06-01-13 08:31 PM
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  1. Michael Magliocchi's Avatar
    doubt theres any life for a slider. we all know the MILAN got scrapped and this patent is precisely the milan on a 45. Check the comparison between the two images :
    BlackBerry 10 Slider - A flicker of hope?-blackberry-milan.jpg - Original "Leaked" first MILAN image ( Dec 7 2011)
    - Recent Patent image (Apr 23 2013)

    Hate to break it to the Loyal Slider market, but given blackberry's intentions to streamline the development models in regards to screen resolution ( 16:9 / 1:1 @720p) the aspect ratio for a full touch slider is too awkward to hold in your hand and blackberry PRIDES itself on providing a feel good in the hand experience for their users.

    For example the Z10 has a length of 130 mm approx 5.1" Now looking at the Q10 length is slightly shorted 120 mm approx 4.7"

    From inspection its safe to assume that the Q10's keybad is roughly a 3rd of the device area so the height of the keyboard is about 40 mm ( 1.6 ").

    So any proposed slider would have the approximate dimensions :
    5.1" in length CLOSED
    6.7" in length OPEN

    Compared to the 9800/9810 form factor which is:
    4.37" CLOSED
    5.83" OPEN

    IMAGINE trying to use that phone.
    Thunderbuck and Plazmic Flame like this.
    05-09-13 01:08 PM
  2. CosmicHeretic's Avatar
    This reviewer says "the Q10 will likely be my primary phone until the new slider model comes out in September". Does he know something we don't? Review of the Blackberry Q10 | Good E-Reader - eBooks, Publishing and Comic News
    Plazmic Flame and justmoi like this.
    05-09-13 06:46 PM
  3. Rafski's Avatar
    I was really hoping to see a slider announcement (named S10). Instead there is a rumoured R10, which I think is not a good decision because it will take away Q10 sales. An S10 would be the best of both the Q10 and the Z10. A lot of people complain that QWERTY keyboards don't have enough screen real estate - so this would be perfect. It would just need to be very slim, elegant, and built solid but still light. I think If BB released something like the Motorola Droid 4 it would do well.
    05-11-13 01:02 AM
  4. Skeevecr's Avatar
    I was really hoping to see a slider announcement (named S10). Instead there is a rumoured R10, which I think is not a good decision because it will take away Q10 sales. An S10 would be the best of both the Q10 and the Z10. A lot of people complain that QWERTY keyboards don't have enough screen real estate - so this would be perfect. It would just need to be very slim, elegant, and built solid but still light. I think If BB released something like the Motorola Droid 4 it would do well.
    It won't take sales from the q10 because it is going to be sold in countries that offer BB devices on prepay as well as contract so this device is going to help move some people over from bb7 curves etc. rather than those people who were on higher end models, a slider would actually be far more likely to be taking sales from other models rather than generating a lot of its own because it would be a similar spec and price to the z10/q10 and the few people who bought it would have also probably bought one of those instead meaning that they were not gaining from the additional development costs of that 3rd model.

    This whole idea that a slider is the best of both worlds is a flawed one too, it is not that at all, it is simply making different compromises than the other two form factors that some people are fine with and others would not want to go near such as you would be choosing a thicker and heavier device with more potential points of mechanical failure to get a keyboard that is almost certainly not going to be as good as one on a qwerty device.

    As far as the idea of launching a landscape slider that would be even worse still, you would have zero chance of using the physical keyboard one-handed and if that isn't a consideration then these days people would tend to go for a larger display all-touch device.
    Rafski likes this.
    05-11-13 03:07 AM
  5. metalyptaz's Avatar
    Wow. That would just be amazing, probably it will be called the S10
    05-11-13 06:05 AM
  6. Plazmic Flame's Avatar
    doubt theres any life for a slider. we all know the MILAN got scrapped and this patent is precisely the milan on a 45. Check the comparison between the two images :
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	blackberry-milan.jpg 
Views:	1102 
Size:	47.2 KB 
ID:	159903 - Original "Leaked" first MILAN image ( Dec 7 2011)
    http://forums.crackberry.com/attachm...bb10slider.jpg - Recent Patent image (Apr 23 2013)

    Hate to break it to the Loyal Slider market, but given blackberry's intentions to streamline the development models in regards to screen resolution ( 16:9 / 1:1 @720p) the aspect ratio for a full touch slider is too awkward to hold in your hand and blackberry PRIDES itself on providing a feel good in the hand experience for their users.

    For example the Z10 has a length of 130 mm approx 5.1" Now looking at the Q10 length is slightly shorted 120 mm approx 4.7"

    From inspection its safe to assume that the Q10's keybad is roughly a 3rd of the device area so the height of the keyboard is about 40 mm ( 1.6 ").

    So any proposed slider would have the approximate dimensions :
    5.1" in length CLOSED
    6.7" in length OPEN

    Compared to the 9800/9810 form factor which is:
    4.37" CLOSED
    5.83" OPEN

    IMAGINE trying to use that phone.
    6.7 inches while OPEN would be absolutely insane... although, the Samsung Galaxy Mega 6.3 does give an idea of how a big phone would fit in one hand:



    Now I see why the slider might have been cancelled.... ....although.... if BlackBerry decides to be bold and just release such a device, I'll most likely get it, lol. If it's going to be the only device that combines a larger screen than the Q10 and a physical keyboard, I will take two!
    pili4 likes this.
    05-11-13 11:31 PM
  7. vp8's Avatar
    6.7 inches while OPEN would be absolutely insane... although, the Samsung Galaxy Mega 6.3 does give an idea of how a big phone would fit in one hand:



    Now I see why the slider might have been cancelled.... ....although.... if BlackBerry decides to be bold and just release such a device, I'll most likely get it, lol. If it's going to be the only device that combines a larger screen than the Q10 and a physical keyboard, I will take two!
    I dont get what the big fuss is on big phones nowadays haha. I know now blackberry wants 1 handed comfortable use but I wouldnt mind a phone thats 6.7 inches opened. Not like ill be using the keyboard and touchscreen at the same time. Most likely be replying to something if my phone is opened. Phones nowadays are getting bigger and bigger so a torch that size is pretty much normal. I really miss my torch 9800. Was honestly one of the best phones ive used. Im currently using a note 2 but will switch in a second to a bb10 slider. I really hope bb does decide to make one
    05-12-13 03:32 AM
  8. gjohnsto's Avatar
    I think it would be more about getting the balance right than the size. No one carries a slider around open.

    Posted via CB10
    05-12-13 04:09 AM
  9. Rafski's Avatar
    It won't take sales from the q10 because it is going to be sold in countries that offer BB devices on prepay as well as contract so this device is going to help move some people over from bb7 curves etc. rather than those people who were on higher end models, a slider would actually be far more likely to be taking sales from other models rather than generating a lot of its own because it would be a similar spec and price to the z10/q10 and the few people who bought it would have also probably bought one of those instead meaning that they were not gaining from the additional development costs of that 3rd model.

    This whole idea that a slider is the best of both worlds is a flawed one too, it is not that at all, it is simply making different compromises than the other two form factors that some people are fine with and others would not want to go near such as you would be choosing a thicker and heavier device with more potential points of mechanical failure to get a keyboard that is almost certainly not going to be as good as one on a qwerty device.

    As far as the idea of launching a landscape slider that would be even worse still, you would have zero chance of using the physical keyboard one-handed and if that isn't a consideration then these days people would tend to go for a larger display all-touch device.
    Thanks for your reply - even though you've said everything I wrote is flawed!

    So the R10 will not be sold along-side of the Q10? Are you saying it will only be sold mainly in poorer countries (where people mainly are on pre-paid)?

    I think that a slider phone would generate sales from new non-blackberry customers which would off-set the potential loses of the Q10 sales. The Q10 I don't think will attract people from outside the Blackberry ecosystem. The Z10 brought some people over to BB, but nothing significant. I think that if BB wants to reclaim the market against Apple and Samsung, a slider with a lot of screen real estate and a very nice QWERTY keyboard might be the best bet.

    It's the best of both worlds in that many people complain that the Q10 does not have enough screen, and many people complain that they miss the physical keyboard with the Z10. You're right that it would not be the best of both worlds if the device was noticeably thicker and heavier, and if mechanical failure did occur often, as it would generated new complaints. Hopefully it's built well enough so that people do not need this "compromise".

    I agree with your third point, that when using the physical landscape keyboard, you'd be unable use it with one hand. But I don't think that matters. People really benefit from the QWERTY keyboard for longer messages, and I don't think that people mainly type out long messages on QWERTY keyboards with one hand. You'd still be able to use the phone in a Z10 swipe manner using one hand for quick replies.
    Last edited by Rafski; 05-12-13 at 04:24 AM.
    05-12-13 04:12 AM
  10. Rafski's Avatar
    I still remember when small phones were so hot back then.

    BlackBerry 10 Slider - A flicker of hope?-zoolander.jpg
    05-12-13 04:17 AM
  11. knighty2112's Avatar
    Coming from a Torch 9800 I've just got to ask what would be the point of a slider when we have the Z10 already with an amazing touchscreen keyboard! A slider the size of the Z10 with a slide out keyboard too would just be too big and prone to damage easily because of the sheer size.

    Posted via CB10 using my awesome BB Z10
    Brutal Efficiency likes this.
    05-12-13 04:58 AM
  12. Brutal Efficiency's Avatar
    Coming from a Torch 9800 I've just got to ask what would be the point of a slider when we have the Z10 already with an amazing touchscreen keyboard! A slider the size of the Z10 with a slide out keyboard too would just be too big and prone to damage easily because of the sheer size.

    Posted via CB10 using my awesome BB Z10
    I still think BlackBerry should cater for the non-clumsy people.

    Blackberry Faithful - #TeamBlackBerry
    05-12-13 05:05 AM
  13. Skeevecr's Avatar
    So the R10 will not be sold along-side of the Q10? Are you saying it will only be sold mainly in poorer countries (where people mainly are on pre-paid)?
    No, I didn't say it wouldn't be sold alongside the q10 or only in poorer countries, there are plenty of countries that offer BB devices on both contract and prepay e.g. in the UK, so this device opens up the prepay market for bb10 devices there along with allowing bb10 devices to hit the cheapest monthly contracts in other countries too. It is not going to take significant sales away from the q10 because the person picking a 10-15 a month contract was never going to be getting a q10 on a 30+ a month contract.

    I think that a slider phone would generate sales from new non-blackberry customers which would off-set the potential loses of the Q10 sales. The Q10 I don't think will attract people from outside the Blackberry ecosystem. The Z10 brought some people over to BB, but nothing significant. I think that if BB wants to reclaim the market against Apple and Samsung, a slider with a lot of screen real estate and a very nice QWERTY keyboard might be the best bet.
    Your conclusions here are flawed, sliders are not a popular enough form factor to generate significant gains, the q10 is attracting people from outside the BB ecosystem even if it is predominantly aimed at existing BB fans, also about half the initial sales of the z10 came from outside the BB ecosystem so they are making inroads in that area.

    That was probably all they would be aiming for with this first round of devices because they know this is a marathon not a sprint and they have only just started.

    It's the best of both worlds in that many people complain that the Q10 does not have enough screen, and many people complain that they miss the physical keyboard with the Z10. You're right that it would not be the best of both worlds if the device was noticeably thicker and heavier, and if mechanical failure did occur often, as it would generated new complaints. Hopefully it's built well enough so that people do not need this "compromise".
    While the higher mechanical failure potential would not be high enough to be noticeable to end users in general, it is going to be higher than on other devices so that would be something that BB would need to consider when working out if a device was financially viable, as far as the increased weight and thickness, those are an inevitable part of a slider unless they skimped on the screensize or the quality of the keyboard which waste any potential benefits of a slider.
    05-12-13 05:35 AM
  14. vp8's Avatar
    I honestly think damage to ones phone is based on how well the user takes care of the phone. Yes the z10 has an awesome keyboard as i've tried it out at a mobile store but in my opinion, it would be awesome to have the best of both worlds. Having the choice to either use the touchscreen or slide up the phone for a amazing physical keyboard would be awesome.
    05-12-13 05:35 AM
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
    If you have ever tried clicking a small but readable text link in your Z10 browser with your thumb and missed, you know the value of the track pad. It's just a one button mouse... BB10 should treat it just like a bluetooth mouse, only its built in. It would be a great asset to using a BB10 Handheld as a remote when connected to a Playbook or when using HDMI Out... you can look at the projected image and drive a mouse pointer with the track pad, instead of having to look at the device screen. Disagree if you want but BlackBerry fans should not concede the "Death" of the trackpad's usefulness any more than we conceded to apple fanbois that RIM was dead... neither are dead, both may not be to everyone's taste but both (BlackBerry and the BlackBerry trackpad) still have a significant following.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree with you that BB should have kept the trackpad. Another classic BB feature that differentiates the brand and it is useful as a mouse on the device.
    05-12-13 09:23 AM
  16. Oofa's Avatar
    Coming from a Torch 9800 I've just got to ask what would be the point of a slider when we have the Z10 already with an amazing touchscreen keyboard! A slider the size of the Z10 with a slide out keyboard too would just be too big and prone to damage easily because of the sheer size.

    Posted via CB10 using my awesome BB Z10
    I agree that the slider thing is probably as dead as the flip phone to many of us that see it as "been there, done that" but........The point of a slider would be to make money for Blackberry. There are a lot of people that miss this and miss that. If Blackberry can fulfill what the die hard, long timer users miss, like the keyboard of the Bold series, they will keep many long time BB fans buying phones. People always want what is no longer available. It does not matter what the product is.
    05-12-13 09:43 AM
  17. Marc_Z10's Avatar
    S10 would be a great name! I'm still trying to figure out why Z. Q for qwerty and R for rudimentary but Z still escapes me

    Posted via CB10
    I've always considered that the Q was for QWERTY while the Z was for the many swiping gestures on the touch screen.
    JAGWIRE likes this.
    05-12-13 10:10 AM
  18. Brutal Efficiency's Avatar
    I agree with you that BB should have kept the trackpad. Another classic BB feature that differentiates the brand and it is useful as a mouse on the device.
    I don't think they shield have kept the trackpad.
    It takes up 1-1.5cm of screen space.

    However, maybe they should implement it in a different way. They should always make the space bar the trackpad. Unless you were a very sloppy typer, I don't think that this would be an issue. Also, if you were using it while inputing text, and, for example I wanted to add a space between two words that I previously did a mistake on, I could scroll up using the space bar, click it once to confirm the position of where I was typing, and then click again to spacebar. I think that would be the o lyrics 'problem' and then there is the solution.

    Blackberry Faithful - #TeamBlackBerry
    05-12-13 10:17 AM
  19. hnguyen's Avatar
    The slider should be the size of the Q10, not the size of the Z10.

    The screen ratio would still be 16:9.

    Posted via CB10
    05-12-13 10:19 AM
  20. Plazmic Flame's Avatar
    The slider should be the size of the Q10, not the size of the Z10.

    The screen ratio would still be 16:9.

    Posted via CB10
    What??? I think you need to explain in more detail because that would be a bad device to use...

    Are you saying "the slider" should have the screen size of the Q10 or Z10?

    The screen size of the Q10 on a slider would make them go bankrupt...


    Sent from an Unkown Device using Tapatalk
    JAGWIRE likes this.
    05-12-13 02:59 PM
  21. vp8's Avatar
    I think he meant the slider closed should be similar in size of the q10.
    05-12-13 03:03 PM
  22. Rafski's Avatar
    Your conclusions here are flawed, sliders are not a popular enough form factor to generate significant gains...
    My argument is not flawed as its merely my personal opinion. Im not offering any facts, just as you are not. I personally feel that the Q10 does not have enough screen real estate to browse the web, watch videos, and to be a good camera. I feel that although the Z10 has an amazing virtual keyboard, its still not as good as a physical one for longer messages or accuracy when you really need it. Because of these feelings I have not committed a BB10, but I think an S10 would be something I would really want.

    While the higher mechanical failure potential would not be high enough to be noticeable to end users in general, it is going to be higher than on other devices so that would be something that BB would need to consider when working out if a device was financially viable...
    This is an excellent point - Blackberry would have to get around this. But it has a lot of experience in sliders, so I don't think there would be too many issues.

    As far as the increased weight and thickness, those are an inevitable part of a slider unless they skimped on the screensize or the quality of the keyboard which waste any potential benefits of a slider.
    Although a slider inevitably would be thicker, in regards to phone size and weight there are thresholds that seem okay even though there is some deviation. For example, the Z10 and the iphone5 differ in weight, but no one really cares. If the slider was to be successful, it would just have to be within that threshold. The torch for example failed in that it really had many disadvantages compared to the iphone 4s. The screen was too small (3.2 inches vs. iphone4s 4.0 inches), its resolution was poor (480x360 vs. iphone4s 640960), it was more bulky (depth of 14.6mm vs. iphone4 9.3mm) it weighed too much (161.1g vs. iphone4s 140 g). Also the BB camera seriously fell short - and I think it still does. Blackberry should partner with a camera company... it would be a real game changer.

    Again, I feel that BB should stick with the Z10, Q10, and a slider (S10). If the slider was made within the thresholds of the Z10, Q10, and its competitors (mainly the iphone), then it would be Blackberry's flagship.
    05-13-13 02:38 AM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    General consensus is that the traditional BB slider using a 720 x 1280 screen would be way too long with KB extended. (see Dell Venue Pro ). They need a KB that flips from the back up and over the bottom of the screen ( similar in appearance to the Z10 virtual KB when flipped up).

    Thinking outside of the box - imagine a reversible phone. One side a full screen. The other side a QWERTY phone like the 9900.
    05-13-13 09:35 AM
  24. Rafski's Avatar
    General consensus is that the traditional BB slider using a 720 x 1280 screen would be way too long with KB extended. (see Dell Venue Pro ). They need a KB that flips from the back up and over the bottom of the screen ( similar in appearance to the Z10 virtual KB when flipped up).

    Thinking outside of the box - imagine a reversible phone. One side a full screen. The other side a QWERTY phone like the 9900.
    The Dell Venue Pro actually looks like a wonderful device - unfortunately it failed in its product delivery - it also had tons of issues. I think that those that did get their hands on a quality version of one were very happy with it. I don't think thay size was an issue here.
    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/cell-phone...-7-device/5452

    Id love to see a good double sided phone - it would be very interesting to see a flip device that you describe. I personally think that the motion of this flip is not desired - it is much easier to just slide the phone up with one hand. BB had something good going with the tourch, people love it, now just make it bb10, thinner, and lighter.
    05-13-13 06:33 PM
  25. moody's Avatar
    I've been shopping for two days for a new work phone. I have a 9810 Torch that I LOVE for personal & business use. My boss is getting me a much needed upgrade on my current work phone (Pantech piece of ****). I've been saying for the 1.5 years I've had my Torch "I wish it were bigger". He's ordered me the Motorola Droid 4, but the reviews on it are horrible.

    And I'm no help because I can't decide on a phone because I plainly want a BIGGER Torch - it does everything I need for work - just too small.

    So I wouldn't care if it was 6.5" open or 10.5" open - portrait or landscape - I just want a physical keyboard, large screen, & trackpad all rolled into one Blackberry. AND I want PayPal and Square to make BB apps - from what I'm reading, the OS 10 doesn't have many apps available - particularly banking apps which I need for work.

    Shouldn't be that hard to do - just do it Blackberry!!
    05-31-13 11:01 PM
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