1. the_sleuth's Avatar
    I think you're missing the point. BB OS 10 will be another option for consumers amongst great mobile OSes: Open source WebOS, iOS, Android, WP and so forth. Consumers win with choice.

    I don't think BB OS 10 will win over Android or iOS users already invested into respective ecosystems. BB OS 10 growth potential is the feature phone users switching to smartphones. With BBOS 10, RIM can compete for this market. The dark horse in all of this is Windows 8. It might upset the apple cart for all mobile OSes. It is the first OS between PC, Tablet and smartphone.

    Enthusiasm is great. And I very much admire it from many posters here, but in my real honest opinion, its hard for me to see bb10 being a marvel of tech suggested by the op.

    QNX was purchased halfway done and is gonna take almost a full 2 years to be fully implemented by bb? That's not quite so marvelous to me. And its not like other platforms are sitting by waiting for RIM to release bb10. By the time it releases the competition would have moved on to new versions, while RIM would have still been working on the same OS for 20 months? And looking at BB10 right now, it has very poor dev tools, and by the time it hits the market fully -- assuming consumer interest will be peaked --application and developer support won't be there from the start. So even if QNX is he best thing since sliced bread, if it doesn't come out the box blazing gunfire, it probably won't seem so great. RIM must get those big time applications such as Skype, Netflix, gmaps, ect. from the get go. Also moving up that release date wouldn't be a bad idea either lol. Imagine how many people would have already chosen another device by the end of 2012. Does RIM think those people are gonna switch to bb10 after already settling? Only us interested in bb may be the only early adopters, which won't be good enough if so.

    The potential can be there all day &night, but who's really paying attention?

    Sent from the best mobile device ever --Samsung Galaxy Note
    03-01-12 09:43 PM
  2. clvrbas's Avatar
    I love my PB and my BB 9700 running OS 6, and want to see RIM do wonderful things, however the competition is tough! I think Microsoft is getting into a good position with Windows 8 and the WP apps going to work on it. It is a elegant UI that is easy to use and runs great on lower specs. It is also going to be a phone, tablet, and computer seamless OS which is where i see their strength and where they put more pressure on iOS and Android. RIMM has a tough battle for sure and i am holding out for a BB10 phone because i do think it will be AWESOME and go RIMM IN 2012.
    03-01-12 09:48 PM
  3. clvrbas's Avatar
    I agree Windows Phone is the sleeper right now. I have thought about ditching my 9700 for a Windows Phone and using my PB as my tablet, best of both worlds in my book.



    I think you're missing the point. BB OS 10 will be another option for consumers amongst great mobile OSes: Open source WebOS, iOS, Android, WP and so forth. Consumers win with choice.

    I don't think BB OS 10 will win over Android or iOS users already invested into respective ecosystems. BB OS 10 growth potential is the feature phone users switching to smartphones. With BBOS 10, RIM can compete for this market. The dark horse in all of this is Windows 8. It might upset the apple cart for all mobile OSes. It is the first OS between PC, Tablet and smartphone.
    03-01-12 09:53 PM
  4. guerllamo7's Avatar
    BlackBerry has done a good job at keeping an old OS powering newer devices. However, it is coming from behind. QNX was a smart move and the former CEO's gave it a ten year life cycle.
    BlackBerry does some things very, very well. Security, e-mail and messaging. I would argue that they are the best at this but as far as apps and content go, they are only now establishing a real foothold.
    BBM Music, BB Movies, etc. You may say that the iPhone and droids could do this for quite some time and that would be true but the iPhone just a few months ago started offering push e-mail and android only pushes gmail so they were and are behind on this critical issue. I don't have to get into security, if you think the competition is as good as RIM at this nothing I say can get you out from denial. So, the devices have always had a different focus.
    Going forward, the BBX/QNX/BB10 devices are going to rejuvenate this old workhorse. Still the more secure device, still the best e-mail and messaging and now an OS that can truly handle video chat, multi-tasking, serious web-browsing and streaming.

    I'm not saying the iPhone and top of the line androids (the entry level droids are crappy) are not awesome. Just look at Google Maps and Navigation and you would have to be in complete denial to say you would not like to have this type of technology on a BlackBerry or iPhone for that matter. However, BB10 will be a huge leap forward and provide a compelling option to people that feel a bit restricted by the recent iPhone policies or don't want to have everything apple or the people that legitimately are concerned that their open androids are much more vulnerable to hacks.

    BlackBerry may or may not get back to number one in the U.S. I frankly don't care. However, I believe that BB10 will be very competitive and help the company prosper.

    When you think about it. BlackBerry has the best world wide distribution network of the three devices we use here in the U.S.- iPhone, Droids and BlackBerry. When BB10 gets here it is going to be a big hit and it will be a smash around the world.

    I don't know if BlackBerry becomes number one in the U.S. again but that does not matter. If BlackBerry can grow at a decent clip here it is going to be huge. This is good for everyone. Even iPhone and Droid users. Three or four big competitors will keep monopolistic behavior in check and the competition will be good for us all.

    Mike L. created a company with a vision way ahead of his time. You may say that he kind of fell asleep in his laurels but he got it and made bold moves to turn leap forward again. He did manage to lay the seeds for this next chapter in the BlackBerry story even if he himself won't be at the head of the firm he did the work to get it there. The new CEO just needs to deliver on time and that is one good thing Germans are famous for.

    People that bet against RIM have made fortunes. But going forward, betting against them will be a costly mistake. 2012 is the year RIM comes back strong powered by awesome technology, a world wide network, and top security and real time messaging along with great content.

    Go RIM!
    Last edited by guerllamo7; 03-01-12 at 10:18 PM.
    03-01-12 10:04 PM
  5. guzprom's Avatar
    We will see when casacade is out whether it will be the promised api or just hype. Good luck to rim.
    03-01-12 10:05 PM
  6. missing_K-W's Avatar
    missing_K-W, since you're very knowledgeable in this area. I am not being facetious, here. Please educate me and others how QNX is different or more powerful than other POSIX-compliant OSes:

    A/UX
    AIX
    BSD/OS
    DSPnano
    HP-UX
    INTEGRITY
    IRIX
    LynxOS
    Mac OS X
    MINIX
    MPE/iX
    QNX
    RTEMS
    Solaris
    Tru64
    Unison RTOS
    UnixWare
    velOSity
    VxWorks

    Also I noticed Unison RTOS and RTEMS are also real-time OSes. How are these different from QNX?

    Unison Operating System | RoweBots
    RTEMS Operating System | Real-Time and Real Free

    Correct me if I am wrong. The real challenge in utilizing these OSes in mobile devices is poor battery life.
    I'm a tech enthusiast and the only knowledge I obtain is through my enthusiasm and observations and by no means am I an expert...I don't have a computer sciences background in order to go into technical analysis.

    QNX by design and architecture does allow a developer. RIM in this case to develop a fully customizable power management solution targeting specific hardware. This allows RIM to have FULL control over the power management of the system.

    A user experiences the selective power management through intensive applications running in parallel. What I find impressive about the power management, is the ability to fully close applications and restart applications many times over the course of a charge and minimally impact the battery. iOS and Android keep background apps in memory in order to maximize battery life. This isn't the case with Tablet 2.0 which actually requires more from the battery to start applications. Making the battery life even more impressive IMHO. Once RIM opens up services to 3rd party devs, we may in fact see increased between charge life. Given how PB is able to conduct such intensive multitasking and preserve battery life is rather impressive.

    With the RTOS QNX provides. The ability to customize, target hardware , and adapt for power management is what really sets this apart. This is of course by design and architecture.

    Other OS's simply don't allow for custom power management to the same extent QNX allows for. RIM can highly customize based on hardware and the targeted end result they are seeking. Custom power management is a real ace here. IMHO as battery technology allows for longer battery life. RIM will be able to customize the platforms power management selectively allowing to increase performance with out having to alter the state of the platform.

    What we as an end user experience are more performance and capabilities.

    As far as being POSIX certified.....This just allows for comprehensive API support.
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-01-12 at 11:18 PM.
    03-01-12 10:16 PM
  7. kennyliu's Avatar
    I'm a tech enthusiast and the only knowledge I obtain is through my enthusiasm and observations and by no means am I an expert...I don't have a computer sciences background in order to go into technical analysis.

    QNX by design and architecture does allow a developer. RIM in this case to develop a fully customizable power management solution targeting specific hardware. This allows RIM to have FULL control over the power management of the system.

    A user experiences the selective power management through intensive applications running in parallel. What I find impressive about the power management, is the ability to fully close applications and restart applications many times over the course of a charge and minimally impact the battery. iOS and Android keep background apps in memory in order to maximize battery life. This isn't the case with Tablet 2.0 which actually requires more from the battery to start applications. Making the battery life even more impressive IMHO. Once RIM opens up services to 3rd party devs, we may in fact see increased between charge life. Given how PB is able to conduct such intensive multitasking and preserve battery life is rather impressive.

    With the RTOS QNX provides. The ability to customize, target hardware , and adapt for power management is what really sets this apart. This is of course by design and architecture.

    Other OS's simply don't allow for custom power management to the same extent QNX allows for. RIM can highly customize based on hardware and the targeted end result they are seeking. Custom power management is a real ace here. IMHO as battery technology allows for longer battery life. RIM will be able to customize the platforms power management selectively allowing to increase performance with out having to alter the state of the platform.

    What we as an end user experience are more performance and capabilities.
    Isn't these amazing power management properties of QNX why the Playbook has a pretty average battery life with many Android (and iOS) tablets having MUCH longer battery lives (per mAh)?
    03-01-12 10:30 PM
  8. kennyliu's Avatar
    missing_K-W. Your arguments would sound more believable if we did actually have the features that you tout available now. Otherwise, all this is UNREALIZED potential.

    I am just tired of hearing about QNX being the alien technology and the savior of the mankind. It may be something that has nice properties other .nix, NT, etc platforms don't have, but those properties are irrelevant unless they are realized and actually benefit the end-user (consumer or enterprise). As it currently is:

    - QNX is as stable as any other OS I have used (app/software crashes and force closes are present in all major platforms, including PBOS). And knowing that QNX runs the North American nuclear power grid doesn't really alleviate the problem.

    - Security. This may be important to enterprises but for me .... I am no CIA agent and don't care much about FIPS certification (that by the way is granted to other tablets as well, not the same level, but still). However, try explaining how bullet proof QNX is to enterprises who know that rooting is possible.

    - Power management. See above. Not bad, but nothing phenomenal even with the huge 5,300 MAh battery.

    - Ease of development. Sorry but it's only the ease now, no development.

    Again, my point is, as of now, the only tangible advantage to the PBOS (and possibly BB10) for me, the consumer, is the UI. But the UI is not unique to QNX (in fact it's a copy of webOS) and new players are introducing some of the PBOS UI elements, e.g. Windows 8 and iOS with touch/bezel gestures and gesture controls.
    Last edited by kennyliu; 03-01-12 at 10:49 PM.
    heri16 likes this.
    03-01-12 10:45 PM
  9. howarmat's Avatar
    snip

    BBM Music, BB Movies, etc. You may say that the iPhone and droids could do this for quite some time and that would be true but the iPhone just a few months ago started offering push e-mail and android only pushes gmail so they were and are behind on this critical issue. I don't have to get into security, if you think the competition is as good as RIM at this nothing I say can get you out from denial. So, the devices have always had a different focus.

    snip
    this isnt really true at all.

    Activesync/exchange, Hotmail, gmail and even yahoo all can be set up as push on android. Its been like this for years.

    iOS is similar i think minus yahoo but im not 100% on that.

    Just trying to keep misinformation from being spread
    avt123 likes this.
    03-01-12 10:50 PM
  10. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Isn't these amazing power management properties of QNX why the Playbook has a pretty average battery life with many Android (and iOS) tablets having MUCH longer battery lives (per mAh)?
    I believe it is a result of how each of the above OS's keep background apps stored in memory. However the multitasking and platform efficiency is compromised. In reality we can accomplish more in less time then that of Android and iOS. RIM can highly customize the power management in the future depending on hardware. RIM may choose to drastically increase performance in the future for the platform. So it remains to be seen how RIM goes about power management.

    There is just so much flexibility and variables RIM has in power management. I for one hope they up performance. Performance isn't an issue, that can increase exponentially on relative hardware.
    03-01-12 10:53 PM
  11. app_Developer's Avatar
    iOS is similar i think minus yahoo but im not 100% on that.
    Yahoo was the first to offer push email to iPhone users, actually. It was introduced in 2007, but didn't really work correctly for most people until Spring 2008.
    03-01-12 10:56 PM
  12. kennyliu's Avatar
    snip

    In reality we can accomplish more in less time then that of Android and iOS. RIM can highly customize the power management in the future depending on hardware. RIM may choose to drastically increase performance in the future for the platform. So it remains to be seen how RIM goes about power management.

    snip
    Exactly my point. Unrealized potential that is of no interest to the current consumers.
    03-01-12 10:57 PM
  13. missing_K-W's Avatar
    missing_K-W. Your arguments would sound more believable if we did actually have the features that you tout available now. Otherwise, all this is UNREALIZED potential.

    I am just tired of hearing about QNX being the alien technology and the savior of the mankind. It may be something that has nice properties other .nix, NT, etc platforms don't have, but those properties are irrelevant unless they are realized and actually benefit the end-user (consumer or enterprise). As it currently is:

    - QNX is as stable as any other OS I have used (app/software crashes and force closes are present in all major platforms, including PBOS). And knowing that QNX runs the North American nuclear power grid doesn't really alleviate the problem.

    - Security. This may be important to enterprises but for me .... I am no CIA agent and don't care much about FIPS certification (that by the way is granted to other tablets as well, not the same level, but still). However, try explaining how bullet proof QNX is to enterprises who know that rooting is possible.

    - Power management. See above. Not bad, but nothing phenomenal even with the huge 5,300 MAh battery.

    - Ease of development. Sorry but it's only the ease now, no development.

    Again, my point is, as of now, the only tangible advantage to the PBOS (and possibly BB10) for me, the consumer, is the UI. But the UI is not unique to QNX (in fact it's a copy of webOS) and new players are introducing some of the PBOS UI elements, e.g. Windows 8 and iOS with touch/bezel gestures and gesture controls.
    I don't have arguments. I'm sharing my enthusiasm based on where we were....Where we are and where we are headed.
    03-01-12 10:58 PM
  14. kennyliu's Avatar
    I don't have arguments. I'm sharing my enthusiasm based on where we were....Where we are and where we are headed.
    I do understand that. I also find the Playbook to be an amazing tablet. But unless RIM kicks itself in the bu11 and does something to realize the potential of the platform (give the freaking cascades NDK to developers, talk to the big guys to have their apps on the Playbook, have background services available to developers, increase battery life instead of cutting the battery size/capacity for the PB 3G, in other words do everything to catch up with the competition and offer something that the competition doesn't have, differentiate), the Playbook and the BB10 phones will remain being underdogs. Inertia is there and RIM has to do something WOW in order to revert the trend.
    missing_K-W likes this.
    03-01-12 11:04 PM
  15. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Exactly my point. Unrealized potential that is of no interest to the current consumers.
    Isn't the fabric and foundation of a prudent future in the ability to exploit unrealized potential?
    03-01-12 11:05 PM
  16. kennyliu's Avatar
    Isn't the fabric and foundation of a prudent future in the ability to exploit unrealized potential?
    Yes, but are they exploiting it effectively enough? Unfortunately, in a rapidly developing market, you don't have the eternity. I am just afraid that by the time they realize the potential, they will seize to exist. The shares have been dropping even with the company management "turnover" and the release of OS 2.0. It is $13.5. RIM can't wait to realize the potential, and that's exactly what they've been doing so far.
    03-01-12 11:10 PM
  17. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Yes, but are they exploiting it effectively enough? Unfortunately, in a rapidly developing market, you don't have the eternity. I am just afraid that by the time they realize the potential, they will seize to exist. The shares have been dropping even with the company management "turnover" and the release of OS 2.0. It is $13.5. RIM can't wait to realize the potential, and that's exactly what they've been doing so far.
    I understand where you are coming from as your post is the reflection of many people's feelings. Many of which I share myself, however I don't express.

    The only upside to the share price further depressing is the ability for RIM to take themselves private. Sometimes I honestly believe that there is an intention to do so within RIM.
    kennyliu likes this.
    03-01-12 11:15 PM
  18. guzprom's Avatar
    I do understand that. I also find the Playbook to be an amazing tablet. But unless RIM kicks itself in the bu11 and does something to realize the potential of the platform (give the freaking cascades NDK to developers, talk to the big guys to have their apps on the Playbook, have background services available to developers, increase battery life instead of cutting the battery size/capacity for the PB 3G, in other words do everything to catch up with the competition and offer lsomething that the competition doesn't have, differentiate), the Playbook and the BB10 phones will remain being underdogs. Inertia is there and RIM has to do something WOW in order revert the trend.
    I have similar train of thoughts. In practice, developers shuns Bbx or nbx. And in reality, none of the mobile phone have this yet. I am just afraid rim can't deliver surrounding bbx hype.
    03-02-12 12:08 AM
  19. guzprom's Avatar
    Isn't the fabric and foundation of a prudent future in the ability to exploit unrealized potential?
    About the power managent 'potential'. I have not heard that. Any links about it? Thanks. The OS complies with posix.. Sounds to me that its operational is standardized to posix. Performance shouldnt be that different.
    03-02-12 12:11 AM
  20. BoldtotheMax's Avatar
    I believe it is a result of how each of the above OS's keep background apps stored in memory. However the multitasking and platform efficiency is compromised. In reality we can accomplish more in less time then that of Android and iOS. RIM can highly customize the power management in the future depending on hardware. RIM may choose to drastically increase performance in the future for the platform. So it remains to be seen how RIM goes about power management.

    There is just so much flexibility and variables RIM has in power management. I for one hope they up performance. Performance isn't an issue, that can increase exponentially on relative hardware.

    Of course, the good ole what can multitask quicker.....I have owned quite a few BB's and Androids and without question, I can get around on my Androids just as fast as my BB.

    You definitely have a passion for BB, but you really only seem as your opinion counts. You do make valid points, but seem so....I don't know, smug about it.

    I really do hope BB 10 is a big hit as competition is always a good thing and keeps innovation going and striving for more.

    I do find it comical to a point as you seem so sure about something that is not out yet.

    Also you write in a sarcastically way as well. Pot/kettle thing huh?


    Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk
    avt123 likes this.
    03-02-12 12:45 AM
  21. pauldriver's Avatar
    QNX has had a powerfull product for decades, just never the exposure they needed, RIM's purchase gave them that.
    03-02-12 01:24 AM
  22. G-bone's Avatar
    Think about the fact that the PlayBook is awesome, despite being little more than a live test. PlayBook is not BBX: PlayBook is another example of 'Teasers Are Torture '
    Trolls : Get back under your bridge!
    Last edited by G-bone; 03-02-12 at 01:43 AM. Reason: Forget troll acknowledgement
    missing_K-W and heri16 like this.
    03-02-12 01:40 AM
  23. kenshaw's Avatar
    I really like what RIM is doing and I'm excited for their potential but also I'm impressed with the products of theirs I currently have. It was nice to be able to surf on my tablet and then answer serveral BBMs from my sister and not have to pick up my phone. Several reasons you can't do that with other devices.

    I'm impressed with how quickly RIM came out with a tablet, how unique and fluid the UI is, bridge and its multiple fuctions (bridge apps, remote, view on, shared data), and the PBs hardware being a year-old but not seeming like it is.
    Actually, I can sit on my IPad and iMessage my friend, then pick up my iPhone as i'm leaving the house and continue that same convo on my iPhone in a threaded message. Or I can take a photo on my phone and in minutes its on my iPad. Then in Adobe photoshop on my tablet edit the image and uploaded to FB. All that in minutes.

    So bridge and photo on are really not that new and other companies are already doing this with the cloud.

    I'm not seeing anything new being brought to the table in BB10. Other than the NFC stuff they were showing off at MWC12 now that was AWESOME
    03-02-12 01:50 AM
  24. avt123's Avatar
    You may say that the iPhone and droids could do this for quite some time and that would be true but the iPhone just a few months ago started offering push e-mail and android only pushes gmail so they were and are behind on this critical issue. I don't have to get into security, if you think the competition is as good as RIM at this nothing I say can get you out from denial. So, the devices have always had a different focus.
    Please do some research. You are completely misinformed. You are just spreading lies right now. Please, educate yourself before making baseless comments like these because you are 100% wrong.
    03-02-12 02:56 AM
  25. NaijaBerry's Avatar
    Please bear with my little essay here, might be worth a read:

    I haven't read all the posts, but someone could have said this already. I'm a big time fan of blackberry, i just like them even with all the faults, something just makes me love them above all else. I think QNX is fantastic too, but all the fantastic tech in the world means nothing unless RIM knows how to turn that into cash. RIM has lost control of the media in such a terrible way, it baffles me, some things i read and i wonder why are people so negative in a personal way?

    Biggest problem for RIM aside from inadequate advertising is their weak Public Relations, PR these days is mostly electronic and the power of web PR is immense especially in more developed countries, consumer, blogs e-magazines. Check out the top gadget consumer website and you will find that they're Apple centric, an iPhone or Android phone or product has a problem there's a bit of noise, a BB has a fault and its blue @##*(% murder!!

    Let me give an example. I just bought my wife a PlayBook and she's addicted to it as expected like i was(am) to mine and right now she's a star in her office against iPads and Galaxy Tabs (she works in a large TelCo). Someone saw a PlayBook in her hand and said "don't tell me you paid for that, they're giving it out free" and my wife said really where? and the other person said "London or somewhere i don't know"

    Now that person said something that was based on absolute ignorance of facts, but based on what she had heard someone say, she had never seen it or even tried it. PR controls what people believe because it is subtle advertising in the way of articles and news, so its not so obvious and direct but believable.

    Google isn't great with either adverting or PR, but they have a great strategy and a great product. Apple is a master of advertising and a PR genius, thats why anyone that hasn't even tried an Apple product wants one because its become the must have, the in thing, the fad.

    Bottom line QNX with all its luscious glory without a solid Advertising and a deep PR fix will just be another disaster. I would be completely gutted if RIM dies and i mean that!
    Last edited by Olukunlea; 03-02-12 at 05:57 AM. Reason: left something out
    heri16 likes this.
    03-02-12 05:53 AM
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