[Dapper37]

Neither. It was us answering the question Is BB10 a threat to Windows Phone?

It's a legitimate question to ask and answer on BB10's official announcement. We simply weighed the pros/cons of each in quick editorial--a gut reaction if you will. We do that here all the time at Mobile Nations: OS platform announces big news, everyone reacts.

It would have been more weird for us to pretend BB10 didn't happen yesterday and just carried on. You may not like how I handled it--totally legit complaint--but that was our immediate reaction to the news of the day.

True statement but if you ask the question you hold the obligation of discussing all the relevant facts! Not just the ones you choose, that help your argument. Like all the key selling features of BB10 that you missed. The worldwide and adopted security features. 80 million current subscriptions. Development tools and development enthusiasm. I could go on.

[Daniel Rubino]

Of course, those market figures compare the after-launch WP8 period vs. the pre-launch BB10 period. Given that the BB7 devices are aging, it is to be expected that few people would purchase a new BB7 device in GB or the US with the BB10 launch upcoming.

I said nothing about WP sales. That point was to show how much marketshare BB has lost and what they need to make up in order to be actually competitive against iOS, Android.

[Daniel Rubino]

True statement but if you ask the question you hold the obligation of discussing all the relevant facts! Not just the ones you choose, that help your argument. Like all the key selling features of BB10 that you missed. The worldwide and adopted security features. 80 million current subscriptions. Development tools and development enthusiasm. I could go on.

Of course. There's always room for debate about what should be covered, what's important, etc. This was not meant to be a "Windows Phone versus BlackBerrry 10: the definitive comparison".

Asking for opinion on what these editorials should cover is not something we'll find consensus on. You have opinion, I have mine.

[Daniel Rubino]

It's been 3 years since Windows Phone got re-launched..I am yet to find a person using a Windows Phone or even worst talk about a Windows Phone, so it is that bad for Windows Phone and IMHO I don't see much happening even after Windows Phone 10 in the distance future. Windows Phone is another Zune thing for MSFT.

Maybe. Doesn't matter though. Microsoft will not give up on this and will just throw money at it until they outlast everyone else. Just look at their history.

MS never stood behind Zune. It was a side project that never had the full support of the company. It later merged and grew into Windows Phone and Xbox Music, Xbox Video.

Was that bad? I don't know. How important are iPod sales in 2013? Microsoft saw where "portable music players" were going and didn't bother to fully jump in.

[TomJasper]

Mods, I think we have a troll over here,lol.

[Cappyshirt]

Mods, I think we have a troll over here,lol.

Really? I wish I could 'dis-like' this comment.

[Daniel Rubino]

The desktop has nothing to do with people owning the phone. If that was the case no one would have an android device. And anyway over half of the computers running windows are on xp anyway.

I think dismissing synergy between PC, tablet, gaming and phone is dangerous.

Lots of computers run Windows. Lots of people have Xbox. It makes sense to have all your "systems" on the same page both for user experience (consistency), marketing (branding), app development (NT kernel) and services. It would be stupid for Microsoft to not leverage that network.

It also doesn't matter if right now it's not catching on--this is a long term play by Microsoft and in three years, it will be normal to see all of Microsoft products interact. Wait until the next gen of Xbox runs on NT.

[Dapper37]

Thanks for entering the fray Dan!
Yes I want BB10 to beat wp8
I'd be happy to see wp8 gain on the others!

[sf49ers]

Maybe. Doesn't matter though. Microsoft will not give up on this and will just throw money at it until they outlast everyone else. Just look at their history.

MS never stood behind Zune. It was a side project that never had the full support of the company. It later merged and grew into Windows Phone and Xbox Music, Xbox Video.

Was that bad? I don't know. How important are iPod sales in 2013? Microsoft saw where "portable music players" were going and didn't bother to fully jump in.

Forget about Zune-IPOD fiasco, how do you reason many failures that MS had inspite of the having boat loads of cash you are boasting off and even sometimes to startups like Google, Facebook, Dropbox, Salesforce, Maps, Java Vs C#,...I could go on and on. Xbox is an exception and MSFT is just thriving on the innovations made in the Gates era (i.e Windows, Office, Active Directory and Exchange). RIM may not have the boat loads of cash but it has enough to survive long and make it. Money only matters so much and what matters is the agility of the company to adapt and execute - I can say the new Blackberry is behaving like a startup and they are more agile than MSFT (lackluster WP8 (no notifications, skype, poor enterprise support again, no killer apps))

[TomJasper]

Is it ok if I go to wp and start touting Blackberry 10, need some direction here Mods, what say yee all?

[JoshDargie]

...with a steady and some would say steep market decline over the last 12 months. It remains to be seen if consumers will want BB10.

Attachment 133402
Source: Kantar World Panel

Now thats some misleading comments there... Has BlackBerry lost market share? YES... But Has BlackBerry lost massive amounts of customers? NO...

The market is growing and saying that BlackBerry went from 16% to 6% truely means nothing.... As in that time, BlackBerry went from 78M'ish subscribers to 80M'ish subscribers and finally ended at 79M'ish for end of the year. To me that means BlackBerry is still growing & if its growing then consumers are interested in the device.

[Daniel Rubino]

Thanks for entering the fray Dan!

My pleasure

I think people have a misunderstanding of my position here (which is probably my fault). I don't think BlackBerry or BB10 is bad, nor am I rooting for them to fail. But everyone keeps saying "Windows Phone has had three years..." which is absolutely true. The difference is, I'm not convinced BB will have any more luck than Windows Phone--you folks will deal with the exact same nonsense we faced over the last three years, including people (and media) saying:

• Hardware is not compelling
• OS is lacking features everyone else already has
• Developers aren't releasing apps--they go to iOS and Android first
• No Instagram, no Pandora, no <insert stupid fad app of the week here>
• "Not enough apps"
• What does it do that's better/different than iOS/Android?
• Blame BlackBerry for...

It's going to be like clockwork. Every app that's released (on iOS), every markertshare report, every new nonBB hardware that's released will come back to BlackBerry for comparison. A lot will be unfair and a lot of it will annoy you.

Thing is, Windows Phone really is not the competition here--iOS and Android are.

[JoshDargie]

I think dismissing synergy between PC, tablet, gaming and phone is dangerous.

Lots of computers run Windows. Lots of people have Xbox. It makes sense to have all your "systems" on the same page both for user experience (consistency), marketing (branding), app development (NT kernel) and services. It would be stupid for Microsoft to not leverage that network.

It also doesn't matter if right now it's not catching on--this is a long term play by Microsoft and in three years, it will be normal to see all of Microsoft products interact. Wait until the next gen of Xbox runs on NT.

I can agree with that, Microsoft had the same issue with their first xbox as well. They have the cash flow to continually bleed until they nail down a successful product. Unfortunately BlackBerry doesn't have that option. Time will tell I guess

[Daniel Rubino]

Is it ok if I go to wp and start touting Blackberry 10, need some direction here Mods, what say yee all?

Forums are open for discussion. If people ask me questions and I answer them, there is certainly nothing wrong with that. I'm the thread topic here, I'm certainly entitled to defend myself

[Shanerredflag]

As we sit here somewhere in the world someone is working on something that will make all of this irrelevant...history has a way of repeating...I just hope BlackBerry buys them before anyone else.

[MasterOfBinary]

Is it ok if I go to wp and start touting Blackberry 10, need some direction here Mods, what say yee all?

Problem is, someone started bashing WP here (granted, it was after a WP post on the WP site) and then Daniel came to counter it. Don't say none of us would do that at iMore if they started hating on BlackBerry

[TomJasper]

" But everyone keeps saying "Windows Phone has had three years..." which is absolutely true. The difference is, I'm not convinced BB will have any more luck than Windows Phone--you folks will deal with the exact same nonsense we faced over the last three years"

Wrong , wrong, wrong , but thanks for finally getting to the root of YOUR angst,not sure it needed 14 posts to get there but meh.

Pre-orders of Blackberry 10 show a large amount of those pre-orders are from non Blackberry owners, sooooo, it's happening, Blackberry 10 has already started to take market share from other platforms. No worries bout us, we see no nonsense in our future, I see market share coming to Blackberry 10, oh soooo yummy.

[Daniel Rubino]

I can say the new Blackberry is behaving like a startup and they are more agile than MSFT (lackluster WP8 (no notifications, skype, poor enterprise support again, no killer apps))

Define poor enterprise support.

Also, what's wrong with Skype on Windows Phone?

Whatever "killer apps" Windows Phone lacks is not made up by BB10...

[Cappyshirt]

" But everyone keeps saying "Windows Phone has had three years..." which is absolutely true. The difference is, I'm not convinced BB will have any more luck than Windows Phone--you folks will deal with the exact same nonsense we faced over the last three years"

Wrong , wrong, wrong , but thanks for finally getting to the root of YOUR angst,not sure it needed 14 posts to get there but meh.

Pre-orders of Blackberry 10 show a large amount of those pre-orders are from non Blackberry owners, sooooo, it's happening, Blackberry 10 has already started to take market share from other platforms. No worries bout us, we see no nonsense in our future, I see market share coming to Blackberry 10, oh soooo yummy.

That's not an agrument you can't say "A vague amount people are forsure gonna buy a blackberry z10 based on pre-registration and none of them have ever had one, therefore I win"

[TomJasper]

Really? I wish I could 'dis-like' this comment.

Good idea as I see about 18 posts (so far,lol) that I could apply that to.

[BBThemes]

I call for a mobile nations round table like a few years ago.

dunno what webOSnation can bring, of course theres always the nexus with open webOS, just dont give the phone to phil nickinson, he`ll put it back on android

anyways, on that note recall the one from a few years back, the HTC HD2 was `huge` back then (still like the looks that device had). oh how times have changed lol

[rexxenex]

I'm enjoying this thread!

[Daniel Rubino]

"Pre-orders of Blackberry 10 show a large amount of those pre-orders are from non Blackberry owners, sooooo, it's happening, Blackberry 10 has already started to take market share from other platforms. No worries bout us, we see no nonsense in our future, I see market share coming to Blackberry 10, oh soooo yummy.

Preorders in Canada, right? Why am I not shocked...

Like the rest of the world, I'll wait for some more solid information I also don't have "angst" just a position I'm taking. Stop trying to psychoanalyze this.

[TomJasper]

That's not an agrument you can't say "A vague amount people are forsure gonna buy a blackberry z10 based on pre-registration and none of them have ever had one, therefore I win"

It's a metric that can surely be used, it's called % of adoption rates my friend. One can pontificate all they wish,yet one can't bend math.

[miketko]

well i left my comment for him. crackberry nation should rap him with hate comments haha