[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

The Palm Pre was solid hardware with an OS that never realized its potential. Palm's problem was mismanagement (the early split of the company), poor launch partners, being screwed by Verizon, running out of capital and of course being bought by HP.

Microsoft has billions and their stubborn as ****. Evidence: Xbox (they lost an estimated $6 billion before turning a profit).

Even if Windows Phone doesn't catch on, it won't stop them because they know how important mobile is. In a war of attrition for third place, Microsoft has the advantage over BlackBerry--after all, Microsoft's entire business is not riding on mobile.

Are you implying that Blackberry 10 OS will not reach its potential?

[lnichols]

He's pissed because people are pissed they can't buy BB10 and don't want to buy Windows Phone.

[Daniel Rubino]

I did not realize instagram, paypal or even facebook or twitter apps are available on windows mobile. i do not own windows phone but i own windows 8 and i cannot find any of these apps in metro.
so how is that any better on windows phone ?

On Windows Phone (which is different from Windows 8) and these are all official apps, not third party:

• PayPal App: Yes
• Twitter App: Yes (plus built in)
• Facebook App: Yes (plus built in)
• Instagram: No

In fact, Windows Phone was the first OS to have native Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn support built into the OS.

The Instagram part was kind of the point.

Had BB10 launched with that, it would have been very bad news for Windows Phone. As of now, the two OSs are both at a huge disadvantage for not having it and it will hinder adoption and people switching. Not having Instagram on Windows Phone is currently the top cited reason by a lot of people for not adopting the OS.

Microsoft and Nokia are working hard to get it and fingers are crossed for a Mobile World Congress announcement, but until then, it's a big hole on anyone's platform to not have it. (That's coming from someone who hates the concept of Instagram too.)

[Shanerredflag]

It was tongue in cheek...

[FlashFlare11]

The one crucial advantage BlackBerry has over Windows Phone is that BB has already proven itself in the mobile tech space. Even though BB10 is a brand new OS, most people will still associate that with the previous BBOS. Whether this turns out to be a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen, but the general response (from what I've seen and heard) is that people who have been waiting to go back to BB with a "modern" OS are excited by BB10. There are previous customers to be swayed. This is in stark contrast to Microsoft still having to prove itself in the mobile market and has to win most of its customers on its merits alone.

Still, I find it puzzling that WP8 hasn't caught on more. I think it's a beautiful OS and, for me, it ranks just below BB10 in my excitement and attraction to the current crop of mobile OSs

[Daniel Rubino]

Are you implying that Blackberry 10 OS will not reach its potential?

It's a volatile market. Anything can happen and I have not and will not make a prediction what will happen to BB10. I think they have a chance and my points above about their strengths is testament to this notion.

Having said that, BlackBerry as a company is at more risk than Microsoft as a whole. If Windows Phone did completely fail, Microsoft will still be here tomorrow. The same can't be said for BlackBerry.

[Daniel Rubino]

The one crucial advantage BlackBerry has over Windows Phone is that BB has already proven itself in the mobile tech space.

Yup, which is my whole "legacy" argument in favor of BB10. Still, now that the iPhone has entered enterprise and BYOD is catching on, the "need" for BB has diminished. In addition, WP8 now offers bit-locker encryption of the device and remote management of everything, including private app stores, making competition more brutal.

Still, I find it puzzling that WP8 hasn't caught on more. I think it's a beautiful OS and, for me, it ranks just below BB10 in my excitement and attraction to the current crop of mobile OSs

Which is why BB users need to be cautious. Technically speaking there is nothing wrong with Windows Phone. Sure, folks might not like the aesthetics, but the OS itself is solid (great battery life, very stable, easy to use). Previous arguments like uninteresting hardware, price, availability and the "app gap" have all disappeared, yet it's still only slowly catching on.

There's a legitimate argument to be had not about who's going to be in third place but is there room for a third.

[Andrew4life]

Kevin's review of WP8 AND BLACKBERRY 10 was pretty neutral.....

Fixed.
Honestly, I was surprised at the neutrality of Kevin's review. As Mr. CrackBerry, he took his time to make sure to point out pros AND cons.


As for the original post. I decided to read the post that Daniel wrote and though I do not agree with everything, it is not blatantly wrong or blatantly throwing out any mis-information.
It is however somewhat misinforming by purposely leaving out information such as The Hub or BlackBerry Flow or the keyboard, or the swipe gestures, etc. You know, all the key selling points of the BlackBerry 10 platform.

What this reminds me of is the Samsung ad: http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/...y-s3-print-ad/
Basically compare features that your phone has, to what the other phone has. But don't show features that the other phones have, that you don't have.

It was definitely not a neutral article, but it was not blatantly throwing out false facts either.

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

Why weren't you posting this much prior to launch on a platform competing mobiles nations site?

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

Yup, which is my whole "legacy" argument in favor of BB10. Still, now that the iPhone has entered enterprise and BYOD is catching on, the "need" for BB has diminished. In addition, WP8 now offers bit-locker encryption of the device and remote management of everything, including private app stores, making competition more brutal.


Which is why BB users need to be cautious. Technically speaking there is nothing wrong with Windows Phone. Sure, folks might not like the aesthetics, but the OS itself is solid (great battery life, very stable, easy to use). Previous arguments like uninteresting hardware, price, availability and the "app gap" have all disappeared, yet it's still only slowly catching on.

There's a legitimate argument to be had not about who's going to be in third place but is there room for a third.

Yes theres room for a third. Blackberry is there right now

[bizzyqu]

My First Smartphone <3

[Daniel Rubino]

Yes theres room for a third. Blackberry is there right now

...with a steady and some would say steep market decline over the last 12 months. It remains to be seen if consumers will want BB10.


Source: Kantar World Panel

[mathking606]

Honestly though Dan why was there a need for the editorial(opinion) on BB10. Did you want page hits or to just make all the WP people feel good about themselves. Just because WP looks nicer (IMO it does not) I do not feel there was a lot of innovation. I understand that it does not look like the usual rows of icons but it is just the same an app drawer. Please educate me on why I should buy a WP8. I find that the Lumia 920 is way to big to be a phone, wireless charging is an unneeded novelty, the display is not better, the apps are annoying to use(my opinion), not notifications(yet), and I find that Microsoft does not really know who they are trying to sell their phone to in the market. Why should I buy a phone that looks like it was built with Fishers Price for my business. You could say skydrive, skype(BB10 will have it), and office. BB10 already has an office app in docs to go that works well and with Box and Dropbox integration built in to the OS it is worth it for businesses since a lot of them already use Dropbox and Box. IDK if skydrive has seen huge improvements but when I use to use it before it was a real pain. Please reply and tell me what you think.

[RobertM24]

I read this yesterday, and I didn't really see anything wrong with this piece. Think about that time when Kevin posted an article with a pic of him "taking a dump" on an iPad. He's just giving CB readers what they want.

The only parts I thought were odd, was when he called the OS boring and the hardware boring.

He is clearly entitled to his own opinion on both of these, but I don't really know what a "boring" phone looks like? Is it just because they went for only black/white, instead of the vibrant colours of WP8? Sure, he's entitled to his own opinion, but it seems odd to me to call a phone "boring" because it's not lime green or something.
As for the OS, its the same scenario from what I see. He said the icon layout was boring, and similar to iOS and Android. I don't really see how being similar to those 2 is boring. Windows chose 'tiles' which is a different take on things, sure, its neat to see something different but I dont know if its innovative or exciting per se just because it is different from the norm? So I don't get the idea of saying that the 3 other OSes are boring because they use grids? Yes, we've seen icon grids a lot, but that's what the majority of individuals seem to want right now (based on sales), I don't really get how that's "boring" or somehow lacking in innovation.

Again, he's entitled to his own opinion, and overall, I support the piece, some people are going to criticize aspects of BB10, that's life and CB members have to learn that... But I feel these 2 points were odd, because by calling them "boring" it seems he is essentially saying "All [non-wp8] phones are boring", and that seems like a very unique view to me

[Cappyshirt]

I like what you have to say Dan, I think you brought up a lot great point that may not be sinking in with other members. The Mobile business is incredibly volatile, and that's why I don't believe there that one advantage so-and-so platform has over the other, that's not how world works. WP8 is a strong competitor to BB10, It doesn't matter how many BB phones are out there, RIM needs to be pushing hard (which they'll do) for this "3rd" place position (which doesn't exist atm imo).

Because if we worked by that logic about how many phones have been sold, Android would be the 1# mobile platform and would have it for years.

[Daniel Rubino]

Why weren't you posting this much prior to launch on a platform competing mobiles nations site?

In all honestly, I'm having trouble parsing what you are saying here. I think you mean why was I so vehement against BB10 versus Android or iPhone?

That's not accurate. Here's where I wrote why the iPhone 5 was underwhelming compared to the Lumia 920. And I notoriously rip into Android and Google all the time. In fact, we rail against Google almost routinely now due to their behavior on opening up their services.

To be honest, we barely ever talk about BlackBerry.

[Daniel Rubino]

Honestly though Dan why was there a need for the editorial(opinion) on BB10. Did you want page hits or to just make all the WP people feel good about themselves.

Neither. It was us answering the question Is BB10 a threat to Windows Phone?

It's a legitimate question to ask and answer on BB10's official announcement. We simply weighed the pros/cons of each in quick editorial--a gut reaction if you will. We do that here all the time at Mobile Nations: OS platform announces big news, everyone reacts.

It would have been more weird for us to pretend BB10 didn't happen yesterday and just carried on. You may not like how I handled it--totally legit complaint--but that was our immediate reaction to the news of the day.

[mathking606]

There's a legitimate argument to be had not about who's going to be in third place but is there room for a third.

I do not think there is room for a another OS to capture huge market share but that is the difference with BlackBerry. They can afford to be a niche product still which I can see happening where as Microsoft is pushing Windows Phone to become as popular as IOS and Android which I can not see happening but who knows. From what I have seen here in Canada there is no real awareness of windows phone even with all of the advertising that they have and I do not know how many businesses are willing to choose Windows phone over the alternatives. Yeah it might have some good security but it also shares a lot of code with desktop version of W8 which I would think would bring over a lot of the malware. I'm not trying to hat on Windows Phone but I am just being realistic as I am with BB10. I would live it if BB10 and WP were the top OSes because I do not understand why people love IOS and Android but that is for another rant.

[Zarpan]

...with a steady and some would say steep market decline over the last 12 months. It remains to be seen if consumers will want BB10.


Source: Kantar World Panel

Of course, those market figures compare the after-launch WP8 period vs. the pre-launch BB10 period. Given that the BB7 devices are aging, it is to be expected that few people would purchase a new BB7 device in GB or the US with the BB10 launch upcoming.

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

...with a steady and some would say steep market decline over the last 12 months. It remains to be seen if consumers will want BB10.


Source: Kantar World Panel

adding the graph is like adding "they are in third, BUT..."
It remains to be seen about bb10 has nothing to do with currently being third.

don't defer.

Blackberry is in third place.

[mathking606]

Neither. It was us answering the question Is BB10 a threat to Windows Phone?

It's a legitimate question to ask and answer on BB10's official announcement. We simply weighed the pros/cons of each in quick editorial--a gut reaction if you will. We do that here all the time at Mobile Nations: OS platform announces big news, everyone reacts.

It would have been more weird for us to pretend BB10 didn't happen yesterday and just carried on. You may not like how I handled it--totally legit complaint--but that was our immediate reaction to the news of the day.

Yeah but you did an opinion editorial. I can't understand why you would not just compare the two and say here make your own conclusion. Though even in the podcasts you come across as though Microsoft is everything and nobody else has a chance. I do agree with you on the Google and them not liking to open up their services. It is weird as most of their money is from advertising anyway so you would think they would get it on to every platform anyway.

[FlashFlare11]

Yup, which is my whole "legacy" argument in favor of BB10. Still, now that the iPhone has entered enterprise and BYOD is catching on, the "need" for BB has diminished. In addition, WP8 now offers bit-locker encryption of the device and remote management of everything, including private app stores, making competition more brutal.


Which is why BB users need to be cautious. Technically speaking there is nothing wrong with Windows Phone. Sure, folks might not like the aesthetics, but the OS itself is solid (great battery life, very stable, easy to use). Previous arguments like uninteresting hardware, price, availability and the "app gap" have all disappeared, yet it's still only slowly catching on.

There's a legitimate argument to be had not about who's going to be in third place but is there room for a third.

I can't really comment on enterprise. I don't know how well Microsoft and WP compete in that space, nor do I know of its advantages there. Sorry!

I do think that Microsoft and BlackBerry went after two different ways of presenting an OS and we'll ultimately see which one appeals to the consumer more. Windows Phone presents a radically different user interface and design styles. It really does present a gorgeous UI. However, users interact with the OS much the same as they do on iOS and Android. BlackBerry 10, though, features a UI (by that I mean static app grid) that's pretty similar to what's found on other OSs (barring WP) but the way the user interacts with the UI is different. They both appeal to two different kinds of people.

I think there is definitely room for a third and even a fourth OS. Nokia has a great reputation internationally and Microsoft should do everything possible to milk this partnership as much as possible. BlackBerry, also, has a great reputation almost everywhere. I personally believe that the negative sentiment for BB is overblown in the U.S. Most people are pretty neutral. It's just us tech enthusiasts that buy into this.

[sf49ers]

It's been 3 years since Windows Phone got re-launched..I am yet to find a person using a Windows Phone or even worst talk about a Windows Phone, so it is that bad for Windows Phone and IMHO I don't see much happening even after Windows Phone 10 in the distance future. Windows Phone is another Zune thing for MSFT.

[kbz1960]

...with a steady and some would say steep market decline over the last 12 months. It remains to be seen if consumers will want BB10.


Source: Kantar World Panel

I don't know how these charts show anything since BB10 wasn't available then or now yet. Hold this off for a few quarters.

[Cappyshirt]

I think the point is that blackberry can take shelter in it's ever growing niche and slowly expand outwards. While WP can sustain it's self with MS's allowance for years, before it returns a valuable profit. And we should be worried about that.