02-27-14 07:31 PM
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  1. Fret Madden's Avatar
    How about nothing on the front in terms of branding? Leave it for the back of the device. It's just wasted space on the front. Every mm counts is my main concern. Go look at an iPhone for example.


    Posted via CB Forums iOS app
    I can agree with that, it was the lack of confidence claim that had me raising an eyebrow. Along with the iPhone, observe the Nexus 5 and HTC One.

    Posted via CB10
    Plazmic Flame likes this.
    02-20-14 06:03 AM
  2. kfh227's Avatar
    You quoted a piece of my post and then just put a picture of a Samsung product. Care to elaborate? I do see they have their logo on the front of their device. So what do you think? Because all you said is "interesting".


    Posted via CB Forums iOS app
    I get it.

    It's the top selling brand and they still put there logo there.

    I recognize the shape of this bottle but I would never remove the label.


    Dev Alpha "D" - Display Size-coca-cola-2-liter-botle-114x300.jpg

    Posted via CB10
    02-20-14 11:38 AM
  3. Plazmic Flame's Avatar
    I get it.

    It's the top selling brand and they still put there logo there.

    I recognize the shape of this bottle but I would never remove the label.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Posted via CB10
    Let's talk about smartphones and not soda bottles... Two different categories of products.


    Posted via CB Forums iOS app
    02-20-14 11:56 AM
  4. Bbnivende's Avatar
    If they do make it longer, gotta make it the Z10/Z30's aspect ratio. Don't want to have too many weird aspect ratios.
    They really can't do that unless it is a Slider ... even then the ergonomics are a problem. They can do a 3:4. They could go with a narrow phone with about a 3.9 inch screen but then the keypad is too narrow. Having a QWERTY phone means that you can't have it all.
    02-20-14 12:30 PM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I think you are actually overcomplicating things by measuring items with an unknown size and it is probably better to work with what you do know.

    If we assume the 1440x1440 part is true then the range of ppi for those seem to go from 480 to about 550 depending on the size of 16:10 display, however this device has a 1:1 display so you only consider the width. If we choose the lowest value (likely to be cheapest display of that rez) that would work out as 3" per side, that would lead to a display size of 4.25" and a device that while wider than usual would not be as top heavy as slapping a physical keyboard underneath as z10.

    Actually OP has a point of reference and that is the power cord. I recall someone making the same type of extrapolation before we knew for certain the screen size of the Q10 and it was fairly accurate.

    Your suggested phone with a 4.25 inch screen would be 89.66 mm wide by my calculation assuming the same format as a Q10 which would make it one of the widest phones on the market. Not very nice.

    One point we should remember is that when you are looking at a web page or a document the width of the screen is more important than the length because it is easier to scroll down than to go side to side and the font size can be larger when displaying text on a web site. In some ways and for some uses a 3.5 inch square screen is better than a Iphone 4 inch screen.

    A point about weight and balance. The designers use computers to design these phones to achieve balance. In particular the battery size and position plays an important roll. They shift components around to achieve balance. The screen or even the keyboard are not heavy by themselves.
    UrbanGlowCam likes this.
    02-20-14 12:48 PM
  6. donmateo's Avatar
    Tell me one company that does not mark up a product with their logo? Get over it, it's free marketing for them.
    02-20-14 12:55 PM
  7. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
    Where are you getting the 1440 X 1440 from? It sounds high. I mean even if it were actually 1080 X 1080 that would be a ppi of 436 which seems much more realistic.
    There are other devices with extremely high pixel densities. The Vivo Xplay 3S has a panel with 538 PPI.

    The latest software leaks have shown information for a device with a 1440 x 1440 resolution, so it seems likely that this is it. http://forums.crackberry.com/news-ru...-names-828586/

    That's true, there is still a market for it but this isn't the year 2001, it's 2014. In this day and age, people are embracing larger screen sizes, regardless of what people say about weight, one-handed usability, etc. For goodness sake, even the iPhone currently sits at 4" inches.... what is BlackBerry doing making a device with a 3" inch screen (Q10) or even this prototype that is supposedly the next QWERTY device, the Windemere???

    ...
    I understand where you're coming from, and I have this same conversation with others frequently. I do think they should aim for a bigger display, but not like the image you posted. That just looks really unbalanced. I think people have gotten a bit jaded with all these large phones coming out lately. At BlackBerry's peak, they were using 2.2-2.4" screens and users were happy. We obviously live in a different time where media consumption is more important than ever. But IMO, BlackBerry has been making great strides to keep their iconic form factor, while still managing to increase the screen size. If my measurements are correct, the "Dev Alpha D" display has the same diagonal length as the iPhone 4S. That is larger than the original BlackBerry Storms. Pretty nuts to think for a PKB device.

    I think the PKB user just has different priorities than the full touch user. Someone like myself prefers to have a more handheld device that is easier to use with one hand and aims more at a larger battery rather than a huge display. I'm not as focused on gaming and watching videos as I am communicating and using productive apps.

    On the other hand, when I DO like to see more content without having to scroll as much, I sometimes wish for a slightly longer screen vertically. But then when I watch the occasional video someone sends me, I then want a WIDER format screen to play without the black bars at top/bottom. But these concerns are rare for me, and I much prefer just having a device with a smaller footprint.

    What I've noticed is that more people complain about the size of the Q10 display than the 9900 users did. It's strange since it's a noticeably larger screen. I think it comes down more to the BBOS vs BB10 UI. If they can allow for more screen real estate by minimizing UI elements in the future, it could solve this problem a bit. This would be adding more features like the autohide tab bar at the bottom of the Q10 screen while scrolling.

    So the whole thing is a tricky situation and is hard to please everyone. But I'm really happy that they're still focused on improving their iconic physical qwerty line and are allowing it to evolve in a good way. There are obviously still those who prefer it. Just look at how all the celebrities that use BlackBerrys today are mostly using Q10s rather than the Z line. At the same time, I'm glad they're also focused on improving the full touch line for the media centric users.

    I think you are actually overcomplicating things by measuring items with an unknown size and it is probably better to work with what you do know.

    If we assume the 1440x1440 part is true then the range of ppi for those seem to go from 480 to about 550 depending on the size of 16:10 display, however this device has a 1:1 display so you only consider the width. If we choose the lowest value (likely to be cheapest display of that rez) that would work out as 3" per side, that would lead to a display size of 4.25" and a device that while wider than usual would not be as top heavy as slapping a physical keyboard underneath as z10.
    I highly doubt we'll see a 4.25" display on this device. At 3" wide, the device would be nearing more of the 80+ mm width range. I don't think I'm over complicating things. I'm simply using the proximity sensor as a reference point since they have typically been the same size on multiple BlackBerry devices (Q10, 9900, 9700, 9000 etc.) over the years.

    Actually OP has a point of reference and that is the power cord. I recall someone making the same type of extrapolation before we knew for certain the screen size of the Q10 and it was fairly accurate.

    Your suggested phone with a 4.25 inch screen would be 89.66 mm wide by my calculation assuming the same format as a Q10 which would make it one of the widest phones on the market. Not very nice.

    ....
    Wow you took the words out of my mouth AS I was typing them. Agreed!
    02-20-14 01:09 PM
  8. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The main reason that the 3.1 inch Q10 is not loved is because of the loss of the Trackpad . You need a larger screen to go all touch all the time . As far as big phones versus small phones, the paradigm has shifted . Now the smaller the phone the cheaper it looks . The Q10 drowns in any display case.
    02-20-14 03:45 PM
  9. Skeevecr's Avatar
    How about nothing on the front in terms of branding? Leave it for the back of the device. It's just wasted space on the front. Every mm counts is my main concern. Go look at an iPhone for example.
    Are you seriously jumping to the conclusion that there isn't a reason for the device to be that size anyway and companies like BB or Samsung aren't simply taking advantage of that available space to put their branding on it rather than simply making the device smaller.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    02-20-14 04:17 PM
  10. Skeevecr's Avatar
    I highly doubt we'll see a 4.25" display on this device. At 3" wide, the device would be nearing more of the 80+ mm width range. I don't think I'm over complicating things. I'm simply using the proximity sensor as a reference point since they have typically been the same size on multiple BlackBerry devices (Q10, 9900, 9700, 9000 etc.) over the years.
    You mean the width of a Samsung Note kind of device, no chance of that happening in a market moving towards larger devices now is there.

    As far as your guessing the size, you cannot know the sizing of the items you picked, but unless we assume the leaks are wrong about the 1440x1440 thing we do know the current range of ppi for such categories of display and it makes more sense to use those figures in any calculation to at least produce a range of potential screen sizes. I guess we will see who is right when or if a production version of this device shows up, but I would not be at all surprised if we end up with a 4.3" - 4.5" display on this device.
    02-20-14 04:26 PM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    You mean the width of a Samsung Note kind of device, no chance of that happening in a market moving towards larger devices now is there.

    As far as your guessing the size, you cannot know the sizing of the items you picked, but unless we assume the leaks are wrong about the 1440x1440 thing we do know the current range of ppi for such categories of display and it makes more sense to use those figures in any calculation to at least produce a range of potential screen sizes. I guess we will see who is right when or if a production version of this device shows up, but I would not be at all surprised if we end up with a 4.3" - 4.5" display on this device.
    With a square screen ? If yes then we would know how big the screen must be and how wide the device would be. There is no way you can get a square screen phone with a 4.3 inch screen in a phone unless that phone is VERY wide. There are web sites that can calculate the diagonal of a square. To have a Q phone with a 4.3 inch screen, the phone would have to be a full inch wider from 2.63 to 3.63 inches.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 02-20-14 at 07:17 PM.
    UrbanGlowCam likes this.
    02-20-14 05:09 PM
  12. lnichols's Avatar
    Square screen is not optimal for BB10. Needs to be either 16x9 with a keyboard or at least 4x3 with a keyboard. A 720x1024 minimum.

    The W series needs scrapped if this is what it looks like.

    Posted via CB10
    02-20-14 07:21 PM
  13. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Square screen is not optimal for BB10. Needs to be either 16x9 with a keyboard or at least 4x3 with a keyboard. A 720x1024 minimum.

    The W series needs scrapped if this is what it looks like.
    Posted via CB10
    Well 3.5 inches is doable but 3.5 with a trackpad would be ideal. If CEO's want the QWERTY device, I bet they would like one with a trackpad even more. John Chen wants to keep those CEO's happy.
    02-20-14 07:30 PM
  14. lnichols's Avatar
    Well 3.5 inches is doable but 3.5 with a trackpad would be ideal. If CEO's want the QWERTY device, I bet they would like one with a trackpad even more. John Chen wants to keep those CEO's happy.
    Optical trackpad was a horrible, and unreliable technology in my experience. Multiple failures. Bb10 works great without it IMO.

    Posted via CB10
    02-20-14 07:51 PM
  15. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
    You mean the width of a Samsung Note kind of device, no chance of that happening in a market moving towards larger devices now is there.
    lol @ the sarcasm. I'm aware of the market trends and of course there are devices with the larger width, but this is obviously not a phablet device.

    It's not an end all be all, but looking at BlackBerry's PKB line over the years, it's safe to see we won't see a 4.3 - 4.5" display on this one.

    Bold 9000 - 480 x 320 px - 2.6"
    Bold 9630/9650 - 480 x 360 px - 2.4"
    Bold 9700/9790 - 480 x 360 px - 2.4"
    Bold 9900/9930 - 640 x 480 px - 2.8"
    Q10 - 720 x 720 px - 3.1"

    So while the resolution is a more drastic increase to 1440 x 1440 px, the increase to a 3.4" - 3.5" seems to fit the pattern historically for the next iteration. 1440 x 1440 px is also fitting because it makes it easier on devs to just simply double the resolution from 720 x 720 px. This is very similar to what Apple did from the jump from the iPhone 3GS (480 x 320 px) to iPhone 4 (960 x 640 px).

    As far as your guessing the size, you cannot know the sizing of the items you picked, but unless we assume the leaks are wrong about the 1440x1440 thing we do know the current range of ppi for such categories of display and it makes more sense to use those figures in any calculation to at least produce a range of potential screen sizes. I guess we will see who is right when or if a production version of this device shows up, but I would not be at all surprised if we end up with a 4.3" - 4.5" display on this device.
    Huh? I don't KNOW the sizing, like I said. But I can make a good educated guess based on lining up the proximity sensors. I have collected a lot of smartphones over the years, and the sensor typically spans 15mm wide (Storm 9530, Storm 9550, Bold 9650, Bold 9930, Q10, Galaxy Nexus). Only the Z10 is a TAD wider at 17mm. By just knowing the display size and resolution, you can easily calculate the pixel density (PPI).

    With a square screen ? If yes then we would know how big the screen must be and how wide the device would be. There is no way you can get a square screen phone with a 4.3 inch screen in a phone unless that phone is VERY wide. There are web sites that can calculate the diagonal of a square. To have a Q phone with a 4.3 inch screen, the phone would have to be a full inch wider from 2.63 to 3.63 inches.
    Right. The display alone would be about 3" wide with a 4.3" screen (1:1). That's going to approach Lumia 1520 and Galaxy Note 3 sizing.
    02-21-14 01:15 AM
  16. Skeevecr's Avatar
    There is no way you can get a square screen phone with a 4.3 inch screen in a phone unless that phone is VERY wide. There are web sites that can calculate the diagonal of a square. To have a Q phone with a 4.3 inch screen, the phone would have to be a full inch wider from 2.63 to 3.63 inches.
    You don't actually need a website to calculate anything, it is a simple application of pythagoras, with a 4.3" display you would end up with a width and height of 3.04" which would make it as wide as a Note-style device and while that is a lot it would offer something different and not automatically put off people who are fine with large phones and find the current Q devices to have too small a display.
    02-21-14 06:36 AM
  17. Skeevecr's Avatar
    Only the Z10 is a TAD wider at 17mm. By just knowing the display size and resolution, you can easily calculate the pixel density (PPI).
    You don't need to use unknowns to try and calculate the pixel density though, this is something that can be readily obtained as a known range of values based on the 1440p displays that are actually being produced at this time and it makes more sense to use that info to try and determine a value for the actual unknown which is the display size itself.

    Right. The display alone would be about 3" wide with a 4.3" screen (1:1). That's going to approach Lumia 1520 and Galaxy Note 3 sizing.
    And the problem is what, there is clearly a market for larger devices nowadays so why wouldn't BB take an interesting approach to try and capture some of that market or even potentially create a new one since this would be basically the first qwerty phablet.
    02-21-14 06:39 AM
  18. IgotsThis's Avatar
    I think 3.5 is fair. Loads of people still use the i4 so I wouldn't see it as a problem.

    Posted via CB10
    02-21-14 07:17 AM
  19. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
    And the problem is what, there is clearly a market for larger devices nowadays so why wouldn't BB take an interesting approach to try and capture some of that market or even potentially create a new one since this would be basically the first qwerty phablet.
    There is a market for larger devices, but I think the physical qwerty market is different and they shouldn't risk abandoning their regular customers from all these years by making such a drastic change.

    Maybe that would work as a separate device line. But if these are aimed towards their primary "Bold"/Q10 user base, it could put them off. That drastic of a change would really throw off the balance.
    02-21-14 11:30 AM
  20. Bbnivende's Avatar
    There is a market for larger devices, but I think the physical qwerty market is different and they shouldn't risk abandoning their regular customers from all these years by making such a drastic change.

    Maybe that would work as a separate device line. But if these are aimed towards their primary "Bold"/Q10 user base, it could put them off. That drastic of a change would really throw off the balance.
    Personally I like the width of the Q10 but It has room to grow taller. Give that phone some growth hormones ! They seem to think that a higher PPI is better than screen size ... no not really.

    How many would like a 3:4 screen format. The Q10 Keyboard and the buttons and trackpad from the 9900 ? Hold up your hand.

    Would I buy a wider phone that still has a small screen and no trackpad, no probably not. Lots of people still own iphone 4's but would there be a market for a 3.5 inch phone today ? Maybe but it would have to be ultra cheap. Not the market that BB wants.

    Still, it depends, maybe a 1440 X 1440 small screen combined with a new touch sensitive keyboard might be a difference maker. Would the touch sensitive keyboard be reliable.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 02-21-14 at 01:56 PM.
    02-21-14 01:21 PM
  21. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
    Personally I like the width of the Q10 but It has room to grow taller. Give that phone some growth hormones ! They seem to think that a higher PPI is better than screen size ... no not really.

    How many would like a 3:4 screen format. The Q10 Keyboard and the buttons and trackpad from the 9900 ? Hold up your hand.

    Would I buy a wider phone that still has a small screen and no trackpad, no probably not. Lots of people still own iphone 4's but would there be a market for a 3.5 inch phone today ? Maybe but it would have to be ultra cheap. Not the market that BB wants.

    Still, it depends, maybe a 1440 X 1440 small screen combined with a new touch sensitive keyboard might be a difference maker. Would the touch sensitive keyboard be reliable.
    I like the idea of a 3:4 display too. I think the pixel density is great already.
    02-21-14 06:14 PM
  22. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
    You mean the width of a Samsung Note kind of device, no chance of that happening in a market moving towards larger devices now is there.

    As far as your guessing the size, you cannot know the sizing of the items you picked, but unless we assume the leaks are wrong about the 1440x1440 thing we do know the current range of ppi for such categories of display and it makes more sense to use those figures in any calculation to at least produce a range of potential screen sizes. I guess we will see who is right when or if a production version of this device shows up, but I would not be at all surprised if we end up with a 4.3" - 4.5" display on this device.
    I hate to say I told you so but....

    – The BlackBerry Q20 smartphone will include a generous 3.5″ touchscreen,
    the largest display yet on a QWERTY BlackBerry smartphone, giving you
    more space for viewing messages, browsing Internet and intranet sites
    and accessing other apps.


    Per the official Q20 press release from BlackBerry today.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    02-25-14 02:15 AM
  23. Daniel Rudolf's Avatar
    I hate to say I told you so but....

    – The BlackBerry Q20 smartphone will include a generous 3.5″ touchscreen,
    the largest display yet on a QWERTY BlackBerry smartphone, giving you
    more space for viewing messages, browsing Internet and intranet sites
    and accessing other apps.


    Per the official Q20 press release from BlackBerry today.
    I think the windemere prototype and the Q20 might be different devices. The prototype pictures that have leaked don't indicate anything about the "tool belt" of function keys. In fact wasn't the primary innovation of windemere supposed to be something about gesture control and virtual keys?
    02-25-14 02:37 AM
  24. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
    I think the windemere prototype and the Q20 might be different devices. The prototype pictures that have leaked don't indicate anything about the "tool belt" of function keys. In fact wasn't the primary innovation of windemere supposed to be something about gesture control and virtual keys?
    Good point, yes. But I do wonder whether or not the Windermere will be canned. I've heard it is still in production, but if they're both aiming to release later this year, what would be the point of having both? I guess the Q20 will be a BlackBerry/Foxconn project, while the Windermere is BlackBerry's own. I really don't see why they would have two very different keyboard designs launching around the same time. It seems confusing. We'll see.

    But I'm guessing they are both targeting the same 3.5" 1440 x 1440 px display.
    02-25-14 03:01 AM
  25. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Any confirmation on the screen specs for the Q20. Probably 720 x 720. BB has never let me down when I have underestimated.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using CB Forums mobile app
    02-27-14 12:09 AM
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