[BergerKing]

Excellent.


I start with that, because of the discussion, rather than argument.

My ethnicity, well, that's about as complicated as Chinese Algebra.

Society would recognize me as a white man.

I'm a Heinz. 57 or more varieties. I was raised in the South, so people would hear my accent, and say possibly, redneck.

However, appearances are deceiving.

I will not break down and pigeonhole all of the branches from my family tree, for that would take too long.

My biological father was a black man from Alabama. I was not aware of this until I was 23 years of age. I had not known that , because physically, I have nothing indicative of that heritage. To his family, being illegitimate, I was not a member of the family, or race, as far as they were concerned.

The only family tie I have to that side is his name on a long, dark wall in Washington, D.C.

I grew up in a variety of neighborhoods. Black, Hispanic, Asian, you name it, I've lived with people of many backgrounds.

At one time, in my youth, I was actively recruited by members and associates of the KKK. It almost cost me my life.

See, I had to make a choice. I had friends in all of these places. I lived life in their sight, in their world. And there I was the one who was different. And I had a group of people trying to make me hate them.

I rejected their drivel. I stood against them, and I was called evil and wrong and twisted, because I had friends that didn't 'look' like me. Was I supposed to hate them because of something as trivial as, gasp, skin color?

They were telling me that people I saw as heroes were unworthy, that a person who wasn't white couldn't be something we were all supposed to be.

People like Dr. King, Ira Hayes,Dr. Jonas Salk. A long list of names.

I recognized that I was different from many of the people around me, but something else brought us together. We lived someplace where no matter what your background, persevere, and you could write your own future. You didn't have to be the 'same' to be successful.

I grew up poor. With families that eked out an existence just to get by. We watched out for each other, we took care of one another, and we learned that our wrappers contained similar hearts.
We all want to make our lives better. We take on a family to give us incentive to make a better life.

There is one race, but it is very diverse. That is the human race. We are all men, we are all women. We are separate from the animal kingdom, a man is a man, a dog is a dog. There are many breeds, but they are still a dog.

So we live, we have different customs, and look a little different, so what? Do we not love our chidren? Tend to our sick? Care for our parents?

Do you feel compassion for the person that has a bad time? Does it matter their skin tone?

Every human being, even a twin, is different from the next. Do twins always agree? I dare to say, no.

So, I recognize the human race. AG, Envied, Wulf , Mikes, and each of you is my sibling, diverse leaves on the tree of life. We are all chidren of our Creator. We have been born, have lived our lives, and will share the same fate.

And before our fall, we should put on the best show we can.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[BergerKing]

Politely butting in.....hey envied I figured this out earlier tonight because I was too lazy to get out of bed...go up top and click the pm link. Then when your inbox page comes up, scroll allllll the way to botton. You will see a link to send one.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Why scroll? Just hit the B button and dive to the bottom in one handy shot.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[LazyStarGazer]

What defines race?
A winner, a loser and a finish line.

Race = skin color.
4 flavors: Black, Brown, Red and White. Maybe six if you count the Indian sub-continent and the middle east.
However, those 6 brushes are too large and coarse to paint an accurate portrait of someone.

Skin color defines race because in our tribal past, we would be more likely to trust those who were more like us. For thousands of years, the world was a brutal place where survival was anything but certain. Like stuck with like trying to better their odds of survival.

Picture this. You are born 10,000 years ago at any location on the planet. Your immediate family or clan, you trust. You are surviving together.
People in surrounding villages, you probably have some contact with at predetermined times of the year such as festivals. They look like you, talk like you. Lots in common. Start venturing further from your village. People still look like you, but dialects become apparent. Go still further. People are speaking a foreign tongue you do not understand. This makes you nervous. They look like you, but you have less in common. Now go really far from home. Now they don't look like you, you have nothing in common with them. How secure do you feel?
( I stress visual similarities/differences because as a species, our primary method of obtaining information about the world around us is with our eyes).

The point I am trying to make is that the instinct to stick to our own kind, and distrust that which is different is ingrained. It helped us survive.

Fortunately, it can be countered with conscious thought.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[amazinglygraceless]

BK not only is that well stated but the fact that you did it on WAP
is truly stunning

[BergerKing]

Thanks, AG. That is my only access while I'm on the road. I can type faster on my Curve than a keyboard anyway.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[exelant]

Can't believe I'm still awake. All my favorite people are here. Some think being on line talking and meeting people on the internet isn't as real as meeting them in person. I disagree with them. Here I meet people and learn more about them than I would in person because we open up and share more, I believe, than when we would in a face to face conversation.

I was born in the fifties and grew up in a time when we as a country admitted the errors of the past and passed great legislation to bring the force of law to the race debate. Slowly all of society had to change along with the laws. I have a lot of hope for the future. Our children are growing up differently and think of race a different way than my parents did. I remember challenging my grandmother over her southern belief of separate but (un)equal. My kids view those days as ancient history.

My wife is a person of color, but she has a much tougher makeup than me. I hear comments that she just blows off. I get angry and begin to say something only to find her hand on my arm stopping me. I have learned a great deal from her just through observation. I do understand that one can truly never understand what someone goes through without spending some time in their shoes. So I do follow the golden rule and treat others the way I wish to be treated and try my best to not judge anyone - especially not judge them by the way they look.

With that, I must get to bed so I can get up and get my kids to school.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Archangel00195]

Can't believe I'm still awake. All my favorite people are here. Some think being on line talking and meeting people on the internet isn't as real as meeting them in person. I disagree with them. Here I meet people and learn more about them than I would in person because we open up and share more, I believe, than when we would in a face to face conversation.

I was born in the fifties and grew up in a time when we as a country admitted the errors of the past and passed great legislation to bring the force of law to the race debate. Slowly all of society had to change along with the laws. I have a lot of hope for the future. Our children are growing up differently and think of race a different way than my parents did. I remember challenging my grandmother over her southern belief of separate but (un)equal. My kids view those days as ancient history.

My wife is a person of color, but she has a much tougher makeup than me. I hear comments that she just blows off. I get angry and begin to say something only to find her hand on my arm stopping me. I have learned a great deal from her just through observation. I do understand that one can truly never understand what someone goes through without spending some time in their shoes. So I do follow the golden rule and treat others the way I wish to be treated and try my best to not judge anyone - especially not judge them by the way they look.

With that, I must get to bed so I can get up and get my kids to school.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

XD My girl said the same thing when I got with her. That's why I hate when people act like racism never happens. She used to think that it never did until she got the first hand dose.

anyway Kudos to you.

[BigBadWulf]

Paddy, you say it so well.

Envied, you confound me, but at least in part you agree.

BK, that my brother was the awesomeness I always expect out of you, and more.

ya.dude and pbflash, God bless you guys.

AG, I can understand why you did, and why you hadn't before. It is going rather splendidly, isn't it.

LSG, you go from smartypants, to just plain smart, and I know you'll be hating the alarm clock this morning.

Mike and Arch, it really is sad it still does exist, but God willing we eventually will, for almost all, move past it. It certainly is getting better.

And Mike excellent point about the web.

I hope this continues to grow, and that with it the participants do as well. While race makes up part of our character, through the blindness of the web, may the beauty of the individual shine.

[Mavis Fesselmeyer]

Why scroll? Just hit the B button and dive to the bottom in one handy shot.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Yarrr! How did I not know this until now?? Myself and my right thumb thank you.

Wow, does anyone ever sleep around here? Great thread though

[BigBadWulf]

No!

I find it hard to believe someone can find CrackBerry using Google,
yet couldn't find their "heat seeking moisture missile" in a speedo once they get here.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[syb0rg]

I will say this and I hope the thread does not go haywire when I say this. So far we have been lucky enough to have a good discussion going. I agree with what you have said but I will also say history is very important. For some, history defines who we are----whether or not we were there----it explains why Ed may react to something completely different than a German would. To have that understanding the person as a whole goes a long way----IMHO.

And my point is this, we've come along since our roots were planted. I'm not saying that we need to completely throw our family history to the side.We need to learn, as a nation not just Crackberrians, to embrace different cultures and backgrounds. I have a really good friend of mine named Nate who happens to be of Scottish decent and we really try to embrace the Scottish background. make a point to learn the history, the culture, the food, the drink, the music, just about everything about it. as he has done the German Culture. me thinks if everyone did that to culture other than their own, alot of problems would disappear.

I am no means implying that one forgets about their history or the history of past generations. but i am imply that we need to be more aware of our brethren's cultures background.

history does dictate a lot of what is said and what is done in ones life.

[BergerKing]

Yarrr! How did I not know this until now?? Myself and my right thumb thank you.

Wow, does anyone ever sleep around here? Great thread though

You're welcome. You can also speed scroll by holding the space bar, or t to go to the top.

I spend a lot of time with my lil ol' Curve, the shortcuts come in quite handy.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[tennislvr8]

Excellent.


I start with that, because of the discussion, rather than argument.

My ethnicity, well, that's about as complicated as Chinese Algebra.

Society would recognize me as a white man.

I'm a Heinz. 57 or more varieties. I was raised in the South, so people would hear my accent, and say possibly, redneck.

However, appearances are deceiving.

I will not break down and pigeonhole all of the branches from my family tree, for that would take too long.

My biological father was a black man from Alabama. I was not aware of this until I was 23 years of age. I had not known that , because physically, I have nothing indicative of that heritage. To his family, being illegitimate, I was not a member of the family, or race, as far as they were concerned.

The only family tie I have to that side is his name on a long, dark wall in Washington, D.C.

I grew up in a variety of neighborhoods. Black, Hispanic, Asian, you name it, I've lived with people of many backgrounds.

At one time, in my youth, I was actively recruited by members and associates of the KKK. It almost cost me my life.

See, I had to make a choice. I had friends in all of these places. I lived life in their sight, in their world. And there I was the one who was different. And I had a group of people trying to make me hate them.

I rejected their drivel. I stood against them, and I was called evil and wrong and twisted, because I had friends that didn't 'look' like me. Was I supposed to hate them because of something as trivial as, gasp, skin color?

They were telling me that people I saw as heroes were unworthy, that a person who wasn't white couldn't be something we were all supposed to be.

People like Dr. King, Ira Hayes,Dr. Jonas Salk. A long list of names.

I recognized that I was different from many of the people around me, but something else brought us together. We lived someplace where no matter what your background, persevere, and you could write your own future. You didn't have to be the 'same' to be successful.

I grew up poor. With families that eked out an existence just to get by. We watched out for each other, we took care of one another, and we learned that our wrappers contained similar hearts.
We all want to make our lives better. We take on a family to give us incentive to make a better life.

There is one race, but it is very diverse. That is the human race. We are all men, we are all women. We are separate from the animal kingdom, a man is a man, a dog is a dog. There are many breeds, but they are still a dog.

So we live, we have different customs, and look a little different, so what? Do we not love our chidren? Tend to our sick? Care for our parents?

Do you feel compassion for the person that has a bad time? Does it matter their skin tone?

Every human being, even a twin, is different from the next. Do twins always agree? I dare to say, no.

So, I recognize the human race. AG, Envied, Wulf , Mikes, and each of you is my sibling, diverse leaves on the tree of life. We are all chidren of our Creator. We have been born, have lived our lives, and will share the same fate.

And before our fall, we should put on the best show we can.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Wow---what an experience/life. I too am amazed you typed that on your berry---I could not have done that!

[tennislvr8]

Paddy, you say it so well.

Envied, you confound me, but at least in part you agree.

BK, that my brother was the awesomeness I always expect out of you, and more.

ya.dude and pbflash, God bless you guys.

AG, I can understand why you did, and why you hadn't before. It is going rather splendidly, isn't it.

LSG, you go from smartypants, to just plain smart, and I know you'll be hating the alarm clock this morning.

Mike and Arch, it really is sad it still does exist, but God willing we eventually will, for almost all, move past it. It certainly is getting better.

And Mike excellent point about the web.

I hope this continues to grow, and that with it the participants do as well. While race makes up part of our character, through the blindness of the web, may the beauty of the individual shine.

Why/How do I confound you?

[HandsomePrince]

I'm just a frog.

[username0022]

I'm just a person who enjoys poking fun at everyone, regardless of race. It's better to embrace the differences than to run away from them.

[BigBadWulf]

I agree with you and Dr. King. One should not be judged by the color of their skin. Muy argument is that the color of their skin is part of who they are and should not be ignored.

Why/How do I confound you?

Those two views are in-congruent. You either want to be judged as an individual, or have people look at the color of your skin, and make assumptions based on that. You cannot have it both ways in my view. I would never take into account someone's skin color. If we are to ever leave the bounds of race behind, we have to ignore it.

[tennislvr8]

Those two views are in-congruent. You either want to be judged as an individual, or have people look at the color of your skin, and make assumptions based on that. You cannot have it both ways in my view. I would never take into account someone's skin color. If we are to ever leave the bounds of race behind, we have to ignore it.

Ok let me try to explain. By judging I mean-----if a person of color gets a job at an affirmative action company---do not assume (judge them) it is becuase of the color of their skin. However that same person of color brings with them a history, based on their race, and that should be acknowledged. does that help?

[tennislvr8]

Those two views are in-congruent. You either want to be judged as an individual, or have people look at the color of your skin, and make assumptions based on that. You cannot have it both ways in my view. I would never take into account someone's skin color. If we are to ever leave the bounds of race behind, we have to ignore it.

It is my argument that we cannot ignore it, we need to recognize it, embrace it, be and talk about it----then and only then will race no longer be an issue.

[BigBadWulf]

Ok let me try to explain. By judging I mean-----if a person of color gets a job at an affirmative action company---do not assume (judge them) it is becuase of the color of their skin. However that same person of color brings with them a history, based on their race, and that should be acknowledged. does that help?

Completely disagree with the entire concept of affirmative action.

It is my argument that we cannot ignore it, we need to recognize it, embrace it, be and talk about it----then and only then will race no longer be an issue.

Still don't follow this. Only by paying attention to one's race, will we get to the point where we don't?

[tennislvr8]

Completely disagree with the entire concept of affirmative action.








Still don't follow this. Only by paying attention to one's race, will we get to the point where we don't?

I am not saying I agree or disagree with affirmative action but I understand the need for it - all things are NOT equal. I used it as an example.

The only way race will stop being the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about and does not matter, we need to have open honest conversation about it.

[paddygirl16]

Good Evening. Just wanted to stop by to tell you all I love you, no matter what color you are.

[BigBadWulf]

envied, that is an excellent and valid point. But G_d willing we will move past this, and be able to simply ignore it as I do, on a whole some day. That takes courage on both sides, to put away the past.

I find it hard to believe someone can find CrackBerry using Google,
yet couldn't find their "heat seeking moisture missile" in a speedo once they get here.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[amazinglygraceless]

Wulf, I think you are missing envieds' point. The way I interpret it
is that regardless of our better intentions or nature, the person,
skin tone and all is what you see first.

Anyone who denies the fact that they do is pretty much lying.

Does it shape what we think of the person? Only to the shallow,
racist or insecure.

For the rest of us it adds nuance, character and dare I say color to the person.

[Archangel00195]

envied, that is an excellent and valid point. But G_d willing we will move past this, and be able to simply ignore it as I do, on a whole some day. That takes courage on both sides, to put away the past.

I find it hard to believe someone can find CrackBerry using Google,
yet couldn't find their "heat seeking moisture missile" in a speedo once they get here.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

To just ignore it is a problem. We tried that before with other topics. Then when it jumps up and bites us we look shocked. I'd post more but I'm tired.