06-11-11 06:38 AM
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  1. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    I'm not sure allot of people disliked OS6. If they did, they will not like OS7. It adds some functionality. But it is essentially the same OS as 6, and OS5 before it. These are not bottom up re-writes. They are just better overlays, (like themes) on the existing Java infrastructure. All the data will still flow through the BES, the screens will still be the same, the icons will have new looks, but OS7 will not be IOS, or Gingerbread with HTC sense overlayed. BBOS is the BBOS.

    PS carriers don't care and many devices since 4.5 have released with the promise of magor upgrades to follow. Including many 5.0 that went to 6.0.
    I know it's not a complete rewrite- they needed to make UI better, more stable, no reboots when dling etc. They also wanted to make it much easier for people because many people found os 4 5 and 6 as... difficult? Hence why Apple and Droid have something for everyone.
    06-09-11 03:14 PM
  2. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    SNip Snip Snip
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Their arrogance is what got them in this position, you realize that don't you? They said the iPhone wasn't going to catch on because they were so arrogant of their products.... yeah.... look what happened. Look how fast they became third in the North American Market. It happened within just 4-5 months (within the last year. they went from 33% to 25% from the news articles I read.) If you think they need to continue on the path they are going, then you should apply for a job at RIM. They have shot themselves in the foot a few times with their mentality.

    I agree they need their swagger back, but it comes in the form of marketing to a new generation, staying on schedule, consistently putting products onto the market that are quality and ready to go out of the box.

    Lastly, I will remain loyal because I love my BB, however, they need to make changes and move forward NOW. They need to make things accessible, smooth and flexible. If they copy other services, while adding new innovative features to differentiate themselves, I have no problem with that whatsoever.
    06-09-11 03:20 PM
  3. TheArliss's Avatar
    I cant say i agree with "dumbing down" my blackberry os.. RIM needs to stay apart and be different from the competition as they have done. but it seems to me they are slowly making it easier?
    in any event my blackberry does everything i need it to do perfectly fine i guess it really comes to RIM being behind the competition hardware wise. (no front face camera, hotspots) i was sure the 9900 would have been 3g & 4g compatable, getting ready for the next step in cellular technology
    06-09-11 03:22 PM
  4. dynot's Avatar
    I'm sure the RIM apologists and those in denial will come along and criticize the article, using clever play on word to insult the analysts rather than heed their warnings.

    I'm not sayng that they're always right but to dismiss their analyses outright is at best wreckless. Their negative outlook taken together with RIM's lack of response - even if only perceived - is disconcerting for cautious investors such as myself.
    06-09-11 03:43 PM
  5. papped's Avatar
    I'm sure the RIM apologists and those in denial will come along and criticize the article, using clever play on word to insult the analysts rather than heed their warnings.

    I'm not sayng that they're always right but to dismiss their analyses outright is at best wreckless. Their negative outlook taken together with RIM's lack of response - even if only perceived - is disconcerting for cautious investors such as myself.
    Most people here aren't investing, so it's actually quite easy and not dangerous to ignore analysts comments (even if you want to assume they are correct).
    06-09-11 03:44 PM
  6. BigBuffBerry's Avatar
    They should have shipped these phones with OS 6, scrapped OS7 and worked on QNX for Holiday 2011.

    This is getting ridiculous.
    homer1475 likes this.
    06-09-11 03:47 PM
  7. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    They should have shipped these phones with OS 6, scrapped OS7 and worked on QNX for Holiday 2011.

    This is getting ridiculous.
    Yeah OS 7 seems like a waste of time and resources. And there were even rumors of OS 7.5 after that so making QNX not likely on handhelds until mid 2012 at the soonest. More wasted time.
    06-09-11 03:53 PM
  8. mmcpher's Avatar
    I agree generally with the hardware being the primary draw for the new handsets, not 7.0 (which isn't even Phone QNX 1.0). If I had Torch II specs on my Torch I, with its Torch I OS, I'd be very happy, and couldn't RIM have simply released the phones and then rolled out the OS upgrades as they became ready? Isn't this what they continually do anyway with their phones and now their tablet?

    Certainly the intergration of QNX could have been smoother, but notwithstanding the cheap shots, the Playbook is a real positive in terms of what it portends for RIM down the road. But they need to collect their thoughts and get back on the right road. Too much teasing instead of testing, too many glimpses and not enough grinding out the hardware. Ever since September, RIM had been coyly showing the Playbook and saying ecstatic things about QNX but without the discipline necessary to properly manage expectations.

    QNX was going from, for the Playbook, then maybe for the Playbook and phones, then definately going to be on the phones and then. . . . 6.1 becomes 7.0 but it doesn't become QNX, and its just confusing and indicative of indecision or something. I get that a public company can't jump at every rumor or there'd be no end to it. But RIM needs to address current conditions. You have had a series of delays, any one or a few of which won't matter much in the long run, but given the current climate of piling on, the pattern of RIM pushing things out is not helpful. The Playbook was delayed and then launched without a finished OS, the 2011 line-up is announced and encouraging, but the buzz is already being drowned out by rank speculation and snickering over the floating release dates. RIM's tendency toward silence can be endearing, but it also allows for a lot of mischief and rumor-mongering. It must be frustrating to have worked so hard and intelligently to put into place a line-up and strategy that is so promising, while at the same time being unable to answer simple questions like when and where.
    rollingrock1988 likes this.
    06-09-11 04:02 PM
  9. CranBerry413's Avatar
    Their arrogance is what got them in this position, you realize that don't you? They said the iPhone wasn't going to catch on because they were so arrogant of their products.... yeah.... look what happened. Look how fast they became third in the North American Market. It happened within just 4-5 months (within the last year. they went from 33% to 25% from the news articles I read.) If you think they need to continue on the path they are going, then you should apply for a job at RIM. They have shot themselves in the foot a few times with their mentality.

    I agree they need their swagger back, but it comes in the form of marketing to a new generation, staying on schedule, consistently putting products onto the market that are quality and ready to go out of the box.

    Lastly, I will remain loyal because I love my BB, however, they need to make changes and move forward NOW. They need to make things accessible, smooth and flexible. If they copy other services, while adding new innovative features to differentiate themselves, I have no problem with that whatsoever.
    Yes, I completely agree that they shot themselves in the foot. But I also know that I choose BlackBerry because it's different, because it's reliable. And I'm not the only one. I completely agree with you on all of your points.

    I just think they should always be true to themselves. That's what made them successful. Not trying to appeal & pander.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-09-11 05:39 PM
  10. 1magine's Avatar
    And the good news keeps rolling in...
    An Options Play on Troubled RIM Stock - Barrons.com


    "...Investors who own Research in Motion (ticker: RIMM) have big problems. The stock is down 42% in the past three months, and the stock chart looks like shares could go lower still.

    "...This week, Morgan Keegan, Merrill Lynch, Oppenheimer and Gleacher cut their outlooks on RIM..."
    06-09-11 05:40 PM
  11. 1magine's Avatar
    I just think they should always be true to themselves. That's what made them successful. Not trying to appeal & pander.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yeah - great business strategy - Don't try to appeal and pander to what people want. They're fickle. Just keep doing what you're doing, and if they don't like it, tough. Yep, sounds like you work for RIM.
    06-09-11 05:42 PM
  12. CranBerry413's Avatar
    Yeah - great business strategy - Don't try to appeal and pander to what people want. They're fickle. Just keep doing what you're doing, and if they don't like it, tough. Yep, sounds like you work for RIM.
    I don't work for RIM. I enjoy their products. People Rarely know what they want. Features and new functions of Smartphones are added that people don't realize that they want/need until they're told that they do.

    Apple is a perfect example of this. Generally, they don't have certain features, and when they're added, all of the Apple Tribe praise Steve Jobs.

    I'm just saying that RIM needs to stick to it's guns, and making sure that it's Distinguishable. I don't need a phone with a 4 inch glass liability. I want a phone that takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-09-11 05:55 PM
  13. 1magine's Avatar
    I don't want to get off on a tangent. But people know what they want. They may not always be able to visualize or express it. But when they see it, they buy it. I noted this on several posts 2-3 years ago. When the I-phone first hit, regardless of what it wasn't, what it was, was what allot of people wanted. A large touch screen, media loving, simple for grandma UI, phone. 2 years after its launch, most phones were emulating that form factor and doing well. And hardware began to push out as devices became more media hungry. In fact, I commented 2+ years ago at how many BB loving professionals in NYC were now carrying 2 devices (much like CB Kevin, who has several Apple products he carries with him). Now, you and RIM can both say people are fickle, and they don't really need this, or want that. But if you want to sell smartphones, you need only look around and see what consumers want. They are not clamoring for underpowered, devices with tiny screens, that slows ALL data throughput, so it can be compressed through a seperate server (NOC). In fact, all the 2011 devices (handhelds and PB) are proof that RIM understands they screwed up. They are all at least 2X as fast as the 2010 devices. Most have touch screens. The Monaco is the largest screen RIM has ever made. 2X the RAM. And proof that RIM understands their handheld OS is a disaster, they didn't even put it on the Tablet. Imagine Android or Apple putting an entirely new incompatible OS on their tablets? Never.

    Problem is, understanding the problem and sorting through fixing it are 2 different things. RIM has clearly not invested the resopurces necessary to do what had to be done. Otherwise these devices would all have launched in Q1, with a clear upgrade path, and come September dual core, QNX handhelds would be coming to market. In business, no one really cares that you're trying. Not to quote movies - but it's true. There is no try. You just do or you don't. At about $30 per share and falling, with analysts, tech sites and a majority of consumers believing that BB is inferior, slow and old; right now RIM is not doing.

    Again for what its worth, I'm looking forward to and will buy the Monaco/Monza depending what carrier I'm on in September. But I'm locked to BES.
    scorpiodsu likes this.
    06-09-11 06:18 PM
  14. Economist101's Avatar
    Just look at the Apple Convention, and the way they are like a cult following the speakers words as if they were Dogma. (Not taking shots, just an observation from one who shunned the Kool-Aid.)

    Seriously RIM...I will continue to be Loyal, I will continue to use BlackBerry, and I will Continue to Condone the Arrogance. Please get your Swagger Back RIM...ASAP.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You probably want to avoid having a single comment that talks about shunning Apple "Kool-Aid" and then follows with "I will continue to be Loyal, I will continue to use BlackBerry, and I will Continue to Condone the Arrogance." Just a thought.
    06-09-11 06:31 PM
  15. TheArliss's Avatar
    To say the BBOS is a disaster is a bit overdoing it.. i agree in saying rim needs to stick with what their doingm in terms of form factors and what not... people who do alot of emails and messaging like keyboards.. what they need to do is add other things (like a front face camera) and and keeping the guts of the phones up to date.. they have something for everyone stomrs,torch,bold,curve,...pearl..kinda
    Last edited by TheArliss; 06-09-11 at 06:41 PM.
    06-09-11 06:38 PM
  16. CranBerry413's Avatar
    Tangent or not, the fact remains: If you can't articulate what you want, you don't know what you want. Consumers are generally unaware of they ever getting into when they buy technology.

    Few people are in tune with their needs & wants. They just get what appeals to them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-09-11 06:41 PM
  17. avt123's Avatar
    Just look at the Apple Convention, and the way they are like a cult following the speakers words as if they were Dogma. (Not taking shots, just an observation from one who shunned the Kool-Aid.)

    Seriously RIM...I will continue to be Loyal, I will continue to use BlackBerry, and I will Continue to Condone the Arrogance. Please get your Swagger Back RIM...ASAP.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Wow, you are making fun of people who are exactly like you, but they use a different product. It sounds like the kool-aid you drank was laced with hypocrisy.
    06-09-11 06:55 PM
  18. 1812dave's Avatar
    I wish RIM would respond to this article with positive information. They're lack of response doesn't inspire confidence.
    How do you expect them to respond with positive info where there is no ammo in their rifle?
    1magine likes this.
    06-09-11 07:46 PM
  19. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    I'm just saying that RIM needs to stick to it's guns, and making sure that it's Distinguishable. I don't need a phone with a 4 inch glass liability. I want a phone that takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You don't run a business by "sticking to your guns" and ignoring what the market demands. It's not just about having a phone that "takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'..... it's the fact that RIM gave put out a device that does that while satisfying the current market demands. If you think a company isn't supposed to adapt to a changing environment then you certainly don't know anything about running a business. You are supposed to stick to your core strengths BUT you have to be able to adapt them a changing market. The market is not what it was 5 years ago.
    Last edited by scorpiodsu; 06-10-11 at 09:05 AM.
    06-09-11 09:30 PM
  20. scorpiodsu's Avatar
    You probably want to avoid having a single comment that talks about shunning Apple "Kool-Aid" and then follows with "I will continue to be Loyal, I will continue to use BlackBerry, and I will Continue to Condone the Arrogance." Just a thought.
    Exactly. Everyone who's loyal to Apple is somehow drinking koolaid. But the ones who are loyal to BB are not . Just plain hypocrisy.
    06-09-11 09:31 PM
  21. ekafara's Avatar
    Should have shipped with OS6 and current hardware... Less testing, faster release. Still think that was their single largest mistake.
    If they did that we could skip the carriers and get a leaked OS7 off of CrackBerry : )

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-09-11 09:43 PM
  22. johnenglish's Avatar
    RIM is criticized no matter what they do so they just figured "F- it" and will continue along according to their schedule.
    06-09-11 10:13 PM
  23. kevinnugent's Avatar
    RIM is criticized no matter what they do so they just figured "F- it" and will continue along according to their schedule.
    Obviously the people who made that decision aren't shareholders.
    06-09-11 11:08 PM
  24. johnenglish's Avatar
    I imagine that the management team at RIM are all shareholders.
    06-10-11 12:16 AM
  25. NormanGC#CB's Avatar
    This is the most recent downgrade that they have received from analysts which is not a surprise. RIM's market share, even though they still have total record sales, has been shrinking because of the lack of new products.

    IMHO the PB is exactly what it's title says; Its a Play Book! A toy! Look at the advertisement. The only thing that they show you is how you can surf the web, view videos and playing games at the same time. It of no use during business hours. Using a virtual keyboard is not efficient for business use, especially if you have a lot of data to enter.

    Blackberry world, to me was a flop unless you want to play games like Angry Birds, or add a Bing search engine, or want to view your contact information in new way.

    They did, i have to admit, bring in the ability to run android apps!

    Investors are seeing the same things, are listening to the consumer's reactions and they read the facts in the glorified sales figures. RIM has focused so much on the play book that they forgot about their smartphone business. It has been 1 1/2 years since the launch of the storm 2 and as far as I can see, the next upgrade will not be delivered until September or even October. The product that is geared for that time is still based on a single core processor. As for their other phones, they have not really changed anything since their inception. Oh yeah they did increase the memory a little 98 MB to 128 to 256 (wow!) But really, look at them, they really are the same old phones.

    HTC, Motorola, Samsung and others are constantly changing their products. They're already talking about quad core phones! When they release a product, it practically outdated on day 1. They are moving so fast that people no longer want to see new phones with single cores.

    The 9900/9930 should have been released 6 months ago but will only be released in June/July (HAHAHAHA!!!!) more like August/September this year. It'll be too little innovation and too late. Many of their so called loyal customers are now bailing because, for the most part, the grass IS greener on the other side. Instead of having Potatoes, Potatoes and more potatoes on the menu, they now have Potatoes of many flavors plus carrots, beans, corn, etc... from all other companies.
    Last edited by NormanGC; 06-10-11 at 12:56 AM.
    06-10-11 12:53 AM
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