06-22-18 01:11 PM
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  1. panopticon's Avatar
    My question is:

    What made you pick the Essential over any other Flagship Android OEM? What's the differentiator?
    I already explained my criteria. High end hardware and quality of design, and stock Android with two years of OS updates and three years of security patches. That's it. Price is not an issue.
    01-29-18 09:23 PM
  2. panopticon's Avatar
    Essential and OnePlus are the "discount" flagships. High specs - mid price. They have the same overhead as my barber.

    No marketing infrastructure, no carrier relationships, no business sales teams, etc, etc. Box them at the back door of the plant and sell them over the net.

    You'll never see either of them in an enterprise environment.
    Wrong on so many fronts, not even worth arguing.
    01-29-18 09:25 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Wrong on so many fronts, not even worth arguing.
    I'm not saying anything controversial. They are both decent devices for what they are.

    Of course, the 3 year "promise" is as thin as the paper it's written on. Essential is a one-trick pony, and who knows whether they will be here in a year, let alone three.
    01-29-18 09:27 PM
  4. panopticon's Avatar
    I'm not saying anything controversial. They are both decent devices for what they are.
    Not controversial, but not quite correct either. Anyway like I said there is no point debating hyperbole because I'm not trying to prove anything. Just stating my opinion and my reasoning for getting the device.

    Anyway, I can't speak for OnePlus, but an Essential with the BlackBerry Suite gives me a better 'BlackBerry experience' than what I had on my KeyONE.
    01-29-18 09:44 PM
  5. conite's Avatar

    Anyway, I can't speak for OnePlus, but an Essential with the BlackBerry Suite gives me a better 'BlackBerry experience' than what I had on my KeyONE.
    That's great for you, and for BlackBerry.

    But for TCL, they could never be in the position of Essential - for business they need carrier relationships and enterprise teams, and that costs a lot of money.

    In a short time, they have been able to build relationships and sell the KEYᵒⁿᵉ through 120 carriers in 50 markets.

    But this strategy is clearly looking at the long game, and is strictly incompatible with selling devices out of the back door of an assembly building. This is why you'll never see the kind of device you are looking for from BlackBerry Mobile.
    Last edited by conite; 01-29-18 at 10:19 PM.
    Carjackd likes this.
    01-29-18 09:55 PM
  6. panopticon's Avatar
    That's great for you, and for BlackBerry.

    But for TCL, they could never be in the position of Essential - for business they need carrier relationships and enterprise teams, and that costs a lot of money.

    In a short time, they have been able to build relationships and sell the KEYᵒⁿᵉ through 120 carriers in 50 markets.

    But this strategy is clearly looking at the long game, and is strictly incompatible with selling devices out of the back door of an assembly building. This is why you'll never see the kind of device you are looking for from BlackBerry Mobile.
    I don't care what situation TCL thinks they are in nor your distorted view of it. You want to take a condescending view of a superior product offering from both a hardware and software standpoint, that's your choice. I don't see anything long term in TCL's approach. They already have Alcatel and an existing carrier network peddling cheap phones spanning the globe to fall back on and as far as I'm concerned, they are just leveraging their existing infrastructure and the BlackBerry namesake to make a quick buck. That's exactly what licensees do and they are performing as expected. And let's face it, their launches have been nothing to write home about so who are you kidding?

    Essential is a startup company and you can have at it all you want...but it's first device EVER is already miles ahead of anything TCL has put on the table for the duration of its entire existence...the likes of which include cheap WallMart flip phones and plastic slabs, and leveraging that glorious tradition...quite frankly you can keep it. I'm sure big corporate and govenment customers are going be chomping at the bit for a piece of that action. TCL has a long road ahead to get anywhere near the level of respect BlackBerry once commanded in the marketplace.

    Hopefully TCL's "long term plans" include something other than a BlackBerry shell stuffed with cheap parts and at best, piecemeal update commitments. I expect more for the money, and right now Essential delivers on that and then some.
    01-29-18 10:55 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    I don't care what situation TCL thinks they are in nor your distorted view of it. You want to take a condescending view of a superior product offering from both a hardware and software standpoint, that's your choice. I don't see anything long term in TCL's approach. They already have Alcatel and an existing carrier network peddling cheap phones spanning the globe to fall back on and as far as I'm concerned, they are just leveraging their existing infrastructure and the BlackBerry namesake to make a quick buck. That's exactly what licensees do and they are performing as expected. And let's face it, their launches have been nothing to write home about so who are you kidding?

    Essential is a startup company and you can have at it all you want...but it's first device EVER is already miles ahead of anything TCL has put on the table for the duration of its entire existence...the likes of which include cheap WallMart flip phones and plastic slabs, and leveraging that glorious tradition...quite frankly you can keep it. I'm sure big corporate and govenment customers are going be chomping at the bit for a piece of that action. TCL has a long road ahead to get anywhere near the level of respect BlackBerry once commanded in the marketplace.

    Hopefully TCL's "long term plans" include something other than a BlackBerry shell stuffed with cheap parts and at best, piecemeal update commitments. I expect more for the money, and right now Essential delivers on that and then some.
    I'm not sure what you're reading and responding to. It seems incongruous to anything I've written.

    But I will say that I wouldn't buy an Essential phone if it was half the price of a KEYᵒⁿᵉ. It just doesn't have what I'm looking for. Thankfully we all have options.
    01-29-18 10:59 PM
  8. panopticon's Avatar
    I'm not sure what you're reading and responding to. It seems incongruous to anything I've written.
    You're right, it is incongruous to anything you've written. It's called the truth, Lol.
    01-29-18 11:35 PM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I recently read “Alcatel is aimed at the low end (up to the mid-tier segment), while TCL covered the mid-tier and BlackBerry is more of a high-end brand, with devices costing up to US$500.”

    If BlackBerry is going to be a premium brand they have to add value beyond branding. They need to have the features that premium brands have. They just can’t be a TCL phone with cosmetic differences.
    01-30-18 01:38 AM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I don't care what situation TCL thinks they are in nor your distorted view of it. You want to take a condescending view of a superior product offering from both a hardware and software standpoint, that's your choice. I don't see anything long term in TCL's approach. They already have Alcatel and an existing carrier network peddling cheap phones spanning the globe to fall back on and as far as I'm concerned, they are just leveraging their existing infrastructure and the BlackBerry namesake to make a quick buck. That's exactly what licensees do and they are performing as expected. And let's face it, their launches have been nothing to write home about so who are you kidding?

    Essential is a startup company and you can have at it all you want...but it's first device EVER is already miles ahead of anything TCL has put on the table for the duration of its entire existence...the likes of which include cheap WallMart flip phones and plastic slabs, and leveraging that glorious tradition...quite frankly you can keep it. I'm sure big corporate and govenment customers are going be chomping at the bit for a piece of that action. TCL has a long road ahead to get anywhere near the level of respect BlackBerry once commanded in the marketplace.

    Hopefully TCL's "long term plans" include something other than a BlackBerry shell stuffed with cheap parts and at best, piecemeal update commitments. I expect more for the money, and right now Essential delivers on that and then some.
    My question, how do they plan to stay in business? As someone who expects more for the money, that's surely a concern. Right now, they're in worse shape financially than BB was at end of 2013.
    01-30-18 04:27 AM
  11. Trouveur's Avatar
    Just curious why so many are asking for 3, 4 or even 5 days of battery life? As long as a heavy user can get a solid day, why add the size, weight and cost of a huge battery?
    Are there that many people that forget to charge when they go to bed?
    Sometimes you can't charge so easily. And an huge battery doesn't equal to an huge increase in weight and size.

    The more the better.


    Posted via CB10
    01-30-18 06:19 AM
  12. Trouveur's Avatar
    I recently read “Alcatel is aimed at the low end (up to the mid-tier segment), while TCL covered the mid-tier and BlackBerry is more of a high-end brand, with devices costing up to US$500.”

    If BlackBerry is going to be a premium brand they have to add value beyond branding. They need to have the features that premium brands have. They just can’t be a TCL phone with cosmetic differences.
    $500 is not a premium price.


    Posted via CB10
    01-30-18 06:20 AM
  13. panopticon's Avatar
    My question, how do they plan to stay in business? As someone who expects more for the money, that's surely a concern. Right now, they're in worse shape financially than BB was at end of 2013.
    We all know how razor thin the margins are for Android devices. So I suppose even conite's fictional euphemism of Essential having an overhead 'like his barber' and selling phones 'out of their back of a plant' would be a pretty smart strategy, Lol.

    I'm not worried about it. Yes, it's a bit of a risk but no more so than throwing money at BBMo...and at least I get a flagship quality device and flagship quality support out of the deal. Whether they are still around in a few years really makes no difference to me. Having said that, I do like their approach and hope they are still around by then...
    01-30-18 06:37 AM
  14. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    Essential is a startup company and you can have at it all you want...but it's first device EVER is already miles ahead of anything TCL has put on the table for the duration of its entire existence...
    I don't think Essential is a good example of anything... They launched a good device, super premium priced, then realized no one was buying it and aggressively discounted it.
    I see two outcomes of that:
    1- They are not making any money.
    2- They pissed off the people who supported them and bought the product at the release price.

    Anyway, let's see what happens to them, but my guess is their future is no so bright...
    Carjackd likes this.
    01-30-18 07:27 AM
  15. panopticon's Avatar
    I don't think Essential is a good example of anything... They launched a good device, super premium priced, then realized no one was buying it and aggressively discounted it.
    I see two outcomes of that:
    1- They are not making any money.
    2- They pissed off the people who supported them and bought the product at the release price.

    Anyway, let's see what happens to them, but my guess is their future is no so bright...
    I didn't come here to promote Essential. Besides, it's debatable whether BBMo is making any money on the KEYone/Motion (or has much of a future) either...so if people insist on jumping to the defence of BBMo it's probably best to stick to criticisms that don't equally apply (if not more so) to the company they are trying to defend.
    01-30-18 08:00 AM
  16. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    I didn't come here to promote Essential. Besides, it's debatable whether BBMo is making any money on the KEYone/Motion (or has much of a future) either...so if people insist on jumping to the defence of BBMo it's probably best to stick to criticisms that don't equally apply (if not more so) to the company they are trying to defend.
    I'm not defending BB Mobile, if that's what you get from my comment. I couldn't care less about them or any other corporation for that matter.
    01-30-18 08:03 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    I didn't come here to promote Essential. Besides, it's debatable whether BBMo is making any money on the KEYone/Motion (or has much of a future) either...so if people insist on jumping to the defence of BBMo it's probably best to stick to criticisms that don't equally apply (if not more so) to the company they are trying to defend.
    The difference being TCL has revenues of $20 billion a year and has 100,000 employees. They can afford to back BlackBerry Mobile as long as they deem it part of their corporate strategy.
    01-30-18 08:04 AM
  18. panopticon's Avatar
    The difference being TCL has revenues of $20 billion a year and has 100,000 employees. They can afford to back BlackBerry Mobile as long as they deem it part of their corporate strategy.
    Sure, if you find solace in the fact BBMo is dead ballast and peripheral to an otherwise profitable business.

    BlackBerry is profitable now and has billions in cash. It didn't stop them from prematurely ending support for the PRIV and the DTEKs. TCL may have deep pockets but it's board of directors may not have the patience for the 'long game'. The fact is, no one knows and it's almost a sure thing BBMo is losing money...so using the exact same premise to attack other oems is absurd.
    01-30-18 08:16 AM
  19. panopticon's Avatar
    I'm not defending BB Mobile, if that's what you get from my comment. I couldn't care less about them or any other corporation for that matter.
    OK, good to know. Just a random criticism then? Duly noted.
    01-30-18 08:18 AM
  20. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    OK, good to know. Just a random criticism then? Duly noted.
    Just an observation. Take it easy.
    01-30-18 08:21 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    Sure, if you find solace in the fact BBMo is dead ballast and peripheral to an otherwise profitable business.

    BlackBerry is profitable now and has billions in cash. It didn't stop them from prematurely ending support for the PRIV and the DTEKs. TCL may have deep pockets but it's board of directors may not have the patience for the 'long game'. The fact is, no one knows and it's almost a sure thing BBMo is losing money...so using the exact same premise to attack other oems is absurd.
    TCL was always aware that BlackBerry Mobile was a longterm strategic investment that would require years to rebuild the brand and make inroads. It is part of a greater overall strategy to bring its products to the West.

    I have little doubt they projected a few years of losses. Regardless, as demand was double expectations, revenues can only be better than what was forecast.
    Last edited by conite; 01-30-18 at 08:41 AM.
    01-30-18 08:24 AM
  22. DamianWarS's Avatar
    My question, how do they plan to stay in business? As someone who expects more for the money, that's surely a concern. Right now, they're in worse shape financially than BB was at end of 2013.
    They're riding off of Andy Robin's name. It like if Steve Wozniak left apple and made a premium android device, it's going to turn heads and people are going to be interested.

    Posted via CB10
    Gene Fells likes this.
    01-30-18 08:59 AM
  23. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Sure, if you find solace in the fact BBMo is dead ballast and peripheral to an otherwise profitable business.

    BlackBerry is profitable now and has billions in cash. It didn't stop them from prematurely ending support for the PRIV and the DTEKs. TCL may have deep pockets but it's board of directors may not have the patience for the 'long game'. The fact is, no one knows and it's almost a sure thing BBMo is losing money...so using the exact same premise to attack other oems is absurd.
    I believe the reason for licensing the BB name is more about entry into the USA market. Several TCL competitors have struggled and failed to achieve full carrier distribution. Success will be measured in achieving full carrier distribution.
    01-30-18 09:04 AM
  24. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I believe the reason for licensing the BB name is more about entry into the USA market. Several TCL competitors have struggled and failed to achieve full carrier distribution. Success will be measured in achieving full carrier distribution.
    You would think so but TCL had a very good year selling TV’s in the USA market under their own name. They are offering a very good TV but at a lower price point. AT&T is not going to be selling Huawei so there is a great opportunity for TCL to fill that hole.

    They could sell a more premium slab phone under their own brand but with a BlackBerry Secure OS. This is what they do with their Roku TV.

    I agree that they need get carrier distribution in the USA, if they want to make a breakthrough.
    01-30-18 09:34 AM
  25. panopticon's Avatar
    TCL was always aware that BlackBerry Mobile was a longterm strategic investment that would require years to rebuild the brand and make inroads. It is part of a greater overall strategy to bring its products to the West.

    I have little doubt they projected a few years of losses. Regardless, as demand was double expectations, revenues can only be better than what was forecast.
    My point was...and still is...not about using the theoretical long term viability of the company as a basis for a purchase decision. It's about the device itself, the product offering on its own terms. The Essential just happens to be, in my opinion, a better product than anything currently available from BBMo. You can take cheap shots at Essential 'the company' all you want, or make extremely weak arguments about how BBMo is supposedly in a more stable position. It's too bad you can't fault the Essential device other than seeking (in vain) to discredit the company somehow, but that's not my problem.

    And by the way, I never asked you why you bought your KeyONE nor to justify your purchase decision, so I'm not sure what you are trying to prove?
    01-30-18 10:54 AM
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