11-06-11 09:21 AM
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  1. jd914's Avatar
    RIM makes most of their money from selling crappy phones to 3rd world countries. I would never expect them to have better hardware than Android or a UI as nice as iOS... they would not be getting a good return on their investment as "superphones" are not (and likely are not going to be) their bread winner.
    THANK YOU!! and well said!!!
    11-04-11 09:50 PM
  2. johnenglish's Avatar
    And how old are they?
    Late 20s to early 30s. My dad got a BlackBerry becuase he "heard people taking about BBM" and he knew I had one so he figured we could chat over BBM.

    My first introduction to BlackBerrys was via BBM. I was looking for a new phone and a friend of my was telling me to get a BlackBerry becuase it had BBM and we could chat with it; that was about 5 years ago.
    11-05-11 02:06 AM
  3. rootbrain's Avatar
    Late 20s to early 30s. My dad got a BlackBerry becuase he "heard people taking about BBM" and he knew I had one so he figured we could chat over BBM.

    My first introduction to BlackBerrys was via BBM. I was looking for a new phone and a friend of my was telling me to get a BlackBerry becuase it had BBM and we could chat with it; that was about 5 years ago.
    Yep and you can chat with sms, mms, email, yahoo, aol, etc. etc. now. BBM is passe'.

    In countries where the government wants to monitor your communications, if you use BES it's encrypted. But RIM has given in on BIS so Big Brother wherever they are is watching.
    11-05-11 02:47 AM
  4. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    RIM makes most of their money from selling crappy phones to 3rd world countries. I would never expect them to have better hardware than Android or a UI as nice as iOS... they would not be getting a good return on their investment as "superphones" are not (and likely are not going to be) their bread winner.
    looks like your new credo

    In fact the dual phone lines of BB product (i.e OS 5/6/7 V.S BBX) will by itself address what you think (correct me if I'm misunderstood) may be a brand image issue. In my point of view, it is an advantage (you may have read Saunders interview on this, somewhere in the forum : there). And things are pretty clear ...

    OSes 6/7 (and probably even 5) will last for years - as they are intended to - for emerging markets with N-1 infrastructures, but also -mandatory- for companies that won't be willing to change their infrastructure ("the Vista syndrome") until it get fully amortized and have enough retreat to consider the new OS+Server+Services are totally stable and running (we're mostly talking about reliability and security here).
    This is typically a huge advantage when talking about Total Cost of Ownership. While even the OS5 devices will remain fully operational, even in a SAFE cloud environment, new BBX device will address the most "be my geek" population and companies (like media/press ones). I don't think this will be the case for other brands / Os.

    Bingo.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 11-05-11 at 05:04 AM.
    11-05-11 04:55 AM
  5. phonejunky's Avatar
    RIM needs to innovate with BBX just copying the other brands and saying oh and bbm isn't enough. They need to add that extra SIRI feature for example or that touch screen with no buttons just a beautiful slab like androids ICS. That added something new.
    Angelo_Campher likes this.
    11-05-11 05:02 AM
  6. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I don't believe people buy the iPhone because it's cool. They buy it because it's the best device for them. Saying that people buy the iPhone because it's cool is just something that small-minded people who are insecure about their own purchase do.
    I really think - and I'm not saying these people are dumb - that almost 50% of its market is not concerned by technical capabilities (my step mother 62 yo is an example). They could have any phone over the market and don't make the thinest difference for their usage. Even a $10 phone will do the trick. But they neither want to appear as dinosaurs nor noobs.
    So - with a little help of advertising and heart-devoted friends or family - they'll finally choose an over sized phone, as one can buy a full 4X4 300 HP car just to go to the supermarket and school.

    So, yes, I believe that affect does a lot; and for those users I described, there's one champion that created the "I'm in love with my electronic device" concept ... and we all know who it is (and I clap my hands, as it is a huge marketing performance).
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 11-05-11 at 05:24 AM.
    11-05-11 05:21 AM
  7. rcheung135's Avatar
    I still think the first phone is the make-it-or-break-it phone. Whether the next keyboard phones that will come out will be another round of waiting and guessing unless they announce it with the new touchscreen phone.

    Then again, this is all just guesswork.

    I just want BB to come out with a phone that is worth the extra dough I'm forking over compared to other phones. How does a brand new android cutting edge phone cost more than a 9900?!
    Last edited by rcheung135; 11-05-11 at 06:30 AM.
    11-05-11 06:26 AM
  8. sam_b77's Avatar
    I still think the first phone is the make-it-or-break-it phone. Whether the next keyboard phones that will come out will be another round of waiting and guessing unless they announce it with the new touchscreen phone.

    Then again, this is all just guesswork.

    I just want BB to come out with a phone that is worth the extra dough I'm forking over compared to other phones. How does a brand new android cutting edge phone cost more than a 9900?!
    Don't you think that the reason the Androids cost less is because Samsung, HTC etc don't have to spend on developing the OS? Android is open source and these companies do not have to put in the huge R&D budgets for software development.
    While RIM and Apple have to budget for Hardware and Software research.
    The cheapest Android 2.2 based phones are available from $75 onwards from the non-organized sector.
    Karbonn A1 price in India, Touch screen Android Mobile review, Features and Specifications | Blogging In Web 2.0 Beta
    The above phone is available for Rs.4500, a little less than $100.00
    Here's another one:
    Olive Fluid V-W1, Best Android Phone in India, Best 3G phone in India
    Again it can be had for a little less than $100.00
    These companies are just marketing companies who get the phones made in China and ask them to load Android as the OS. They have zero knowledge about hardware, software and make absolutely no investment in any sort of R&D.
    Their market is the low income group and hence even their service support is non existent.
    11-05-11 08:51 AM
  9. JAGWIRE's Avatar
    im glad we got so much out there in this topic. the general consensis(so cant wait for spell check) is that most people dont know what they are buying and listen to someone else, be it the media or a friend, so RIM really needs to get the word out on how great their devices are. also that a great phone will not fix all their problems. they need to get behind their product with everything they have. marketing, word of mouth, least amount of bugs possible, product assistance when the consumer needs it, not three days later, and promises. RIM needs to start making promises and keeping them that is the only way we, the consumer, are going to trust them again.
    11-05-11 09:57 AM
  10. sam_b77's Avatar
    But RIM keeps its promises.
    They give us good service, make solid products which we buy of our own volition.
    I don't see the problem here.
    No one can FORCE a company to launch something.
    Its for the company to decide when to sell what. If their current product lines don't meet the requirement of a customer, said customer can buy something else, but the customer can't force the company to make something as per their own likes and schedules.
    11-05-11 10:45 AM
  11. JeepBB's Avatar
    I know lots of people who bought BlackBerrys simple becuase is "BBM is really cool". They know nothing of BlackBerry security, business use, or anything like that. They only got one becuase their friends have one.
    ^
    !---- This!

    From the surveys I've seen in the UK, the market share of BB phones is dominated by youngsters, and their primary reason for having one is BBM so they can chat to all their BB-owning friends. These BB-owning friends are by definition "cool"... coz who at that age doesn't believe themselves and their friends to be cool?

    Anyone who doesn't believe the herd instinct is strong in youngsters is too old to remember how it sucked to not have the same clothes, hair, shoes, and tech as their peers.

    Bucking the herd is a very adult thing to do... and I know folk in their 70's who haven't grown-up enough to feel able to do that!
    Jake Storm likes this.
    11-05-11 11:18 AM
  12. Rickroller's Avatar
    But RIM keeps its promises.


    oldtimeBBaddict and Rello like this.
    11-05-11 11:25 AM
  13. rcheung135's Avatar
    Don't you think that the reason the Androids cost less is because Samsung, HTC etc don't have to spend on developing the OS? Android is open source and these companies do not have to put in the huge R&D budgets for software development.
    While RIM and Apple have to budget for Hardware and Software research.
    The cheapest Android 2.2 based phones are available from $75 onwards from the non-organized sector.
    Karbonn A1 price in India, Touch screen Android Mobile review, Features and Specifications | Blogging In Web 2.0 Beta
    The above phone is available for Rs.4500, a little less than $100.00
    Here's another one:
    Olive Fluid V-W1, Best Android Phone in India, Best 3G phone in India
    Again it can be had for a little less than $100.00
    These companies are just marketing companies who get the phones made in China and ask them to load Android as the OS. They have zero knowledge about hardware, software and make absolutely no investment in any sort of R&D.
    Their market is the low income group and hence even their service support is non existent.
    Read the bolded part again. I said cutting edge technology. RIM still has not come out with industry standard features including dual core 1.2 GHz phone, 1GB RAM, 8MP, LTE phone. Since I'm with Rogers, you can get a HTC Raider or a Motorola RAZR for $150 while the BlackBerry 9900 remains at $170.

    But RIM keeps its promises.
    They give us good service, make solid products which we buy of our own volition.
    I don't see the problem here.
    No one can FORCE a company to launch something.
    Its for the company to decide when to sell what. If their current product lines don't meet the requirement of a customer, said customer can buy something else, but the customer can't force the company to make something as per their own likes and schedules.
    Of course we can force a company to launch something. If a company is no longer competitive, we as consumers will stop buying their products and determine that the company isn't as valuable as other companies that demonstrate a consistent, good job of keeping the lead or with the leaders of the industry. Mike and Jim paid a heavy price with their shares, along with other shareholders when they thought the same way you did by not keeping up with the game. Sure, there's no requirement to follow the needs of the customer, but there's also no requirement for investors or the market to keep a company alive if they show little signs assurance.
    Last edited by rcheung135; 11-05-11 at 11:44 AM.
    11-05-11 11:36 AM
  14. maddie1128's Avatar
    I own a nail salon and about 85% of my clients have smartphones- of those, I would say about 75% have either an iphone or Andriod phone. That being said, when I ask them why they chose the phone they did - the answer is almost always- my friend, sister, husband, daughter or son told me to get it. Most have NO idea of the specs of the phone they have and most have no idea what their phone can do. I had to laugh- one girl was so excited with her ip42 cuz she has siri and thinks now she can see her friend in Germany when she talks to her! ??????????? She had no clue what siri even was.
    I like my BlackBerry and I don't care who has what phone and how much they love them- just don't try to talk me out of my phone!
    grover5 likes this.
    11-05-11 01:49 PM
  15. xanadome's Avatar
    I don't believe people buy the iPhone because it's cool.
    Agree.
    Too expensive to keep it mostly in a pocket or be cool about it.
    11-05-11 04:55 PM
  16. reeneebob's Avatar
    But RIM keeps its promises.
    They give us good service, make solid products which we buy of our own volition.
    I don't see the problem here.
    No one can FORCE a company to launch something.
    Its for the company to decide when to sell what. If their current product lines don't meet the requirement of a customer, said customer can buy something else, but the customer can't force the company to make something as per their own likes and schedules.
    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

    They just finished leading the consumer to believe that PB 2.0 was being released after Devcon and then turned around and released to developers only and let slip it won't be until next year! Plus the QNX devices were promised before year end and Balsillie was quoted as native email on the PB within 60 days. As far as good reliable service
    there was that pesky outage. Whih wasn't the first one (they were why I left years ago. **** there was a BB network outage website to track them at one point.

    There's a lot RIM does but lately keeping promises aint one of them.


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
    11-05-11 05:16 PM
  17. xanadome's Avatar
    There's a lot RIM does but lately keeping promises aint one of them.
    2 things should happen for RIM to save their sorry xxx.

    1. Just give up attempting to deceive loyal user base by empty promises, false starts and hyping up something they can't deliver.

    2. Let the guy who does above (Ball-Silly) go, and we all will be happy thereafter.

    Jim B., the sales guy, has been dwelling on the old conviction of "BB forever" since it was essentially a 2-way pager on steroid and there essentially had been no able competitions. People with new ideas (i.e., a fruit company) did not come into the market until 2007, when the environment suddenly changed. Jim B. scrambled and kept making defensive moves with empty promises while Mike L. understood it as he is an engineer.

    That's the way I see it anyway.
    11-05-11 06:06 PM
  18. johnenglish's Avatar
    I don't think people buy iPhones because they are cool, but rather because they have basic judgement skills and can see they're getting much more for the same price.
    Most people I know have the iPhone becuase it's pretty/cool/my friends have one.

    Sure, some people may buy them after actually researching and comparing the alternative, but the majority of people buy them becuase they're popular and look nice.
    kemj likes this.
    11-05-11 07:47 PM
  19. Economist101's Avatar
    Most people I know have the iPhone becuase it's pretty/cool/my friends have one.

    Sure, some people may buy them after actually researching and comparing the alternative, but the majority of people buy them becuase they're popular and look nice.
    Perhaps, but at least those people did have a choice, as opposed to starting a job and getting an IT memo that said "here's your BlackBerry, and you will use it."
    11-05-11 08:07 PM
  20. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Ditto on the value argument.

    The truth (for me, at least) is that I get way much for my money on Android than I do with BBOS. It was simply more bang for the buck.

    Also, you do what you got to do do be happy. I won't hate on ANYONE who gets a device to be "cool." Cool sells. You have to have value to be "cool." A friend of mine countered my "cool iOS" argument by likening it to the Timberland boot obsession from years back. At the root, he stated, Timberland was not just a cool product. They made fantastic, durable, waterproof shoes. The cool factor was just extra.

    When I thought about it, it did make sense. To be cool, you have to be good.

    I have said it before, and I'll say it again: I think BBX will do little to encourage adoption without a vibrant content ecosystem to back it up.
    metroside and JeepBB like this.
    11-05-11 08:55 PM
  21. johnenglish's Avatar
    Perhaps, but at least those people did have a choice, as opposed to starting a job and getting an IT memo that said "here's your BlackBerry, and you will use it."
    Who cares what phone you get at work? It's a work phone that you got free. You use it for work stuff. Just like my computer at work. It's a pretty simple no frills machine but I don't care becuase it lets me do my work. I have my own computer at home for playing games/watching movies/whatever.
    8230 likes this.
    11-05-11 10:48 PM
  22. KeiFeR123's Avatar
    It would be nice to dominate the North American market but that doesn't mean you can't be successful. Look at Nokia many years ago, they didn't dominate the North American Mobile market but they were successful in Europe and Asia. Everyone knew they had the biggest pie in the market.

    As for RIM, like you said, all we can do is hope and pray. Although I am a BB fan and have been using BB for a long, long time. I have a little faith about the incoming BBX. All Blackberry devices look the same. I think it is time to change the design and form factor.

    I guess it is totally a different mobile ecosystem. It is becoming the survival of the fittest. I wish RIM all the luck.. I know so many people who switched over to iPhone 4s due to the outage. Its a total bad luck for RIM. They did their best but the public apology approach was a little too late. They should have came out and publicly address the problem before not after the 3 days outage. People just wanted to make sure that they won't kept in the dark. I am sure the loyalty could have been there and not dropped BB and move to iPhone 4/4s.

    Anyway, lets see how things go next year....but for now, its not looking all that good. The RIM stocks plummented to $18+ before regaining back to $19+ but in 52 weeks, it went down from nearly $70 to $18.89.

    Again..let's just hope and pray.


    the reason i think RIM's stock is doing so poorly is duento the north american market. as of the movie on the main page that showed the opening of the new BB store RIM is loved overseas. the north american market is what they need to hit big in and getting the newest 'biggest' model out there is what they need.
    11-06-11 07:52 AM
  23. gfr3's Avatar
    the influence of the north american market will get smaller and smaller.
    US goverment broke, most people live in credit.
    current market to be and will be in the future is China.

    There are reasons why apple and ibm is already owned by chinees investors.
    11-06-11 08:21 AM
  24. supper's Avatar
    the influence of the north american market will get smaller and smaller.
    US goverment broke, most people live in credit.
    current market to be and will be in the future is China.

    There are reasons why apple and ibm is already owned by chinees investors.
    Are you chinese?!
    11-06-11 09:21 AM
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