06-29-10 02:57 PM
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  1. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    I think part of the issue is, every "new" Blackberry isn't really all that new, just a small upgrade from a phone/model that is already out there. And when you have been using a BB for so long or so many years, and want to upgrade to something different, the new phone you have to choose from really isn't different at all. Just a new color, or a new trackpad, or alittle more memory, but still the same phone.

    I think a lot of "consumer" users are thinking, "that other phone looks cool, different, new, can do this/that, and my next choice for a BB uograde still pretty much does what my year and a half BB does, with nothing really new." Ohh wait, I can now get the Bold in white. And heaven forbid I want a new touchscreen, it's storm 1 or storm 2. And, the recyling of old phones and using a new model number, color, etc... Gets old.

    Just my $0.02.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-03-10 10:20 PM
  2. Masahiro's Avatar
    Unlike RIM who has, what is it 10 dif models of a full QWERTY.
    That's my point... RIM offers many different types of models to choose from, unlike the Android that mostly only has touch screen devices, and I cannot stand touch screen devices unless they have SurePress.
    06-04-10 12:31 AM
  3. PensHockey's Avatar
    Seriousely?
    QWERTY
    SurePress
    T9
    SurePress flip
    Touch screen
    and upcoming:
    QWERTY flip
    Touch slide
    Bold 9700
    Bold 9650
    Bold 9000
    Tour 9630
    Curve 8900
    Curve 8520/8530
    Curve 83XX
    Curve 8350i
    and the whole 88XX line up.
    ALL QWERTY.

    Tell me what is the differance between these phones? Beside more memory?
    Putting a new keyboard and a touch pad instead of the trackball is not that revolutionary.

    Yes the Pearl is an awesome phone to add to BB. Yes they need a touch screen.

    But there best attack on Apple/Android/HTC is a slider and a flip phone????? I hope and once again..I HOPE they are keeping the S3 top secret because its going to blow people away.
    06-05-10 11:37 AM
  4. PensHockey's Avatar
    That's my point... RIM offers many different types of models to choose from, unlike the Android that mostly only has touch screen devices, and I cannot stand touch screen devices unless they have SurePress.
    There is that group of people who dont like Touch Screens, but thats where technology is headed. Bigger screen, thinner, more memory, faster, clearer. If people didnt want touch screens apple would have folded a long time ago.
    06-05-10 11:41 AM
  5. tumer's Avatar
    I think this android thing is overblown if you put a OS on 50 different devices wouldn't it look like its growing fast it wouldn't matter what device if nokia what change there OS over night it would become huge just like that any one agree
    06-05-10 01:07 PM
  6. evilhunter101's Avatar
    There is that group of people who dont like Touch Screens, but thats where technology is headed. Bigger screen, thinner, more memory, faster, clearer. If people didnt want touch screens apple would have folded a long time ago.
    Highlight of wall of text: Long story short, yes, Blackberry does stand a chance in general. And no, Blackberry does not stand a chance against those phones with ridiculously high specs, especially from a touch screen standpoint.

    You are really reaching here. There are tons of people that don't want touch screens. You might, they don't. It's that simple. I know tons of people that have BBs not because of their OS, or because of push services, or because of battery life. They have BBs because of the keyboards. It also varies by region. Where I live, oil field work dominates. With that said, a touch screen phone of any kind would not make it out here. It has been tried, and it has been proven a failure. Even iPhones were slow to take here. Sure the young non-working class still has those type of phones, but the majority of the population uses keyboard devices of some kind simply because of our environment. Transplant this population to a more lenient/forgiving environment and I suspect touchscreen use would be (much) higher.

    Now, have you ever thought the consumer side of BB still exists simply because not all people want touchscreens? *gasp* Wow shocking isn't it. To put it extremely simply, the portion of consumers that don't want touchscreens combined with the portion that actually likes SurePress is more than likely large enough to sustain RIM's consumer activities. I am in this group of consumers and I can say we don't want high-end battery killers or top-of-the-line apps. We just want what we have now, but a little faster and more reliable. Period. From what I've seen this is exactly what BB6 is supposed to bring to the table which equals tons of happy regular BB owners and some not so happy CB users and abusers.

    Also, if you're looking at the users on CrackBerry for your examples of consumer trends then you'll never know the facts. 9 out of 10 people I know with BBs don't use forums/blogs like CrackBerry. They know they exist, they just don't seem to care. An even larger amount of people with any phone kind, say 49 out of 50, also don't seem to care. I suspect the same goes for most of the users on CB, which means, we (users on CB) are the minority. I suspect you've heard the saying that "for every dissatisfied customer there are 10 satisfied" right? Same applies here on CB. We read lots of threads about people unhappy with RIM, and a multitude of threads from Civic lol, but that is the nature of humanity. Those who are unhappy will always be louder/more noticeable than those who are happy.

    Some people just can't seem to grasp the concept that BB is doing just fine even without all the flash. Couple that with the fact that BB is expanding outside the North American market and you have a nicely working marketing plan, which means there is no reason to change it and therefore, we shouldn't expect major changes. For those who want push email plus all the flair, I'd say go Android, and download K9 (I think that's what it's called or K9mail) and it will give you relatively instant push-like email on all of your accounts. POP3, IMAP, and Exchange are supported by K9.

    Side note: I believe a lot of you are looking at the argument wrong. Instead of saying "Why isn't RIM competing with Apple and Google?", you should say "RIM has the keyboard market relatively locked down and Apple & Google are fighting to dominate the touchscreen market."

    To that person that said email is losing importance and is somewhat being replaced by RSS feeds (or something along those lines), I agree with you. I believe this is why RIM bought Viigo, no? And also why RSS feeds are supposedly built into BB6.

    /rant

    P.S. at least technically this in't a thread-jack since I stuck to the topics lol
    06-05-10 01:29 PM
  7. evilhunter101's Avatar
    I think this android thing is overblown if you put a OS on 50 different devices wouldn't it look like its growing fast it wouldn't matter what device if nokia what change there OS over night it would become huge just like that any one agree
    I can see your point here and agree to an extent. I only have to include that Android, though on many different devices, is a good OS and must be to even have seen as much adoption from manufactures and consumers alike. Regardless of method of calculation, Android=success in my book.
    06-05-10 01:32 PM
  8. grahamf's Avatar
    Bold 9700
    Bold 9650
    Bold 9000
    Tour 9630
    Curve 8900
    Curve 8520/8530
    Curve 83XX
    Curve 8350i
    and the whole 88XX line up.
    ALL QWERTY.

    Tell me what is the differance between these phones? Beside more memory?
    Putting a new keyboard and a touch pad instead of the trackball is not that revolutionary.

    Yes the Pearl is an awesome phone to add to BB. Yes they need a touch screen.

    But there best attack on Apple/Android/HTC is a slider and a flip phone????? I hope and once again..I HOPE they are keeping the S3 top secret because its going to blow people away.
    They may be the same formfa

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-05-10 01:52 PM
  9. grahamf's Avatar
    Bold 9700
    Bold 9650
    Bold 9000
    Tour 9630
    Curve 8900
    Curve 8520/8530
    Curve 83XX
    Curve 8350i
    and the whole 88XX line up.
    ALL QWERTY.

    Tell me what is the differance between these phones? Beside more memory?
    Putting a new keyboard and a touch pad instead of the trackball is not that revolutionary.

    Yes the Pearl is an awesome phone to add to BB. Yes they need a touch screen.

    But there best attack on Apple/Android/HTC is a slider and a flip phone????? I hope and once again..I HOPE they are keeping the S3 top secret because its going to blow people away.
    They may be the same formfactor but they are significantly different purposes, and some are rather old. I'm on my phone so I can't go into detail but:
    Bold9000: first 3G of the current series
    Curve8350i: new iDEN phone to replace the 7xxx series one
    Bold series: higher end
    Curve series: cheaper lower end.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-05-10 01:55 PM
  10. Masahiro's Avatar
    There is that group of people who dont like Touch Screens, but thats where technology is headed. Bigger screen, thinner, more memory, faster, clearer. If people didnt want touch screens apple would have folded a long time ago.
    Bigger screens drain the battery faster, and leads to bulkier devices. Why do you think the Pearl is so popular? Thinner, more memory, faster, clearer... Vague, but still applicable to BlackBerrys. Just look at the Storm2: It's thinner, has double the memory and therefore runs faster (and "clearer"?).

    You're also assuming that everyone buys iPhones simply because it's touch screen. What about the good browser or the thousands of apps? What if Apple were to introduce a slide-out full keyboard version of the iPhone that's identical in every other way?
    06-05-10 04:31 PM
  11. 754boy's Avatar
    BB doesn't stand a chance in my opinion, at least not in the general consumer market. Business maybe. But if I haven't seen anything mind blowing from RIM by the time my contract is up in December, then I'm most likely going to defect to a competitor.
    06-05-10 05:38 PM
  12. PensHockey's Avatar
    Evilhunter!!!
    Thank you for staying on topic.

    Everything you said is correct. I agree that BB has the keyboard on lock. Alot of people love keyboards. If people didnt like keyboards BB would have closed down.

    In the scope of moving forward with technology BB hasnt showed me that they tend to get on the bus. Its more like they are getting on the short bus.

    They will always have ther fan base of people who love BB and love keyboards.

    Maybe i should change my question to "Does Blackberry stand a chance in the next few years to compete in the touchscreen market?"

    Maybe they will just stick to QWERTY cause it works for them and has worked for them for years.

    Its still just hard to think that the up and coming devices are,
    HTC Evo
    Apple 4G
    Motorola Shadow
    and then Blackberry has a slider and a flip phone.
    06-05-10 07:54 PM
  13. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Its still just hard to think that the up and coming devices are,
    HTC Evo
    Apple 4G
    Motorola Shadow
    and then Blackberry has a slider and a flip phone.
    The evo is a nice phone technically, but it is just too big for most people to want to carry around for the few hours that its battery lasts, personally if I wanted to use 4g I would much rather use a dongle for that and then use a more realistic phone the rest of the time.

    The new iphone is clearly going to do well, but given that it is still the same form factor as the previous ones it seems most suited to winning back people who left for higher specced android phones and keeping existing iphone users happy.

    Given the multiple rumors about this codename I am going to assume it is the next moto droid on vzw and while it should still sell well, this one will not be as big as the first model because the android market grows more crowded on a daily basis and there's no way that vzw are going to spend so much on promotion this time with them already having the likes of the moto droid and the htc incredible already.

    You casually dismiss the slider and the flip, but the crucial thing about both of those devices is that they are different form factors so rim are trying to expand their market rather than simply bringing out something to keep their existing users happy, although certainly the great combo of one of their keyboards with a nice touchscreen certainly won't hurt things there either.

    Now clearly rim still need to do more and os6 won't address all the issues e.g. they should be dropping costs to developers because the going for quality vs quantity isn't a valid argument if your rivals do actually have quality too.

    The other main thing for rim is dealing with people's preconceptions e.g. you get so many people saying how terrible it is that their screen resolution isn't high enough and yet you look at the recent pictures and video of the slider and the reality is that it looks damned good.
    06-06-10 11:31 AM
  14. PensHockey's Avatar
    The evo is a nice phone technically, but it is just too big for most people to want to carry around for the few hours that its battery lasts, personally if I wanted to use 4g I would much rather use a dongle for that and then use a more realistic phone the rest of the time.

    The new iphone is clearly going to do well, but given that it is still the same form factor as the previous ones it seems most suited to winning back people who left for higher specced android phones and keeping existing iphone users happy.

    Given the multiple rumors about this codename I am going to assume it is the next moto droid on vzw and while it should still sell well, this one will not be as big as the first model because the android market grows more crowded on a daily basis and there's no way that vzw are going to spend so much on promotion this time with them already having the likes of the moto droid and the htc incredible already.

    You casually dismiss the slider and the flip, but the crucial thing about both of those devices is that they are different form factors so rim are trying to expand their market rather than simply bringing out something to keep their existing users happy, although certainly the great combo of one of their keyboards with a nice touchscreen certainly won't hurt things there either.

    Now clearly rim still need to do more and os6 won't address all the issues e.g. they should be dropping costs to developers because the going for quality vs quantity isn't a valid argument if your rivals do actually have quality too.

    The other main thing for rim is dealing with people's preconceptions e.g. you get so many people saying how terrible it is that their screen resolution isn't high enough and yet you look at the recent pictures and video of the slider and the reality is that it looks damned good.
    True. I am more on the line talking about specs. If i could get the Evo with all the crap in it from the camera to HDMI out big screen all that, and have it run BB 5.0 or 6.0 i would do it right now. I love the BB OS but the phones physically havnt impressed me that much.
    06-06-10 12:12 PM
  15. subtech's Avatar
    Getting email instantly does not make it "push email". That's only half the point of push email. The other half is being able to receive messages and notifications from multiple sources with little impact on battery life because it all gets "pushed" to your phone by a NOC.
    You're correct, push has two benefits.

    1) Notifications get received as soon as they're sent
    2) Battery savings because the phone isn't constantly polling an inbox in the cloud.

    The problem is the gap is quickly closing on Rim's advantage. My first Blackberry, an 8700, had an email experience that was in a completely different UNIVERSE than any other device on the market. Now, my Droid experience is only a SLIGHT step down from the BB. Like I said, Gmail (important stuff) gets sent instantly, and the others (not as important) have a short delay. It's only a matter of time until Android closes the (already minuscule) gap further. Seeing as this is RIM's bread and butter, I'd say that's a major point of concern.

    As for the "left behind" comments, the whole point I was trying to make was that not everyone cares about high-end specs. A lot of people just want a phone that's actually good at communication. You don't need a 1ghz processor or 8mp camera to chat with someone.
    Now you don't need a 1ghz cpu and an 8mp to communicate well, HOWEVER, I'd argue that if done correctly, those specs (and other high end one) will allow you to communicate BETTER.

    First, the content and methods of communication can be richer. We're talking Qik video, Apple's new facetime video chat, or Skype to interact. Film in 720p HD, take pics in 8mp or 12mp, and edit both on the device. (Have you seen iMovie on the new iPhone?)

    Second, with more powerful specs, YOU can communicate more efficiently. Try running a web browser with 6 windows open, Twitter, Facebook, and Google Maps. The Cortex A8 on the Droid eats those tasks for breakfast. The low Ram and slower processors on the BB means I can't do what I need to do WHEN I need to do it compared to other devices.

    Perhaps it's my definition of "communicating", but it goes beyond email and txt. The word means any available avenue in which I can send or receive information. Hence, it means editing a blog post, filming on HD and sending to a friend, uploading a file to a server with FTP, having access to Dropbox and synching files in the background, having RSS feeds, tweets, and Facebook notifications coming in. A snapdragon on board will make all of that a much more pleasant experience.

    Now I FULLY understand that people have preferences to form factor, OS layout, and other unique considerations. I always believe that the best device is the one that's BEST for you. That said, it's pretty obvious that an increasing technological disparity will not be any help to RIM moving forward.
    06-08-10 01:21 PM
  16. subtech's Avatar
    Bigger screens drain the battery faster, and leads to bulkier devices. Why do you think the Pearl is so popular? Thinner, more memory, faster, clearer... Vague, but still applicable to BlackBerrys. Just look at the Storm2: It's thinner, has double the memory and therefore runs faster (and "clearer"?).
    I'd just like to mention that in terms of "bigger, bulkier devices", the Bold 9000 is one of the most loved phones among BB fans. In fact, many people wish they'd return to (or offer) a bigger form factor design.
    06-08-10 02:11 PM
  17. Masahiro's Avatar
    I'd just like to mention that in terms of "bigger, bulkier devices", the Bold 9000 is one of the most loved phones among BB fans. In fact, many people wish they'd return to (or offer) a bigger form factor design.
    Good point, but not all BlackBerrys should follow in the tradition of the 9000. While a lot of people loved the size of the bold, there are also a lot of people that didn't like the size of the bold. The point is, bigger is not always better.
    06-08-10 02:43 PM
  18. holdene1's Avatar
    I love how people still use the "i just cant see a CEO walking into a meeting with an Iphone" Look people 10 years ago, 5 years ago even that was the case. As the birth date of your average CEO moves into the 60's and 70's you will without a doubt see having an Iphone type of device be the norm. I can tell you for a fact that the CEO of one of the largest companies in the world based right here in America, USES an IPHONE and not a Blackberry like everyone else in the company does. Senior level managers have the option of using the Iphone or a Blackberry in this company so the that argument on if a Iphone is unprofessional is not gonna hold up anymore.
    06-08-10 02:54 PM
  19. Masahiro's Avatar
    You're correct, push has two benefits.

    1) Notifications get received as soon as they're sent
    2) Battery savings because the phone isn't constantly polling an inbox in the cloud.

    The problem is the gap is quickly closing on Rim's advantage. My first Blackberry, an 8700, had an email experience that was in a completely different UNIVERSE than any other device on the market. Now, my Droid experience is only a SLIGHT step down from the BB. Like I said, Gmail (important stuff) gets sent instantly, and the others (not as important) have a short delay. It's only a matter of time until Android closes the (already minuscule) gap further. Seeing as this is RIM's bread and butter, I'd say that's a major point of concern.
    The push services extends beyond just e-mail though. I can receive my e-mails, stay signed onto MSN (if it doesn't disconnect me for some reason), Gtalk, BBM and receive Twitter updates with minimal impact on battery life. With the new OS6, this same server architecture can be utilized (to a better extent than the current implementation) to enhance our web-browsing experience too.

    There was also a post a while ago about RIM allowing app developers to take advantage of the BIS network, but I haven't seen much come out of that yet. It could be my apps though.

    Now you don't need a 1ghz cpu and an 8mp to communicate well, HOWEVER, I'd argue that if done correctly, those specs (and other high end one) will allow you to communicate BETTER.

    First, the content and methods of communication can be richer. We're talking Qik video, Apple's new facetime video chat, or Skype to interact. Film in 720p HD, take pics in 8mp or 12mp, and edit both on the device. (Have you seen iMovie on the new iPhone?)
    I have no interest in video chat, but perhaps Apple can hit it off. Who knows... Japan has had video chatting for a while, but it has never reached the main stream. I just can't imagine video chatting with someone in a public wifi hotspot (at home, I'd just use my laptop), with very little privacy. I'm sure my chatting partner wouldn't want their bedroom on display. But again, who knows...

    By the way, I don't see what video editing has to do with communication. An 8MP camera will also be a bit excessive if it's just to send photos to someone. The file size would be massive.

    Second, with more powerful specs, YOU can communicate more efficiently. Try running a web browser with 6 windows open, Twitter, Facebook, and Google Maps. The Cortex A8 on the Droid eats those tasks for breakfast. The low Ram and slower processors on the BB means I can't do what I need to do WHEN I need to do it compared to other devices.
    Well, we don't have tabs for our native browser yet, but I've tried opening almost all my apps on my phone before and experienced little slowdown. I suspect apps like Google Maps don't run to their fullest extent while it's in the background. This is evidenced by the fact that the GPS cursor doesn't move or update while the application is in the background.

    Perhaps it's my definition of "communicating", but it goes beyond email and txt. The word means any available avenue in which I can send or receive information. Hence, it means editing a blog post, filming on HD and sending to a friend, uploading a file to a server with FTP, having access to Dropbox and synching files in the background, having RSS feeds, tweets, and Facebook notifications coming in. A snapdragon on board will make all of that a much more pleasant experience.
    I don't do, or plan on doing any of that, so it's a non-issue for me. I would expect that push infrastructure would be great for RSS feeds (now becoming a native part of the OS for 6.0), tweets and Facebook updates.

    Now I FULLY understand that people have preferences to form factor, OS layout, and other unique considerations. I always believe that the best device is the one that's BEST for you. That said, it's pretty obvious that an increasing technological disparity will not be any help to RIM moving forward.
    I'm sorry, but I believe this section is a little contradictory. People do have preferences to form factor, OS layout and other unique considerations. Technology and high-end specs are just one of the unique considerations that is perhaps overemphasized on a smartphone fansite such as this one. We are the tech geeks compared to the average consumer (what kind of average Joe would really care about the details of push-email?), so we would have a greater tendency to focus on what's behind the phones we have.
    Last edited by Masahiro; 06-08-10 at 03:06 PM.
    06-08-10 03:01 PM
  20. subtech's Avatar
    The push services extends beyond just e-mail though. I can receive my e-mails, stay signed onto MSN (if it doesn't disconnect me for some reason), Gtalk, BBM and receive Twitter updates with minimal impact on battery life. With the new OS6, this same server architecture can be utilized (to a better extent than the current implementation) to enhance our web-browsing experience too.
    RIM's push service is an information pipeline. It's a very secure and efficient implementation (When the NOC isn't down), one that's better than the competition at the moment. I feel that it's losing ground quite quickly though. Very few people care about the technical underpinnings of a system, they care about the user experience. While the tech advantages of RIM's system are becoming more debatable by the day, I'd say it's less debatable that their user experience has been eclipsed in many areas.

    There was also a post a while ago about RIM allowing app developers to take advantage of the BIS network, but I haven't seen much come out of that yet. It could be my apps though.
    I found info on RIM's site about an SDK that integrates push in apps, so it looks like it's in the dev's hands.

    I have no interest in video chat, but perhaps Apple can hit it off. Who knows... Japan has had video chatting for a while, but it has never reached the main stream. I just can't imagine video chatting with someone in a public wifi hotspot (at home, I'd just use my laptop), with very little privacy. I'm sure my chatting partner wouldn't want their bedroom on display. But again, who knows...
    I'm actually more interested in the results of pushing the technology. Imagine what type of bandwidth / processor optimization techniques Apple had to figure out to get full duplex video chat on a cell phone. It's the tech and the desire to push the boundaries that will give way to other unforeseen features in future handsets. For example, I recently heard that there are some awesome opportunities for front facing cams, such as gestures (for driving) and such. I like this attitude more than, "Add a trackpad and double the ram"

    By the way, I don't see what video editing has to do with communication. An 8MP camera will also be a bit excessive if it's just to send photos to someone. The file size would be massive.
    Poor wording on my part. Just saying that if I want to edit awesome movie clips on my phone (while on vacation say), that's a pretty awesome way to communicate. Having the power (as in specs) to do so, is pretty impressive. As far as the 8mp or 12mp cam shooting massive file size pics, it's like an umbrella; I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Every phone I've had with a camera allows you to set the mpx output size in the settings. So I'll go ahead and take 2mp pics with my 8mp, and shoot an occasional 8mp when I need to.


    Well, we don't have tabs for our native browser yet, but I've tried opening almost all my apps on my phone before and experienced little slowdown. I suspect apps like Google Maps don't run to their fullest extent while it's in the background. This is evidenced by the fact that the GPS cursor doesn't move or update while the application is in the background.
    As a BB user for over 5 years, and now a recent Android convert, I can tell you the the web browsing AND app experience (in my opinion) is far more advanced. We'll have to wait to see how RIM's new webkit browser holds up against the competition, because right now BB isn't on a level playing field. I've heard great things about Torch mobile, so I'm hopeful they'll have finally caught up.

    As far as apps, Google maps runs like greased lighting on the Droid. Whether it's because of more ram, a faster processor, or because google tweaked it for their baby is of little consequence. All I care about from a consumer standpoint is it runs and zooms almost instantaneously. It's a noticeable leap forward from my experience with a Tour and Storm.

    I don't do, or plan on doing any of that, so it's a non-issue for me. I would expect that push infrastructure would be great for RSS feeds (now becoming a native part of the OS for 6.0), tweets and Facebook updates.
    And that's fine, not everyone needs all that functionality.

    I'm sorry, but I believe this section is a little contradictory. People do have preferences to form factor, OS layout and other unique considerations. Technology and high-end specs are just one of the unique considerations that is perhaps overemphasized on a smartphone fansite such as this one. We are the tech geeks compared to the average consumer (what kind of average Joe would really care about the details of push-email?), so we would have a greater tendency to focus on what's behind the phones we have.
    We're definitely more techie than the majority of users. (We've been debating for over a week now!) I do think that these things we've been discussing are important to the common joe, it's just that we're able to articulate things better. So getting through a day without a charge is important to a consumer, and they'll make a choice on a BB because of their rep for great battery life. We'll make the same choice, except the only difference is we understand the reason for the better batt life, the underlying push tech.
    06-09-10 10:34 AM
  21. Masahiro's Avatar
    RIM's push service is an information pipeline. It's a very secure and efficient implementation (When the NOC isn't down), one that's better than the competition at the moment. I feel that it's losing ground quite quickly though. Very few people care about the technical underpinnings of a system, they care about the user experience.
    You may be correct in the sense that very few people care about the technical stuff in regards to push. However, what people do know is that BlackBerrys generally have very good battery life for some reason. They also know that they get their messages instantly 99% of the time (minus the random and rare NOC outage).

    As far as the 8mp or 12mp cam shooting massive file size pics, it's like an umbrella; I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
    So herein lies a fundamental difference between you and I. I simply don't like having features or programs on my phone that just sit there, unused. It feels like it's taking up memory, space, processing power, or even increasing the cost of the device. In other words, I'd rather have a phone that has a lot of overall functionality than a phone with a few features that are very situational.

    Situational features include things like the front facing camera (for reasons I've already listed), 8MP cameras for taking gigantic photos with (I rarely have any use for the phone camera in the first place), a fast processor that is overkill for anything other than gaming, a high-resolution display that is primarily good for watching movies, etc...

    Not saying it's a bad thing to have all those features, but I really don't put much value on them compared to features that are used constantly on a daily basis. These features include things like good battery life, SureType (my primary portrait keyboard), SurePress, full qwerty physical keyboards, convenience keys, LEDs (I know some Androids have them too), etc...

    It would be an easy choice for me if I were forced to choose between having a super large, crisp screen with a fast processor and an 8MP camera, or a set of keys on the sides of the phone...

    As you can imagine, by the same token my app selection on my Storm2 are limited in number. Mostly everything else can be accomplished through the browser.

    As a BB user for over 5 years, and now a recent Android convert, I can tell you the the web browsing AND app experience (in my opinion) is far more advanced. We'll have to wait to see how RIM's new webkit browser holds up against the competition, because right now BB isn't on a level playing field. I've heard great things about Torch mobile, so I'm hopeful they'll have finally caught up.

    As far as apps, Google maps runs like greased lighting on the Droid. Whether it's because of more ram, a faster processor, or because google tweaked it for their baby is of little consequence. All I care about from a consumer standpoint is it runs and zooms almost instantaneously. It's a noticeable leap forward from my experience with a Tour and Storm.
    I won't argue against this. Google Maps is very sluggish on my Storm2. I just don't use it often enough for it to become a major gripe though. I also suspect it has to do with me being on EDGE. The arguments regarding the native BB browser is also a dead horse.
    06-09-10 07:31 PM
  22. subtech's Avatar
    You may be correct in the sense that very few people care about the technical stuff in regards to push. However, what people do know is that BlackBerrys generally have very good battery life for some reason. They also know that they get their messages instantly 99% of the time (minus the random and rare NOC outage).
    Yeah I believe I mentioned that in the last paragraph of my previous post.

    So herein lies a fundamental difference between you and I. I simply don't like having features or programs on my phone that just sit there, unused. It feels like it's taking up memory, space, processing power, or even increasing the cost of the device. In other words, I'd rather have a phone that has a lot of overall functionality than a phone with a few features that are very situational.
    A feature or program that isn't used consumes no resources. A device that "has a lot of overall functionality" is one that has all the bells and whistles I've been mentioning. It seems to me that an iPhone or Android phone has MORE overall functionality than a Blackberry. I'd say "few features that are situational" sounds like a sold communication device that emails and txts while
    "overall functionality" is a device with thousands of apps.

    Situational features include things like the front facing camera (for reasons I've already listed), 8MP cameras for taking gigantic photos with (I rarely have any use for the phone camera in the first place), a fast processor that is overkill for anything other than gaming, a high-resolution display that is primarily good for watching movies, etc...
    A faster processor positively impacts every aspect of a device except battery life. Multitasking, web viewing, maps, taking photos, etc. Anything that requires clock cycles is finished faster. I'm not sure if you've played around with a Droid Incredible, but every app literally opens instantaneously. It's amazing.

    Not saying it's a bad thing to have all those features, but I really don't put much value on them compared to features that are used constantly on a daily basis. These features include things like good battery life, SureType (my primary portrait keyboard), SurePress, full qwerty physical keyboards, convenience keys, LEDs (I know some Androids have them too), etc...
    Absolutely go with what works for you. There are a million things I love about my old BBs, including what you just mentioned.

    It would be an easy choice for me if I were forced to choose between having a super large, crisp screen with a fast processor and an 8MP camera, or a set of keys on the sides of the phone...
    You'd definitely be in the minority then. Most people want a super snappy device with a giant shiny screen and super camera on the back. This is what concerns me about RIM. HTC can add 3 buttons on the side of their new phone, but it's not like RIM can throw in a new OS and totally new hardware overnight. Simply put, all of the advantages of a BB are getting eaten away bite by bite. If there's a demand for more buttons, Moto and HTC will add them on in a second.

    As you can imagine, by the same token my app selection on my Storm2 are limited in number. Mostly everything else can be accomplished through the browser.
    Which must be horrible if you're running over EDGE.

    All I'm saying is I'd like to see RIM innovate a little faster. If they don't, I think they're going to lose a lot of ground to Apple and Google.
    06-11-10 12:39 PM
  23. Masahiro's Avatar
    A feature or program that isn't used consumes no resources. A device that "has a lot of overall functionality" is one that has all the bells and whistles I've been mentioning. It seems to me that an iPhone or Android phone has MORE overall functionality than a Blackberry. I'd say "few features that are situational" sounds like a sold communication device that emails and txts while
    "overall functionality" is a device with thousands of apps.
    Perhaps I should have worded it differently. I meant a device with overall usability. I mean, yes you can technically do anything with the right kind of app, but I don't often find myself in a position where I'm wanting to "do anything". I just want to text, call, occasionally surf some websites, etc...

    A faster processor positively impacts every aspect of a device except battery life. Multitasking, web viewing, maps, taking photos, etc. Anything that requires clock cycles is finished faster. I'm not sure if you've played around with a Droid Incredible, but every app literally opens instantaneously. It's amazing.
    I have no problems opening apps on my phone either. A faster processor would be nice, but not something I'm really dying for. If the new BlackBerrys have faster processors, great. If not, it's no big deal to me.

    You'd definitely be in the minority then. Most people want a super snappy device with a giant shiny screen and super camera on the back. This is what concerns me about RIM. HTC can add 3 buttons on the side of their new phone, but it's not like RIM can throw in a new OS and totally new hardware overnight. Simply put, all of the advantages of a BB are getting eaten away bite by bite. If there's a demand for more buttons, Moto and HTC will add them on in a second.
    I would have to highly disagree with this. Just look at Nokia's marketshare. They don't make the fanciest devices either. Of course, they're slipping quite considerably and RIM is hot on their tails. Then again, RIM doesn't make shiny phones either. Then there's iPhone chasing after RIM, but even the iPhone didn't have specs to write home about before the 4G. Their camera wasn't the best either.

    The point is, the people looking for a super device with a giant screen are in the minority as far as I'm aware. They're a noisy minority on these forums, mind you, but a BlackBerry fansite with over 2million users on the forums speaks volumes.

    Which must be horrible if you're running over EDGE.
    The web browsing? It's fine. 3G would be nice though. I have my eye on the 9800.

    All I'm saying is I'd like to see RIM innovate a little faster. If they don't, I think they're going to lose a lot of ground to Apple and Google.
    They already have lost a lot of ground, which is to be expected. The iPhone and Androids represent the opposite spectrum of the smartphone market. Anyone looking for a smartphone that's more "fun" than the BlackBerry will usually end up with either one of those, and that's perfectly fine. That's what competition is all about. Before 2007 (pre-iPhone), there was hardly any choice in regards to what smartphone to get. It was just BlackBerry, Nokia or Windows Mobile... That would have kept a lot of people from becoming interested in purchasing a smartphone, which represented a prime opportunity for Apple.

    Should RIM be concerned? Meh. That's a whole different discussion. It's not like they can "innovate a little faster". It just doesn't work that way. Can you tell inventors to invent things faster? Upgrade their phones, maybe, but throwing on high-end specs on a phone can hardly be considered "innovative". It really doesn't take much ingenuity to buy up the fastest processors on the market and throw it onto a phone. What I consider innovative is something like the iPhone 4's implementation of the antennae as part of the metal trimming. Now that's an innovation (assuming it actually functions correctly).

    Anyways, good post.
    06-12-10 04:32 AM
  24. grahamf's Avatar
    A feature or program that isn't used consumes no resources. A device that "has a lot of overall functionality" is one that has all the bells and whistles I've been mentioning. It seems to me that an iPhone or Android phone has MORE overall functionality than a Blackberry. I'd say "few features that are situational" sounds like a sold communication device that emails and txts while
    "overall functionality" is a device with thousands of apps.
    Not to me.
    Sure you could get a $100,000 Ford F450 or a $300,000 Lambo because it can tow a gazillian pounds or go 300km/h and thus have more overall functionality, but it would be very rare that you tow or carry something that my $800 (yes, $800 - would've gotten it for $400 if the clutch died sooner) Mazda pickup truck can't and unless you are on the salt flats the speed limit is 110Km/h max with leeway up to 150km/h if you're lucky so all you would be doing is have your mileage go down the gutter.

    and yes, it's in km/h. learn the metric system.
    06-12-10 04:48 AM
  25. PensHockey's Avatar
    Not to me.
    Sure you could get a $100,000 Ford F450 or a $300,000 Lambo because it can tow a gazillian pounds or go 300km/h and thus have more overall functionality, but it would be very rare that you tow or carry something that my $800 (yes, $800 - would've gotten it for $400 if the clutch died sooner) Mazda pickup truck can't and unless you are on the salt flats the speed limit is 110Km/h max with leeway up to 150km/h if you're lucky so all you would be doing is have your mileage go down the gutter.

    and yes, it's in km/h. learn the metric system.
    Ok but on the mobile super highway there is no speed limit. If you want things done now you need to get info faster. Yes some people are ok with waiting 15 sec for an email and some need it 5 sec ago.

    Now what if i offered you the Mazda pickup or 2012 Ford F450 and you can pick one for $800. And your job was hauling around stuff. What would you pick?

    If you can have everything you like in a phone and have it run faster why not? unless you just dont want to leave your BB?
    06-12-10 09:49 AM
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