08-14-15 01:32 PM
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  1. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Honest to G_d, the color of ones skin never enters my mind. You can believe it is possible, or not, but it is true. I'll tell you a little story of my childhood. Pearl Bailey happened to be a friend of my parents. We went over to her house often. One day, I asked my mother, why Pearl was always so dirty. I didn't think of her as any different then, and I still don't to this day. Pearl, by the way, liked that so much, she used to tell the joke quite often. And I have a recording she did, of Elumbachero (sp?)live that is amazing, that you AG would really enjoy.





    I find it hard to believe someone can find CrackBerry using Google,
    yet couldn't find their "heat seeking moisture missile" in a speedo once they get here.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-19-09 09:00 PM
  2. tennislvr8's Avatar
    Wulf, I think you are missing envieds' point. The way I interpret it
    is that regardless of our better intentions or nature, the person,
    skin tone and all is what you see first.

    Anyone who denies the fact that they do is pretty much lying.

    Does it shape what we think of the person? Only to the shallow,
    racist or insecure.

    For the rest of us it adds nuance, character and dare I say color to the person.
    Exactly AG, that is my point!

    To just ignore it is a problem. We tried that before with other topics. Then when it jumps up and bites us we look shocked. I'd post more but I'm tired.
    I agree to ignore it is a problem. It is there it is not going anywhere. There is nothing wrong with recognizing it but there is something really wrong with ignoring it and/or recognizing it and then judging based solely on race.
    10-19-09 09:05 PM
  3. tennislvr8's Avatar
    Honest to G_d, the color of ones skin never enters my mind. You can believe it is possible, or not, but it is true. I'll tell you a little story of my childhood. Pearl Bailey happened to be a friend of my parents. We went over to her house often. One day, I asked my mother, why Pearl was always so dirty. I didn't think of her as any different then, and I still don't to this day. Pearl, by the way, liked that so much, she used to tell the joke quite often. And I have a recording she did, of Elumbachero (sp?)live that is amazing, that you AG would really enjoy.



    I find it hard to believe someone can find CrackBerry using Google,
    yet couldn't find their "heat seeking moisture missile" in a speedo once they get here.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    I am sorry to say that I do not find that amusing. I do not want to offend you, your parents or Pearl but that was not cool. How old were you? I would have used that as a teachable moment and let you know of all the different kinds and color of people, maybe I am overanalyzing. But that is a perfect example of the need to recognize the color of one's skin. I really do not mean to offend you, hope I didn't.
    10-19-09 09:10 PM
  4. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I am sorry to say that I do not find that amusing. I do not want to offend you, your parents or Pearl but that was not cool. How old were you? I would have used that as a teachable moment and let you know of all the different kinds and color of people, maybe I am overanalyzing. But that is a perfect example of the need to recognize the color of one's skin. I really do not mean to offend you, hope I didn't.
    That the story bothered you, while it was a moment enjoyed and repeated by Pearl Bailey, is why I don't have issues with race, while you still do. It doesn't offend me what you think at all. You have every right to your opinion. It's a shame it made you uncomfortable.





    I find it hard to believe someone can find CrackBerry using Google,
    yet couldn't find their "heat seeking moisture missile" in a speedo once they get here.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-19-09 09:31 PM
  5. tennislvr8's Avatar
    That the story bothered you, while it was a moment enjoyed and repeated by Pearl Bailey, is why I don't have issues with race, while you still do. It doesn't offend me what you think at all. You have every right to your opinion. It's a shame it made you uncomfortable.

    I find it hard to believe someone can find CrackBerry using Google,
    yet couldn't find their "heat seeking moisture missile" in a speedo once they get here.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    It did not make me uncomfortable, I simply said it was not funny nor did I find it enjoyable. I actually found it offensive. I did not want to say that becuase you said it as a child. But let me give you this viewpoint. The fact that as you say, you do not see color. Yet when you came across a person of color, you wanted to know why she was dirty. In essence, she did not look like you and your family, therefore there was something wrong with her---she was dirty. To be ok, people have to look like you... Think about that before you respond. let it marinate.


    Do you have any idea what Pearl Bailey had to do to be famous during her time simply because of her race and gender? To ignore that is to ignore a part of Pearl. Now granted, I do not know her at all versus her being a family friend of yours, that however does not negate the struggles she had as a black female entertainer due to her race and gender.
    Last edited by envied; 10-19-09 at 09:50 PM.
    10-19-09 09:44 PM
  6. tennislvr8's Avatar
    To ignore race is to say everyone wants to be or looks like me. Regardless of your race that is wrong and simply not true.
    10-19-09 09:51 PM
  7. exelant's Avatar
    Children do understand when something is wrong with a situation. I remember bringing a couple black kids I met at the park home to my Grandparents to play. My Grandmother called me in and told me to tell them to go home. I may have only been 7, but I understood why she told me to send them home. I was ashamed of her and it is a memory that is still vivid to this day. What she didn't realize was that I was a military kid and even though it was 1962, I lived in an integrated neighborhood on base. I knew at a young age that we were the same. I didn't like racism then, and I hate it even more today.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by exelant; 10-19-09 at 10:27 PM.
    10-19-09 09:59 PM
  8. BergerKing's Avatar
    Well, there is some context and nuance here that is missing from Wulf's story, and maybe I can add that layer that causes the imbalance.

    Wulf hasn't been a child for a long time. Well over 3 decades, and the times were a lot different. Not an excuse, but rather, a fact.

    Based on the relation of the story, the age guess would probably be from say, 5 to 9 as a guesstimate.

    People weren't as 'enlightened' as they are today. There was a separation that has been blurred now, the lines and deliniations were different.

    People were just a few years into getting to know each other, the old standards had to be broken down. Biases were more prominent, and were practiced regardless how people felt about it.

    Judging yesterday by the standards of today is an excercise in futility. It was what it was, and no amount of wishes will make it go away. No amount of indignation will make those days change.

    Suffice it to say, it was a 'teachable moment'. He learned from it, and began the transformation into who he is today. The story teaches us something else.

    He or she that cannot laugh at themselves is probably not a lot of fun to be around.

    Based on estimate, Pearl had been long established as an entertainer. It sounds like she found the innocent comment to be funny. Children say the darnedest things, and ignorance is curable.

    I've listened to a brilliant gentleman by the name of Walter E. Williams. He is most entertaining, because for his innate intelligence, he doesn't take life as an affront to being black. He has a sense of humor about life, and his experiences, I dare say, have been similar to anyone else's, regardless of their ethnicity.

    Despite our individual experiences, we all have gotten to today. A sense of humor helps us cope when the lights go out. And in the darkness, how would we tell what we looked like? Would we even care?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-19-09 10:41 PM
  9. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I ignore race, because it makes no difference to me. Racists I will fight against to my last breath.

    Envied, you act as though I have been taught nothing of race in my life. This couldn't be further from the truth. Would it help were I to tell you of the persecution of my people? The family members who were lost throughout the ages? The tales of escape, one side after WWI, the other during WWII? The uncle, with a tattooed number on his wrist? The things I've been called, or heard people say because they did not know who I am? The things shouted at me, because I was so tan they thought me black? The fights and car chases because I dared to show a Hebrew symbol? It's all relevant to who I am today, but as Beast said, in a dark room, you would judge me solely on who I am. That's how I want to be judged, and how I judge others as well.
    10-20-09 04:50 AM
  10. tennislvr8's Avatar
    I love to laugh for certain. I simply did not find the story funny. I know he was a child when he said it that is why I asked how old he was. For as much as things have changed since then, lots of things have not changed. I am a teacher. I had a college student coming to my class twice a week for help. She was white. One of my students who was white asked was that my daughter. I thought that was very cute. In his mind anyone could be anyones parent. I just don't see the humor in saying someone of color is dirty and never will I. Wolf, I am not assuming anything about your experience. I know what Jewish people have endured I don't want to minimize that. My whole point is that not seeing race is problematic just as not seeing what Jewish have endured. I don't mean to judge people by but it defaintely needs to be acknowledged.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-20-09 09:11 AM
  11. tennislvr8's Avatar
    I love to laugh for certain. I simply did not find the story funny. I know he was a child when he said it that is why I asked how old he was. For as much as things have changed since then, lots of things have not changed. I am a teacher. I had a college student coming to my class twice a week for help. She was white. One of my students who was white asked was that my daughter. I thought that was very cute. In his mind anyone could be anyones parent. I just don't see the humor in saying someone of color is dirty and never will I. Wolf, I am not assuming anything about your experience. I know what Jewish people have endured I don't want to minimize that. My whole point is that not seeing race is problematic just as not seeing what Jewish have endured. I don't mean to judge people by but it defaintely needs to be acknowledged.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-20-09 09:20 AM
  12. thinkamp's Avatar
    Race = skin color
    But that doesn't define the person on the inside. I don't care what color you are, but if you have a good heart and are a good person then I'll like you reguardless if you are frickin purple.
    10-20-09 09:24 AM
  13. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I thought she was dirty, because I was 5 and didn't understand there were people of different colors.






    I find it hard to believe someone can find CrackBerry using Google,
    yet couldn't find their "heat seeking moisture missile" in a speedo once they get here.


    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-20-09 09:24 AM
  14. OhmEye's Avatar
    The race goes to the swift.
    10-17-10 09:25 AM
  15. LazyStarGazer's Avatar
    The race goes to the swift.
    The leftovers go to the insomniacs.
    10-17-10 10:50 AM
  16. middbrew's Avatar
    It looks like I've come to the party a little late. But I have a few comments.

    First, many post are somewhat on target regarding the definition of race which is the societal labels that distinguish people based on physical characteristics such as skin color, nose lip and ear size, hair texture among them. As has been mentioned this was original used because 10,000 years ago humans banded together as groups in order to survive that formed in-groups and out-groups. The easiest why to do this was based on surface differences. It later became a tool to make levels of people with some groups with more status than others.

    This differs from heritage (your genetic make up) and culture (social norms and customs). There is more individual difference within a racial group than there is between racial groups. So in essence, people do not differ that are racially different. However, because people have banded together originally based on race, and because different isolated groups formed different customs, racial characteristics have been attributed to the customs of a culture.

    To say that you are color blind is fine because there really is no difference between racial groups. However, to say all people should be seen as the same devalues the rich and important aspects of culture. Many times this statement comes from "whites" who do not have a strong culture heritage. Thus, we need to embrace cultural differences and focus less on the race of people.
    10-17-10 11:16 AM
  17. SCrid2000's Avatar
    Race is simply a way of defining the difference in physical characteristics between peoples from different areas. IMO, race is inconsequential; what really matters is the culture you identify with.
    10-17-10 08:07 PM
  18. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Race is certainly intertwined into culture, and culture is defined so diversely. There's the culture of your family and heritage, your neighborhood, religion and style of church, the region where you live, country, status, friends, the work you do, and no doubt much much more. All pieces of the puzzle that make us individuals.
    10-17-10 09:15 PM
  19. SCrid2000's Avatar
    Race may be intertwined with culture, but no culture should attempt to define itself by the races that make it up. Similarily, no race should be obligated to limit itself to a certain culture.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-17-10 09:19 PM
  20. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    No individual should try and bookmark themselves by any piece of the pie that makes them who they are. Some things have more influence than others, but we should all strive for complexity.
    10-17-10 09:25 PM
  21. middbrew's Avatar
    I am going to disagree with you BBW. I don't think we should strive for complexity based on race (if that's what you are saying). This is an etic viewpoint which only provides an ethnocentric approach. The culture that a person grows up in and defines an individual is just that, the person. If you dilute what a person is be promoting racial difference you are only buying into the social construct that does nothing but endorses class devision and encourages discrimination. This is why I say we need to let people embrace their culture and learn from it, not change it or change our own culture.
    10-17-10 10:23 PM
  22. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I am going to disagree with you BBW. I don't think we should strive for complexity based on race (if that's what you are saying). This is an etic viewpoint which only provides an ethnocentric approach. The culture that a person grows up in and defines an individual is just that, the person. If you dilute what a person is be promoting racial difference you are only buying into the social construct that does nothing but endorses class devision and encourages discrimination. This is why I say we need to let people embrace their culture and learn from it, not change it or change our own culture.
    You've misread my post, and couldn't have possibly read all my posts on this thread. We should strive for complexity period. Race should be one of the smallest portions of who we are, or we will never get past it. Be proud of what you've made of yourself inside, not what color G_d gave you outside.
    10-17-10 10:28 PM
  23. middbrew's Avatar
    You've misread my post, and couldn't have possibly read all my posts on this thread. We should strive for complexity period. Race should be one of the smallest portions of who we are, or we will never get past it. Be proud of what you've made of yourself inside, not what color G_d gave you outside.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding my friend. I did read all the posts, but guess what I thought you were saying was different than what you meant. You are absolutely right in regard to people needing to be proud of what they are made of and not focus on color.
    10-17-10 10:50 PM
  24. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    No problem bud. I knew we were on the same wave length.
    10-17-10 11:03 PM
  25. syb0rg's Avatar
    Okay i'm going to give this a go.

    Race to me is defined by the creed/background/History that one associates them selves with. It has little or nothing to do with a Skin Color.

    Here in America, WE are American. One people, one nationality. But certain people will group themselves together with certain cultures. For example I ride down State Route 127 in Cincinnati Ohio, driving my lowered 1994 with some Rise Against or KillSwitch Engage playing loud enough for everyone to hear. OR i see a kid driving a 1994 Impala with 20" wheels with some cRAP blaring for everyone to hear, and before you lay eyes on either one of us you have preconceived ideas that i am _____ type of person, and they are a _____ type of person. (and if you know who Killswitch Engage is you'll know why i used them. Or google em if you don't.

    Race in a nut shell is composed of three things
    1) self attitude
    2) self image
    3) who do i associate my self with.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-18-10 08:45 AM
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