06-09-10 10:40 PM
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  1. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    Thank you. Perhaps it's because I'm only on my first cup of coffee, but my head was getting scrambled as I was reading through the posts, trying to recall what I read as reported "fact" vs. what I read as "rumor/speculation."

    I agree about the 3 in 11/10 and a 4 in early 11, that's simply insane. Any new, LTE device is surely going to be backward compatible so it would be absolute market and branding insanity to release two devices within five monthys of each other, one outdating the other almost instantly!

    VZW will have LTE live in 30-40 markets by end of 2010. They are stating that they have a few tablets and PC Modems ready for Q4, and that there will be 5 headsets that will be in place by May 2011. Qualcomm has had LTE capable Chip-sets out for almost 2 years, and even the earliest mentions of the S3 indicated that it would support 4G. Keep in mind that anything 4g will also have to support 3G (EvDo), So even if LTE is not 100% there you get the same 3g performance with a boost once LTE hits your area.

    I don't think it benefits RIM or VZW to release as Storm 3 in Nov 2010 and then a Storm 4 in May 2011. That would just be pure greed, and would drive away customers.

    I can see it delaying until January or later possibly, but even for that there is plenty of time to get the device ready and tested by End of 2010.
    06-03-10 12:57 PM
  2. Skeevecr's Avatar
    I don't think it benefits RIM or VZW to release as Storm 3 in Nov 2010 and then a Storm 4 in May 2011. That would just be pure greed, and would drive away customers.
    It has been quite a while since somebody could reasonably buy all the blackberries released, I just don't get why anyone would be surprised at this situation increasing, rather than looking at it in a negative light you could see how it can be a good thing e.g. shorter gaps between products means that even if you buy a device at the wrong time near it's end of life period, it still won't be as old as it would in the past.

    The simple fact of the matter is that new hardware gets the attention and marketing so the more regular the hardware updates the more rim are getting that benefit.

    The only consumer that is truly hurt by such stuff would be one who had blackberry mixed up with pokemon and was trying to catch them all.
    06-03-10 01:04 PM
  3. japhule's Avatar
    They'll probably have a Storm3 end of 2010 and a LTE capable Storm3a, similar to what's happening with the 9700 and the rumored 9700a (not the touchscreen), which is the 9700 with 512mb app memory.
    06-03-10 02:07 PM
  4. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    I'm not quite sure of the logic of this thinking. Engine's assumption seems quite reasonable to me. Any LTE capable device will certainly be backwards compatible (since not every area will have LTE), so there is really little need to release a "Device A followed by an LTE capable "Device B" when it is so close to the LTE roll out date. Just the economics of that alone would make it infeasible. Of course, any follower of BB knows that there should never be logic applied to the thinking!

    They'll probably have a Storm3 end of 2010 and a LTE capable Storm3a, similar to what's happening with the 9700 and the rumored 9700a (not the touchscreen), which is the 9700 with 512mb app memory.
    06-03-10 03:38 PM
  5. Sniperet's Avatar
    "I agree about the 3 in 11/10 and a 4 in early 11, that's simply insane."

    How can you all be surprised by or believe RIM or VZW would be against a one year window between releases. Storm 1 released 11/08, Storm 2 released 11/09 why would they not hesitate to follow the pattern with 3 and 4 if they can manage it.
    06-04-10 05:50 PM
  6. The_Engine's Avatar
    "I agree about the 3 in 11/10 and a 4 in early 11, that's simply insane."

    How can you all be surprised by or believe RIM or VZW would be against a one year window between releases. Storm 1 released 11/08, Storm 2 released 11/09 why would they not hesitate to follow the pattern with 3 and 4 if they can manage it.
    you missed something there. No one is reacting to S3 dropping in 11/10 and S4 in 11/11. We are saying S3 dropping 11/10 (or 12/10 0r 1/11) followed by S4 in 5/11. So about 6 months in between as opposed to 12 months.

    Especially if S3 is 3g and S4 is 4G...
    06-04-10 10:59 PM
  7. japhule's Avatar
    I don't see there being a 6 month window between releases. I remember when the Tour came out last summer with there already being word of the Tour2 to be available in January '10... 6 months later the Tour2 (aka Bold 9650) is finally available.
    06-04-10 11:47 PM
  8. Skeevecr's Avatar
    The change to 4g would seem a valid reason for a shorter update if that was what happened, but in any case what is so terrible about them increasing the rate of release as nobody is forced to treat blackberry like it is pokemon and try to collect them all.
    06-05-10 07:34 AM
  9. belogical's Avatar
    So sad... I really wish RIM would have gotten their act together. I loved my storm 1 but just couldn't wait any longer. The HTC Droid incredible is better than I could have imagined. Web browsing is faster on my droid than my laptop at times. Good luck to all and I will always be a crackberry fan!
    06-08-10 11:53 AM
  10. grahamf's Avatar
    So sad... I really wish RIM would have gotten their act together. I loved my storm 1 but just couldn't wait any longer. The HTC Droid incredible is better than I could have imagined. Web browsing is faster on my droid than my laptop at times. Good luck to all and I will always be a crackberry fan!
    and yet you device info say otherwise
    foreshadowing methinks
    06-08-10 12:06 PM
  11. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    Personal preferences are just that, personal. Other than a faster browser, I found nothing about the Incredible that I liked...NOTHING. And I really wanted it to impress me, I was thinking it might be time for a change, but after three visits with it, I gave up. It feels cheap, display is horribly disappointing (and even worse outside from what I hear, but the store rep was not about to allow me outside, lol), I'm not thrilled with how the Android OS works, though I will agree that this may be more of a "get familiar with it" issue.

    Still, I understand how some may love it. That's great, go and enjoy and I hope it's everything you dreamed of. But I'm tired of those coming in to the forums (I'm not referring to the OP here) trying to convince everyone else that their BBs are crap and the only way to go is Android. That's pure rubbish and the debate has grown as stale as a 3 month old cracker laying on the beach.
    06-08-10 01:34 PM
  12. belogical's Avatar
    Personal preferences are just that, personal. Other than a faster browser, I found nothing about the Incredible that I liked...NOTHING. And I really wanted it to impress me, I was thinking it might be time for a change, but after three visits with it, I gave up. It feels cheap, display is horribly disappointing (and even worse outside from what I hear, but the store rep was not about to allow me outside, lol), I'm not thrilled with how the Android OS works, though I will agree that this may be more of a "get familiar with it" issue.

    Still, I understand how some may love it. That's great, go and enjoy and I hope it's everything you dreamed of. But I'm tired of those coming in to the forums (I'm not referring to the OP here) trying to convince everyone else that their BBs are crap and the only way to go is Android. That's pure rubbish and the debate has grown as stale as a 3 month old cracker laying on the beach.
    You sound just like me two years ago!
    06-08-10 02:13 PM
  13. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    I'm not exactly sure by what you mean here. Perhaps to say "I used to think the same way until I switched?" If so, please don't get me wrong, I'm not a BB fanboi, I would have no qualms about switching to another device, should it offer what I want. Right now though, BB satisfies my needs (even exceeds them in some areas) and I happen to like the way things work. It's not perfect, it has its downfalls (truncated email, slow browser) but I've yet to see anything that really floats my boat and exceeds my more important criteria. Perhaps that day will come and if/when it does, I'll embrace it. Until then, when I look at devices like the Incredible, I am left feeling .......... well, not so incredible

    You sound just like me two years ago!
    06-08-10 02:39 PM
  14. belogical's Avatar
    I'm not exactly sure by what you mean here. Perhaps to say "I used to think the same way until I switched?" If so, please don't get me wrong, I'm not a BB fanboi, I would have no qualms about switching to another device, should it offer what I want. Right now though, BB satisfies my needs (even exceeds them in some areas) and I happen to like the way things work. It's not perfect, it has its downfalls (truncated email, slow browser) but I've yet to see anything that really floats my boat and exceeds my more important criteria. Perhaps that day will come and if/when it does, I'll embrace it. Until then, when I look at devices like the Incredible, I am left feeling .......... well, not so incredible
    That is exactly where I was. This is a business device for me, and the storm 1 satisfied all my needs. What I didn't realize was all the wants that a device could fulfill. With this new phone I have changed from a storm 1, early adopter (loaded about 50 leaks), sold my zune HD, been a zune fan since launch day of device 1 (30 gig brick baby!). I have no need for my ipod touch either, which was purchased for a mindless gaming session when time permits (a la the crapper). There is also a big difference in fulfilling the needs/wants in a fast or slow manner. I'm easily 200% more effective now with the speed increase of this device. I'll be honest with you, I wasn't really impressed with the device in the store either. Remember, i started this thread, because I was dying for the Storm 3. I started to do some real, honest evaluation of the Android platform for the 1st time since becoming a smart phone owner. I fell in love with blackberry with my first 8703e only to be disappointed as a fan by the lack of progress RIM is making today. The lack of storm 3 news really got me looking. The only blackberry noise has been the slider, on AT&T. I'm not interested in going down the AT&T road again, plus my work is Verizon only (thank goodness).

    So, back to my research. I heard about the incredible selling out like hotcakes, so I looked into it in detail. I watched probably every video on youtube relating to the phone. That is when I started thinking about making the switch. I'm not interested in making in converts, as I'm not in sales. This is just my opinion having had both devices.

    Some things that sold me:
    apps installed on SD card (droid 2.2 aka FroYo)
    phone is a mifi hotspot (droid 2.2 aka FroYo)
    google navigation (best GPS system available)
    free tethering (saves the company $100+ per year)
    lighting fast OS
    50K apps
    dashboard widgets

    Lastly, don't do like I did and dismiss the device because it didn't give you the warm and fuzzies in the store.

    YouTube - droid incredible
    06-08-10 03:39 PM
  15. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    I hear you and I understand. But, there are deal breakers. For me, as a professional photographer, a BIG deal breaker is the display, it simply is not up to snuff for me. One of the very first things that even attracted me to getting a smart phone (like many, my old, LG brick phone worked just GREAT..made great calls, received great calls..."I don't need no steenkin' smart phone..." ). Then, I was having dinner one night with a model I had photographed. There was entertainment at the restaurant and one of the perfomers spotted us at a table up front and came over and started putting the moves on the model. When he asked her what she did, she told him and then quickly introduced me as her photographer. Suddenly, she whips out her iPhone (at that point, I'd heard of them but paid no attention to them..this was first gen). She begins showing him some of the photgraphs I had taken of her in the past. I could not believe what I was seeing, lol.....this? on her PHONE? I was amazed, they looked great. But, it was Apple and it was AT&T so, things never went any further. I had been reading a great deal on the Storm 1 prior to its release. The day it came out, I took a bunch of sample photos on a SD card over to the store and asked the rep to view them on the sample phone. I was impressed enough to buy the phone on the spot (got the last one, lol). Today, I use the display as a way to quickly show a potential client what I do and hopefully capture their attention enough to take things to the next step.

    So, display is huge for me and the Incredible's display (and all of the Android OLED devices that I've seen so far) simply don't impress me. I do want to look at the new, Samsung, the video of that display is simply amazing, but I need to see it in person. Another possible deal breaker is email. I often depend on "just in time email" and I use my own domain (I don't want clients to have to deal with multiple email addresses) so delays could be problemmatic.

    Lastly, don't do like I did and dismiss the device because it didn't give you the warm and fuzzies in the store.

    YouTube - droid incredible
    Last edited by EnergyPlus; 06-08-10 at 06:53 PM.
    06-08-10 06:49 PM
  16. The_Engine's Avatar
    I hear you and I understand. But, there are deal breakers. For me, as a professional photographer, a BIG deal breaker is the display, it simply is not up to snuff for me. One of the very first things that even attracted me to getting a smart phone (like many, my old, LG brick phone worked just GREAT..made great calls, received great calls..."I don't need no steenkin' smart phone..." ). Then, I was having dinner one night with a model I had photographed. There was entertainment at the restaurant and one of the perfomers spotted us at a table up front and came over and started putting the moves on the model. When he asked her what she did, she told him and then quickly introduced me as her photographer. Suddenly, she whips out her iPhone (at that point, I'd heard of them but paid no attention to them..this was first gen). She begins showing him some of the photgraphs I had taken of her in the past. I could not believe what I was seeing, lol.....this? on her PHONE? I was amazed, they looked great. But, it was Apple and it was AT&T so, things never went any further. I had been reading a great deal on the Storm 1 prior to its release. The day it came out, I took a bunch of sample photos on a SD card over to the store and asked the rep to view them on the sample phone. I was impressed enough to buy the phone on the spot (got the last one, lol). Today, I use the display as a way to quickly show a potential client what I do and hopefully capture their attention enough to take things to the next step.

    So, display is huge for me and the Incredible's display (and all of the Android OLED devices that I've seen so far) simply don't impress me. I do want to look at the new, Samsung, the video of that display is simply amazing, but I need to see it in person. Another possible deal breaker is email. I often depend on "just in time email" and I use my own domain (I don't want clients to have to deal with multiple email addresses) so delays could be problemmatic.
    Blah, blah, blah...great story, but who went home with the model!? (jk). : )

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-08-10 08:38 PM
  17. TheOne01's Avatar
    But, there are deal breakers. For me, as a professional photographer, a BIG deal breaker is the display, it simply is not up to snuff for me.
    So you're saying that the storm's display is better?
    06-08-10 08:49 PM
  18. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    ROFL!!!! Um, I'm not telling, but let's just say the entertainer had to get back to work

    Blah, blah, blah...great story, but who went home with the model!? (jk). : )



    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-08-10 10:16 PM
  19. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    I do believe that. Yes, I know, the Incredible has a resolution of 480x800 on their OLED display, vs. the Storm's TFT display of 480 x 360, which would yield a sharper image on the Incredible, but display is not just all about dpi. It's the color gamut, contrast and other factors that dictate the final image experience. On screens this small, I think sharpness issues are less important than contrast, color accuracy, color saturation and color gamut. OLEDs just don't do it for me, though as I said earlier, Samsung has something called "Super AMOLED" (or something like that) which, at least in the videos I saw, looked pretty amazing, but I've yet to hold the device in my hand.

    So you're saying that the storm's display is better?
    06-08-10 10:24 PM
  20. belogical's Avatar
    I do believe that. Yes, I know, the Incredible has a resolution of 480x800 on their OLED display, vs. the Storm's TFT display of 480 x 360, which would yield a sharper image on the Incredible, but display is not just all about dpi. It's the color gamut, contrast and other factors that dictate the final image experience. On screens this small, I think sharpness issues are less important than contrast, color accuracy, color saturation and color gamut. OLEDs just don't do it for me, though as I said earlier, Samsung has something called "Super AMOLED" (or something like that) which, at least in the videos I saw, looked pretty amazing, but I've yet to hold the device in my hand.
    Interesting point of view. Did you do the same thing with the incredible, taking the SD card in and view your photos? I'd be shocked if you didn't think the display killed the storms. I too was amazed at the storms screen, compared to my 8703e. But now the storm looks a lot like the 8703e in comparison to the incredible. Takes some pics by today and do a comparison and let us know the results. You obviously have a good eye for photos, something maybe I'm missing.
    06-09-10 09:25 AM
  21. belogical's Avatar
    But, there are deal breakers.
    Photoshop.com Mobile Android App - Photo editor, sharing, upload

    Have you seen this app?
    06-09-10 09:37 AM
  22. ushneb's Avatar
    S3 could very well be launched as a LTE capable handset. Does it mean you'll have LTE in your area? No. Does that matter much? No.

    Look at Sprint's WiMax and the Evo 4G. Some people just plain don't care if their city even has WiMax or not and their still buying it up like hotcakes.

    If the phone is good enough no one will care if the infrastructure is there in their city or not. Besides, VZW is planning on having 20-30 markets deployed this year so if they do release the S3 as an LTE compliant device then at least those markets will be able to take advantage of it.
    06-09-10 12:42 PM
  23. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    Hey, BeLogical: Very interesting and I had to laugh. I recall a thread from about six months ago (amazing I even remember it) where someone asked me if I knew of a Photoshop application for the BB. I had to laugh. I LIVE on Photoshop, hours and hours and hours, often day after day, working photographs I've taken for clients. From my perspective, it was inconceivable that anyone in their right mind, would want to do Photoshop on their phone, let alone the issues related to memory (Photoshop, in its native form for PC or Mac, is a HUGE memory hog). I told him my views and also that I was not aware of any such app. Now, here you are showing me that there is indeed such an app (albeit, for Android). I watched the video. Interesting. It's not really "Photoshop" per se, but rather, a very simplified, minimal photo-editing app. For many, it's probably fine but I would find it far too limiting and frustrating. Also, I don't like using "Auto" features, they are rarely accurate (though, on occasion, I'm surprised). I manually make all my adjustments and there are usually multiple ways to accomplish a similar result, but one way may yield far better results than another (say, converting a photo to black and white...one can simply desaturate a photo, removing all color and voila, you have a black and white photo...more or less. In reality, it's more of a gray and white photo and to my eyes, very unpleasing. To differentiate what I do compared to say, the method above, I call my work "Rich Tone Black and White" and there is a very clear, distincitve difference. Think Ansel Adams. His work was %99.9 black and white...but he invented an approach called "The Zone System" and his photos are night and day difference in their tonality than a typical black and white photo.

    Finally, there is the issue of the screen itself. My monitor on my primary desktop computer, is color balanced and adjusted for brightness and contrast, every two weeks. I have a device that attaches to the screen itself, that reads a long series of color charts that are automatically displayed when I'm running the monitor calibration software. The device measures the color accuracy of the display charts and, in the end, produces a series of numbers that show me, numerically, the before and after results. I can then make adjustmens on my monitor, in the Red, Green and Blue color spectrums, plus white and black, for color, brightness and contrast, thus tweaking the monitor back to a calibrated standard that yields consistant results over time. I can be assured that a black or red or blue or whatever color, is the same today, as it was in a photo I adjusted six months ago. Monitors shift almost weekly. Our eyes tend to accept these gradual shifts and we don't realize the change that has happened. Every person's monitor will be different, since they are of different brands, age, display type, etc. Now, when a client says to me "that photo looked a little too bright" or "Too Dark" or "too red" I can go back to my own monitor and verify it and then let them know "on my calibrated monitor, it is correct, view your photo on someone else's monitor and tell me if you see the difference." 9.8 times out of 10, they return telling me they do see the difference.

    This is a long way of telling you that I would never trust my phone display to have any accuracy to speak of to trust making color corrections or other adjustments. It may well be fine for many users who aren't being picky, but not for me. Still, this is a neat app for the average phone cam user! Thanks for sharing.

    06-09-10 03:20 PM
  24. belogical's Avatar
    EnergyPlus: Yeah, photoshop is the most popular photo app on android, only by name though. There are more sophisticated apps out there if needed. Just wanted to point out one to you.

    Did you ever take an SD card to put in the incredible to compare screens?
    06-09-10 03:30 PM
  25. EnergyPlus's Avatar
    Actually, I have and be prepared to be shocked, I preferred the Storm display over that of the Incredible, just as I prefer the iPhone display over the Incredible. Again, it's the OLED thing.

    This morning, I was reading a column on PC World that happened to touch upon this very issue. The article was focused on the issue of "Retina Display" that many are claiming the new iPhone has. By this, they're referring to the screen resolution, claiming that technology has now evolved to the point of the screen's resolution exceeding what the human eye is capable of detecting. In the article, they more or less refute this claim for the iPhone, saying that while it is a superb resolution, the claim of "Retina Display" is exaggerated. The interesting point as it applies here though, is that they had some guru guy Dr. Raymond Soneira, who runs a company called "DisplayMate Technologies" discuss the new iPhones display and in the interview, he references the iPhones IPS screen technology to that of OLED and basically states that OLED technology is not yet "there" (including lifespan).

    You guys have me curious now, so, since I happen to have no work today (the typical life of a self-employed photographer, feast or famine), I may hop up to the VZW store with a card of photographs and check this out even more carefully.

    One final thought (and sorry for boring many of you with this, but it happens to be a favorite topic of mine). There is the "personal preference" issue. I have long preferred the look of a Plasma TV to that of the LCD TVs. Manufacturers were really working hard to improve LCDs. I never liked them for years. My own purchase was of a Panasonic Plasma. I like that look better than that I saw on any LCD device. LCDs are cheaper to manufacture though, and they do have some benefits (screen burn in, being one of them). Viewing angles, both on smart phones and televisions, are/were a big drawback to LCD style displays. If you weren't looking DEAD ON, the image degraded, often substantially. Plasma did not have this issue. So, I might (although somewhat inaccurately) compare plasma displays with that of the iPhone and Storm and LCD displays with that of most of the Android devices.

    Hope this answers your question!

    Interesting point of view. Did you do the same thing with the incredible, taking the SD card in and view your photos? I'd be shocked if you didn't think the display killed the storms. I too was amazed at the storms screen, compared to my 8703e. But now the storm looks a lot like the 8703e in comparison to the incredible. Takes some pics by today and do a comparison and let us know the results. You obviously have a good eye for photos, something maybe I'm missing.
    06-09-10 03:36 PM
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