[anon(4018671)]

There is standard here on MN by the editorial team that I really respect, which also sets it apart from all the other blogs/sites out there. I think its fair to say this article didn't maintain that.

[bitek]

On Windows Phone (which is different from Windows 8) and these are all official apps, not third party:

• PayPal App: Yes
• Twitter App: Yes (plus built in)
• Facebook App: Yes (plus built in)
• Instagram: No

In fact, Windows Phone was the first OS to have native Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn support built into the OS.

The Instagram part was kind of the point.

Had BB10 launched with that, it would have been very bad news for Windows Phone. As of now, the two OSs are both at a huge disadvantage for not having it and it will hinder adoption and people switching. Not having Instagram on Windows Phone is currently the top cited reason by a lot of people for not adopting the OS.

Microsoft and Nokia are working hard to get it and fingers are crossed for a Mobile World Congress announcement, but until then, it's a big hole on anyone's platform to not have it. (That's coming from someone who hates the concept of Instagram too.)

cited by whom ? i find this argument of one app being deal breaker simply not true.

having windows phone on the market for so long i am sorry but selection sucks. not much of good apps, not much of good games.

[RubberChicken76]

There is standard here on MN by the editorial team that I really respect, which also sets it apart from all the other blogs/sites out there. I think its fair to say this article didn't maintain that.

Naw - I think the only thing Daniel is maybe guilty of is acting as though his opinions are facts. He thinks the UI is boring, but that's totally subjective. Regardless of opinion, Windows Phone is more of a UI paradigm departure than BlackBerry 10

It's human nature.

[RubberChicken76]

Once again, the point was to demonstrate how far BB has fallen. Windows Phone sales have been only slowly increasing and it's not enough. I think it's very premature and irrational to say consumers will flock to BB10 over Android or iOS to gain market share. Why would they?

I don't think it's going to start there either. What I do think they have as an advantage is BlackBerry upgraders. That nice pool of 80 million or so to draw from will likely lead to a fair number of early adopters of Blackberry 10. And there is a damn good chance this will dwarf what Nokia just did.

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

Everyone keeps saying wait for the mobile nations podcast. I don't agree with this though. EVERYONE downplays their "own" platform on them. No one boasts their own or blasts other platforms.everyone tries so hard to stay politically correct. Dan rubino will never have the guts to talk like his article on a podcast with kevin. There won't end up being a true debate about the misconceptions he presented...watch.

[RubberChicken76]

Dan rubino will never have the guts to talk like his article on a podcast with kevin. There won't end up being a true debate about the misconceptions he presented...watch.

He does all the time. He's outright dismissive of BlackBerry's chances whenever he speaks of the third ecosystem but he also acknowledges Windows Phones weaknesses.

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

He does all the time. He's outright dismissive of BlackBerry's chances whenever he speaks of the third ecosystem but he also acknowledges Windows Phones weaknesses.

I have yet to see that on a podcast with kevin. He usually is pretty quiet and says the politically correct "we will have to wait and see". If he said otherwise in wpcentral podcasts I have no idea. I watch all them on cb but that's it

[texazzpete]

All this pathetic whining about the article is extremely amusing. I can't remember if anyone rolled out the hate party for Crackberry kevin for using words like 'iToy' in an editorial.
It's all personal opinion, and there certainly IS some bias in each member site.

It's funny that the same people who always used to harangue others in the forums for 'talking negative about Blackberry on a Blackberry fansite' are suddenly up in arms because an editor of WPCentral wrote an editorial that leaned way more towards WP than BB Z10.

The mature and sensible thing for the OP to have done would have been to open this thread as a request for Kevin to issue a rejoinder. That's debate and discussion! Instead taking the brainless route of asking folks to flame Dan for his opinion piece is just totally inane.

[texazzpete]

He knows it. It had to have sucked when Nokia sold fewer Lumias despite aggressive pricing and a big campaign than RIM sold aging 18 month old BlackBerry 7 devices with the world knowing BlackBerry 10 was coming on top of it.

Always a good idea to include the disclaimer that RIM/Blackberry never issued a breakdown in sales numbers...and a large chunk of those BB sales figures come from dirt cheap Curves that are - to borrow your own words - aggressively priced.
If you throw in the comparatively cheap Asha smartphone line, Nokia sales look pretty robust compared to Blackberry.

[Shanerredflag]

[Marauder2]

I understand the points from both sides here. Dan said that it was an editorial and that he posted his opinions, which I understand and he, as editor of the WP site, has the right to do. We as Crackberrians may not agree because of which device we prefer, but then again there are millions who prefer iOS even though some of us think it is getting to be boring. Those millions seem to disagree. You'll like what you like, and you can defend/tout it all you want.

But, OP had many valid points. Dan did not say something along the lines of "in my opinion" or "having used a Z10" to note that it is solely his opinion and opinions may vary. When I read them they came off as facts, which I thought was weird. "Not quite Nokia good" is funny because I would rather many phones over the Nokia based simply on it's hardware, but then again opinions differ, "the UI is boring" is funny too because instead of active frames WP has live tiles and instead of a grid of icons WP has a list of icons, there too opinions differ. Nowhere did it say "I prefer" or "in my opinion", so someone like my sister who knows nothing about tech may decide to take a quick peek at BB10 reviews, while considering a WP, and come across this "opinionated editorial" and take everything that is said as FACT. That's what is scary.


PS. What is Nokia's long term innovation?

[southlander]

Everyone keeps saying wait for the mobile nations podcast. I don't agree with this though. EVERYONE downplays their "own" platform on them. No one boasts their own or blasts other platforms.everyone tries so hard to stay politically correct. Dan rubino will never have the guts to talk like his article on a podcast with kevin. There won't end up being a true debate about the misconceptions he presented...watch.

The guy's just playing to his base. BlackBerry made a big splash this week. WP Central readers I am sure like to see it critiqued against what they enjoy using. And of course opinions can be anything you like. So it is logical to bias towards Windows Phone. When the iPhone 5 came out I believe Crackberry had a review of some kind that -- probably -- harped on any flaws. (my guess).

The bottom line -- whatever is written on WP Central is not going to hurt BlackBerry any more than an iPhone review on Crackberry could affect/hurt Apple's chances.

My opinion.

[RubberChicken76]

Always a good idea to include the disclaimer that RIM/Blackberry never issued a breakdown in sales numbers...and a large chunk of those BB sales figures come from dirt cheap Curves that are - to borrow your own words - aggressively priced.
If you throw in the comparatively cheap Asha smartphone line, Nokia sales look pretty robust compared to Blackberry.

Your point about the Curve is very good, but my comment is still the same. Windows Phone is gaining a bit of traction but not a runaway success - especially considering all that went into the NOKIA launch of Windows Phones this christmas.

And I like Windows Phone. But it's success is no more 'assured' than BlackBerry's is. It is foolish to under-estimate Microsoft in any circumstance but it's also foolish to assume they can walk in and win.

[reeneebob]

The problem with webos WAS the hardware and a lack of money. The development team was literally writing code the day before CES. Throw in owners that didn't have a clue about what they had and the Pre was doomed from day 1. I was a day 1 owner and I would still have a webos phone but the gestures in Blackberry look like a great alternative. Check out webos nations, Derek has written some fantastic articles about the failures webos suffered.

I preordered a z10 today for a customer of mine with a pre 3 (and every other webos device, he loves them, he had them imported since they weren't sold here and thanked me for dual booting his Touch pads with a free Pixi since I missed my pre so much). The first thing he said was "wow is this ever like webos".

What happened to palm was a travesty. I will never buy another HP product again.

Another travesty is the way some are over the top attacking another editor of mobile nations. You don't see threads on their sites claiming hit pieces and declaring war on the other editors. It doesn't make this site look good. JMHO

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2

[reeneebob]

the best part about this thread is how we don't have a whole legion of WP fans coming in to start a platform war. They're probably happily discussing wp stuff over in their own forum.

because the reverse would definitely have occured. Some people in this thread really need to do some self reflection.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

DING DING DING.



Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2

[Superfly_FR]

God ... BB10 just released and 8 pages of this ... battle of rag ?

Isn't this thread eligible for the rehab section now ?

[ppeters914]

Still, I find it puzzling that WP8 hasn't caught on more. I think it's a beautiful OS and, for me, it ranks just below BB10 in my excitement and attraction to the current crop of mobile OSs

Agreed. I compared the iPhone5 and S3 last November (didn't know BB10 existed), and neither was compelling enough for me to drop $200. Figured I'd wait for WP8. I only know a few people with Windows phones, but they all love 'em. What stopped me is the Lumina form factor (too large like the S3) and the HTC call quality. Then there's the maps thing and other stuff (some of which has probably been resolved by now). Again, not compelling enough for me. That's when I said "gee, wonder if RIM is doing anything?", learned about BB10, and now waiting on AT&T.

[Jake Storm]

the best part about this thread is how we don't have a whole legion of WP fans....

That's because you would have a hard time finding a legion of WP fans.

[ppeters914]

Thing is, Windows Phone really is not the competition here--iOS and Android are.

[omniusovermind]

The mature and sensible thing for the OP to have done would have been to open this thread as a request for Kevin to issue a rejoinder. That's debate and discussion! Instead taking the brainless route of asking folks to flame Dan for his opinion piece is just totally inane.

you'll forgive me for not viewing your opinion as credible. You always twist people's words and intentions in order to generate dislike or inflame, and the above is a prime example of that. Irony just phoned, they're looking for you.

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

you'll forgive me for not viewing your opinion as credible. You always twist people's words and intentions in order to generate dislike or inflame, and the above is a prime example of that. Irony just phoned, they're looking for you.

100% agree.

[lorax1284]

But let's look at my main points, all bolded, from the original article:

• Does BB10 have an app advantage over Windows Phone? No.
• Does BB10 have a larger ecoysytem (gaming, desktop, cloud, enterprise/Office) than Windows Phone? No.
• Is BB10's UI more interesting than Windows Phone? Opinion, no. You can't call me wrong for my opinion on something, sorry.
• Does BB10 face the same obstacle as Windows Phone, namely iOS and Android momentum in the marketplace? Yes.
• Does BB have a strong legacy to rely on? Yes.
• Do carriers prefer BB to Microsoft? Yes.
• Is BB hardware good and often better than Android? Yes (once again, opinion)
• Has the media been more jubilant and positive about BB than their Windows Phone coverage? Yes (even Kevin was noting the positive media buzz just last week).

Those were my main points in the article, none of which you challenge or proved incorrect. Some are opinion so I'm not even sure how you would go about doing that.

Dan, you are absolutely free to form your own opinion and publish, but you are not acting in good faith if you decide that objectively measureable "facts" can be turned aroud to suit your argument and called "opinion". Your first 2 points are OBJECTIVELY FALSE. Your fourth point is a gross oversimplification, and you know it. Windows PHONE has no where near BB's legacy. And Windows Phone doesn't run Windows desktop OS code, and if anything, trying to cram a desktop OS into a mobile device is a liability, not a strength.

The fact is that Windows Phone is pretty darn good. If you have to "misrepresent" about it, then maybe it YOU who are compounding the problem, hyperbole begets hyperbole, and you can follow Kevin's example and take the high road for the good of your community and the good of the OS and its impression in the market place.

Unless you are admitting to being a troll on your own site. THAT'LL go over well with the Mobile Nations investors.

[aragone79]

Truly, BB10 will face a hard way to be a winner in smartphone business. But, I believe and still believe that it's just a matter of time. Many apps are coming to Blackberry World. Yes, it's too premature to say that BB10 will be the winner of all.

I just hope that Blackberry hear and listen to all customer complaints and suggestion. So they can bring the right future development for Blackberry 10.
I too hope that Blackberry will make Blackberry 10 as One Whole Big System that can bring new lifestyle and tools for the future Not just as Mobile OS, but truly a mobile computing and stylist.

So please welcoming Blackberry 10 1.0, a new beginning of all and accept that as a new kid who will learn to be a Great Man at the future

[morlock_man]

But let's look at my main points, all bolded, from the original article:

• Does BB10 have an app advantage over Windows Phone? No.
• Does BB10 have a larger ecoysytem (gaming, desktop, cloud, enterprise/Office) than Windows Phone? No.
• Is BB10's UI more interesting than Windows Phone? Opinion, no. You can't call me wrong for my opinion on something, sorry.
• Does BB10 face the same obstacle as Windows Phone, namely iOS and Android momentum in the marketplace? Yes.
• Does BB have a strong legacy to rely on? Yes.
• Do carriers prefer BB to Microsoft? Yes.
• Is BB hardware good and often better than Android? Yes (once again, opinion)
• Has the media been more jubilant and positive about BB than their Windows Phone coverage? Yes (even Kevin was noting the positive media buzz just last week).

.

Does BB10 have an app advantage over Windows Phone?
BB10 is launching with 70,000 apps. 40% of them may be Android apps, but that still leaves about 42,000 native apps. At Launch. Windows RT launched with nothing and according to this source only has 40,839 RT apps available a full 3 months after launch, with only 27,257 available in the US.

Does BB10 have a larger ecoysytem (gaming, desktop, cloud, enterprise/Office) than Windows Phone?
The large Windows ecosystem that you're referring to is largely a legacy system. Windows 8 has pretty much been panned by industry so far. The Xbox connectivity doesn't really demonstrate how it can make enterprise/office more productive. And the new BB phones can become your desktop or your gaming system. Just because you've got a legacy ecosystem doesn't mean your customers will keep investing in it.

Is BB10's UI more interesting than Windows Phone?
It's not just the UI, its the UX. The old paradigm is just point and click, or click and drag. It's a mouse or a home button. It's very in the box thinking. The majority of the system gestures used in the Playbook and BB10 start from outside the box. They make the entire surface interactive and more intuitive and it represents a significant step forward in terms of the ergonomics of how we interact with our devices.

Does BB10 face the same obstacle as Windows Phone, namely iOS and Android momentum in the marketplace?
No. BB10 already has FIPS 140-2 certification. It's the only platform to ever launch pre-certified. No Windows 8 phone has FIPS.

Does BB have a strong legacy to rely on?
Efficiency instead of bloat.

Do carriers prefer BB to Microsoft?
Yes. Because BB is known for making quality phones. Phones that can maintain a network connection during a natural disaster.

Is BB hardware good and often better than Android?
Better question: Would a buggy app that crashes an Android device be able to wreak the same havoc on a BB10 device? No.

Has the media been more jubilant and positive about BB than their Windows Phone coverage?
Because Metro is UGLY. Face it. Microsoft jumped the shark with Windows 7 and then dropped long term support by refusing to offer service packs to try to force enterprise to upgrade to Windows 8. Blackberry's stock and media reputation was in the toilet 5 months ago, Microsoft's was not. Blackberry is the underdog in this situation and Microsoft is a manipulator so don't expect sympathy on that front.

[collinc93]

God ... BB10 just released and 8 pages of this ... battle of rag ?

Isn't this thread eligible for the rehab section now ?

they trying to make me go to rehab..I say no no no