[Tre Lawrence]

Interesting.

It was quite revealing to see Kevin's response, and then response of others. Could have been a good, mature conversation.

[Tre Lawrence]

For those who don't understand. An Editorial => opinion piece.

Seriously... leave it alone.

[TomJasper]

Dan should be very embarrassed with that poor effort. Not the calibre expected from Mobile Nations.

Amazing what Blackberry 10 does, simply amazing.

[TomJasper]

Interesting.

It was quite revealing to see Kevin's response, and then response of others. Could have been a good, mature conversation.

Maturity starts at the writing level in a responsible unbiased manner, had that been the case I'm sure we would never have seen this thread. It is what it is,some fall, some stand, it's the way of life.

[Tre Lawrence]

Maturity starts at the writing level in a responsible unbiased manner, had that been the case I'm sure we would never have seen this thread. It is what it is,some fall, some stand, it's the way of life.

Here's the thing... none of you love this platform more than Kevin. I'm sure some will disagree, but I've been around long enough to state this with a reasonable degree of surety. So, Daniel (who admits he prefers another platform) states he thinks that platform has an advantage. Cool.

Some here don't like it. Fine.

You have the response of someone who takes in stride (because, at the end of the day, who cares if someone doesn't like what I like?) here:

Ahhh Dan. I feel the need for a cross site Mobile Nations Podcast soooon. Debate!

And then, well, you have more vociferous offerings.

Fellas, at some point, we are ALL gonna have to understand that technology does not have to be a battle. BGR, Engadget, Daniel... just because they opine that something is better should not have that much pull on our emotions.

I know... not the most popular thing to say not, but the hunt for blood has been dismal. IMHO, of course.

Carry on.

[TomJasper]

I didn't get the sense anybody was looking for blood, accountability yes, more so from somebody in a higher position of expected accountability.

If there is any take away on accountability then the thread was not for want but rather an abject lesson on accountability, that in itself needs a reminder at times. No animals were harmed, so it's all good.

Here's the thing... none of you love this platform more than Kevin. I'm sure some will disagree, but I've been around long enough to state this with a reasonable degree of surety. So, Daniel (who admits he prefers another platform) states he thinks that platform has an advantage. Cool.

Some here don't like it. Fine.

You have the response of someone who takes in stride (because, at the end of the day, who cares if someone doesn't like what I like?) here:



And then, well, you have more vociferous offerings.

Fellas, at some point, we are ALL gonna have to understand that technology does not have to be a battle. BGR, Engadget, Daniel... just because they opine that something is better should not have that much pull on our emotions.

I know... not the most popular thing to say not, but the hunt for blood has been dismal. IMHO, of course.

Carry on.

[omniusovermind]

Here's the thing... none of you love this platform more than Kevin. I'm sure some will disagree, but I've been around long enough to state this with a reasonable degree of surety. So, Daniel (who admits he prefers another platform) states he thinks that platform has an advantage. Cool.

Some here don't like it. Fine.

You have the response of someone who takes in stride (because, at the end of the day, who cares if someone doesn't like what I like?) here:



And then, well, you have more vociferous offerings.

Fellas, at some point, we are ALL gonna have to understand that technology does not have to be a battle. BGR, Engadget, Daniel... just because they opine that something is better should not have that much pull on our emotions.

I know... not the most popular thing to say not, but the hunt for blood has been dismal. IMHO, of course.

Carry on.

Fair enough but comparing the direct insults that were slung around throughout this thread with the actual topic of the thread itself is clouding the issue. You almost make it sound like you're accusing me of being wrong for challenging his blurring the lines between opinions and incorrect information presented as facts, just because of the behavior that happened by others, and that's wrong to do IMO.

[digtech]

Its really unfortunate that i can no longer read a tech blog without people being so religiously biased to their smartphone of choice. There is a line between fact and opinion and outright untruths. Yes we know that WP central members would want to hear that the world is ready to embrace WP8 and everyone thinks its the best thing since sliced bread, but that is far far from true. So i think its best you stick with the hard facts Dan. BB10's launch was not as ground breaking as it should have been, but clearly it was received with much better sentiments than Windows Phone 8 and that is only the beginning. Lets see how well it plays out when its on the market as long as WP8.

[Joy1980]

At last count, BlackBerry has 79 million subscribers. A number that has been increasing until last quarter. Daniel, can you tell me what the number of Windows Phone users there are as of last quarter? I will list in MY OPINION, why BlackBerry has a better chance at securing 3rd place than Microsoft with Windows Phone.

1. BlackBerry already has users, 79 million people, that they can upgrade to the new OS. A large chunk of them are addicted to the way BlackBerry does things. Microsoft waited too long before releasing Windows Phone, people had turned their back on Windows Mobile.

2. BlackBerry being both the OS and hardware manufacturer has one device with two variants to market. Windows Phone launched with too many phones which were too similar and caused confusion as to who to buy from. What Microsoft should have done was make that deal with Nokia first and launch with one OEM. Android did it, one OEM and one carrier.

3. BlackBerry has defined who they are going after. They are going after BlackBerry People. I am not going to repeat their PR stuff but when you really get down to it, they are marketing to current BlackBerry users and those you may have left but are just waiting for a reason to come back. Windows Phone, to my knowledge, has yet defined who their target audience is. It is nice to say you are a phone for everyone but explain to me what type of person would Windows Phone be prefect for?

4. BlackBerry/RIM is not a hated company. Some people may think that they are irrelevant or dead but there are not a lot of people who actively hate them. Microsoft (or Micro$oft), on the other hand, some people hate with a passion that you sometimes wonder if Microsoft killed their mother and their first born child.

5. BlackBerry supports the so-called underdeveloped third world countries better than Windows Phone did when it first launched. Only now that Nokia is on board that you guys have phones that you can put in these markets because we (yes, I am from Barbados and we considered one of the underdeveloped countries) buy our phones outright even when they are locked to the carrier. So it has to be cost effective for us. We will buy an expensive phone but most of the features must be usable for us.

6. BlackBerry, due to the NOC support, allows for use of their devices on networks who will probably not be able to handle the data hogs like iOS and Android.

I agree that Microsoft has the money to pour into this venture until it starts taking off, which is a good thing but it is also a bad thing. You mention Xbox and how they sunk so much money in the platform until it became profitable. This could mean that they think that they have the time to make it and will probably not push it has hard as BlackBerry. Some of the best work is done by companies who want to prove themselves and know it. Microsoft needs to prove themselves in this market but I don't think that they believe that they need to hurry to do that.


I am both a BlackBerry and Microsoft fan. I have followed the development of Windows Phone as well as the development of BlackBerry 10. One thing I realised is that Microsoft has yet to understand that they are not the big boys in this market and they cannot expect that just because they have put out a product that people are going to develop it or that they would buy it. BlackBerry knows it is not Apple and does not have the klout. Meanwhile, Microsoft still believes that they can put out a product with Windows in the name and it will sell. Not true, look at Windows 8 and that is actually the Windows OS.

[cckgz4]

Oh is it? You're determined, but keep trying. lol.



Let's look at yours over at WPC:


huh. 4 out of 6 top WPC topics are about BB. That's some funny stuff right there

Huh. You know what's funny? When I hit the drop down menu from the top of the website I get this

Irony. And not only that, the other hot topics are about what OTHER sites think about BB10. Why don't you stop worrying about what others think and be happy with what's going to happen to Blackberry? But no, you want to play victim. By all means, go ahead. You still posting up those incorrect articles about people standing outside JUST for BB10 and not for free items?

And btw, I have an iPhone 5. Solely.

[Dapper37]

"Define poor enterprise support."

Not behind the firewall!

[playbookster]

Of course, those market figures compare the after-launch WP8 period vs. the pre-launch BB10 period. Given that the BB7 devices are aging, it is to be expected that few people would purchase a new BB7 device in GB or the US with the BB10 launch upcoming.

Comparing bb7 sales to WP8 sales is like comparing BB10 future sales to WP7 sales.

[Balti43]

I think the main question here is will the Kardashians pick up a bb10 or a wp8...

[Dapper37]

I assure you that is not the case. I'm not at all convinced that BB10 offers anything better than what is currently on the market. Most reviews said as much too.

I'll gladly keep Nokia over BlackBerry. Not that I think BlackBerry is bad but I'm more confident in Nokia's long term innovation.

I get it, your the wp guy and standing by your platform. No problem! Yet in your discussion. Here you conveniently avoid all the marketable features of BlackBerry, I guess because your platform has no answers for them. Thing is everyone here knows they exist! We also know how much they matter. What's the main selling features of wp???? The fact that MS will throw money at it until they implode? That's what I hear you same more then anyone else! Sorry but, Wp is the ultimate me2 OS and people don't find that attractive.

[omniusovermind]

Huh. You know what's funny? When I hit the drop down menu from the top of the website I get this

Irony. And not only that, the other hot topics are about what OTHER sites think about BB10. Why don't you stop worrying about what others think and be happy with what's going to happen to Blackberry? But no, you want to play victim. By all means, go ahead. You still posting up those incorrect articles about people standing outside JUST for BB10 and not for free items?

And btw, I have an iPhone 5. Solely.

A screenshot of one lone thread followed by some lame attempt at a personal insult is all you have for me? Seriously man, stop trying to outwit me, it's painful to watch honestly.

[Superfly_FR]

Ahhh Dan. I feel the need for a cross site Mobile Nations Podcast soooon. Debate!

With a friendly bite to start with ?

[cckgz4]

It's only painful to watch when you have no clue what you're talking about. And i thought i saw more than one thread with yall whining about people talking about bb10 *Shrugs*

[omniusovermind]

If I were a WP fan, which I assume you are since you're spending an awful lot of time defending WP for a "Soley iPhone5 owner", then I'd rather see threads about BB on a BB website than see 4 out of 6 top topics be about BB on a WP website. If you thought you saw anything other than this thread alone as a non BB related topic, then you saw wrong. And now apparently you're adding trolling to your list since you just referred to this entire community as "whining". You're a real charming fellow. Definitely not Mensa material though.

[sexybabe88]

the best part about this thread is how we don't have a whole legion of WP fans coming in to start a platform war. They're probably happily discussing wp stuff over in their own forum.

because the reverse would definitely have occured. Some people in this thread really need to do some self reflection.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[Neely2005]

@omniusovermind

My editorial/opinion piece was just that an editorial and opinion piece. The last thing on earth I'd expect is for people at CrackBerry to agree it with it. It wasn't written for you, it was written for our audience--Windows Phone users. Everyone is biased and favors something--the fact that you're posting in a CB forum is evidence for that. There's nothing wrong with it at all either. The curse is when people pretend to be objective.

When Kev writes

Do you think our audience was nodding in agreement? Or that was not opinion open to challenge? But that's written for you guys, not us, so no one notices or challenges it.

Besides the Skype comment that was early in the day and which I did not write in my editorial, I'm not sure what "facts" I got wrong. All you did was make a hit piece against me, not what I wrote which I find ironic due to your complaint. But that's your opinion, fine. I'm don't write at Windows Phone Central to convert fans of BlackBerry.

But let's look at my main points, all bolded, from the original article:

• Does BB10 have an app advantage over Windows Phone? No.
• Does BB10 have a larger ecoysytem (gaming, desktop, cloud, enterprise/Office) than Windows Phone? No.
• Is BB10's UI more interesting than Windows Phone? Opinion, no. You can't call me wrong for my opinion on something, sorry.
• Does BB10 face the same obstacle as Windows Phone, namely iOS and Android momentum in the marketplace? Yes.
• Does BB have a strong legacy to rely on? Yes.
• Do carriers prefer BB to Microsoft? Yes.
• Is BB hardware good and often better than Android? Yes (once again, opinion)
• Has the media been more jubilant and positive about BB than their Windows Phone coverage? Yes (even Kevin was noting the positive media buzz just last week).

Those were my main points in the article, none of which you challenge or proved incorrect. Some are opinion so I'm not even sure how you would go about doing that.

Look, I get it. You don't like what I wrote. Whenever Kev writes an editorial here, do you think everyone agrees with it? No, but that's the point. It's opinion and it's fine to disagree.

But step back for a second: do you think anyone outside of CrackBerry treats what is written here as objective? This too is a fan site and the articles here are slanted. That's why you visit and it's why we disagree often on Mobile Nations. That's the point.

So I'm sure that you've gone back and corrected this comment so that everyone knows the correct information, right?




Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

[Superfly_FR]

Guys, we're mobile nationS users ...
I dislike the BB10 article on WP blog.
I dislike to discuss it here.
Use your mobile nations SSO and, well, comment in appropriate sites; just like you/we try to do with forums topics, no ?

[anon(4018671)]

You misunderstood what I'm saying, that's why.

BlackBerry has a hole to dig themselves out of, that's just a fact.

True, but WP only wishes they had a hole to dig out of.

You don't need to be a PhD to understand what is going on here - Windows phone is very threatened by BB. It isn't the other way around.

And on a more professional note - on a recent Mobile Nations webcast you didn't even know about the electronics/computer your new Accord used. What kind of geek are you if you write for a tech blog and are oblivious as to what current and relevant tech is being used for the infotainment/telematics? Phil Nickinson although having to look it up (he doesn't own the same car) was able to fill you in on what your car used.

Clearly you don't speak as a tech authority - which is why that article was written in the first place. Am I wrong?

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

i just had a little sleep. is wp9 out yet?

[Sith_Apprentice]

Here is an issue that should be addressed. Why would you personally attack someone for what they have written? Dan wrote an article, and it seems that many here have reacted negatively. Thats all good and fine. But personal attacks etc should be left out of it. If you want people's opinions to change, being an arse is NOT going to do it. Lay out the FACTS, get them to use the device, show them the benefits, just dont blow up at them.


Dan,
I havent read your article, and I definitely will. I know you are on the Mobile Nations team, and have access to several very well informed people with the devices. If you want a different perspective, an Enterprise perspective, PM me.

[RubberChicken76]

I think people are getting too worked up about this. :-)

Listen to the Mobile Nations Podcasts ... when Rene and Phil are interested in what's going on with BlackBerry (and have genuinely done their own research), Daniel is always highly dismissive and projecting over-confidence of Windows Phone's inevitable victory.

It's a little like how some people play sports. When i was in University, I was playing (what I thought was) a friendly game of ultimate frisby with another residence. While we were waiting to get started in this "friendly game", the guy across from me was being a complete ****. Refusing to talk to other players on our team, being obnoxious about how they were going to win, trying to rouse his guys etc. Wrong guy in the wrong game ... needed to be in a hyper competitive game.

Not suggesting Daniel is obnoxious at all, because he isn't. But he has that vibe "hyper competitiveness" because a) he wants Windows Phone to win; and b) deep down, he probably knows that there's also a good chance BlackBerry 10 will mop the floor with it and is excessively dismissive.

This isn't a dig at Windows Phone (I love it) and this isn't a claim that BlackBerry has this in the bag (it doesn't). But this all smacks of a hyper competitive drive for third place, with the insecurity of knowing who your up against has 79 million users already and despite the best efforts of Microsoft, the traction has been very minimal.

If RIM gets a good chunk of upgraders fairly quickly, they could zoom past Windows Phone in decent time. He knows it. It had to have sucked when Nokia sold fewer Lumias despite aggressive pricing and a big campaign than RIM sold aging 18 month old BlackBerry 7 devices with the world knowing BlackBerry 10 was coming on top of it.