04-18-09 11:59 PM
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  1. Storm7's Avatar
    Bearkat and any other B O supporter that would like to reply, let me ask you a question. What is the one thing that has impressed you most since the socialist has been in office?
    04-16-09 09:30 AM
  2. bearkat38's Avatar
    Get off the privileged crap, I wasn't...Just because you're not born into money doesn't prevent one from acquiring money. Why do liberals like yourself always think that people can't provide and prosper for themselves without government intervention? The government will only give you enough to survive but not thrive. BTW, I'm far from me me me as is typical of most conservatives. Conservatives are by far more charitable than liberals. Liberals are only charitable with other people's money, not their own.
    I'm probably not talking about you, unless your income is truly off the charts! I wasn't born wealthy either and I make a pretty good living, but using your argument if everyone worked their hardest and did everything that they're supposed to then we would have a country full of CEO's. Obviously, that isn't the case. There a millions of people out there that do their absolute best, and they still struggle. Everyone isn't blessed with the same abilities. Everyone can't be on the board of directors at McDonanlds, someone has to "flip the burgers", and to look down on these people and say that they just aren't trying hard enough isn't fair.
    04-16-09 09:44 AM
  3. Swoopster's Avatar
    The rich get richer because they worked their *** off for everything that they have gotten. The poor get NOTHING because they do NOTHING! People cannot expect the rich to share...plus doesn't the poor get money from OUR taxes???
    Not all people who are rich; and who keep getting richer...are rich because they work their *** off for everything that they have gotten. I'm not talking about exceptions; such as those that inherit 'old money'; I'm referring to people who maintain and/or increase their wealth because of the disproprtionately lower amount the 'rich' are taxed compared to the 'poor'. This fosters an increased disparity between the rich and poor...diminishing the numbers of the 'middle class'. Once our tax code system/taxation system as a whole becomes overhauled; the socioeconomical differences of Americans may be addressed proactively.

    Not all poor people are poor because they do 'nothing'; while not all rich are rich because they do 'something'.
    04-16-09 10:09 AM
  4. bearkat38's Avatar
    Bearkat and any other B O supporter that would like to reply, let me ask you a question. What is the one thing that has impressed you most since the socialist has been in office?
    I'm most impressed by the fact that he has been in office about three months and you guys have already labled him a socialist. While Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, and probably you sat back and and defended the completely indefensible Bush administation for eight years!
    04-16-09 10:15 AM
  5. thinkamp's Avatar
    I'm most impressed by the fact that he has been in office about three months and you guys have already labled him a socialist. While Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, and probably you sat back and and defended the completely indefensible Bush administation for eight years!
    What Bush did wasn't right and honestly makes me just as mad that Obama is just repeating history!
    04-16-09 10:27 AM
  6. roeod4's Avatar
    I'm most impressed by the fact that he has been in office about three months and you guys have already labled him a socialist. While Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, and probably you sat back and and defended the completely indefensible Bush administation for eight years!
    People can label Obama as a socialist by his viewpoints and his ideas. If you look back at the election, people labeled him as such before he even got the nomination. As an example his "Spread the wealth" idea is a pure socialism. Taking from one group and giving it to another is not a way to help people. Helping people find employment and earn for themselves is the only way to really help people who are in need. It is the old saying about give a man a fish and he will eat for a day and teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. The major problem with the system right now is that that man will be forced to then get a license to fish before he can take care of himself. The tools are there for everyone to take care of themselves (if they choose to do so), but our current government does everything that it can to make that difficult.

    If you really want to look at what our new president has been up to then take a look at this. NACHUMLIST Some of it you may like and some of it may make you madder than he11.

    Now, I do not listen to Hannity because I don't like his style. I prefer Beck and Boortz because of their views. As for defending Bush, I never did. There were plenty of things that I hated about Bush and plenty of things that pissed me off. I have never gone along party lines with the Dems or Reps anyway. I have been a libertarian for most of my life and I vote that way 99% of the time. That being said, the ability for people to point fingers backwards is just too funny.

    Why does accountability only work for the current administration? Where was your accountability argument the last eight years? And yes, I am against the death penalty for mainly two reasons: A. It's NOT a deterrent, and B. It's not applied fairly, along both racial and economic lines. I don't understand how you supposed "Christians" can be so anti-abortion, yet so pro death penalty at the same time! Hippocracy at its level best!!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I actually am pro-choice, but only because I don't believe it is the governments right to say what a person can and cannot do with their body. I do, however, find abortion to be a detestable thing and am totally against the idea of anyone actually having one. Confusing? Yes it is.

    The main reason that I am against abortion and for the death penalty is that unborn children have done nothing wrong. They are pure in heart and soul. They have not been given a choice to be here. Murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc have already been given the choice and have chosen to do harm to other people. They made a choice to harm others and I don't think that they deserve life anymore. Personally, I think that the families of the victim should have more say in what happens and possibly more involvement in the punishment. I know that if anyone did anything to my family I would want to be more involved and possibly be the one to pull the trigger, flip the switch or push the plunger.


    Sorry, I wrote a book again. I get a little carried away on this stuff.
    04-16-09 10:55 AM
  7. Storm7's Avatar
    I'm most impressed by the fact that he has been in office about three months and you guys have already labled him a socialist. While Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, and probably you sat back and and defended the completely indefensible Bush administation for eight years!
    Well at least you didn't say you liked the way he bowed to the Saudi King and the way he always apologizes for America when he goes on his European tours.

    The one thing I do applaud Bush for was he willingness to act preemptively after the disaster of 9/11...I'm sure you will disagree with that though. Sorry to disappoint you, but Bush wasn't a conservative, he started all the government bailouts which makes it easier for B O to continue this idiocy with so called stimulus bills that don't stimulate S**t but create bigger government which means more taxes. You want the economy to take off again, stop taxing, printing and spending money that you don't have and allow people to keep more of the check they've earned.
    04-16-09 10:55 AM
  8. roeod4's Avatar
    Well at least you didn't say you liked the way he bowed to the Saudi King and the way he always apologizes for America when he goes on his European tours.

    The one thing I do applaud Bush for was he willingness to act preemptively after the disaster of 9/11...I'm sure you will disagree with that though. Sorry to disappoint you, but Bush wasn't a conservative, he started all the government bailouts which makes it easier for B O to continue this idiocy with so called stimulus bills that don't stimulate S**t but create bigger government which means more taxes. You want the economy to take off again, stop taxing, printing and spending money that you don't have and allow people to keep more of the check they've earned.
    I wish more people would realize this.
    04-16-09 10:57 AM
  9. bearkat38's Avatar
    Well at least you didn't say you liked the way he bowed to the Saudi King and the way he always apologizes for America when he goes on his European tours.

    The one thing I do applaud Bush for was he willingness to act preemptively after the disaster of 9/11...I'm sure you will disagree with that though. Sorry to disappoint you, but Bush wasn't a conservative, he started all the government bailouts which makes it easier for B O to continue this idiocy with so called stimulus bills that don't stimulate S**t but create bigger government which means more taxes. You want the economy to take off again, stop taxing, printing and spending money that you don't have and allow people to keep more of the check they've earned.
    You applaud his response after 9/11? First of all, he sat in that classroom and did nothing! Then he decides to attack the wrong country? You applaud that? Would you applaud me, for example, if someone burned my house down and I decided to retalliate by shooting my neighbor who was out of town at the time?

    You expect your government to provide certain things, but you aren't willing to pay for these things. I never understood that. You also don't stimulate the economy by basically allowing the wealthy and corporations a "free pass" when it comes to paying taxes.

    I was always taught that when you phuck up, you apologize. I guess this doesn't apply to America?
    04-16-09 11:12 AM
  10. bearkat38's Avatar
    People can label Obama as a socialist by his viewpoints and his ideas. If you look back at the election, people labeled him as such before he even got the nomination. As an example his "Spread the wealth" idea is a pure socialism. Taking from one group and giving it to another is not a way to help people. Helping people find employment and earn for themselves is the only way to really help people who are in need. It is the old saying about give a man a fish and he will eat for a day and teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. The major problem with the system right now is that that man will be forced to then get a license to fish before he can take care of himself. The tools are there for everyone to take care of themselves (if they choose to do so), but our current government does everything that it can to make that difficult.

    If you really want to look at what our new president has been up to then take a look at this. NACHUMLIST Some of it you may like and some of it may make you madder than he11.

    Now, I do not listen to Hannity because I don't like his style. I prefer Beck and Boortz because of their views. As for defending Bush, I never did. There were plenty of things that I hated about Bush and plenty of things that pissed me off. I have never gone along party lines with the Dems or Reps anyway. I have been a libertarian for most of my life and I vote that way 99% of the time. That being said, the ability for people to point fingers backwards is just too funny.



    I actually am pro-choice, but only because I don't believe it is the governments right to say what a person can and cannot do with their body. I do, however, find abortion to be a detestable thing and am totally against the idea of anyone actually having one. Confusing? Yes it is.

    The main reason that I am against abortion and for the death penalty is that unborn children have done nothing wrong. They are pure in heart and soul. They have not been given a choice to be here. Murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc have already been given the choice and have chosen to do harm to other people. They made a choice to harm others and I don't think that they deserve life anymore. Personally, I think that the families of the victim should have more say in what happens and possibly more involvement in the punishment. I know that if anyone did anything to my family I would want to be more involved and possibly be the one to pull the trigger, flip the switch or push the plunger.


    Sorry, I wrote a book again. I get a little carried away on this stuff.
    Do you believe that everyone who has been sentenced to death is guilty? Do you think that anyone has ever been put to death for a crime that they didn't commit? If your answer is yes, then you must agree that the whole system is wrong. If your family member was the one wrongly accused of the crime, would your feelings be the same? Or is that somehow different?

    As i've stated before, recieving the death penalty is largely based on at least one of these two factors: race and your net worth. You probably don't have a problem with that either.

    "In 82% of the studies [reviewed], race of the victim was found to influence the likelihood of being charged with capital murder or receiving the death penalty, i.e., those who murdered whites were found more likely to be sentenced to death than those who murdered blacks."
    - United States General Accounting Office, Death Penalty Sentencing

    Think about it!
    04-16-09 11:23 AM
  11. roeod4's Avatar
    Do you believe that everyone who has been sentenced to death is guilty? Do you think that anyone has ever been put to death for a crime that they didn't commit? If your answer is yes, then you must agree that the whole system is wrong. If your family member was the one wrongly accused of the crime, would your feelings be the same? Or is that somehow different?

    As i've stated before, recieving the death penalty is largely based on at least one of these two factors: race and your net worth. You probably don't have a problem with that either.

    "In 82% of the studies [reviewed], race of the victim was found to influence the likelihood of being charged with capital murder or receiving the death penalty, i.e., those who murdered whites were found more likely to be sentenced to death than those who murdered blacks."
    - United States General Accounting Office, Death Penalty Sentencing

    Think about it!
    Obviously people are going to be convicted of a crime they did not commit. It has and will continue to happen. It is unfortunate, but the system is not and can never be perfect. I don't have to agree that the system is wrong based on this. You can think that way all you want, but it is the most just and fair system of justice in the world. Would you rather trade it for Mexico's system or Iran's? Are those better justice systems? Maybe you would prefer a system that allows someone to rot in jail with no due process, but I don't.

    Of course it is something different if it involves a member of an individuals family. It always is and always will be. That is an invalid argument for anyone. There is nobody that can honestly say that they think the same way about the rest of the world as they do about their own family. Obviously someone in my family being wrongly accused, convicted and sentenced of a crime that they didn't commit would be a problem for me. Anyone that says otherwise is a liar. This doesn't negate the death penalty though. Just because I have a problem with someone in my family or myself possibly being wrongly sentenced to death doesn't mean that the true violent criminals should get a free pass to go out and do it all again.

    I am not really going to comment on your race and money issues. To be honest they **** me off. The fact that you are insinuating that my views are in anyway racially or financially biased is insulting. I never said that I was among the wealthy in this country and you have no idea what race I am so your comments go to the heart of your real issues. I find this part of your argument laughable and highly offensive.

    I also like the fact that you ignored the first half of my post. I guess you have no real argument for it?
    04-16-09 12:05 PM
  12. bearkat38's Avatar
    Obviously people are going to be convicted of a crime they did not commit. It has and will continue to happen. It is unfortunate, but the system is not and can never be perfect. I don't have to agree that the system is wrong based on this. You can think that way all you want, but it is the most just and fair system of justice in the world. Would you rather trade it for Mexico's system or Iran's? Are those better justice systems? Maybe you would prefer a system that allows someone to rot in jail with no due process, but I don't.

    Of course it is something different if it involves a member of an individuals family. It always is and always will be. That is an invalid argument for anyone. There is nobody that can honestly say that they think the same way about the rest of the world as they do about their own family. Obviously someone in my family being wrongly accused, convicted and sentenced of a crime that they didn't commit would be a problem for me. Anyone that says otherwise is a liar. This doesn't negate the death penalty though. Just because I have a problem with someone in my family or myself possibly being wrongly sentenced to death doesn't mean that the true violent criminals should get a free pass to go out and do it all again.

    I am not really going to comment on your race and money issues. To be honest they **** me off. The fact that you are insinuating that my views are in anyway racially or financially biased is insulting. I never said that I was among the wealthy in this country and you have no idea what race I am so your comments go to the heart of your real issues. I find this part of your argument laughable and highly offensive.

    I also like the fact that you ignored the first half of my post. I guess you have no real argument for it?
    No, I actually agree with parts of the first part of your post. I do not agree with everything President Obama has done so far. But I also believe that we did not get into this mess in three months, so please don't expect these problems to be resolved in three months. If, over time, this proves to be the wrong strategy I will admit it.
    I did not say what I said to offend you (or anyone else) and if I did, I sincerely apologize. But you're not going to touch the race or money issues? That lies at the heart of the death penalty debate! Oh sure, the death penalty is fine as long as we ignore the obvious injustices of it!

    And I beg to differ about the American Justice system, just because it's better than Iran's or Mexico's does NOT make it the most just and fair system of justice in the world. We build more jails in this country than schools! why because jails are big business. Where else can you (legally) get labor for $0.35/hour?
    04-16-09 12:35 PM
  13. roeod4's Avatar
    No, I actually agree with parts of the first part of your post. I do not agree with everything President Obama has done so far. But I also believe that we did not get into this mess in three months, so please don't expect these problems to be resolved in three months. If, over time, this proves to be the wrong strategy I will admit it.
    I did not say what I said to offend you (or anyone else) and if I did, I sincerely apologize. But you're not going to touch the race or money issues? That lies at the heart of the death penalty debate! Oh sure, the death penalty is fine as long as we ignore the obvious injustices of it!

    And I beg to differ about the American Justice system, just because it's better than Iran's or Mexico's does NOT make it the most just and fair system of justice in the world. We build more jails in this country than schools! why because jails are big business. Where else can you (legally) get labor for $0.35/hour?
    OK fine, if you really want to get into it.......


    I'm sorry, but you can't turn something like the death penalty into a racial argument. If you think that more black people get the death penalty than white or hispanic people then you, my friend, are just dead wrong (pun intended). Since you decided to throw a little statistical information (that proves nothing) in there please allow me to retort:


    Since 1976 the total number of people executed in the US = 1157
    Broken down by race:
    Black - 400 (34%)
    Hispanic - 85 (7%)
    Other - 24 (2%)
    White - 648 (57%)

    The execution stats are current as of April 17, 2009 following the recent execution in Texas, BTW.

    Current US death row population by race:
    Black - 1,376 (41.6%)
    Hispanic - 365 (11.0%)
    Other - 77 (2.3%)
    White - 1,489 (45%)

    The death row stats actually come from the NAACP too.

    Race of Death Row Inmates Executed Since 1976 | Death Penalty Information Center

    Yep, it looks really racially biased to me. If I was going to be pissed at anyone and pointing fingers it would be the "other" group. Those guys are getting away with everything.

    As far as your argument about money, I guess that would probably be correct. However, I am looking at the fact that people who have money are far less likely to commit a violent crime than people who need money. I did not see any (didn't look really hard either) statistical information on this though. The fact that wealthier people can get away with murder is a fact that isn't lost on anyone that watch the OJ trial either. People that are stuck with a public defender are unfortunately getting the best council that they can.

    I won't argue the whole justice system with you. I think it is far greater than what is found in other countries, if you don't then I pray you never get arrested in Thailand. Which also happens to be a place that you can get labor (legally) for less than $0.32 per hour. With companies sending manufacturing jobs overseas there are plenty of places that they can get people to work for less than $100 a month.

    Don't get me started on how bad our school system sucks. The last few presidents haven't done much to improve things and Obama doesn't appear to be going in the right direction with his love of the Venezuelan school systems.
    04-16-09 02:19 PM
  14. oifvet1967's Avatar
    OK fine, if you really want to get into it.......


    I'm sorry, but you can't turn something like the death penalty into a racial argument. If you think that more black people get the death penalty than white or hispanic people then you, my friend, are just dead wrong (pun intended). Since you decided to throw a little statistical information (that proves nothing) in there please allow me to retort:


    Since 1976 the total number of people executed in the US = 1157
    Broken down by race:
    Black - 400 (34%)
    Hispanic - 85 (7%)
    Other - 24 (2%)
    White - 648 (57%)

    The execution stats are current as of April 17, 2009 following the recent execution in Texas, BTW.

    Current US death row population by race:
    Black - 1,376 (41.6%)
    Hispanic - 365 (11.0%)
    Other - 77 (2.3%)
    White - 1,489 (45%)

    The death row stats actually come from the NAACP too.

    Race of Death Row Inmates Executed Since 1976 | Death Penalty Information Center

    Yep, it looks really racially biased to me. If I was going to be pissed at anyone and pointing fingers it would be the "other" group. Those guys are getting away with everything.

    As far as your argument about money, I guess that would probably be correct. However, I am looking at the fact that people who have money are far less likely to commit a violent crime than people who need money. I did not see any (didn't look really hard either) statistical information on this though. The fact that wealthier people can get away with murder is a fact that isn't lost on anyone that watch the OJ trial either. People that are stuck with a public defender are unfortunately getting the best council that they can.

    I won't argue the whole justice system with you. I think it is far greater than what is found in other countries, if you don't then I pray you never get arrested in Thailand. Which also happens to be a place that you can get labor (legally) for less than $0.32 per hour. With companies sending manufacturing jobs overseas there are plenty of places that they can get people to work for less than $100 a month.

    Don't get me started on how bad our school system sucks. The last few presidents haven't done much to improve things and Obama doesn't appear to be going in the right direction with his love of the Venezuelan school systems.
    Somebody just got owned!

    But Im sure those figures must be flawed in some way...RIIIIIGHT!
    04-16-09 04:08 PM
  15. BergerKing's Avatar
    Ya'll wanna get it figured out what has been going on in our lifetime, and what the hail is going on. Try this for a Google search, it won't post as a link from mobile.

    Naked Communist. Excerpts from the 1963 Congressional Record.

    Feel the chill wind...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-16-09 04:21 PM
  16. oifvet1967's Avatar
    Ya'll wanna get it figured out what has been going on in our lifetime, and what the hail is going on. Try this for a Google search, it won't post as a link from mobile.

    Naked Communist. Excerpts from the 1963 Congressional Record.

    Feel the chill wind...

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Interesting....Found this also.
    Ten Planks of Communism
    04-16-09 05:16 PM
  17. BergerKing's Avatar
    Yes. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Why do you think they have removed American History from most of the schools?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-16-09 05:58 PM
  18. roeod4's Avatar
    Those are the things that keep me up at night. Thank you very much gentlemen for posting.

    I wish that people would really take the time to understand what they are truly asking for when they ask the government to take care of them. The people that we now call "public servant" will someday be called master if we are not careful.
    04-16-09 06:16 PM
  19. bearkat38's Avatar
    OK fine, if you really want to get into it.......


    I'm sorry, but you can't turn something like the death penalty into a racial argument. If you think that more black people get the death penalty than white or hispanic people then you, my friend, are just dead wrong (pun intended). Since you decided to throw a little statistical information (that proves nothing) in there please allow me to retort:


    Since 1976 the total number of people executed in the US = 1157
    Broken down by race:
    Black - 400 (34%)
    Hispanic - 85 (7%)
    Other - 24 (2%)
    White - 648 (57%)

    The execution stats are current as of April 17, 2009 following the recent execution in Texas, BTW.

    Current US death row population by race:
    Black - 1,376 (41.6%)
    Hispanic - 365 (11.0%)
    Other - 77 (2.3%)
    White - 1,489 (45%)

    The death row stats actually come from the NAACP too.

    Race of Death Row Inmates Executed Since 1976 | Death Penalty Information Center

    Yep, it looks really racially biased to me. If I was going to be pissed at anyone and pointing fingers it would be the "other" group. Those guys are getting away with everything.

    As far as your argument about money, I guess that would probably be correct. However, I am looking at the fact that people who have money are far less likely to commit a violent crime than people who need money. I did not see any (didn't look really hard either) statistical information on this though. The fact that wealthier people can get away with murder is a fact that isn't lost on anyone that watch the OJ trial either. People that are stuck with a public defender are unfortunately getting the best council that they can.

    I won't argue the whole justice system with you. I think it is far greater than what is found in other countries, if you don't then I pray you never get arrested in Thailand. Which also happens to be a place that you can get labor (legally) for less than $0.32 per hour. With companies sending manufacturing jobs overseas there are plenty of places that they can get people to work for less than $100 a month.

    Don't get me started on how bad our school system sucks. The last few presidents haven't done much to improve things and Obama doesn't appear to be going in the right direction with his love of the Venezuelan school systems.
    You just showed me a statistic that says that since 1976, 400 blacks have been put to death while 600 whites have been put to death. It also states, in the same study, that the current death row population consists of 41.6% black and 45% white. what the study doesn't mention though, is that blacks only make up 12% of the general population! Yea, that's fair!!
    04-16-09 06:49 PM
  20. bearkat38's Avatar
    Somebody just got owned!

    But Im sure those figures must be flawed in some way...RIIIIIGHT!
    Owned? Just read the above post

    what are you, 12?
    04-16-09 06:53 PM
  21. roeod4's Avatar
    You just showed me a statistic that says that since 1976, 400 blacks have been put to death while 600 whites have been put to death. It also states, in the same study, that the current death row population consists of 41.6% black and 45% white. what the study doesn't mention though, is that blacks only make up 12% of the general population! Yea, that's fair!!
    Yes, you are correct. Black people make up a smaller percent of the population that white people do. The figure was actually 12.8% in 2007 and the current figures are closer to 13.4%. The actual numbers for execution is also 401 Black and 648 White, if we are going to list numbers, I think they should be accurate. Don't you?

    I still say that it is unfortunate that so many people have needed to be executed in this country in the past 33 years. However, it is a very good thing that the US doesn't execute people based on population, but on the crimes they commit. According to the Bureau of Justice Black people represent 47% of all convicted murders while white people represent 37%. Based on those figures and the ones in my previous post it shows that white people are almost twice as likely to be executed than black people. The BOJ also shows that white people are executed 17 months faster than black people. Since the overwhelming majority of prosecutors in this country are white, how does that happen if the system is so racist? Maybe, just maybe people are getting prosecuted for the crimes they commit and not the color of their skin.

    In the end it isn't clear why a believed biased application of the death penalty should be considered a valid argument against it anyway. If aperson agrees with executing murderers in principle, then who cares that it's more likely to be applied to murderers of one race or another? In the end a murder is a murder no matter what race, sex, religion or sexual orientation that they are. Once you break away from that fact, the only thing you are arguing is whether or not people are racist in this country. The obvious answer is yes. There are racist people in this country and they come from every race. This is something that I doubt many people will dispute. Unfortunate? Of course it is, but it is a byproduct of free will. However it is pretty obvious that this racism is now in the minority of this country. You can't sit there and label the majority as racist. Even labeling the justice system (which is made up of us common folk) is really ridiculous at this point. If America was really this racist nightmare, then how in HE11 did we end up with a black president? It isn't like the 13.4% that makes up the entire black population were the only people to vote the man in.
    04-17-09 11:35 AM
  22. oifvet1967's Avatar
    Owned? Just read the above post

    what are you, 12?
    Lol...no and that quote has been around years. Considering that there are over 40 million african americans in the US, are you telling me that those 1376that are on death row are somehow victims of discrimination? Come on!

    Sure...discrimination still happens...for blacks, whites, hispanics, asians and others but you have to admit that we have made enormous progress. It will continue to get better as long as people stop throwing the race card everytime something doesnt go their way. There is no basis for your argument...just another american that thinks he's a victim.
    04-17-09 11:52 AM
  23. roeod4's Avatar
    04-17-09 12:05 PM
  24. oifvet1967's Avatar
    Lol....that's one bad a$$ windmill too!!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-17-09 12:19 PM
  25. bearkat38's Avatar
    Yes, you are correct. Black people make up a smaller percent of the population that white people do. The figure was actually 12.8% in 2007 and the current figures are closer to 13.4%. The actual numbers for execution is also 401 Black and 648 White, if we are going to list numbers, I think they should be accurate. Don't you?

    I still say that it is unfortunate that so many people have needed to be executed in this country in the past 33 years. However, it is a very good thing that the US doesn't execute people based on population, but on the crimes they commit. According to the Bureau of Justice Black people represent 47% of all convicted murders while white people represent 37%. Based on those figures and the ones in my previous post it shows that white people are almost twice as likely to be executed than black people. The BOJ also shows that white people are executed 17 months faster than black people. Since the overwhelming majority of prosecutors in this country are white, how does that happen if the system is so racist? Maybe, just maybe people are getting prosecuted for the crimes they commit and not the color of their skin.

    In the end it isn't clear why a believed biased application of the death penalty should be considered a valid argument against it anyway. If aperson agrees with executing murderers in principle, then who cares that it's more likely to be applied to murderers of one race or another? In the end a murder is a murder no matter what race, sex, religion or sexual orientation that they are. Once you break away from that fact, the only thing you are arguing is whether or not people are racist in this country. The obvious answer is yes. There are racist people in this country and they come from every race. This is something that I doubt many people will dispute. Unfortunate? Of course it is, but it is a byproduct of free will. However it is pretty obvious that this racism is now in the minority of this country. You can't sit there and label the majority as racist. Even labeling the justice system (which is made up of us common folk) is really ridiculous at this point. If America was really this racist nightmare, then how in HE11 did we end up with a black president? It isn't like the 13.4% that makes up the entire black population were the only people to vote the man in.
    Believed bias? No, I'm afraid that this bias/racism is alive and well in 2009. Yes racism is a minority in this country among the population in general and that is a beautiful thing, but the problem with that is the fact that the most racist demographic in this country is older white men and they are the ones pulling the strings in this society. So I'm afraid that your conviction rate statistics are inherently skewed.

    "A major factor contributing to racial disparity in prosecution and punishment is the discriminatory profiling of minorities-based on race, ethnicity, and sexual preference-as criminal suspects and, especially, as drug traffickers. In Maryland, state police statistics showed that 73% of cars stopped and searched on I-95 between Baltimore and Delaware in a two-year period were driven by African-Americans, while only 14% of those driving on that stretch of road were Black. Police found absolutely nothing in 70% of those searches. The use of Racial profiling has now been admitted in New Jersey, and evidence of its use elsewhere is widespread."

    This is directly related to your conviction statistics. It shows that although overt racism is on the the decline, those in power are still allowed, to pretty much, do as they please (In the name of "justice", of course.) For the record: racial profiling=racism!

    As for the death penalty:

    "Statistical evidence, including that compiled by the Death Penalty Information Center, shows that African-American men are disproportionately represented among those on death row and those who have been executed in the last twenty years. Although people of color are the victims in more than half of all homicides, a White victim case is over four times more likely to result in a death sentence than a comparable Black victim case."

    What is that saying other than under our great system of justice, white life is more valuable than black life? How do you exonerate the "the most fair and just system in the world" for that?
    04-17-09 01:30 PM
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