[BigBadWulf]

What defines race to you? I�ve had a few discussions lately with friends, and it seems race is defined in many ways. This is not a thread to judge any race, but rather to explore it�s personal meaning to each participant. This should be nothing but a celebration of the rainbow that is, the human race.

While most would consider me white, as a Jew, I think of my race as Hebrew. Of course there are many differing opinions on this. True, it is a religion, and anyone can convert. Also true, all races on earth have Jews among them. I look at the Tower of Babel, and think that it can explain a lot. If you believe yourself a direct descendant of Abram, no matter what your skin tone, or hair color, to me you are of the Hebrew race, as well as the race you appear from to others. Many Jews fear being defined as a race, and the �80 Supreme Court decision to distinguish them as such dismayed them. Through history, there is good reason for this fear, but I will not allow fear to guide my life. I don�t believe myself superior or inferior to anyone else, but I am a Hebrew, and will claim that to my dying day.

[Archangel00195]

race is just skin color to me. culture wide customs can be factored in. like jewish
holidays and such.
oh! tounge also.

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[tennislvr8]

race describes a group of people with common hereditary - yeah does not mean a whole lot.

It usually describes skin color.

I would not say Hebrew was your race but your religion, but to each his own who am I to judge.

[BigBadWulf]

Guys, this isn't about my definition. This thread is for everyone to express their own views of what defines race.

[Archangel00195]

race describes a group of people with common hereditary - yeah does not mean a whole lot.

It usually describes skin color.

I would not say Hebrew was your race but your religion, but to each his own who am I to judge.

Te issue with jewish people is that you aren't to marry outside the faith. So in a way it's like it's own race. I mean in reality you can't convert either...you have to be born into it.

[tennislvr8]

Te issue with jewish people is that you aren't to marry outside the faith. So in a way it's like it's own race. I mean in reality you can't convert either...you have to be born into it.

I guess I agree with some of this. I am not Jewish so I will not begin to speak on their faith. I will say this is has a strong value system and way of life based on religious beliefs, that in and of itself does not make it a race.

[paddygirl16]

There is a fine line between race and heritage. I am Irish. Now there are Irish Jews, there are Irish blacks. But if one was to question the race of these folks, it would be Jewish, or Black, not Irish. If you asked these fine folks were they reside they would say Ireland. But as for Irish whites, we are Irish, both in heritage and race. So you can see the difference and it is a tad confusing.

The world is so diverse now. Many different people live in different Countries. I think it is not as important (at least to me), what someones race is. Everyone has a different story to tell.

As for the Jewish, I consider that more of a Religion than a race.

Regardless we are on this one Earth for a reason. Be proud of were you come from, what you believe in, and how you treat others.

[Mavis Fesselmeyer]

I grew up in an area with little racial diversity (smallish Iowa city), however I really haven't given much thought to what 'defines' a race. To me its ethnicity, maybe that's right, maybe its wrong. I am an italian american catholic who considers herself white. Perhaps why I can not speak in educated way on this subject is because I just love people in general regardless of color, race, religion, etc.

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[Mavis Fesselmeyer]

Te issue with jewish people is that you aren't to marry outside the faith. So in a way it's like it's own race. I mean in reality you can't convert either...you have to be born into it.

Really???? I never knew this about the marrying thing. I'm a very curious person who loves learning stuff like this and it makes me have some questions, but won't hijack thread by doing so. Anyone who wants to answer a couple questions I have, just PM me. Or I could just Gooooogle it I suppose
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[BigBadWulf]

Awe Mavis, this isn't a hijacking, it's a discussion. I'll answer for what I know as best I can. First off, I'm with you, I've never thought about race as the thing that defines a person, or causes me to have a desire to relate to them or not. For that matter, sexual orientation as well.

Yes, Jewdaism teaches us to marry within our religion. It's true also of many other religions. But you can convert to Jewdaism, and I have a cousin who did. He's one of the most faithful Jews I know, and I respect him tremendously for it.

What other questions do you have? We can cover them here, or my widdle thread about nothing.

I find it hard to believe someone can find CrackBerry using Google,
yet couldn't find their "heat seeking moisture missile" in a speedo once they get here.

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[exelant]

The definition of race changes and evolves, but all of us identify with a race. In many places people use race to distinguish between each other. My heritage is 100% Anglo English. Before my family branch left England in the 1600s there wasn't much diversity there, but distinctions were made by class. Many of those of "higher" birth thought they were superior to the lower classes. I think it is human nature to distinguish between each other - right or wrong, but mostly with bad results. Look at the Tutsi and Hutu in Rwanda. Tribal differences, but nothing else, sparked horrible violence and bloodshed.

Things are getting better in America, but we have a long way to go yet. The progress I see is that the distinctions in society along racial lines are beginning to blur. In the mid 1800s the Clan not only hated African-Americans but Catholics and Jews, but they did save their worst savagery for black Americans. These low lifes have been chased back under the rocks where their slimy views belong.

The less tolerant we are to those who try to use the differences between us as a way to put someone else down, the better we all will be. Maybe it is some fantasy to believe we are moving toward an America where we truly are one people, but it is a fantasy I choose to believe. I look to the day where we celebrate our differences a things that contribute to a better society.

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[Mavis Fesselmeyer]

Actually, and I've always wondered if its because of where I grew up, I have a fascination with those who are different from me in race, etc. I hope this doesn't sound wrong, but I tend to be attracted to those who intrigue me to ask questions and learn. Like different races, or someone who grew up in a different culture or who can speak another language. Or who are uber smart. I find what makes someone different is what makes them hot. But I'm drifting, so since I'm asking publicly I will limit to just a couple of questions:

When one is expected to marry within their own religion, how does one go about meeting people? I would think out in public settings it would be hard to know aside from straight out saying "hi my name is joe and I'm jeweish, are you?" Unlike someone who is expected to marry their own nationality, where its an easier process of elimination visually. Are there like "Jewish mixers" or do you tend to meet potential mates via family, church, etc?

Also, say as a young man, knowing what is expected, how does that affect casual dating? Are you up front in beginning or do you just not date outside your religion?

You already answered the one....so if a jewish person were to fall smitten with say a methodist, that other person can convert.

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[exelant]

I think people often do the opposite Mavis, and seek out people like themselves. My Son is a High School sophomore who dyes his hair black and wears clothes from Hot Topic. This year he has his first real girlfriend. He found a girl just like him, she dyes her hair and wears clothes from Hot Topic. I know that describes a lot of high schoolers, but still he is drawn to someone like himself. I think you're unique Mavis. Most people I know from small towns tend to distrust those different. My ex was from a town of 150 out in the country and she was very distrustful of minorities. I think mostly because she had no experience with them.

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[BigBadWulf]

People should find interest in those things they aren't familiar with. That's what makes us grow. The meeting of fellow Jews, there are the Temples, Jewish Community Centers, and for the more devout, marriage is still prearranged today. I have an Uncle who was raised in Israel, and now lives here in Miami. His marriage was prearranged. I've never been one to worry about religion, or race when dating though. My beliefs are a bit unique, even to most Jews, and I've never expected anyone to agree with them, nor do I think they are necessary for others in the eyes of G_d. They are what I feel He calls me to do, and I try my best. If you have a question you're not comfortable asking in the forum Mavis, by all means, shoot me a PM. You know I'm not shy.

[syb0rg]

Well you have NASCAR Races, you have LeMans Races, you have Moto GP Races, and you have F1 Races . . . . Oh wrong type of a race... ... ...To me we are all members of the human race. We were all created equally, we are born with the chances to succeed in life, we all born with challenges, we were all born with the same tools to wonder down the board of the game we call life. I am German by background, I am a American by birth, does that mean I am any better than anyone else!? Nope it mean my background might be a little different than say that of Ed's but we are members of the same human race. And how can one be judged by their background? How can one be judged by their past that they didn't have a part of? I mean if Ed, who is of Jewish decent, and I, who is of German decent, can get along why can we all see past the tone of ones skin and learn to love the other person, you might even learn something new that you didn't know before.

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[tennislvr8]

Actually, and I've always wondered if its because of where I grew up, I have a fascination with those who are different from me in race, etc. I hope this doesn't sound wrong, but I tend to be attracted to those who intrigue me to ask questions and learn. Like different races, or someone who grew up in a different culture or who can speak another language. Or who are uber smart. I find what makes someone different is what makes them hot. But I'm drifting, so since I'm asking publicly I will limit to just a couple of questions:

When one is expected to marry within their own religion, how does one go about meeting people? I would think out in public settings it would be hard to know aside from straight out saying "hi my name is joe and I'm jeweish, are you?" Unlike someone who is expected to marry their own nationality, where its an easier process of elimination visually. Are there like "Jewish mixers" or do you tend to meet potential mates via family, church, etc?

Also, say as a young man, knowing what is expected, how does that affect casual dating? Are you up front in beginning or do you just not date outside your religion?

You already answered the one....so if a jewish person were to fall smitten with say a methodist, that other person can convert.

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Mavis, I do not think there is anything wrong with healthy curiosity like yours. The only way to get past race it to have open and honest dialogue about the differences. Feel free to pm me anytime---I am black (not african american) plain ole black. I have lived in NYC---99.9% black and a small town in western PA (99.9% white).
can't answer your Jewish questions---I have no idea!

[tennislvr8]

I think people often do the opposite Mavis, and seek out people like themselves. My Son is a High School sophomore who dyes his hair black and wears clothes from Hot Topic. This year he has his first real girlfriend. He found a girl just like him, she dyes her hair and wears clothes from Hot Topic. I know that describes a lot of high schoolers, but still he is drawn to someone like himself. I think you're unique Mavis. Most people I know from small towns tend to distrust those different. My ex was from a town of 150 out in the country and she was very distrustful of minorities. I think mostly because she had no experience with them.

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it is not just HS kids, it is adults too---it is about comfort (whatever the it happens to be).

[paddygirl16]

I feel sort of the same way Mavis does. I prefer to be around people unlike me. It makes things interesting. I am totally open to learn more about heritage and culture of others. I am totally colored blind.

[tennislvr8]

Well you have NASCAR Races, you have LeMans Races, you have Moto GP Races, and you have F1 Races . . . . Oh wrong type of a race... ... ...To me we are all members of the human race. We were all created equally, we are born with the chances to succeed in life, we all born with challenges, we were all born with the same tools to wonder down the board of the game we call life. I am German by background, I am a American by birth, does that mean I am any better than anyone else!? Nope it mean my background might be a little different than say that of Ed's but we are members of the same human race. And how can one be judged by their background? How can one be judged by their past that they didn't have a part of? I mean if Ed, who is of Jewish decent, and I, who is of German decent, can get along why can we all see past the tone of ones skin and learn to love the other person, you might even learn something new that you didn't know before.

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I will say this and I hope the thread does not go haywire when I say this. So far we have been lucky enough to have a good discussion going. I agree with what you have said but I will also say history is very important. For some, history defines who we are----whether or not we were there----it explains why Ed may react to something completely different than a German would. To have that understanding the person as a whole goes a long way----IMHO.

[tennislvr8]

I feel sort of the same way Mavis does. I prefer to be around people unlike me. It makes things interesting. I am totally open to learn more about heritage and culture of others. I am totally colored blind.

Can I challenge you on "I am totally colored blind" in a respectful, open and honest way? We can do it via PM---I do not want this thread to go crazy!

[paddygirl16]

Can I challenge you on "I am totally colored blind" in a respectful, open and honest way? We can do it via PM---I do not want this thread to go crazy!

Absolutely. I have no problem with you discussing here. But if you feel more comfortable with PM, by all means, go ahead.

[tennislvr8]

Absolutely. I have no problem with you discussing here. But if you feel more comfortable with PM, by all means, go ahead.

No I am cool---it is the others I am worried about.

Ok here goes....

First, I do not beleive there is anything wrong with seeing race. I think there is something wrong with treating people differently because of it.

I would venture to say for most people, the color of their skin (race) is an important part of who they are = I find this holds true mostly for people of color and Jewish people (see original post) Whether right or wrong, it is the world in which we live. So to ignore that, you are ignoring an important part of who they are. Thoughts????

[BigBadWulf]

Can I challenge you on "I am totally colored blind" in a respectful, open and honest way? We can do it via PM---I do not want this thread to go crazy!

You want to challenge someones integrity, I suggest you do it openly, or not at all.

[paddygirl16]

No I am cool---it is the others I am worried about.

Ok here goes....

First, I do not beleive there is anything wrong with seeing race. I think there is something wrong with treating people differently because of it.

I would venture to say for most people, the color of their skin (race) is an important part of who they are = I find this holds true mostly for people of color and Jewish people (see original post) Whether right or wrong, it is the world in which we live. So to ignore that, you are ignoring an important part of who they are. Thoughts????

Dont get me wrong, I see race, and I would see anything else on a person (I am not blind). But I guess my point I don't prejudge anyone by the way they look. Wether it be color, warts on the tip of their nose, or any other feature that makes them different from me. I think people are who they are by the way they are brought up and how they make an impact on this world we live in, not by any other feature, including color.

[Archangel00195]

No I am cool---it is the others I am worried about.

Ok here goes....

First, I do not beleive there is anything wrong with seeing race. I think there is something wrong with treating people differently because of it.

I would venture to say for most people, the color of their skin (race) is an important part of who they are = I find this holds true mostly for people of color and Jewish people (see original post) Whether right or wrong, it is the world in which we live. So to ignore that, you are ignoring an important part of who they are. Thoughts????

Agreed. To say you don't see color at all is worst than to notice it in my opinion. Like you said to ignore it is to ignore a part of them. I don't think that part is anything we as humans understand...

that's me 2cents