10-13-12 08:31 AM
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  1. Raestloz's Avatar
    Now, its the random posts like these I like, let me ask you something, do you know how to program? Can you write code? Are you a developer? Have you worked at RIM?

    Think about it, I hear people say "oh it should be easy and done in no time" so often they don't stop to consider exactly what the work entails. Furthermore, writing in some programming languages is more tedious than others.
    You have to admit that the guy has some valid points. One of the points of PlayBook was the compatibility with Android apps, which alleviates the "this thing has no apps" problem

    BlackBerryX will be a completely new environment, and while I like to hope for the best, perhaps it won't be backwards compatible with current Java-based apps, much like PlayStation 3. Compatibility layers would be nice, but I don't hold much hope

    The presence of apps influences casual customers.

    What I want to know is whether RIM is aiming for casual market that iPhone and Android is fighting for or the enterprise market? They're losing the battle on both sides, and I think it should be better to focus on one side first

    And I hope the simulator for that is not resource hungry

    And for Christ's sake, I DO hope that BlackBerryX simulator does not have to go through a painful 5 minute boot up just to run a Hello world
    03-01-12 01:24 PM
  2. missing_K-W's Avatar
    If they open up the kernel or the UI framework, I would be interested in contributing. Those are my areas of expertise from prior jobs I've had.

    But my day job right now is as a mobile app developer. That's what I do. Actually, I'd even be willing to open source a Cascades app or two if that would be of interest to other developers.

    Now will you actually answer my question that you are "more than delighted" to answer?
    The freedom and vast resources is what makes this platform so powerful. The comprehensive nature of exploiting FULL open source developer resources is what distinguishes the developer resources from the pack.

    The most comprehensive HTML5 resources and the ability of RIM to lead in this demographic is a testament to the platforms, ability to adapt to this technology so swiftly is paramount to what the future will bring. WebWorks will allow a base that will compound exponentially through the future enabling devs to leverage vast resources and solidify escalated ROI. There are devs who are currently utilizing the cloud with WebWorks allowing them to port apps in not days or hours.....however minutes. This is huge!

    The C/C++ library support and the extensive languages with exploiting a deep POSIX nature is allowing effortless content creation and porting of existing resources. POSIX certified nature will ensure that if you need a library....it will be supported.

    Extensive API support (many have to be omitted due to BB10 vertical and lateral integration). Abilities to build extentions/API's are a huge plus to leverage the full open source nature.

    "Zero Latency" with the OS allows for resource intensive applications to be created. Performance will not suffer as very intensive content will be created.

    What becomes very valuable is the freedom the platform allows to deploy content based on sdk's that best suit the creator, allowing for a stream lined process. We here many stories of how devs are shocked/impressed at just how fast the turn around is from design-deployment.

    Lastly. What I feel is the most "powerful" . Is the business model RIM has established. If there is something that RIM doesn't officially support. RIM is "emphasizing strongly" to bring over your libraries, resources etc. This is a platform with infinite potential that allows for an "X-factor", compunding exponentially allowing for the total to become much, much greater then the sum of each part.

    As a dev. Instead of waiting aimlessly for certain pieces to fall in place, contribute to the community with the resources you have in order to compound the collective efforts.

    If we want success. Devs should lose the,"what's in it for me?"....and start contributing to what's in it for the ALL. This is the foundation of the platform. There is an X-factor.....exploit this.

    The game changing power will come when DMP , QNX Persistent Publish/Subscribe,etc is available to 3rd parties to exploit.

    This is a generalized summary barely scratching the surface. On should a vast topic. Should we target a specific topic? Powerful leaves an infant set of possibilities.

    Apple and Microsoft set stringent rules and guidelines for devs.....IMHO due to platform limitations. RIM on the other hand is encouraging devs to push the infinite boundaries of what's possible. I guess it really comes down to whether a dev is an active or passive contributor....The later will most likely see no benefit or the intrinsic nature.
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-01-12 at 06:50 PM.
    03-01-12 06:46 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    The freedom and vast resources is what makes this platform so powerful. The comprehensive nature of exploiting FULL open source developer resources is what distinguishes the developer resources from the pack.
    You realize they haven't open sourced everything, right? And you realize other development environments also have major open source components. Like Eclipse for example, for Android. Or LLVM for Apple. And Apple's new libC++. Or even things like accelerate.

    The most comprehensive HTML5 resources and the ability of RIM to lead in this demographic is a testament to the platforms, ability to adapt to this technology so swiftly is paramount to what the future will bring. WebWorks will allow a base that will compound exponentially through the future enabling devs to leverage vast resources and solidify escalated ROI. There are devs who are currently utilizing the cloud with WebWorks allowing them to port apps in not days or hours.....however minutes. This is huge!
    Not really different or better than any number of other HTML5 dev tools.

    The C/C++ library support and the extensive languages with exploiting a deep POSIX nature is allowing effortless content creation and porting of existing resources. POSIX certified nature will ensure that if you need a library....it will be supported.
    C/C++ libraries are supported on Android and on iOS. What is a "POSIX nature" exactly?

    Extensive API support (many have to be omitted due to BB10 vertical and lateral integration). Abilities to build extentions/API's are a huge plus to leverage the full open source nature.
    The APIs available to us now on PB are a fraction of what is available on Win 8, WP7, iOS, and Android. It's not even close.

    "Zero Latency" with the OS allows for resource intensive applications to be created. Performance will not suffer as very intensive content will be created.
    What on earth does this even mean??

    What becomes very valuable is the freedom the platform allows to deploy content based on sdk's that best suit the creator, allowing for a stream lined process. We here many stories of how devs are shocked/impressed at just how fast the turn around is from design-deployment.
    Oh, good, the superiority is based on stories you heard.

    Lastly. What I feel is the most "powerful" . Is the business model RIM has established. If there is something that RIM doesn't officially support. RIM is "emphasizing strongly" to bring over your libraries, resources etc. This is a platform with infinite potential that allows for an "X-factor", compunding exponentially allowing for the total to become much, much greater then the sum of each part.
    You can bring in external libraries in any of the other development tools also. This is not new. This is not even close to new. Look on github and search for iOS or Android.

    As a dev. Instead of waiting aimlessly for certain pieces to fall in place, contribute to the community with the resources you have in order to compound the collective efforts.

    If we want success. Devs should lose the,"what's in it for me?"....and start contributing to what's in it for the ALL. This is the foundation of the platform. There is an X-factor.....exploit this.
    RIM needs developers more than developers need RIM. And how are we supposed to even contribute to Cascades (which we need) if they won't share that with us?

    Maybe RIM should put their money where their marketing mouth is and open source Cascades?

    If they open source Cascades then I'll start to believe the marketing nonsense about their commitment to open source.

    The game changing power will come when DMP , QNX Persistent Publish/Subscribe,etc is available to 3rd parties to exploit.

    This is a generalized summary barely scratching the surface. On should a vast topic. Should we target a specific topic? Powerful leaves an infant set of possibilities.
    More promises of things "in the future".

    Yes, let's narrow this to a specific topic. Why doesn't RIM open source Cascades? If all you've said is true, then there is no reason they can't open Cascades today and let us all contribute. If they wont' open that, then doesn't all this talk of "openness" amount to a hill of beans?

    Apple and Microsoft set stringent rules and guidelines for devs.....IMHO due to platform limitations. RIM on the other hand is encouraging devs to push the infinite boundaries of what's possible.
    That doesn't make the tools more powerful, it just means it's a free-for-all. Task killers, reboots, and security wipes all around. Joy.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 03-01-12 at 07:01 PM.
    shupor and heri16 like this.
    03-01-12 06:58 PM
  4. missing_K-W's Avatar
    @App_Developer

    Zero Latency=(Definition-Situation or state in the development of information technology infrastructure where no time is lost in exchange of information from one interface to another, or where the system responds instantly to an input of information)

    "Posix nature"(please refer to context) Whereas the others are "POSIX compliant"....QNX is POSIX certified....I would assume a man of your caliber would be aware of what this implies....Apparently not however.

    Oh, good, the superiority is based on stories you heard.
    Sarcasm....this just renders any future debate void. I just can't allow myself to degrade the integrity of discussion. Sarcasm also derails continuity. What does it really bring other then showing a weakness to ones credibility.

    More promises of things "in the future".
    Certain API's aren't present due to BB10 lateral and vertical integration.

    Not really different or better than any number of other HTML5 dev tools.
    The inclusion of WebGL and 354+9 html5 Scores on a platform only 10 months old compared to a certain fruit company that struck nerves with their HTML5 references...
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-01-12 at 07:29 PM.
    Dapper37, recompile and jkomo001 like this.
    03-01-12 07:23 PM
  5. guzprom's Avatar
    Qnx WAS open sourced but taken down After rim took over. And if api and overall bbx coding experience is so easy, they won't create cascade in the first place. Zero latency refers to the superapps which has super priority.. This one is they one I have questions about.. What happens to the other procceses? Is this worth itto change OS altogether? Posix is common OS interface standard api.. No biggie.
    03-01-12 07:36 PM
  6. BB_Bmore's Avatar
    brb need more popcorn!!
    03-01-12 07:38 PM
  7. guzprom's Avatar
    Originally Posted bymissing_K-W:The freedom and vast resources is what makes this platform so powerful. The comprehensive nature of exploiting FULL open source developer resources is what distinguishes the developer resources from the pack.

    I have to disagree here... Ios and android has those since they are basically linux amd osx with their mature SDK. Qnx had libraries for embedded chips in nuclear reactor, not exactly comprehensive, rim has to port or make things from scratch..
    03-01-12 07:47 PM
  8. donnation's Avatar
    Jesus, it's this type of patting on the back that got RIM in trouble in the first place. I don't praise RIM and you shouldn't either. They need to get their asses in gear and get a new PHONE to the market ASAP.

    BB10 an achievement?? It hasn't even been released on a phone yet. By the time it does will anyone care?
    heri16, kennyliu, avt123 and 4 others like this.
    03-01-12 07:56 PM
  9. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Originally Posted bymissing_K-W:The freedom and vast resources is what makes this platform so powerful. The comprehensive nature of exploiting FULL open source developer resources is what distinguishes the developer resources from the pack.

    I have to disagree here... Ios and android has those since they are basically linux amd osx with their mature SDK. Qnx had libraries for embedded chips in nuclear reactor, not exactly comprehensive, rim has to port or make things from scratch..
    I was referring to how easily it is for 3rd parties to utilize what is existing for 3rd party means.

    As far as RIM in house development is concerned......starting from scratch is a plus IMHO....Everything is current and up to date
    03-01-12 07:57 PM
  10. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Jesus, it's this type of patting on the back that got RIM in trouble in the first place. I don't praise RIM and you shouldn't either. They need to get their asses in gear and get a new PHONE to the market ASAP.

    BB10 an achievement?? It hasn't even been released on a phone yet. By the time it does will anyone care?
    No one is patting anyone on the back....No other company has to tie into an NOC...Think about that....That increases the workload "x+y=_____".....

    Now the partitioning of the OS....That deserves some patting on the back
    03-01-12 08:02 PM
  11. missing_K-W's Avatar
    Originally Posted bymissing_K-W:The freedom and vast resources is what makes this platform so powerful. The comprehensive nature of exploiting FULL open source developer resources is what distinguishes the developer resources from the pack.

    I have to disagree here... Ios and android has those since they are basically linux amd osx with their mature SDK. Qnx had libraries for embedded chips in nuclear reactor, not exactly comprehensive, rim has to port or make things from scratch..
    You'd be surprised at what they have been doing as far as graphics and multimedia is concerned over the years.

    I encourage some research ....there is just so much more to expand your awareness on the topic as opposed to a select few on CB that provide articles, links etc. for those that are interested of course....

    Many on the forum over a year ago thought I was being far fetched when I suggested that the dev platform was targeting targeting full open source development, including Qt, Python etc. Turns out that is in fact the case 1 year later.

    I suggest people just research what QNX supports as opposed to what you think it supports. Many will become very surprised
    Last edited by missing_K-W; 03-01-12 at 08:14 PM.
    03-01-12 08:09 PM
  12. moe1up's Avatar
    To the OP....I can't tell if you first post was delivered as serious facts and opinions or smug sarcasm, but either way...I like it!
    03-01-12 08:40 PM
  13. missing_K-W's Avatar
    To the OP....I can't tell if you first post was delivered as serious facts and opinions or smug sarcasm, but either way...I like it!
    I don't do sarcasm
    03-01-12 08:48 PM
  14. heri16's Avatar
    I agree that without Cascades official release, blackberry will die. Right now I am making an application for blackberry playbook, and it just startles me how so little boilerplate code there is. Smooth animations and widgets (which are by-default on iOS & Android through a single line of code), nah. RIM expects you to write every single code from scratch and at low-level (e.g. OpenGL or HTML5 Canvas). This only works for game developers (who have things like Unity-3D game engine to use to build interfaces), but not for general app developers like me (who create great utilities like Social apps or Web Media players).

    (By the way, Alice.js is also a crappy unusable teaser.)

    QNX is doing well as an original command-line kernel, used for military and car dashboards, now built up with an Adobe-Flash-inspired GUI, but TAT is not matching up. ) TAT is the biggest problem - all talk, no action.

    Someone should forward this to a RIM guy. Or even make a petition. (Belief me, Netflix will not budge if they have no great UI library to build on. At most the current petition will only result in a shortcut home icon that goes to the netflix website.) Who cares for Windows 7 phones if not for Metro. After all an operating system is just an empty shell. And who would care for Blackberry QNX OS, If not for TAT's Never-to-be-released Cascades.

    Ain't whatever I'm saying making sense to you?
    Last edited by heri16; 03-01-12 at 08:57 PM.
    addicted44 likes this.
    03-01-12 08:48 PM
  15. ADozenEggs@aol.com's Avatar
    I don't do sarcasm
    You don't seem to do reality either.

    Cheers!
    BoldtotheMax likes this.
    03-01-12 08:56 PM
  16. guzprom's Avatar
    @missing-kw: I am rooting for rim like you are.. But.. creating things from scratch.. I don't think you do programming do you? Qt etc are basics.. Mature sdk's what attract developer. We hope cascade will be the difference.. The previous guys were dev, their input is imp for rim's future.
    03-01-12 08:59 PM
  17. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    I enjoyed a bowl of mac n' cheese with toast, while L'ing O L about some of these replies to the post, with hollow questions like, "what's so powerful about qnx" - if you don't know, guess you gotta ask - or - what's next? something about brownies and points... Not sure, just a guess, I'm going green to smoke a joint, without a sweater vest.

    Anyways.
    missing_K-W likes this.
    03-01-12 08:59 PM
  18. missing_K-W's Avatar
    I agree that without Cascades official release, blackberry will die. Right now I am making an application for blackberry playbook, and it just startles me how so little boilerplate code there is. Smooth animations and widgets (which are by-default on iOS & Android through a single line of code), nah. RIM expects you to write every single code from scratch and at low-level (e.g. OpenGL). This only works for game developers (who have things like Unity-3D game engine to use to build interfaces), but not for general app developers like me (who create great utilities like Social apps or Web Media players).

    (By the way, Alice.js is also a crappy unusable teaser.)

    QNX is doing well as an original command-line kernel, used for military and car dashboards, now built up with an Adobe-Flash-inspired GUI, but TAT is not matching up. ) TAT is the biggest problem - all talk, no action.

    Someone should forward this to a RIM guy. Or even make a petition. (Belief me, Netflix will not budge if they have no great UI library to build on. At most the current petition will only result in a shortcut home icon that goes to the netflix website.) Who cares for Windows 7 phones if not for Metro. After all an operating system is just an empty shell. And who would care for Blackberry QNX OS, If not for TAT's Never-to-be-released Cascades.

    Ain't whatever I'm saying making sense to you?
    TAT Cascades is a major undertaking on its own accord, involving 10's of millions of lines of code....Somewhat comparable to an OS overhaul.

    The saving grace will be the development flexibility and time saved for devs...Cascades needs to be a turn key venture. I believe that this will be a real gem and ace up RIM's sleeve.
    heri16 likes this.
    03-01-12 09:00 PM
  19. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    The fact people spend so much energy talking good or bad about rim is what's astonishing

    If rim really "didn't matter" - they'd have no haters
    heri16 likes this.
    03-01-12 09:02 PM
  20. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    TAT Cascades is a major undertaking on its own accord, involving 10's of millions of lines of code....Somewhat comparable to an OS overhaul.

    The saving grace will be the development flexibility and time saved for devs...Cascades needs to be a turn key venture. I believe that this will be a real gem and ace up RIM's sleeve.
    Couldn't agree with you more or thought of a better way to say it. Like the cut of your jib, kid. LOL

    I'm an 1800's gold prospector

    Good posts bonanza, I agree 100 percentoid
    Last edited by buckwylder; 03-01-12 at 09:08 PM.
    heri16 likes this.
    03-01-12 09:03 PM
  21. purijagmohan's Avatar
    RIM should have paid Oracle whatever they asked for it to bring Java to QNX. Java would kill c, c++ developer any day of the week in terms of availability of developer resources.It's also a shame that Oracle is killing java through their greediness.Java was so primed to take over in mobile space.I agree that Android provides a fork but even that is not as smooth a transition as pure play Java in a mobile OS.
    03-01-12 09:04 PM
  22. missing_K-W's Avatar
    You don't seem to do reality either.

    Cheers!
    Expand and enlighten myself on the matter please
    03-01-12 09:06 PM
  23. missing_K-W's Avatar
    @missing-kw: I am rooting for rim like you are.. But.. creating things from scratch.. I don't think you do programming do you? Qt etc are basics.. Mature sdk's what attract developer. We hope cascade will be the difference.. The previous guys were dev, their input is imp for rim's future.
    As far as programming is concerned I'm in the beginning stages and trying to learn as much as possible.

    Maturity and an infant platform really do oppose each other. The real issue is what will it take to increase the path of maturity in regards to the SDK's.

    It's the vertical and horizontal integration of BB10 and it's imminent release that will remedy most of the frustration.
    03-01-12 09:13 PM
  24. missing_K-W's Avatar
    RIM should have paid Oracle whatever they asked for it to bring Java to QNX. Java would kill c, c++ developer any day of the week in terms of availability of developer resources.It's also a shame that Oracle is killing java through their greediness.Java was so primed to take over in mobile space.I agree that Android provides a fork but even that is not as smooth a transition as pure play Java in a mobile OS.
    What is the current state of the Google/Oracle dispute. ?

    Licensing Java would most likely be a multi-billion dollar affair. I don't follow Oracle so I am unaware of the scene.
    03-01-12 09:16 PM
  25. the_sleuth's Avatar
    missing_K-W, since you're very knowledgeable in this area. I am not being facetious, here. Please educate me and others how QNX is different or more powerful than other POSIX-compliant OSes:

    A/UX
    AIX
    BSD/OS
    DSPnano
    HP-UX
    INTEGRITY
    IRIX
    LynxOS
    Mac OS X
    MINIX
    MPE/iX
    QNX
    RTEMS
    Solaris
    Tru64
    Unison RTOS
    UnixWare
    velOSity
    VxWorks

    Also I noticed Unison RTOS and RTEMS are also real-time OSes. How are these different from QNX?

    Unison Operating System | RoweBots
    RTEMS Operating System | Real-Time and Real Free

    Correct me if I am wrong. The real challenge in utilizing these OSes in mobile devices is poor battery life.

    Many development API's won't drop until BB10 infrastructure is in place. By this I imply the Super App nature of standalone devices, integration of satellite, remote, secondary devices, cloud, networking,NOC etc....2.0 requires more pieces in place in order to be of full potential. Should definitely see some cool dev front developments over the coming months.

    2.0 did coincide with multiple launches such as a revamped dev site etc.....The pieces are falling in place and compounding.IMHO through my observations
    03-01-12 09:23 PM
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