[Jake Storm]

...with a steady and some would say steep market decline over the last 12 months. It remains to be seen if consumers will want BB10.

Attachment 133402
Source: Kantar World Panel

Again, not false information, but you leave out the whole truth.
Yes the BB "market share" has declined in the last year... Because they were still selling only the last generation (BB7) phones.
The funny thing is. Even with old dated phones (the flagship Bold 9900 is a year and a half old) THEY STILL BLEW WINDOWS PHONES OUT OF THE WATER IN SALES!

Dan, I was on your side at the beginning of the thread, but after reading your replies... you just sound sad and desperate.

[mathking606]

I personally believe that the negative sentiment for BB is overblown in the U.S. Most people are pretty neutral. It's just us tech enthusiasts that buy into this.

I feel the same way.

[BBOttawa]

In fact, Windows Phone was the first OS to have native Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn support built into the OS.

I'm pretty sure Blackberry had Facebook and Twitter built into BB6-7 way before Windows Phone 7 did.

You're free to write your opinion pieces, just make sure all the facts are kosher and you aren't completely ignoring all the strengths of the competing platform you are comparing WP to, Kevin makes sure to point out things that other OS's do better, don't be that guy that avoids all the positive parts of BB10 to make your point. You have a strong enough argument for WP in one sentence you wrote: Microsoft has barrels full of cash and will not give up. That is huge.

They are a very formidable challenger for third place.

[mathking606]

Well guys I see another editorial on BB10 fans attacking the editor in chief of WP Central tommorrow and Kevin is now going to get it on the next podcast. LOL

[Shanerredflag]

Another musical interlude

[MartyMcfly]

I'm pretty sure Blackberry had Facebook and Twitter built into BB6-7 way before Windows Phone 7 did.

You're free to write your opinion pieces, just make sure all the facts are kosher and you aren't completely ignoring all the strengths of the competing platform you are comparing WP to, Kevin makes sure to point out things that other OS's do better, don't be that guy that avoids all the positive parts of BB10 to make your point. You have a strong enough argument for WP in one sentence you wrote: Microsoft has barrels full of cash and will not give up. That is huge.

They are a very formidable challenger for third place.

He pointed out BB's strong points, I don't understand why everyone is giving him a hard time. He posted his opinion piece on his site.


Sent from my Iphone 5 using Tapatalk

[formerwebosfan]

The problem with webos WAS the hardware and a lack of money. The development team was literally writing code the day before CES. Throw in owners that didn't have a clue about what they had and the Pre was doomed from day 1. I was a day 1 owner and I would still have a webos phone but the gestures in Blackberry look like a great alternative. Check out webos nations, Derek has written some fantastic articles about the failures webos suffered.

[Cappyshirt]

It's been 3 years since Windows Phone got re-launched..I am yet to find a person using a Windows Phone or even worst talk about a Windows Phone, so it is that bad for Windows Phone and IMHO I don't see much happening even after Windows Phone 10 in the distance future. Windows Phone is another Zune thing for MSFT.

Okay...We'll I know a lot people who like there WP and have no complaint.

Also, why does everyone hate when someone makes fun of there 'favorite' platform. But when the talk is about the 3, there quick to judge.

BB10 is a great platform, let's all get off our high horses and stop acting like it's King of the world and leave it at that.

[mgm1979]

Should be pretty funny to dig this thread up in about 6 months, and see how the landscape has changed for both sides...will BB10 have a firm grasp on 3rd, or WP8? Will Dan still be peddling his propaganda for WPCentral, or the likes of Engadget? Will Kevin have hired his replacement yet, or will there even be a site to have a need for a replacement?

I think I'm going to set a reminder in Google Calendar, which will still be able to sync to my BB device this summer...lol

[MasterOfBinary]

The one crucial advantage BlackBerry has over Windows Phone is that BB has already proven itself in the mobile tech space. Even though BB10 is a brand new OS, most people will still associate that with the previous BBOS. Whether this turns out to be a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen, but the general response (from what I've seen and heard) is that people who have been waiting to go back to BB with a "modern" OS are excited by BB10. There are previous customers to be swayed. This is in stark contrast to Microsoft still having to prove itself in the mobile market and has to win most of its customers on its merits alone.

Still, I find it puzzling that WP8 hasn't caught on more. I think it's a beautiful OS and, for me, it ranks just below BB10 in my excitement and attraction to the current crop of mobile OSs

I think it's a bad thing if people associate it with the old BB. Most people don't like old BB's. But it's the same with Windows' old mobile OS's...

What MS has going for them is that they already have three quarters of the desktop market, and they already have an ecosystem. BlackBerry is starting over with everything to build one, although their advantage would be the current BB users.

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

I think it's a bad thing if people associate it with the old BB. Most people don't like old BB's. But it's the same with Windows' old mobile OS's...

What MS has going for them is that they already have three quarters of the desktop market, and they already have an ecosystem. BlackBerry is starting over with everything to build one, although their advantage would be the current BB users.

you are making it sound like wp8 is just launching now. They have had three quarters of the desktop market "advantage" for MONTHS since the wp8 have been released yet sales lag behind even bb7.

[MasterOfBinary]

Honestly though Dan why was there a need for the editorial(opinion) on BB10. Did you want page hits or to just make all the WP people feel good about themselves. Just because WP looks nicer (IMO it does not) I do not feel there was a lot of innovation. I understand that it does not look like the usual rows of icons but it is just the same an app drawer. Please educate me on why I should buy a WP8. I find that the Lumia 920 is way to big to be a phone, wireless charging is an unneeded novelty, the display is not better, the apps are annoying to use(my opinion), not notifications(yet), and I find that Microsoft does not really know who they are trying to sell their phone to in the market. Why should I buy a phone that looks like it was built with Fishers Price for my business. You could say skydrive, skype(BB10 will have it), and office. BB10 already has an office app in docs to go that works well and with Box and Dropbox integration built in to the OS it is worth it for businesses since a lot of them already use Dropbox and Box. IDK if skydrive has seen huge improvements but when I use to use it before it was a real pain. Please reply and tell me what you think.

Fisher Price for business... designed by a team that's currently a part of BlackBerry. Yep, TAT worked on WP's Metro interface.

[Dapper37]

Excellent! And add in some pudding wrestling.

LOL, I'm out!

[Cappyshirt]

this conversation is a lot like talking about which console is better....

"the xbox sold more units so its better!"
"the ps3 has better games!!!"

[MasterOfBinary]

Or Pepsi vs. Coke. Problem is, I like BB and WP.

[sf49ers]

Fisher Price for business... designed by a team that's currently a part of BlackBerry. Yep, TAT worked on WP's Metro interface.

What's your point? yes Tat has an hand in Android, WP Metro and Meego. Tat was a design shop and they give you hundred designs and concepts but it up to the company how they would like to pursue it based on their vision, customer demographic and market demands

here's their concept by which WP UI is inspired by

[FlashFlare11]

I think it's a bad thing if people associate it with the old BB. Most people don't like old BB's. But it's the same with Windows' old mobile OS's...

What MS has going for them is that they already have three quarters of the desktop market, and they already have an ecosystem. BlackBerry is starting over with everything to build one, although their advantage would be the current BB users.

I disagree. Like I said above, I believe the negative sentiment that surrounds BlackBerry to be vastly exaggerated in the United States. That was, more or less, created by the tech bloggers and enthusiasts. I didn't even know that BB and BB users faced such ridicule until bloggers started "reporting" of negative BB sentiment. BlackBerry has great a great brand and still commands respect from what I've personally witnessed.

Also, like I said above, BlackBerry still has 79 million current users and millions of former users that it can try to bring (or bring back) to BB with BB10. Those people still have some kind of attachment to BB and many would love to use a BB with a "modern" OS (a la BB10). Microsoft has a tougher battle because it has to win all of its customers through the merits of its OS alone whereas BB can play on the "legacy" factor. I also don't think desktop really plays as much of a factor as we think. Windows is the most widely used desktop OS (by a huge margin), yet WP hasn't really caught on. And it's not like there's a lot of synergy between desktop Windows and Windows Phone. I just don't think it plays that much of a factor.

[TomJasper]

dont see why he had to bring palm into it

He was (in my opinion) spoiling for a fight, it's cheap shot journo.

My gut tells me wp8 biggest fan feeling left out because most compares in cyber land only include Blackberry 10 to iOS/droid compare,that's why I won't go over there and comment to the editorial,that in my opinion was the original intent of the editorial.

Nothing personal against the guy, it's his methods that speak volumes.

[southlander]

not all that bad. his opinions are much more solid and fair to me than the BGR review which was clearly grabbing at straws talking about such non sense as finger grease.

personally I like windows phone and would like to see both it and blackberry 10 go on strong and eat into apple and android share.

Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk 2

[Dapper37]

Yup, which is my whole "legacy" argument in favor of BB10. Still, now that the iPhone has entered enterprise and BYOD is catching on, the "need" for BB has diminished. In addition, WP8 now offers bit-locker encryption of the device and remote management of everything, including private app stores, making competition more brutal.


Which is why BB users need to be cautious. Technically speaking there is nothing wrong with Windows Phone. Sure, folks might not like the aesthetics, but the OS itself is solid (great battery life, very stable, easy to use). Previous arguments like uninteresting hardware, price, availability and the "app gap" have all disappeared, yet it's still only slowly catching on.

There's a legitimate argument to be had not about who's going to be in third place but is there room for a third.

I can guarantee theres room for a 3rd How big is that 3rd. Not sure. Security demands a 3rd! Enter BB10, QNX and the NOC!

[mathking606]

The desktop has nothing to do with people owning the phone. If that was the case no one would have an android device. And anyway over half of the computers running windows are on xp anyway.

[Daniel Rubino]

adding the graph is like adding "they are in third, BUT..."
It remains to be seen about bb10 has nothing to do with currently being third.

don't defer.

Blackberry is in third place.

Not deferring. You're claim is based on a technicality. Someone logically has to be in third place. That's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking can BlackBerry survive in distance third for long if BB10 sales are tepid? If BB marketshare is 1.1% in the US is that sustainable? No.

The question is can any mobile OS successfully capture positive marketshare in third place with steady growth in the face of iOS and Android? That has not been demonstrated at all. That's just a fact.

Sales don't have to be bad for BB10 either, they just have to be lukewarm and it'll cause negative feedback for BB. Case in point.

[Justthecrack]

He pointed out BB's strong points, I don't understand why everyone is giving him a hard time. He posted his opinion piece on his site.


Sent from my Iphone 5 using Tapatalk

And now people are giving their opinion of his opinion on this site. Do opinions stop upon WP website exit?

[MasterOfBinary]

What's your point? yes Tat has an hand in Android, WP Metro and Meego. Tat was a design shop and they give you hundred designs and concepts but it up to the company how they would like to pursue it based on their vision, customer demographic and market demands

here's their concept by which WP UI is inspired by

My point is I disagree with his dissing the Metro interface. Sure, it's different and it looks a little boring in the pictures. But I think the WP interface is sexy. I have Windows 8 on my computer - and pictures don't do it justice, just like seeing pictures of BB10 are cool but when you actually see it in action it's like OMG!!!

Besides, if every phone looked the same it would be a pretty boring world, right?

[Daniel Rubino]

Again, not false information, but you leave out the whole truth.
Yes the BB "market share" has declined in the last year... Because they were still selling only the last generation (BB7) phones.
The funny thing is. Even with old dated phones (the flagship Bold 9900 is a year and a half old) THEY STILL BLEW WINDOWS PHONES OUT OF THE WATER IN SALES!

Dan, I was on your side at the beginning of the thread, but after reading your replies... you just sound sad and desperate.

You misunderstood what I'm saying, that's why.

BlackBerry has a hole to dig themselves out of, that's just a fact. It's not clear that even if BB10 is good that consumers will want it--at least in significant amount to be successful in the long run. That's not a definite. Just because they're "technically in third" it is not a good nor strong position to be in. That's not me sounding "sad and desperate".

I have said ZERO (good or bad) about Windows Phone sales in this thread.