1. ugahairydawgs's Avatar
    06-27-11 07:26 AM
  2. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    Hey guy, post the article in the thread so we don't have to go to the page.


    June 27 (Bloomberg) -- Research In Motion Ltd., struggling to compete in the smartphone market with Apple Inc. and Google Inc., is losing support among some software developers who have been making programs for the company’s BlackBerry.

    Seesmic Inc., a developer of social-media applications, and Mobile Roadie LLC, which makes apps for fans of the Miami Dolphins and country singer Taylor Swift, have decided to stop making products for RIM. Purple Forge Corp., which makes programs for political campaigns and polling, will stop building BlackBerry versions of its apps unless customers request it.

    “You have to put your resources where the growth is,” Seesmic Chief Executive Officer Loic Le Meur said in an interview. “It’s coming down to the explosive growth of the iPhone and the Android operating systems.”

    RIM has been trying to build support among developers to fight back against Apple and Google’s Android, which have drawn away users with greater varieties of applications. RIM last week said quarterly revenue may drop for the first time in nine years and unveiled plans to cut jobs.

    The Waterloo, Ontario-based company’s share of global smartphone sales fell to 12.9 percent in the first quarter from 19.7 percent a year earlier, as Apple gained and Android more than tripled to 36 percent, according to researcher Gartner Inc.

    RIM said it continues to increase the number of programs for customers. There are more than 35,000 apps in the company’s online store, up from the more than 25,000 in March, said Marisa Conway, a spokeswoman. There are more than 200,000 apps in the Android Market and more than 425,000 in Apple’s App Store.

    Expensive ‘Gotchas’

    The developers are stepping back from BlackBerry because they say creating apps is too complex and costly for the size of the market. RIM’s devices have different screens sizes, varied operating systems and several ways to navigate, from a physical keyboard to touchscreen to a scroll button.

    “As soon as RIM brought in a touchscreen and mixed it with a thumbwheel, a keyboard and shortcut keys, it made it really difficult and expensive to develop across devices,” said Purple Forge CEO Brian Hurley. “What Apple scored big on is having a touch screen and a button and that’s it.”

    There are also costly surprises that turn up during development for RIM, Hurley said in an interview.

    “In deploying Apple applications, there are very few surprises,” said Hurley. “In Android, there are increasingly more surprises. But in BlackBerry, there are immediately lots of gotchas across the board.”

    ‘Whoa’

    When Seesmic’s Le Meur tried to load his San Francisco- based company’s application on the new BlackBerry Playbook tablet, the application wouldn’t run, he said.

    “To me it was like, ‘Whoa.’ BlackBerry isn’t even an option,” Le Meur said.

    For Mobile Roadie, which allows its customers to design and build their own applications, the variation across devices was particularly frustrating. In an interview, CEO Michael Schneider said users would blame the Beverly Hills-based company for inconveniences like distorted images on different-sized screens.

    “At the end of the day, I even felt like developing for BlackBerry could be hurting our reputation,” Schneider said.

    The decision to back away from BlackBerry was made easier by waning user engagement, developers said.

    “When we put an application in the field, there was a 20- to-1 difference between Apple and BlackBerry downloads,” said Purple Forge’s Hurley. The Ottawa, Ontario-based company devotes about 80 percent of its investment to Apple development.

    Growing Challenge?

    Schneider said less than 2 percent of BlackBerry users interacted with Mobile Roadie’s applications, compared with more than 50 percent of iPhone and Android users.

    “We were putting a ton of resources into something users were not engaging in,” he said.

    The challenges for RIM may grow with a new operating system it’s planning to use across all its devices. The company, after buying QNX Software Systems last year, introduced its BlackBerry PlayBook tablet in April on a new QNX operating system and plans to introduce BlackBerry phones built on QNX next year.

    That switch will only encourage more developers to not bother with the BlackBerry OS used on current devices and adopt a wait-and-see approach to RIM, said Peter Misek, an analyst with Jefferies & Co. in New York.

    “The vast majority of developers build for Android and iOS and have no plans to build for RIM until QNX is fully up and they can evaluate it,” said Misek, who has an “underperform” rating on RIM. “Until then, they are unlikely to support QNX in any meaningful way as an active platform.”
    06-27-11 09:25 AM
  3. breakmedown's Avatar
    I'm hardly surprised. Blackberry is gonna lose a lot of the commercial and social market because, like they said, it's hard to build for and is going by the way side. People and businesses who want specific apps and want specifically blackberry can build their own programs and limit the devices available so they don't have to worry about cross building all thsoe applications. I could see where some of these companies would have a problem with that.

    Although, Android is the same way. The only difference is that they're becoming far more popular and so many people are jumping on to that. And Apple is just so simple to program for.

    The thing that bothered me was Seesmic saying that "most popular platforms: Android, iOS and Windows Phone 7." Windows Phone 7? Really? There aren't even enough devices out to compete with the rest of them, even if it's an outstanding platform.
    06-27-11 09:40 AM
  4. HeezyBear's Avatar
    You really can't complain with what these different organizations are saying in the article. At the end of the day they're out to make money and they're going to do whatever they can to make the most. They don't play favorites like a lot of these "analysts" might.

    So it begs the question, should RIM focus on a few models of BlackBerry? Maybe 2 or 3? Why not have a few devices that fit the needs of everyone and thus make supporting it easier?
    06-27-11 10:15 AM
  5. Exiled Bulldawg's Avatar
    A user picks a handset because they believe it will serve their purposes better than the other choices. Apple and Google view their devices as handheld computers. RIM doesn't. Apple and Google make easy to use SDK's. RIM makes hard to use SDK's (see the online rant by a developer who posted the viral rant RIM responded to.)

    I used an iTouch for my applications until I was issued an Android phone. Now I use it for all my apps. My Blackberry is used for personal e-mail and texts. Even then it's aggravating when RIM truncates my e-mail. I have to log in with my Android phone and see the HTML: RIM - that = EPIC FAIL.

    I want Blackbery to be revolutionary like it was when I was issued my first Berry... It didn't even have a phone but I went from two addresses, to one. It freed me from my desk and replaced my Palm for scheduling and contacts... but I still carried the Palm for apps. It is 10 years later and I was carrying an iTouch to replace the Palm for apps. Later this year, I will carry an iPhone 5 and a Droid 2 Global. Two full featured phones. One for business. One with my personal life on it. This time I am replacing RIM, I just can't see keeping a Berry when I can get so much more for the same price.

    And I am terribly sad it's coming to this. Ballsillie runs around crowing about how little data us Berry users use... that may be by design, but it is going to be the death of the platform. RIM must compete and evolve. Or the alternative will happen.
    Last edited by Exiled Bulldawg; 06-27-11 at 11:34 PM.
    K Bear likes this.
    06-27-11 11:28 PM
  6. mmcpher's Avatar
    I don't know, there are an awful lot of Blackberries out there. If its currently easier to write for Apple or Droid, developers must also face the huge clutter and competition with those apps. Blackberry is still a huge market and they are changing the options for developers and the way they do business with them. So long as we get quality, useful apps, the rest can have apps by boatload.
    06-28-11 12:39 AM
  7. blackjack93117's Avatar
    So it begs the question, should RIM focus on a few models of BlackBerry? Maybe 2 or 3? Why not have a few devices that fit the needs of everyone and thus make supporting it easier?
    So long as we get quality, useful apps, the rest can have apps by boatload.
    Well said - they do need to stop trying for a small unsustainable piece of the general consumer market with too many glam phones (Pearl, style, etc.), and "game" apps none of which have caught on as "must haves" by the intended demographic. The Torch2 and the Bold touch is all we really need/want. Drop everything else and focus on making these awesome with software and a small set of quality serious apps that are actually useful instead of millions that are just semi-entertaining if even that. RIM should focus on what it does best and what it advertises Playbook to be - a professional platform. Leave the fun and games to those devices that already have that market covered better than RIM ever will. Let Playbook be a specialty professional tool with specialty professional apps that don't do as well on any other platform or device.
    .
    Last edited by blackjack93117; 06-28-11 at 01:44 AM.
    06-28-11 01:35 AM
  8. berryaddictnoza's Avatar
    Of all the things troubling BB now, I see getting dropped by app developers as the thing that will finish off BB. Time to spend some of the cash RIM has and get after it, maybe even working with the app developers directly if need be. Yeah, most of the apps on Android and iPhone are a waste of electrons, so RIM only needs to bring in the really good ones.
    06-28-11 04:14 AM
  9. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I don't know, there are an awful lot of Blackberries out there. If its currently easier to write for Apple or Droid, developers must also face the huge clutter and competition with those apps. Blackberry is still a huge market and they are changing the options for developers and the way they do business with them. So long as we get quality, useful apps, the rest can have apps by boatload.

    The problem is there ARE a lot of Blackberry's BUT you run into too many different screen resolutions, and sizes, and different input's and different OS's it becomes a major challenge to develop

    do you develop for OS 4.5? probably still the MOST used BBOS on the market, or do you develop for OS7?



    IF RIM really wants to get the App game out, they don't need to focus on 2 or 3 form factors, they need to focus on building a scaleable device line up, they need to make form factors share things with eachother for easier software development, like a Curve and a Style having identical hardware with the exception of the second LCD display, and sharing an OS

    The Bold and the "Volt" sharing the same resolution shifted 90 degrees, so app developers again only have to play with the resolution in 1 way, both these devices would share touch API's

    I really hope with QNX they realize they need to make a very easy cross product development tool
    06-28-11 09:09 AM
  10. Exiled Bulldawg's Avatar
    While I agree that quantity doesn't make quality, Blackberry users have almost none. Take the bar code scanning software, works great on iOS and Android. Not so good on Blackberry. Personal finance software - the offerings on iOS and Android are far superior.

    I think RIM should give the SDK to any developer that registers and make appworld free for the first year. Maybe that would entice developers to try.

    And, for the record, Blackberry has more OS's and screen sizes to write for than iOS. Android has a similar problem.
    06-28-11 09:12 AM
  11. CommanderElvis's Avatar
    Key words: FTA

    Schneider said less than 2 percent of BlackBerry users interacted with Mobile Roadie’s applications, compared with more than 50 percent of iPhone and Android users.

    “We were putting a ton of resources into something users were not engaging in,” he said.


    It's mostly for economic reasons. We're not buying the apps these people are selling.
    Last edited by Elvis Da King; 06-28-11 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Style. add italics, bold type
    06-28-11 11:09 AM
  12. BBThemes's Avatar
    do you develop for OS 4.5? probably still the MOST used BBOS on the market, or do you develop for OS7?
    im sorry what? thats totally inaccurate.
    BlackBerry - Choosing a target OS clearly shows which platform is most used, be it for free or paid apps, of course the majority now sits with OS5 as of when this was written but im sure OS6 gains on it every day (for example 9300/9100 was OS5 but is now OS6).

    i had alot of opinions which i did type but decided to delete so as not to offend anyone, but this is two developers out of thousands. i personally know people that have left android development for iOS and vice versa, it happens all the time. lets not act like 2 out of thousands is a big deal. especially when you consider the extra thousands of dev accounts that have been added since this time last year.
    CommanderElvis likes this.
    06-28-11 11:22 AM
  13. Branta's Avatar
    It all seems rather logical. There is no point starting new development for an OS which will only be supported for a few months, probably unsupported before any new projects are ready for prime time. OTOH the next generation of RIM phone-OS is not available yet.

    Besides... who cares if a few third party developers take their ball home. They were probably wanting to do that anyway.
    06-28-11 01:13 PM
  14. papped's Avatar
    I might care if there were that many apps that I like using on my android phone anyways, but there aren't...
    06-28-11 01:16 PM
  15. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    06-28-11 01:17 PM
  16. jtels2593's Avatar
    I can't imagine there are many who consider themselves "Dolphins" fans.

    So what? Who cares? Go make apps for you Android and iPhone's..

    The last time I checked, I don't play games on my Blackberry and I certainly don't have a lot of useless apps cluttering my device. I use my device for making calls, texting, e-mail etc.. I log use the web browser often to check my bank account, ebay and news. I have the iheartradio app, facebook and twitter. If I wanted to play games or waste my life with useless crap, I'd buy an Android or video game system.

    Blackberry has their own unique niche, just like Droid and iPhone. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I can't put it any more simple than that.
    06-28-11 01:39 PM
  17. crashberry's Avatar
    The last time I checked, I don't play games on my Blackberry and I certainly don't have a lot of useless apps cluttering my device. I use my device for making calls, texting, e-mail etc.. I log use the web browser often to check my bank account, ebay and news. I have the iheartradio app, facebook and twitter. If I wanted to play games or waste my life with useless crap, I'd buy an Android or video game system.
    so your whole waking life is all about being just a total serious dude? no games or anything that is not productive?
    06-28-11 04:04 PM
  18. vrs626's Avatar
    I can't imagine there are many who consider themselves "Dolphins" fans.

    So what? Who cares? Go make apps for you Android and iPhone's..

    The last time I checked, I don't play games on my Blackberry and I certainly don't have a lot of useless apps cluttering my device. I use my device for making calls, texting, e-mail etc.. I log use the web browser often to check my bank account, ebay and news. I have the iheartradio app, facebook and twitter. If I wanted to play games or waste my life with useless crap, I'd buy an Android or video game system.

    Blackberry has their own unique niche, just like Droid and iPhone. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I can't put it any more simple than that.
    You're just one person, and to be honest nobody really cares how you use your device. The point of the article and this thread is what impact this will have on RIM as a company, as there are plenty of people out there who care a lot about apps.
    06-28-11 04:08 PM
  19. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    I guess it depends on who you talk to:

    TORONTO Even though at least two companies have recently said they're done making apps for Research in Motion, veteran developers believe there's no reason to bail on the embattled Canadian company.

    Earlier this month, developer Mobile Roadie said BlackBerry apps just aren't popular enough to be worth their while. Last week, a similar announcement was made by Seesmic, which said it was halting support for its BlackBerry Twitter app to focus on the other mobile platforms.

    Seesmic even directed users to BlackBerry apps made by its competitors.

    But Polar Mobile, a Toronto-based app maker with about 300 customers in 10 countries, has no intention of giving up on BlackBerry.

    "We have customers in the United Kingdom, the Middle East, India, Indonesia; these are countries where, on the smartphone side, RIM is an important device for our customers -- as is Android and iPhone -- so if we were to not be on RIM devices I think we'd get a lot of questions," said CEO Kunal Gupta.

    Mobile Roadie, whose clients have included the likes of Madonna, Taylor Swift, Canadian rapper Drake and the NBA champion Dallas Mavericks, said teams tasked with working on BlackBerry products struggled to keep pace with their counterparts coding for Apple and Android devices. And when comparing how their apps across the different platforms were being used, the BlackBerry numbers were dismal.

    "Challenges included smaller screens, underpowered processors compared to iPhone/Android, and BES, BlackBerry's corporate enterprise service, that often wreaked havoc with our app's connection to our servers," the company wrote in a blog post.

    "This wasn't an easy decision, but in the end, we determined that our resources are better spent on iPhone/Android, where users do frequently use apps, engage with them, and transact."

    But David McAllister, vice president of operations for the Franklin, Tenn.-based Metova, said experienced coders who have put in several years learning the ins and outs of BlackBerry development likely won't be making the same decision.

    "We've always had luck with BlackBerry, we built our own tools to help us improve development on BlackBerry to bring it in par with the Android and Apple iOS development tools and we just get great, great assistance from RIM," he said.

    Among Metova's clients are the Associated Press, Cisco, Dropbox, eHarmony, Slacker Radio and Yelp, and McAllister said there continues to be strong interest in BlackBerry development.

    "We're driven by what the market demands so if customers come to us and they want us to do BlackBerry development we are more than happy to do that for them," he said.

    "And although it's not 80 or 90 per cent of our business like it was a few years ago, I'd say Android, BlackBerry and Apple iOS make up the vast majority and they're pretty much evenly split.


    Gupta doesn't anticipate a flood of experienced developers will leave BlackBerry, although he doesn't expect RIM will attract many new recruits either.

    "Experience definitely helps regardless of what you're doing, and I think on the RIM devices, if you're new to them you're not going to have too much success," he said.

    "The technology appears to be challenging for people who don't have the experience and it is also a mindshare issue: RIM has got a lot of negative press in the U.S. and on the outside, without looking deeper, people will get scared away."

    Gupta said developers are generally encouraged by the promise of a new operating system RIM is preparing to roll out, called QNX.

    "QNX presents a new opportunity for guys like us to leverage a stronger OS that's more dynamic and flexible and built to scale," Gupta said, although he added that he's not sure how well QNX will work on smartphones, as opposed to more powerful tablets.

    "I think from a smartphone perspective there could be challenges on taking a very powerful OS, arguably the most powerful OS out, and putting it onto lower-end versions of the BlackBerry."

    McAllister, too, is excited about QNX's potential but wishes its release would be expedited.

    "I think it's slow coming, I think everyone's eagerly waiting to see what RIM's going to do with QNX and I guess to some it up we're hopeful," he said.

    "Anything that happens that's good for RIM is good for any professional services company like ours that develops apps, so I'm just hoping that it's worth it and what they come out with is competitive with Android and iOS."
    CTV Ottawa- RIM losing some app developers, veterans sticking around - CTV News
    06-28-11 04:44 PM
  20. BBThemes's Avatar
    It all seems rather logical. There is no point starting new development for an OS which will only be supported for a few months, probably unsupported before any new projects are ready for prime time. OTOH the next generation of RIM phone-OS is not available yet.
    actually there is a point, we may love BB so much we buy almost every one they bring out (i do as i test on real devices, better peace of mind), however the `normal` customer upgrades their phone when their renewal is up, so lets say mr x buys a 9900 in december 2011, thats maybe 2 years he could be your customer, and thats IF he upgrades, just look at how many 8520/8530 users there are, all running OS5, yet OS6 came out almost a year ago. a phone may only have a shelf life of 8 months or so, but useage is normally at least a contracts length for most people.
    06-28-11 08:59 PM
  21. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    It has been coming for a while. Everyone knows that the money in app development is in iOS, and everyone else follows.

    I also believe that app selection is increasingly becoming a serious criteria when selecting which smartphone platform to adopt. Now, we call them "useless" all we want (which is myopic), but folks want devices that enhance their lives.

    Having said that, I think it is a bit early to be alarmed.
    06-28-11 10:03 PM
  22. ADGrant's Avatar
    It has been coming for a while. Everyone knows that the money in app development is in iOS, and everyone else follows.

    I also believe that app selection is increasingly becoming a serious criteria when selecting which smartphone platform to adopt. Now, we call them "useless" all we want (which is myopic), but folks want devices that enhance their lives.

    Having said that, I think it is a bit early to be alarmed.
    I think that people who regard app selection as an important criteria in chosing a smartphone will be chosing between iOS and Android. They certainly won't be buying a WebOS or Symbian device. WP7 looks questionable too. As for RIM, QNX is too new to have a decent app catalog and BB OS appears to have been put out to pasture by RIM.
    06-29-11 11:27 AM
  23. kbz1960's Avatar
    The old grey mare ain't what she use to be...............but she still gets the job done, just not as well as then new mare on the block or as fast.

    Right now I have everything on my OS 5 phone I care about. I'm looking forward to an OS 7 phone when my upgrade comes. Maybe developers won't write any apps for it or maybe some of the OS 6/ OS 5 apps will be easily ported to work.
    06-29-11 11:48 AM
  24. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Geez, did anyone realize this is more of a press release for those app devs than the overall state of bb apps? Look at the article I posted, they completely contradict the claims of these headline grabbing devs plus they have much bigger clients and are still happily building bb apps. They say its more about experience and skill...

    But of course, anything negative towards RIM gets great media play so they won't give the other side of the story.
    06-29-11 11:59 AM
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