[Bobert_123]

they trying to make me go to rehab..I say no no no

R.I.P.

[christenmartin]

Man I bet apple and android are laughing they're azzes off.

[cckgz4]

If I were a WP fan, which I assume you are since you're spending an awful lot of time defending WP for a "Soley iPhone5 owner", then I'd rather see threads about BB on a BB website than see 4 out of 6 top topics be about BB on a WP website. If you thought you saw anything other than this thread alone as a non BB related topic, then you saw wrong. And now apparently you're adding trolling to your list since you just referred to this entire community as "whining". You're a real charming fellow. Definitely not Mensa material though.

You can't read either.

Oh and I'm most definitely an iPhone user. Check my instagram name, cause we all know what platform(s) DOESN'T support that at the moment

[texazzpete]

you'll forgive me for not viewing your opinion as credible. You always twist people's words and intentions in order to generate dislike or inflame, and the above is a prime example of that. Irony just phoned, they're looking for you.

You mean like you twisted Dan's words and intentions to 'generate dislikes or inflame'? Like how you're calling out someone's SUBJECTIVE opinion as 'misinformation'?
It's always common sense and logic from my end...I can't be held responsible if some of you can't deal with that.

PS: I've been on this forum for a while now and I've vigorously tackled misinformation when it comes to hard facts like misrepresentation of tech specs, sales numbers etc. I've never pulled the 'misinformation' card when you lot pull out subjective opinions like 'IOS is stale' and 'home buttons are archaic' or 'Android is a confusing mess'. There's a difference.

[texazzpete]

Your point about the Curve is very good, but my comment is still the same. Windows Phone is gaining a bit of traction but not a runaway success - especially considering all that went into the NOKIA launch of Windows Phones this christmas.

And I like Windows Phone. But it's success is no more 'assured' than BlackBerry's is. It is foolish to under-estimate Microsoft in any circumstance but it's also foolish to assume they can walk in and win.

Nokia has always been about doing what Samsung is doing right now...take a mature stable OS and release a wide variety of hardware to garner sales. n the Symbian days it was the N-Series and the E-Series. WP7 wasn't good enough for that and it took a while to hit their stride.

But here's the thing. WP8 is stable and has a fast growing app ecosystem . More folks are using Windows 8 and xbox and the Metro UI is growing on people. They had supply issues with the 920 in Q4 but that's being overcome. more critically, now they are rolling out multiple form factors with cheaper price points like the Lumia 620 which at $250 should sell like hotcakes in big markets like India and China. At 170 pounds in the UK, I can easily see the 620 doing vey well in that country.

I still maintain that Blackberry needs to come out with a low cost BB10 handset soon.

There's no guarantee for sure...I think this year's Mobile World Congress should be very interesting, if only to see the support MS can manage to scrounge up from other OEMs.

[Emu the Foo]

Well. Kevin is funny. But dan defended himself. Good for everyone!(AWKWARD...)

[aztec56]

just joined the crackberry nation after the bb10 event i have to say blackberry is headed in the right direction but having read the piece from wpcentral i had to reply now i've used palm os,wp,ios, and now a current android user i have say what i saw at the event and the reviews from kevin and other various tech sites i would place bb10 in a strong second only to ios only because of apps but i'm not about to dog bb10 for that more will come now everyone has there opinion but what was written by daniel was a little narrow minded when the z10 hits your carrier try it out before you read things like what wpcentral writes me myself will be supporting blackberry just ordered a playbook 32gb and soon as i can i'll be picking a z10 off the shelf and putting my galaxy nexus on a shelf good luck blackberry you have a new fan

[bungaboy]

Well. Kevin is funny. But dan defended himself. Good for everyone!(AWKWARD...)

Like your avatar. Love The MacAllan single malt.

They could use a large dollop of it in here. LoL

[THBW]

A good first post and a thank you. Crackberry lives and grows.

just joined the crackberry nation after the bb10 event i have to say blackberry is headed in the right direction but having read the piece from wpcentral i had to reply now i've used palm os,wp,ios, and now a current android user i have say what i saw at the event and the reviews from kevin and other various tech sites i would place bb10 in a strong second only to ios only because of apps but i'm not about to dog bb10 for that more will come now everyone has there opinion but what was written by daniel was a little narrow minded when the z10 hits your carrier try it out before you read things like what wpcentral writes me myself will be supporting blackberry just ordered a playbook 32gb and soon as i can i'll be picking a z10 off the shelf and putting my galaxy nexus on a shelf good luck blackberry you have a new fan

[Tony_Tone]

Does BB10 have an app advantage over Windows Phone?
BB10 is launching with 70,000 apps. 40% of them may be Android apps, but that still leaves about 42,000 native apps. At Launch. Windows RT launched with nothing and according to this source only has 40,839 RT apps available a full 3 months after launch, with only 27,257 available in the US.

More like 1000 native apps, that is appalling and you can see

Does BB10 have a larger ecoysytem (gaming, desktop, cloud, enterprise/Office) than Windows Phone?
The large Windows ecosystem that you're referring to is largely a legacy system. Windows 8 has pretty much been panned by industry so far. The Xbox connectivity doesn't really demonstrate how it can make enterprise/office more productive. And the new BB phones can become your desktop or your gaming system. Just because you've got a legacy ecosystem doesn't mean your customers will keep investing in it.

Which parts are legacy? xbox music with a third more tracks than are available on BB, outlook, skydrive, azure, etc?
No matter how you look at it Microsoft have a larger better ecosystem than BB.

Is BB10's UI more interesting than Windows Phone?
It's not just the UI, its the UX. The old paradigm is just point and click, or click and drag. It's a mouse or a home button. It's very in the box thinking. The majority of the system gestures used in the Playbook and BB10 start from outside the box. They make the entire surface interactive and more intuitive and it represents a significant step forward in terms of the ergonomics of how we interact with our devices.

The reviews dont seem to agree with this, some going as far as calling the UK chaotic.

Does BB10 face the same obstacle as Windows Phone, namely iOS and Android momentum in the marketplace?
No. BB10 already has FIPS 140-2 certification. It's the only platform to ever launch pre-certified. No Windows 8 phone has FIPS.

Do you even know what FIPS is? It is a security certification that says a device can use different technologies that have been tested by the US gov, how on earth does that have anything to with the momentum of IOS or Android?

Does BB have a strong legacy to rely on?

No

Do carriers prefer BB to Microsoft?
Yes. Because BB is known for making quality phones.

Really?

Is BB hardware good and often better than Android?
Better question: Would a buggy app that crashes an Android device be able to wreak the same havoc on a BB10 device? No.

Strawman,

Has the media been more jubilant and positive about BB than their Windows Phone coverage?
Because Metro is UGLY. Face it. Microsoft jumped the shark with Windows 7 and then dropped long term support by refusing to offer service packs to try to force enterprise to upgrade to Windows 8. Blackberry's stock and media reputation was in the toilet 5 months ago, Microsoft's was not. Blackberry is the underdog in this situation and Microsoft is a manipulator so don't expect sympathy on that front.

Again you are talking nonsense Windows 7 LTS ends in 2020.

[independentvolume]

This is pure comedy. You guys are arguing over phones that have 10% market share, combined. I'm a fan of BB10 and WP8 but I can see that both will be playing second fiddle when it comes to developers. Both will remain niche products for the foreseeable future. My only concern is if BlackBerry can stay afloat as a niche. I'm not concerned about Microsoft. They have been a niche ever since they entered the mobile market and it doesn't phase them at the least.

[BlackStormRising]

I assure you that is not the case. I'm not at all convinced that BB10 offers anything better than what is currently on the market. Most reviews said as much too.

I'll gladly keep Nokia over BlackBerry. Not that I think BlackBerry is bad but I'm more confident in Nokia's long term innovation.

Rebecca Greenfield (the Atlantic) claims Kevin is last surviving BlackBerry fan. That hyperbole probably makes me the last surviving Nokia shareholder, so I thank you for keeping the faith, but I fear my quarterly dividend won't be reinstated anytime soon.

[morlock_man]

More like 1000 native apps, that is appalling and you can see

1000 Cascades apps? So apps written in Adobe Air or in html5 don't count?

Which parts are legacy? xbox music with a third more tracks than are available on BB, outlook, skydrive, azure, etc?
No matter how you look at it Microsoft have a larger better ecosystem than BB.

The 360 is legacy. It was launched in 2005. It's ancient as far as tech is concerned. Xbox music doesn't really mean much. Music and media will choose whatever platform offers them the best outlet for content distribution. Microsoft's current operating system platform is about as revolutionary as Windows 3.1. It feels like the peak of an ancient paradigm and it'll cause them significant problems down the road as more industries adopt touch as a platform standard over the keyboard and mouse.

The reviews dont seem to agree with this, some going as far as calling the UK chaotic.

It's UX, not UK. User eXperience. Most reviews I've read say that there is a learning curve and that in some instances, certain screen elements and gestures should be reoriented to maintain consistency. But the concensus still seems to be that the UX paradigm is a big step forwards, not backwards.

Do you even know what FIPS is? It is a security certification that says a device can use different technologies that have been tested by the US gov, how on earth does that have anything to with the momentum of IOS or Android?

It's a whole market that can only be served by certified devices. Apple doesn't have any. There's only a few Motorola phones and the Samsung S2 and S3. There's no real competition from Apple in that marketplace. And that's just an American standard. You don't think other nations of the world have the same strict security requirements? BlackBerry's security background offers them a niche market that very few compete within.

No

BlackBerry's legacy is in efficient communications. Not games and media consumption.

Really?

BlackBerry phones are known to be able to maintain active network connections and send PIN to PIN messages during power outages and natural disasters.

Strawman,

Not a strawman at all. OS design is the key issue here. As far as platform stability is concerned, Android's OS architecture is inherently flawed. Hardware fragmentation is just another problem that compounds the issue.

Again you are talking nonsense Windows 7 LTS ends in 2020.

And when is Windows 7 SP2 coming out?

Oh yeah... NEVER.

[texazzpete]

Does BB10 have an app advantage over Windows Phone?
BB10 is launching with 70,000 apps. 40% of them may be Android apps, but that still leaves about 42,000 native apps. At Launch. Windows RT launched with nothing and according to this source only has 40,839 RT apps available a full 3 months after launch, with only 27,257 available in the US.
.

Funny how in an article calling out the WP editor for 'misinformation', you use app count for Windows RT to make your case against WIndows Phone.

Windows RT. Windows Phone. Are these two the same?!

You need Jesus.

[morlock_man]

Funny how in an article calling out the WP editor for 'misinformation', you use app count for Windows RT to make your case against WIndows Phone.

Windows RT. Windows Phone. Are these two the same?!

You need Jesus.

Windows RT is Windows on ARM-based processors for use in mobile devices. If you want to talk about the mobile device platform, you have to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

You need to find your inner Buddha.

[howarmat]

windows phone 8 appstore numbers...officially

Reflecting on 2012: scale and opportunity

Confidence. Establish high confidence level in the store and the apps it offers. Confidence is built by testing and certifying every app and game to help protect customers from malware and viruses. Over the last year we’ve certified and published over 75,000 new apps and games (more than doubling the catalog size) and over 300,000 app updates. In addition, this year we added the capability for customers to tell us if they have a concern about an app.

so 150k+ windows phone apps

[ADGrant]

windows phone 8 appstore numbers...officially

Reflecting on 2012: scale and opportunity



so 150k+ windows phone apps

But how many of those are native WP8 apps.

[morlock_man]

windows phone 8 appstore numbers...officially

Reflecting on 2012: scale and opportunity

so 150k+ windows phone apps

Windows *Phone* apps. How many of them run on the Surface? None.

The BB10 platform isn't designed to fragment their tablet and phone ecosystem the same way their Windows Phone and Windows RT platforms have.

[howarmat]

But how many of those are native WP8 apps.

they all run on win 8 phones i think

[ADGrant]

they all run on win 8 phones i think

Most probably do but they don't all run on WP8.

[howarmat]

Windows *Phone* apps. How many of them run on the Surface? None.

The BB10 platform isn't designed to fragment their tablet and phone ecosystem the same way their Windows Phone and Windows RT platforms have.

Right now PB doesnt have OS 10 and is fragmented. So we will talk when it does lol

(not saying you are wrong though, I am just looking at phones for this conversation)

[independentvolume]

over 40% of BB10 apps are straight android ports. I can't be the only one that dislikes that trend.

[morlock_man]

Right now PB doesnt have OS 10 and is fragmented. So we will talk when it does lol

(not saying you are wrong though, I am just looking at phones for this conversation)

The Playbook is just a development device for the platform, but it's still getting BB10. BlackBerry's end goal is to create a unified platform, not a bloated codebase of fragmented operating systems that will be near impossible to maintain across generations.

[Daniel Rubino]

BlackBerry's end goal is to create a unified platform, not a bloated codebase of fragmented operating systems that will be near impossible to maintain across generations.

Windows 8 Desktop, Windows RT and Windows Phone 8 all share the same codebase and NT kernel (drivers, APIs, etc.). The next gen Xbox is also expected to join this trend so it can run proper "apps". It's called "Shared Windows Core".

No, apps written on Windows Phone 8 can't run on Windows RT directly but the code overlaps as much as 80% with UI being the main differentiation (Microsoft recognizes that a desktop PC, tablet and phone are all different systems with unique usability requirements, that's why they didn't take Windows Phone and make into a tablet--that's the easy way out).

Windows 8 is far from 'bloated', in fact it's extremely light, which is why it can fly on Atom or i3 processors (or ARM for straight RT). There is no "maintaining across generations" as Microsoft is bringing all of their platforms onto the same code. A developer can write one app for RT, open a "new project" with the developers tools and port most of that into a Windows Phone 8 app (and vice versa).

This will become more evident when Windows "Blue" comes online. The combo of share codebase between desktop, tablet, cars, Xbox "720", Windows Phone will give Microsoft extreme flexibility in the future.

[Daniel Rubino]

But how many of those are native WP8 apps.

What does that even mean? Windows Phone 8 can run all apps and games on Windows Phone 7.

There are no "native" apps for Windows Phone 8 except for games that opt to use the new gaming engines brought online. There are apps that take advantage of new WP8 APIs like lockscreen wallpaper, notifications, rapid resume, doublewide tiles, higher resolution graphics, but you don't need to have an app with those to run as everything just scales up.