[Daniel Rubino]

It's a metric that can surely be used, it's called % of adoption rates my friend. One can pontificate all they wish,yet one can't bend math.

“While we can’t release the total number of reservations we have received for the BlackBerry 10 all-touch device, we can say that customer interest is definitely strong and reservations continue daily,”

This. Is. Not. A. Metric. It's PR. Unless you are talking about some other "pre order" info, then my apologies.

[Frank Castle]

I never understand the back and forth about what platform is "the best" they all have pros and cons. As much as people think iPhone is the best, I find it boring and limited, Android a fragmented mess with no consistency, Blackberry slow to react to market and Microsoft just unsure what they want to do with mobile.

It's like arguing with someone over why your DVD player is better. They pretty much all do the same basic stuff.

All this said Microsoft is in a tough spot. No matter what they do they market and carriers don't care about the device, I've only met a handful of people who use the devices, seen 1 in the wild (girl was dumping it for iPhone) and at work have had a whopping 2 people ask if we'll support it. (no we won't)

Microsoft has a lot of ill will against them, there were a LOT of Window Mobile and earlier Windows Phone users who feel shafted in how upgrades were rolled out. Microsoft still doesn't understand the needs for enterprise mobility. They keep pitching System Center (and now inTune) and we're pretty much locked into BES and Good. (neither platform supports Windows Phone). The big disconnect is mobile services are not handled by the areas that manage desktop and traditional Microsoft tool sets so they have a huge challenge in enterprise and on the consumer side Apple is killing them. No one under 25 is going to use Microsoft as it's not cool. They can have all the people they want dancing around with Surface and semi celebs talking about Windows Phone - it doesn't connect and is not cool.

When the carriers want nothing to do with you, you have problems. They don't even bother asking if we're interested. When I requested my 920 our at&t rep asked what we wanted it for. ouch!

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

Of course. There's always room for debate about what should be covered, what's important, etc. This was not meant to be a "Windows Phone versus BlackBerrry 10: the definitive comparison".

Asking for opinion on what these editorials should cover is not something we'll find consensus on. You have opinion, I have mine.

"This was not meant to be a "Windows Phone versus BlackBerrry 10: the definitive comparison"."

...but thats just what you made to be it isn't it Danny boy????

[Daniel Rubino]

"This was not meant to be a "Windows Phone versus BlackBerrry 10: the definitive comparison"."

...but thats just what you made to be it isn't it Danny boy????

Was it definitive? I didn't consider it to be. I considered it an immediate reaction and quick run down on whether or not BB10 is a viable threat.

Your patronizing is irritating and unbecoming, by the way.

[BBThemes]

This. Is. Not. A. Metric. It's PR. Unless you are talking about some other "pre order" info, then my apologies.

Pre order is still useless for any numbers given. a) they aint sales. b) people could preorder without knowing the price, which IS a huge deciding factor.

so yes i agree its not a metric, but i also disagree that anything pre-order can be used as a metric either, due to lack of given price. Now the launch has been announced and pricing revealed, the pre orders going forward would be the real indicators.

[TomJasper]

Preorders in Canada, right? Why am I not shocked...

Like the rest of the world, I'll wait for some more solid information I also don't have "angst" just a position I'm taking. Stop trying to psychoanalyze this.

You ever hear of a snowball that runs down hill, does not matter if that snowball is in Canada or not, the simple fact is % of pre-order adoption rates for Blackberry 10 from non Blackberry owners is a metric. That metric is what drives growth ie market share, not something to take lightly. Why wait for more "solid info" , the trend has already been identified, early yes but it's there.

As for " psychoanalyze" , sorry you feel that way, just posting my "opinion" , you obviously are ok with "opinion/s"?

[TomJasper]

"Your patronizing is irritating and unbecoming, by the way."

Said the writer of an (in my opinion) hit piece editorial on Blackberry 10.

[Daniel Rubino]

You ever hear of a snowball that runs down hill, does not matter if that snowball is in Canada or not, the simple fact is % of pre-order adoption rates for Blackberry 10 from non Blackberry owners is a metric. That metric is what drives growth ie market share, not something to take lightly. Why wait for more "solid info" , the trend has already been identified, early yes but it's there.

As for " psychoanalyze" , sorry you feel that way, just posting my "opinion" , you obviously are ok with "opinion/s"?

You know, I'm trying to have a legitimate discussion here but you and some others here are quite condescending. What's with the snark? If you don't want me to answer questions, don't ask.

I do take PR statements on device pre-order registration lightly. It's nothing to hang your hat on just yet. We can disagree about that and I'm not saying it means nothing (it is a good sign) but it should be regarded as tentative not definitive or a trend.

[Daniel Rubino]

"Your patronizing is irritating and unbecoming, by the way."

Said the writer of an (in my opinion) hit piece editorial on Blackberry 10.

Was this suppose to be an argument or have a point? An editorial written to no one specific is not the same as personal interaction or response.

[TomJasper]

Pre order is still useless for any numbers given. a) they aint sales. b) people could preorder without knowing the price, which IS a huge deciding factor.

so yes i agree its not a metric, but i also disagree that anything pre-order can be used as a metric either, due to lack of given price. Now the launch has been announced and pricing revealed, the pre orders going forward would be the real indicators.

That does not change the metric, all it would change is the numbers behind the metric, all things being rational the % would be in line with the original numbers on a scaled metric.

100 pre order
70 are. Blackberry owners
30 are non Blackberry owners

Launch day
10% of all pre orders change their mind

63 are previous Blackberry owners
27 are non Blackberry owners

The % adoption rate metric does not change.

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

Why did you include a picture of an blackberry OS7 device in an article about if OS10 blackberry is a threat?


"Hardware reliability. Say what you will about BlackBerry but much like Palm, their hardware is generally quite good. Not Apple good. Not Nokia good. But better than many Android phones on the market and that bold, almost garish BlackBerry logo emblazoned across the Z10 and Q10 is a reminder that they stand behind their work."

--Please advise how this addresses if bb10 is a threat to windows? It seems like a general bb10 opinion piece comparing to platforms non related to the topic.


"The OS is boring. Yeah, we’re going there. While our friends at CrackBerry are gushing over the new OS and its functionality, we think it’s quite bland. It’s your typical “Icons everywhere” UI that looks very much like iOS, Android and even MeeGo, is nothing to get excited about."

---And what is exciting about windows (which you didnt even compare it to in a supposed windows comparison)? a live tile? live tiles look like stock developer icons. Active frames are much more appealing


"Granted, those in business and enterprise may preferred a “toned down” phone compared to a Cyan or California Blue device, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for regular consumers either. What kid will yearn for the Z10?"

----The same kid who yearns for a black or white iphone????? hmmmm

[DJRikko]

do you seriously expect that he would write that bb10 is better than windows phones ? obviously he needs to make bb10 inferior somewhat.

That's exactly it. He realizes how good it is and can't do anything but bash rather than admit that this whole time he's been cheering for the wrong team.

[Cappyshirt]

That does not change the metric, all it would change is the numbers behind the metric, all things being rational the % would be in line with the original numbers on a scaled metric.

100 pre order
70 are. Blackberry owners
30 are non Blackberry owners

Launch day
10% of all pre orders change their mind

63 are previous Blackberry owners
27 are non Blackberry owners

The % adoption rate metric does not change.

The point he and I are trying to say is that there is still no facts or numbers, so you aren't standing on anything solid. pre-order coulda been a gazillion or a billion. But, your statement is just as strong as me saying "a vague amount people didn't pre-order blackberries, therefore blackberry z10 will not catch on. hence the % of un-adoption rate"

[BBThemes]

That does not change the metric, all it would change is the numbers behind the metric, all things being rational the % would be in line with the original numbers on a scaled metric.

100 pre order
70 are. Blackberry owners
30 are non Blackberry owners

Launch day
10% of all pre orders change their mind

63 are previous Blackberry owners
27 are non Blackberry owners

The % adoption rate metric does not change.

i disagree, you`ve no proof the % who change their mind are equally split between current and non users. plus most people here would attest that the reality is more likely that in your predicted scenario the reality would be more a 69 and 21 as the current owners are more likely to stay and the non owners more likely to not partake. however as i said, theres not actual evidence to support that until/if any figures ever get released.

the fact you dont see the pricing and availability as pivotal in peoples minds to the thought process is a little worrying.

[TomJasper]

Was this suppose to be an argument or have a point? An editorial written to no one specific is not the same as personal interaction or response.

Not sure why you psychoanalyze my post, it clearly said in the brackets "in my opinion".

It was an opinion I had to the content at hand, sorry if for some reason you take my opinions personal, I certainly don't take your opinions personal.

[Daniel Rubino]

Why did you include a picture of an blackberry OS7 device in an article about if OS10 blackberry is a threat?

The CrackBerry photo? IBecause you can barely make out the device, it was meant as a generic "BlackBerry Windows Phone" pic. Was this really an important thing?

Please advise how this addresses if bb10 is a threat to windows? It seems like a general bb10 opinion piece comparing to platforms non related to the topic.

So you're going after the part where I give BlackBerry credit for making good hardware...ooookay. Well, the reason it's there because if BlackBerry hardware were on the level of say ZTE, it would be less of a threat. But no, BlackBerry hardware tends to be well thought out so it's a point in their column for success.

Was what I said controversial? Should I have dismissed BlackBerry hardware? I'm confused where you are going with this.

And what is exciting about windows (which you didnt even compare it to in a supposed windows comparion)? a live tile? live tiles look like stock developer icons. Active frames are much more appealing

Ease of use. Discover-ability. Minimalism. Focus on information not chrome. Consistency in apps due to having a design language/philosophy.

The same kid who yearns for a black or white iphone????? hmmmm

Maybe. I'd argue the trend though is for brighter more bold colors. Watch as Android devices and others start to embrace a color lineup in 2013. Black and White devices are very 2011.

While the Z10 looks nice it's far from exciting, enticing or unique for looks. (my opinion).

[TomJasper]

i disagree, you`ve no proof the % who change their mind are equally split between current and non users. plus most people here would attest that the reality is more likely that in your predicted scenario the reality would be more a 69 and 21 as the current owners are more likely to stay and the non owners more likely to not partake. however as i said, theres not actual evidence to support that until/if any figures ever get released.

the fact you dont see the pricing and availability as pivotal in peoples minds to the thought process is a little worrying.

I did say all things being rational. You have not provided anything irrational that would change the original metrics. In fact originally the thought retail price being tossed around was $700 to $799 , price has gone down. Now if the price would have been $899 then that could be considered an irrational behaviour to the metric.

Edit:$550 off contract at a place called Koodo

[Jake Storm]

I have said ZERO (good or bad) about Windows Phone sales in this thread.

You're joking right?
You posted a frickin chart with the sales figures!

And yet again you avoid the fact that BB sold several times more old BB7 phones than Microsoft could sell new WP8 phones. How could you possibly think that they could do worst selling new BB10 phones? When you look at BB10 sales compared to WP8 sales this coming year, it's going to be a slaughter.

Is BB going to start to catch up to Apple or Samsung in sales? That is a common topic of discussion. WP8 is irrelevant.

[Cappyshirt]

Not sure why you psychoanalyze my post, it clearly said in the brackets "in my opinion".

It was an opinion I had to the content at hand, sorry if for some reason you take my opinions personal, I certainly don't take your opinions personal.

Jesus! are you still in high school?

these's arguments are getting no where now, seems like only one side is listening.

[MartyMcfly]

And now people are giving their opinion of his opinion on this site. Do opinions stop upon WP website exit?

No they don't, however the way some of the posters are reacting to his opinion is beyond corny.


Sent from my Iphone 5 using Tapatalk

[Daniel Rubino]

That's exactly it. He realizes how good it is and can't do anything but bash rather than admit that this whole time he's been cheering for the wrong team.

I assure you that is not the case. I'm not at all convinced that BB10 offers anything better than what is currently on the market. Most reviews said as much too.

I'll gladly keep Nokia over BlackBerry. Not that I think BlackBerry is bad but I'm more confident in Nokia's long term innovation.

[Daniel Rubino]

You're joking right?
You posted a frickin chart with the sales figures!
When you look at BB10 sales compared to WP8 sales this coming year, it's going to be a slaughter.

Is BB going to start to catch up to Apple or Samsung in sales? That is a common topic of discussion. WP8 is irrelevant.

Once again, the point was to demonstrate how far BB has fallen. Windows Phone sales have been only slowly increasing and it's not enough. I think it's very premature and irrational to say consumers will flock to BB10 over Android or iOS to gain market share. Why would they?

[TomJasper]

"Maybe. I'd argue the trend though is for brighter more bold colors."

Actually if you follow color trends in particular , they are not "brighter" for 2013, this follows through in interior home colors, vehicles, fashion. I see no reason why phones would take a 180 to those trends.

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

The CrackBerry photo? IBecause you can barely make out the device, it was meant as a generic "BlackBerry Windows Phone" pic. Was this really an important thing?


So you're going after the part where I give BlackBerry credit for making good hardware...ooookay. Well, the reason it's there because if BlackBerry hardware were on the level of say ZTE, it would be less of a threat. But no, BlackBerry hardware tends to be well thought out so it's a point in their column for success.

Was what I said controversial? Should I have dismissed BlackBerry hardware? I'm confused where you are going with this.


Ease of use. Discover-ability. Minimalism. Focus on information not chrome. Consistency in apps due to having a design language/philosophy.


Maybe. I'd argue the trend though is for brighter more bold colors. Watch as Android devices and others start to embrace a color lineup in 2013. Black and White devices are very 2011.

While the Z10 looks nice it's far from exciting, enticing or unique for looks. (my opinion).

1. You are clearly attempting compare blackberry 10 to windows 8. Its ALL about the new z10 vs windows 8. Nothing in the article is about legacy BBOS. Using a blackberry 7 pic as a "generic" picture for an article comparing bb10 is a HUGE no-no mistake. Yes its important , whats stopping you from using an even older pic if you go by your logic? any bb from 2005 could be "generic".

2. I am not going to let you get away with not even comparing hardware quality of the z10 to windows phone in an article totally about comparing blackberry to windows phone! Doesnt matter if you say its good or bad. The article is meant to be a comparision and dialogue on the threat blackberry 10 is to WINDOWS.

3. minimalism as a good thing? So you are giving opinions now. caught ya. Consistency in apps?? BB10 develops have consistency standards to follow too

4. another opinion. sales of the iphone (black and white) and the dark coloured gs3 and white gs3 and the red gs3. Not exactly bold colours. Please advise where evidence is supporting the statement that "the trend though is for brighter more bold colors". all the top devices are not bold colors. START embracing color lineup in 2013? so where this"trend" you speak of????

[Cappyshirt]

"Maybe. I'd argue the trend though is for brighter more bold colors."

Actually if you follow color trends in particular , they are not "brighter" for 2013, this follows through in interior home colors, vehicles, fashion. I see no reason why phones would take a 180 to those trends.

that's entirely cultural. For example in Australia they like there Car's colours to be "brighter and bold".