1. conite's Avatar
    My point was...and still is...not about using the theoretical long term viability of the company as a basis for a purchase decision. It's about the device itself, the product offering on its own terms. The Essential just happens to be, in my opinion, a better product than anything currently available from BBMo. You can take cheap shots at Essential 'the company' all you want, or make extremely weak arguments about how BBMo is supposedly in a more stable position. It's too bad you can't fault the Essential device other than seeking (in vain) to discredit the company somehow, but that's not my problem.

    And by the way, I never asked you why you bought your KeyONE nor to justify your purchase decision, so I'm not sure what you are trying to prove?
    You misunderstand - I am not discrediting the Essential or the company. It's just a very different business model that is not compatible with what BlackBerry Mobile is trying to achieve - which also makes it impossible for BBMo to produce the kind of device you are looking for.

    If I were to buy a non-BlackBerry-branded device, I would consider the Essential, but the headphone jack on the OnePlus, and the uncertainty surrounding Essential, would probably win out.
    01-30-18 11:59 AM
  2. danfrancisco's Avatar
    But I will say that I wouldn't buy an Essential phone if it was half the price of a KEYᵒⁿᵉ. It just doesn't have what I'm looking for. Thankfully we all have options.
    I've had my eye on the Essential phone since the price drop. However, even with the latest Koodo and Telus drop bringing it down to $460 CAD, I can't find myself pulling the trigger. What's keeping me intrigued and looking for a good deal is Essential's build quality. It is one slick looking device! If I can get one for less than $300, than I will totally trick it out with all of BB's software and then slap a BB logo on the back!
    01-30-18 12:07 PM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    For me Essential ticks off all the boxes...great hardware, top notch design and build quality, close to stock Android with no bloat, and 2 years OS / 3 years patch support. If BBMo did the same they would have my business; the extra BlackBerry security and BlackBerry apps would be icing on the cake. I haven't entirely written them off yet... but when all they seem to really care about is battery life, and perhaps the appearance of durability...it seems BBMo is not interested in a device of that callibre. At least not yet anyway.
    But don't you also want a rootable device? The chances of that from BlackBerry Mobile are pretty slim.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-30-18 12:17 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    If I were to buy a non-BlackBerry-branded device, I would consider the Essential, but the headphone jack on the OnePlus, and the uncertainty surrounding Essential, would probably win out.
    For me, the headphone jack is an absolute requirement. Also, except as a personal device to enjoy fooling around with, I want every possible security switch on Android turned on the way BlackBerry does it.


    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-30-18 12:21 PM
  5. panopticon's Avatar
    You misunderstand - I am not discrediting the Essential or the company. It's just a very different business model that is not compatible with what BlackBerry Mobile is trying to achieve - which also makes it impossible for BBMo to produce the kind of device you are looking for.

    If I were to buy a non-BlackBerry-branded device, I would consider the Essential, but the headphone jack on the OnePlus, and the uncertainty surrounding Essential, would probably win out.
    OK, fair enough. Perhaps I did misread it. At any rate, as I have expressed many times it's not that I have anything against BBMo or TCL. I would like to see them succeed, and I would still prefer to be using a BlackBerry product, so hopefully they have some more interesting offerings on the way and can be more committal about their update policy. There is not much more I can do if my device preferences fall outside the BBMo target demographic. Notwithstanding I will continue to support the BlackBerry Suite of apps because I find these to be very well supported with regular updates, and a useful addition to Android and my enjoyment of Android devices in general.
    01-30-18 12:29 PM
  6. panopticon's Avatar
    But don't you also want a rootable device? The chances of that from BlackBerry Mobile are pretty slim.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    No, not in my case because I am seeking out a stock or near stock Android experience. Rooting for me would only be a requirement to remove unwanted apps and bloatware. So far BlackBerry has been excellent in this regard.
    01-30-18 12:34 PM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    No, not in my case because I am seeking out a stock or near stock Android experience. Rooting for me would only be a requirement to remove unwanted apps and bloatware. So far BlackBerry has been excellent in this regard.
    My mistake. Yeah, even my AT&T KEYone hasn't caused problems in terms of annoying apps. Probably because it's not a high volume or stire-displayed device.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-30-18 12:37 PM
  8. brookie229's Avatar
    I believe the reason for licensing the BB name is more about entry into the USA market.
    If that were the case, they would have been better off taking the Palm name imo. The BB name in the USA really stands for BuBonic.
    01-30-18 01:23 PM
  9. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    If that were the case, they would have been better off taking the Palm name imo. The BB name in the USA really stands for BuBonic.
    They already own the Palm brand. However, when they bought it, the phone business was already shut down.

    It's more about the carrier relationships behind the scenes. TCL is looking to avoid origin country avoidance. I'm not looking to start political discussion. Just additional reasons that company spent money licensed on tarnished brand.
    01-30-18 02:24 PM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    If that were the case, they would have been better off taking the Palm name imo. The BB name in the USA really stands for BuBonic.
    I don't think TCL really understood that back then. Neither the consumer view of the brand or how quickly enterprise was already moving to replace BBOS/BB10.
    01-30-18 02:27 PM
  11. brookie229's Avatar
    They already own the Palm brand. However, when they bought it, the phone business was already shut down.
    Yup--I knew that. I was only inferring that the Palm name has a much better reputation in the USA than the BlackBerry name. The pure hatred for anything with a BB nameplate in the USA is a big obstacle to overcome IMHO and that would have been easier with Palm on the devices.
    01-30-18 02:36 PM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Yup--I knew that. I was only inferring that the Palm name has a much better reputation in the USA than the BlackBerry name. The pure hatred for anything with a BB nameplate in the USA is a big obstacle to overcome IMHO and that would have been easier with Palm on the devices.
    At this point, with either brand, we're debating fastest snail or tallest midget.
    01-30-18 03:29 PM
  13. Carjackd's Avatar
    I don't think Essential is a good example of anything... They launched a good device, super premium priced, then realized no one was buying it and aggressively discounted it.
    I see two outcomes of that:
    1- They are not making any money.
    2- They pissed off the people who supported them and bought the product at the release price.

    Anyway, let's see what happens to them, but my guess is their future is no so bright...
    Bang on! And let’s face it. It’s not completely a premium device. They did cut some corners...speakers, lcd instead of oiled, and the camera could have been quite a bit better for the 1050 launch price tag
    01-30-18 10:03 PM
  14. Carjackd's Avatar
    I've had my eye on the Essential phone since the price drop. However, even with the latest Koodo and Telus drop bringing it down to $460 CAD, I can't find myself pulling the trigger. What's keeping me intrigued and looking for a good deal is Essential's build quality. It is one slick looking device! If I can get one for less than $300, than I will totally trick it out with all of BB's software and then slap a BB logo on the back!
    I think it’s completely worth what they are selling it for currently ...it is built well. Probably could have sold a bundle of them with a launch price around 699 , but it launch at 1050 Canadian? They committed mobile suicide . I would be surprised if we see an essential 2. They other issue is with the device , I guess they don’t believe music is essential. Sorry but if you’re a music lover and your bt headphones are lacking a charge you are going to grab one if the other sets of headphones you own. No headphone jack is a deal breaker. The other issue is the 4 to 4.5 hours of screen on time I have seen from most reviews of the device. That wouldn’t get me through the morning.
    01-30-18 10:11 PM
  15. danfrancisco's Avatar
    No headphone jack is a deal breaker. The other issue is the 4 to 4.5 hours of screen on time I have seen from most reviews of the device. That wouldn’t get me through the morning.
    I was on team 3.5mm for the longest time and would fear the day when BB would follow the trend and eliminated the beloved headphone jack.

    However, over the past several months, I have somehow amassed quite a collection of bluetooth headsets and earbuds (I honestly don't know how I now own so many... I guess it just kind of snuck up on me). I am now 80% converted to team BT. I will be 100% converted once someone figures out a way to put in a battery that can last a week without making the earbud the size of a pager!
    Qorax likes this.
    01-30-18 10:25 PM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I was on team 3.5mm for the longest time and would fear the day when BB would follow the trend and eliminated the beloved headphone jack.

    However, over the past several months, I have somehow amassed quite a collection of bluetooth headsets and earbuds (I honestly don't know how I now own so many... I guess it just kind of snuck up on me). I am now 80% converted to team BT. I will be 100% converted once someone figures out a way to put in a battery that can last a week without making the earbud the size of a pager!
    LOL. Headsets for guys are like shoes for gals. In own at least 20, but all but one of mine is wired, and the BT one is just for talking on the phone.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    01-30-18 11:45 PM
  17. The_Passporter's Avatar
    I was on team 3.5mm for the longest time and would fear the day when BB would follow the trend and eliminated the beloved headphone jack.

    However, over the past several months, I have somehow amassed quite a collection of bluetooth headsets and earbuds (I honestly don't know how I now own so many... I guess it just kind of snuck up on me). I am now 80% converted to team BT. I will be 100% converted once someone figures out a way to put in a battery that can last a week without making the earbud the size of a pager!
    I have to say that sometimes a change is only that and can be seen as simply removing and taking away instead of progress. If you tell me that the car can now see with sensors and eliminate the headlights but fully expect me to be able to drive the car in case of a software failure then I may need those lights at night or perhaps to eliminate my entrance as to see the front of my house since I forgot to leave the front porch light on an can't find my keys.
    An emergency brake has been in a car since day one and it is still in the car for a reason, they have not removed it to save money and feed the consumer a line of BS.
    When I have to charge my bluetooth and it's not accessible or they break or whatever, wired headsets have been the go to for many years and I see no advantage by removing something that so many still used more than an emergency brake.
    Pardon me but any manufacturer that builds their device with a 3.5mm jack is the one that's selling me their phone. Period!

    And this proprietary wired connection is also BS, so that an android user can't borrow a apple users wired headset with a apple style connection and vise versa (forget what it's called.)
    Qorax likes this.
    01-31-18 05:25 AM
  18. DamianWarS's Avatar
    I have to say that sometimes a change is only that and can be seen as simply removing and taking away instead of progress. If you tell me that the car can now see with sensors and eliminate the headlights but fully expect me to be able to drive the car in case of a software failure then I may need those lights at night or perhaps to eliminate my entrance as to see the front of my house since I forgot to leave the front porch light on an can't find my keys.
    An emergency brake has been in a car since day one and it is still in the car for a reason, they have not removed it to save money and feed the consumer a line of BS.
    When I have to charge my bluetooth and it's not accessible or they break or whatever, wired headsets have been the go to for many years and I see no advantage by removing something that so many still used more than an emergency brake.
    Pardon me but any manufacturer that builds their device with a 3.5mm jack is the one that's selling me their phone. Period!

    And this proprietary wired connection is also BS, so that an android user can't borrow a apple users wired headset with a apple style connection and vise versa (forget what it's called.)
    Cars have fail safes not for your convenience to use other options but so you don't die. It's a bit of a different philosophy with a hand held device as when it fails it's not going to put you in danger. It may make you angry but it won't kill you (unless you have a galaxy note 7 of course)

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-18 07:45 AM
  19. The_Passporter's Avatar
    Cars have fail safes not for your convenience to use other options but so you don't die. It's a bit of a different philosophy with a hand held device as when it fails it's not going to put you in danger. It may make you angry but it won't kill you (unless you have a galaxy note 7 of course)

    Posted via CB10
    If you don't like the analogy then I can create many more that won't save your life. If you don't agree with my argument on removing a convenience that many did not ask to have removed then let's discuss that.
    01-31-18 08:06 AM
  20. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    If you don't like the analogy then I can create many more that won't save your life. If you don't agree with my argument on removing a convenience that many did not ask to have removed then let's discuss that.

    I think many get the argument, and agree with it for them most part. That doesn't change the trend in smartphone designs to bezel less and thin. Maybe they'd create a "bump" for the jack like they do for the rear camera... but I doubt it.

    Most the experts agreed, once Apple did it... in 5 - 7 years the rest of the market will have followed. Me personally I like bigger screens and less bezels, but I don't mind some thickness or weight.
    01-31-18 09:01 AM
  21. the_boon's Avatar
    Most the experts agreed, once Apple did it... in 5 - 7 years the rest of the market will have followed.
    Is the world that much of an iSheep?

    I hope not, but Apple is responsible for the extinction of phones with removable batteries, as well as PKB, as well as now the headphone jack, and maybe even expandable storage next...

    That's quite some damage already.
    01-31-18 09:25 AM
  22. DamianWarS's Avatar
    If you don't like the analogy then I can create many more that won't save your life. If you don't agree with my argument on removing a convenience that many did not ask to have removed then let's discuss that.
    Apple doesn't like wires. They went wireless not because of market demand but because they want to create a brand that doesn't emphasis fail safes and legacy options for it to work even if the market is not ready.

    Apple knows their role in pushing market demand and they take the leaps because of its trusted loyalty base even if they secretly don't like it. Other follow along because they want the table scrapes of apple and what was once an undesired direction now is looked at as sophisticated.

    This is why apple has never had expandable storage or removable batteries (popular in 2007) because they don't want to rely on sloppy 21st century floppy disks or admit their devices need more battery power. It's about a specific culture they are driving which allows them to monetize things like cloud storage (which is just the virtual cable) or allow them to introduce ridiculous superfluous features like multi layered advanced face detection then charge a ridiculous price for it.

    But who am I to criticize because they are making lots of money doing this and every other company would do the same if they could get the profits. Essential is trying to tap into this market by delivering the same apple sophistication in an Android device and it is yet to be proven. Apple has the ambition and deep pockets to be innovative for the sake of innovation and that's the culture it is driving, I'm not sure essential can keep up to that demand all they can do is copy it.

    Posted via CB10
    01-31-18 09:26 AM
  23. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I think it’s completely worth what they are selling it for currently ...it is built well. Probably could have sold a bundle of them with a launch price around 699 , but it launch at 1050 Canadian? They committed mobile suicide . I would be surprised if we see an essential 2. They other issue is with the device , I guess they don’t believe music is essential. Sorry but if you’re a music lover and your bt headphones are lacking a charge you are going to grab one if the other sets of headphones you own. No headphone jack is a deal breaker. The other issue is the 4 to 4.5 hours of screen on time I have seen from most reviews of the device. That wouldn’t get me through the morning.
    I saw my first Essential Phone last night. I was completely unimpressed. Hated the design and how it felt in my hand. I really don't care for edge to edge glass, and I prefer dedicated control Android buttons. (I actually prefer BB10 gestures, but if I'm forced to use Android, I want dedicated buttons.)

    I expected to like it more, but it didn't look or feel at all like I thought it would after browsing the Web site.

    Just my opinion of course.
    01-31-18 11:07 AM
  24. Carjackd's Avatar
    I saw my first Essential Phone last night. I was completely unimpressed. Hated the design and how it felt in my hand. I really don't care for edge to edge glass, and I prefer dedicated control Android buttons. (I actually prefer BB10 gestures, but if I'm forced to use Android, I want dedicated buttons.)

    I expected to like it more, but it didn't look or feel at all like I thought it would after browsing the Web site.

    Just my opinion of course.
    It's also crazy slippery
    01-31-18 11:10 AM
  25. panopticon's Avatar
    I think many get the argument, and agree with it for them most part. That doesn't change the trend in smartphone designs to bezel less and thin. Maybe they'd create a "bump" for the jack like they do for the rear camera... but I doubt it.

    Most the experts agreed, once Apple did it... in 5 - 7 years the rest of the market will have followed. Me personally I like bigger screens and less bezels, but I don't mind some thickness or weight.
    Perhaps someone here can explain why this is relevant when a USB-C or lightning port has ample spare connectors for 2-3 headphone wires? What is so difficult or technically impossible about re-purposing un-used connectors of sufficient voltage and impedance to a headphone function?

    Yes the fact you need to buy a new set of headphones is annoying but is how is this impacting the audio quality?
    01-31-18 12:07 PM
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