1. lc474's Avatar
    long time reader of this forum and i have to just add my opinion here. First I am located in Ottawa and have a few friends who work for RIM, and my own business does business with RIM. I am absolutely amazed with all the negative press this company is getting lately, and the panic that is setting in. I had a long talk with some people in management and for a ship that's is supposedly sinking they don't seem to worried about the company, let alone their jobs. I asked in particular about the torch 2, as I am waiting to buy one, and although they could not comment on much, my questions were met with a big 2 thumbs up and a large smile.
    We talked about what's coming up and they seem very upbeat about the future line of products, especially QNX. People working at RIM are amazed they are even being compared to Nortel and other companies not doing so well. Some of the reasons they are amazed is they asked me how analysts can ignore their profit last quarter, how they are not even projecting a loss, but a profit for 2011, yet they are considered to be dead??? It was also pointed out that they are growing, not shrinking by any means. They generally seemed very confident and upbeat about the future.
    I talked to another acquaintance about the situation, he explained it like and compared it to the big 3 auto companies:
    -Someone had to invent the marketplace.
    -Consumers are loyal, to a degree.
    -Competition was going to happen, whether it was apple, google, or anyone else.
    -after driving a ford for years, it's not unexpected that you may want to drive a chevy one day.
    -companies go through ups and downs, no matter what the company may be.

    Whether thats a fair comparison, I do not know...
    Personally, I think RIM needed a wake up call and as a consumer is going to benefit in the long run.
    06-20-11 06:53 PM
  2. UrbanGlowCam's Avatar
    Whether thats a fair comparison, I do not know...
    Personally, I think RIM needed a wake up call and as a consumer is going to benefit in the long run.
    I think we will
    06-20-11 06:57 PM
  3. reeneebob's Avatar
    I hope this is the kick in the pants they needed.

    I want RIM to succeed. I don't want to see Canucks out of work...I want the Canadian companies to succeed...
    06-20-11 07:05 PM
  4. CGI's Avatar
    People working at RIM are amazed they are even being compared to Nortel and other companies not doing so well. Some of the reasons they are amazed is they asked me how analysts can ignore their profit last quarter, how they are not even projecting a loss, but a profit for 2011, yet they are considered to be dead??? It was also pointed out that they are growing, not shrinking by any means. They generally seemed very confident and upbeat about the future.
    It's great they are confident. But, if they ignore what's going on around them they are doing exactly what they did to get into this position.
    anon1727506 likes this.
    06-20-11 07:38 PM
  5. the_sleuth's Avatar
    We talked about what's coming up and they seem very upbeat about the future line of products, especially QNX. People working at RIM are amazed they are even being compared to Nortel and other companies not doing so well. Some of the reasons they are amazed is they asked me how analysts can ignore their profit last quarter, how they are not even projecting a loss, but a profit for 2011, yet they are considered to be dead??? It was also pointed out that they are growing, not shrinking by any means. .

    As I wait for my QNX phone upgrade.........

    It's not the current profits everyone is worried about but the direction of the current trends in NA market share and revenue. Also Co-CEOs have come across as completely aloof, warning on earnings and 30 days later, completely missing their forecasts. Balsillie is a Harvard grad, has he not read Christensen's "Innovator's Dilemma"? These Co-CEOs are making the same mistakes: listening only to CIOs and not enough to consumers' needs.

    Just look at the long time users of this forum going to iPhone and Android phones. RIM has abused their loyalty with product delays and not innovating fast enough. RIM went from over 50% market share in 2009 to 11% in the current quarter in NA market. Rather than buying back shares last year. RIM should have setup a pool (maybe $1 billion) for app development. Money talks, developers listen. Just ask Microsoft, it's spending for WP7 apps.
    reeneebob likes this.
    06-20-11 08:42 PM
  6. jebulls's Avatar
    I wish RIM would let us know what is going on for the apps side of things. I mean will QNX start competing with apple and android with apps?
    06-20-11 09:18 PM
  7. mmcpher's Avatar
    I've posted on other threads here that although this seems to be an extreme minority position, I took some comfort in the most recent earnings call, that while frankly acknowledging past misjudgments and challenges immediately ahead, the CEO's (and hopefully the company as a whole) were not running around with the hair on fire, changing their clothes styles to bell-bottoms and open-toed sandals, and undergoing forced personality reorganization on the fly. These are people with a sense of history and proportionality. Of course there are business horror stories of giants being slain in their tracks, but in all this useless hysteria you might think that past success only foretold doom.

    RIM made the decision some time ago to rouse itself from its stolid enterprise comfort zone and to compete in the consumer and high-end media market, rather than to simply consolidate and hunker down in a niche. Given the resources arrayed against it, pointed even at its strongholds, this was doubtless a wise move even though it necessarily meant there would be bumps ahead. If the current RIM leadership hadn't been essentially the same team that had grown the company so impressively over the previous decade, the idea that the guys that brought you his far are, by definition, not the guys to move into the future might hold more water for me. But these are the guys who road out the Storms in the immediate past and have succeeded in managing a profitable, growing company that is positioned for the new competitive environment. I like people who don't rattle and keep their eyes open for the main chance, rather than tearing around with their fingers in the air and toes in the water, looking for the next change in the weather as if it were the chimes of doom.

    Maybe RIM needs to outsource its PR approach and start laying the seeds of its remarkable, unexpected comeback, even if that happens according to a rational plan, diligently executed.
    06-20-11 10:51 PM
  8. SmakBerry's Avatar
    I don't see RIM like Nortel and it's too bad they are even comparing. My family and I have worked for Nortel for MANY years, we watched what happened there which led to our lay offs. RIM is not operating in the same way the Nortel did and are actually investing time and money into R&D which is huge.
    I'd like to see RIM succeed not only because I love their products, but also because they are Canadian and I'd hate to see all those people lose their jobs.
    Good on RIM for keeping up on the R&D and releasing new products.
    06-20-11 11:08 PM
  9. BBOttawa's Avatar
    Yeah, the mood in the company (heard from a friend who works there) is not bad, they know they are in a rough patch but see the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a train. Also can confirm that I heard that the Torch 2 is better than we have seen so far...not 100% on that but a hardware redesign to make it thinner may have occurred and not leaked yet...again not sure on that.

    They admit they have some fat to cut, and if they cut wisely it will better the company, it grew very fast, and gobbled up like 15 companies the last year or two. There is definitely room to cut without damaging the core products.
    06-21-11 12:08 AM
  10. BluCheze's Avatar
    I really want rim to do well, but after listening to the call last week i can only wonder why the CEOs were thinking. The tendency for consumers to want the most powerful and fastest has been since late 2009 and all of 2010 and i cant believe it took so long for them to realize this. Hopefully they release the 9900 ASAP!
    06-21-11 12:34 AM
  11. qbnkelt's Avatar
    I've posted on other threads here that although this seems to be an extreme minority position, I took some comfort in the most recent earnings call, that while frankly acknowledging past misjudgments and challenges immediately ahead, the CEO's (and hopefully the company as a whole) were not running around with the hair on fire, changing their clothes styles to bell-bottoms and open-toed sandals, and undergoing forced personality reorganization on the fly. These are people with a sense of history and proportionality. Of course there are business horror stories of giants being slain in their tracks, but in all this useless hysteria you might think that past success only foretold doom.

    RIM made the decision some time ago to rouse itself from its stolid enterprise comfort zone and to compete in the consumer and high-end media market, rather than to simply consolidate and hunker down in a niche. Given the resources arrayed against it, pointed even at its strongholds, this was doubtless a wise move even though it necessarily meant there would be bumps ahead. If the current RIM leadership hadn't been essentially the same team that had grown the company so impressively over the previous decade, the idea that the guys that brought you his far are, by definition, not the guys to move into the future might hold more water for me. But these are the guys who road out the Storms in the immediate past and have succeeded in managing a profitable, growing company that is positioned for the new competitive environment. I like people who don't rattle and keep their eyes open for the main chance, rather than tearing around with their fingers in the air and toes in the water, looking for the next change in the weather as if it were the chimes of doom.

    Maybe RIM needs to outsource its PR approach and start laying the seeds of its remarkable, unexpected comeback, even if that happens according to a rational plan, diligently executed.
    You, sir/m'am, have very quickly become someone whose posts I look for in order to learn something. Love your sanity and your measured, thoughtful assessments.
    CommanderElvis likes this.
    06-21-11 02:29 AM
  12. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    that attitide toward the issue does not make me feel confident that RIM knows what it needs to do. First, they are worried more about quarterly and yearly profits rather than anything in regards to direct answers to Apple and Android. 2nd, they seem to respond with a sort of cocky arrogant attitude which kind of reminds me of the captian of a ship saying "dont worry, all is fine" after they hit a huge iceburg and everyone wonders why the boat is tilted toward the water
    Last edited by RicanMedic78; 06-21-11 at 03:00 AM.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    06-21-11 02:44 AM
  13. qbnkelt's Avatar
    That's not my understanding of the events. They did in fact note that the primary reason for the summer release of the 9900/9930 was as a direct response to Apple and Android devices. They did acknowedge that they misread the consumer market in terms of specs.
    The financial concerns and actions taken are conmesurate with the company's current status. The market, in my opinion (which matters not one iota) has severely overreacted.
    That said, that *can* be a company's death knell.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    kevinnugent likes this.
    06-21-11 03:04 AM
  14. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Where do they think the staff redundancies are going to be coming from?
    06-21-11 03:13 AM
  15. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I'm happy as a comsumer that rim is succeeding and don't care what negativity (smearing/slander) other motherfsckers throw at the company. They won't die out, they won't go bankrupt and BIS/BES aren't dying either.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-21-11 05:51 AM
  16. dancingbear's Avatar
    agree with the 'captain of the ship' comment.
    frankly RIM has blinders on...this whole situation reminds me of parents asking their child what happened,and the child responding 'it was my first time" doing whatever and the parents going , oh ok then.
    wake up RIM, canada needs you, and simply put you need better products. not a 'torch 2" . i mean why even keep the name, when the first one was panned by critics? that in itself to me says,...'what are you thinking?"

    as for the bis/bes...stuff, the 'average' person does not even know what that means. rim needs way more.

    can anyone think of any product rim has released in the last two years that got great reviews across the board? if you answer no, then even if you have $$$in R and D, it is no being spent wisely.
    06-21-11 07:02 AM
  17. bdammizio's Avatar
    the Playbook is awesome!!!! and only getting better each month!!! ... the new smartphones will be awesome too!! ...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-21-11 07:52 AM
  18. diapers's Avatar
    You are talking to software managers, but their problem is mainly being so far behind on the hardware. In a sense it's the opposite of nokia who had their software so far behind everyone but great hardware. RIM needs better hardware, not just small incremental clones of the same outdated phones they have been putting out for the last 3 years
    06-21-11 08:01 AM
  19. ekafara's Avatar
    I've posted on other threads here that although this seems to be an extreme minority position, I took some comfort in the most recent earnings call, that while frankly acknowledging past misjudgments and challenges immediately ahead, the CEO's (and hopefully the company as a whole) were not running around with the hair on fire, changing their clothes styles to bell-bottoms and open-toed sandals, and undergoing forced personality reorganization on the fly. These are people with a sense of history and proportionality. Of course there are business horror stories of giants being slain in their tracks, but in all this useless hysteria you might think that past success only foretold doom.

    RIM made the decision some time ago to rouse itself from its stolid enterprise comfort zone and to compete in the consumer and high-end media market, rather than to simply consolidate and hunker down in a niche. Given the resources arrayed against it, pointed even at its strongholds, this was doubtless a wise move even though it necessarily meant there would be bumps ahead. If the current RIM leadership hadn't been essentially the same team that had grown the company so impressively over the previous decade, the idea that the guys that brought you his far are, by definition, not the guys to move into the future might hold more water for me. But these are the guys who road out the Storms in the immediate past and have succeeded in managing a profitable, growing company that is positioned for the new competitive environment. I like people who don't rattle and keep their eyes open for the main chance, rather than tearing around with their fingers in the air and toes in the water, looking for the next change in the weather as if it were the chimes of doom.

    Maybe RIM needs to outsource its PR approach and start laying the seeds of its remarkable, unexpected comeback, even if that happens according to a rational plan, diligently executed.
    "But these are the guys who road out the Storms"

    Well played my friend! : )

    I also like the rest of your post.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-21-11 08:05 AM
  20. Shlooky's Avatar
    Were those managers amongst the 200 that got laid off?
    06-21-11 09:33 AM
  21. CommanderElvis's Avatar
    that attitide toward the issue does not make me feel confident that RIM knows what it needs to do. First, they are worried more about quarterly and yearly profits rather than anything in regards to direct answers to Apple and Android. 2nd, they seem to respond with a sort of cocky arrogant attitude which kind of reminds me of the captian of a ship saying "dont worry, all is fine" after they hit a huge iceburg and everyone wonders why the boat is tilted toward the water
    IMHO, the best resopnse is to build on their strenghts, and move out into new fields. As a former Storm user I remember the criticism RIM faced in bringing it out, that they were trying too hard to emulate the competition, and they rushed it out too soon, further damaging the image.

    I have tried both Andriod and WP7, and while both have their strenghts, I am back to BB because of what it does well.
    06-23-11 02:37 PM
  22. RicanMedic78's Avatar
    keep it nostalgic! Keep it clean! A Blackberry with a keyboard. a Curve type, a Bold type, and a Pearl type! All with touch screens for easier navigation. Let people choose a Blackberry if they want a superior messaging device with a real keyboard! The software would be more unified, the focus will be much more direct, and the updates in software and hardware will have a much clearer line of progression.

    If they target that market, I'm willing to bet a lot of full touch users (including me) will give a keyboard blackberry another go around.... it def appeals!

    RIM's biggest mistake is that they watered down their line and they watered down their focus and tried to walk into the other guys house...
    07-10-11 04:07 AM
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