as calling you a liar.

    But thanks for the article, interesting read. Seems everyone is racing for the bottom when it comes to the price of phones. Great for us as consumers but not necessarily great for some OEMs. I had written off Tizen lately, I'll have to take another look at them.
    p1800nut likes this.
    07-01-15 08:46 AM
  20. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Someone else said it was picking up. I provided a reason why Bb10 isn't going to do the same. Blackberry has zero confidence in consumer space.

    Posted via Z30
    Well, I was wrong anyway. Tizen has life after all, that'll teach me to ignore an area of the industry.

    However, I wouldn't say the adoption of Tizen is a consumer confidence issue, more of a pricing issue, personally.
    07-01-15 08:51 AM
  21. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    So BlackBerry doesn't have the resources to do much to BB10 now, but they are suddenly going to come up with the resources to do BB10 and skin and secure Android?

    Posted via Z30
    People don't get that. They will be spending more money in trying to secure and skin Android than continuing with BB10. And no one is going to buy a BlackBerry Android phone when there are so many more choices out there.

    This looks like a consumer play and not an enterprise play which means they have lost the enterprise focus.
    07-01-15 09:05 AM
  22. lnichols's Avatar
    On the assumption (still far from proven) that BlackBerry can make Android more secure at the hardware level (unrootable, unhackable, etc.), there could be a limited market for such phones, in those sectors that demand that level of security. And they'd still have access to productivity apps, including in-house apps coded for Android.

    For everybody else, there would be the Experience Suite, on the other far-from-proven assumption that the Experience Suite would be close enough to the actual BB10 experience to be appealing.

    I agree that any meaningful foray into Android pretty much entails pulling the plug on BB10. There seems to be no reason to do a FireOS kind of thing.
    Yes I agree that businesses may want that, my view was based on consumer, should have clarified. That said if they spend that time on Android, BB10 will be neglected, and dead, if it isn't already. BlackBerry doesn't have the resources or talent to do both.

    Posted via Z30
    07-01-15 09:31 AM
  23. lnichols's Avatar
    People don't get that. They will be spending more money in trying to secure and skin Android than continuing with BB10. And no one is going to buy a BlackBerry Android phone when there are so many more choices out there.

    This looks like a consumer play and not an enterprise play which means they have lost the enterprise focus.
    But Chen says Enterprise is the focus.... this is BlackBerry's problem, they make absolute statements of goals and trajectories, puss off customers and developers with those statements, but then you look at what they are doing and it contradicts everything. Releasing a single Android device is the likely the final nail in the coffin for Bb10. Their won't be enough business to sustain the platform on corporate or consumer. They won't be able to maintain two OS systems, sorry three since they refuse to kill off BBOS. Chen has been telling developers to focus on Android, and offering workshops on securing Android apps. If that doesn't tell you people that think BB10 will be around for the long haul what his plan is, then you will be very disappointed in the near future. He is riding BB10 until the alternative is ready, but laying the ground work for the alternative and not pushing what he has now. Releasing Meh devices or freakish form factors that won't sell much but keep Wall Street at bay while he works behind the scenes.

    Posted via Z30
    07-01-15 09:41 AM
  24. Smitty13's Avatar
    Can I also add the obvious here?

    If BlackBerry do go an Android route, there's no reason they would abandon BlackBerry 10. There's every chance they'll simply offer both.

    BlackBerry have invested a lot of time and effort into BB10 - and now with Foxconn making hardware, there's very little cost or risk to continue low volume production of BB10 devices for developing markets and niche high end enterprises.

    Meanwhile, there's nothing stopping them from adding another product to their catalogue in the form of a secure Android offering.

    So let's stop fearing 'the end of BB10' - it's highly unlikely to happen, no matter what happens with Android.

    Most likely Scenario:

    Android - Secured by BlackBerry side by side with devices Powered by BlackBerry 10.
    While I agree you may indeed be correct we will see dual OSes from BlackBerry, you are omitting two very important details:

    1) While BlackBerry certainly has pumped a lot of money into BB10, it has not proven the success it wished it to be. I argue it is the best OS out there right now, but without customers taking note of it, it just will not be the cash cow that Android already is for numerous companies. If BB10 did continue, I see it only getting the token modest security updates and not much more.

    2) As per the OHA section on fragmentation, no company can sell pure Android phones alongside another OS that utilizes Android in part (as does BB10 with the Android runtime). If BlackBerry decides to go the Android route for it's base OS going forward (and keep BB10 going), you will not see the Android runtime remain on the BB10 system. While BlackBerry certainly can get away without the ability to sideload Android apps, that is a core feature that keeps quite a few users there already.
    07-01-15 09:42 AM
  25. Bbnivende's Avatar
    They may have a way to preserve runtime on their BES BB10 phones while making Android PKB phones for consumers. In this case they could probably sell more than 900,000 phones per quarter.

    Maybe...

    Personally, I would prefer a high end consumer BB10 VKB.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-15 09:52 AM
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