[ritesh]

I want a phone that takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Love this quote man. I am going to use it too.

I am with you CranBerry. Till the time my business depends on Emails, I ain't going anywhere. Love the way a BB delivers in that department.

If RIM decides to list on the Asian Exchanges, they will do better than the almost US 30 levels they are at now.

I think it is an internal ploy, to sell off the company cheap in the coming times. The top guys must have made their money. And then, for a complete revamp, deteriorate the share price, sell cheap, lay-offs and then a massive turnaround or a strategic Merger.

Only time will tell.

[CranBerry413]

Exactly. Everyone who's loyal to Apple is somehow drinking koolaid. But the ones who are loyal to BB are not . Just plain hypocrisy.

Let me Be Clear: I didn't drink Apple's Cool-Aid. More importantly, I support RIM and all their bonehead moves, and refuse to let people who put up a body of evidence that seems skewed, sway me.

And more to the Point, RIM doesn't serve Cool-Aid, it's Blue Hawaiian Punch. *Sarcasm Alert*

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[rollingrock1988]

Yes, I completely agree that they shot themselves in the foot. But I also know that I choose BlackBerry because it's different, because it's reliable. And I'm not the only one. I completely agree with you on all of your points.

I just think they should always be true to themselves. That's what made them successful. Not trying to appeal & pander.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I agree and respect your statements. But a company can stay true to themselves and still move forward with the market.

By not appealing and pandering, RIM has lost itself. There is a fine line between the two (staying true to yourself and appealing to the masses.) I just think RIM needs to do both. Again marketing is my biggest issue with them and I am not going to continue to state why because I am sure at this point people have see and understand my position on it.

To sum it up:

During his tenure at RIM, Liebenberg has grown BlackBerry’s presence in the SA market in leaps and bounds, helping transform the brand from being popular only among corporate office workers to being wildly successful in the retail consumer and youth markets.

Its free BlackBerry Messenger instant messaging service and flat-rate Internet charges have proved hugely successful among budget-conscious consumers.

Last month, BlackBerry ousted Coca-Cola as the “coolest overall brand” among 8-22-year-olds in the Sunday Times Generation Next Youth Brand Survey. It climbed eight places from last year to snatch the number one position. It overtook Nokia, which had previously been the “coolest cellphone brand”

How have they not been able to do that in North America????

[anon(636465)]

There has to be a logical explanation of why they're waiting. Maybe if they released a new product now, it wouldn't be ready. Then they would get criticized about releasing a crappy phone. Either way they're screwed. I'd rather wait to release a strong product while taking the heat for being slow, then release it way too quick and have a crappy product.

Hey, who do we know that did that? *cough* vista *cough*

[CranBerry413]

I agree and respect your statements. But a company can stay true to themselves and still move forward with the market.

By not appealing and pandering, RIM has lost itself. There is a fine line between the two (staying true to yourself and appealing to the masses.) I just think RIM needs to do both. Again marketing is my biggest issue with them and I am not going to continue to state why because I am sure at this point people have see and understand my position on it.

To sum it up:

How have they not been able to do that in North America????

That's exactly my point, summed up very nicely. They have lost themselves hard body. And that is something they need to rediscover.

Otherwise, as far as a business being run, you're right. I don't know anything about that. But as a Physics Major and Consummate Nerd, I know numbers.

Revenue is Up. Profit is Up. No stats, no mock up numbers, no Spin Doctor. From that alone, I see RIM being fine as things roll along.

You can show me all these other stats, numbers, reports, Blah blah blah. Bottom line, is that RIM's Bottom Line is just Dandy.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's no Apple with it's 3 figure Stock price, or Google with it's insane Stock price, but it is a solod stock.

The fact that one would choose to argue it either way shows relevance. Whether for or against, they obviously matter, or people wouldn't talk about them at all. I.e. Kyocera

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[1magine]

There has to be a logical explanation of why they're waiting. Maybe if they released a new product now, it wouldn't be ready. Then they would get criticized about releasing a crappy phone. Either way they're screwed. I'd rather wait to release a strong product while taking the heat for being slow, then release it way too quick and have a crappy product.

Hey, who do we know that did that? *cough* vista *cough*

Sorry - but again someone in this thread misses the point and asks us to make false choices.

1st and Foremost. Regardless of industry, but especially in tech, whether you make smartphones or GPUs; you need to be able to BOTH deliver your products in a timely manner and have them delivered complete, and in a relatively bug free state. It's not one or the other. Sorry, but its the truth, and more people around here should be speaking it.

2nd - It does not matter why we are 6+ months into 2011 without a new device release date and only 1 device announced. It happenned. Share value is tumbling because of it. And if you want to give them a pass, great, but understand that most consumers, analysts, tech watchers and BES hostages will not, especially because it was clearly an internal man made, unforced disaster.

[infamyx]

That's exactly my point, summed up very nicely. They have lost themselves hard body. And that is something they need to rediscover.

Otherwise, as far as a business being run, you're right. I don't know anything about that. But as a Physics Major and Consummate Nerd, I know numbers.

Revenue is Up. Profit is Up. No stats, no mock up numbers, no Spin Doctor. From that alone, I see RIM being fine as things roll along.

You can show me all these other stats, numbers, reports, Blah blah blah. Bottom line, is that RIM's Bottom Line is just Dandy.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's no Apple with it's 3 figure Stock price, or Google with it's insane Stock price, but it is a solod stock.

The fact that one would choose to argue it either way shows relevance. Whether for or against, they obviously matter, or people wouldn't talk about them at all. I.e. Kyocera

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

The problem with that is RIM is losing a critical piece of the smartphone buying market at an astronomical pace that has no signs of slowing down.

Sure RIM is still moving headsets, but they are to smaller developing nations. They are buying the phones no doubt, but that is because they are cheap. RIM wont be able to push higher priced devices on those areas like they can here in North America , this is the main reason RIMs Average Selling Price has plummeted the past few years! RIM is on the fast track to going the way of Nokia, which is to say not competing with the big boys anymore.

Regardless, RIMs future hangs on getting new devices to the NA market and quickly. If RIM has truthfully decided to hang back until Sept to launch their one new BB it is going to be swiftly destroyed by the impending iPhone 5 launch which if all the rumors are true is happening in Sept as well. They'll also continue to get destroyed by Android which seems to not be slowing down at all.

If RIM cant keep people from converting due to lack of headsets, or getting a significant number of new subs in the NA market, RIM is royally f*cked.

[JoJoCal19]

If shares dip below $30, they could become a target for takeover.

I've said it for the past year and I'll say it again, RIM hardware + Android OS = win (at least for me). Of course they could add some tweaks to make it more appealing to the enterprise market (security,messaging,etc). The Bold 9900/9930 with Android underpinnings would appeal to me.

[CranBerry413]

The problem with that is RIM is losing a critical piece of the smartphone buying market at an astronomical pace that has no signs of slowing down.

Sure RIM is still moving headsets, but they are to smaller developing nations. They are buying the phones no doubt, but that is because they are cheap. RIM wont be able to push higher priced devices on those areas like they can here in North America , this is the main reason RIMs Average Selling Price has plummeted the past few years! RIM is on the fast track to going the way of Nokia, which is to say not competing with the big boys anymore.

Regardless, RIMs future hangs on getting new devices to the NA market and quickly. If RIM has truthfully decided to hang back until Sept to launch their one new BB it is going to be swiftly destroyed by the impending iPhone 5 launch which if all the rumors are true is happening in Sept as well. They'll also continue to get destroyed by Android which seems to not be slowing down at all.

If RIM cant keep people from converting due to lack of headsets, or getting a significant number of new subs in the NA market, RIM is royally f*cked.

Scary because it is True. However, I think these new devices are going to make an impact. I also think, that the market share is being dominated by a lack of understanding.

Most people just write down "Android Market Share." Which is Many different Makers, all under the same loose flag. RIM is still killing Motorola, HTC, Samsung, and any other Google Phone maker individually. These makers are actually at Google's mercy, because they are not in control of how the Android OS is implemented.

That's not something I would want to be involved with, only because there is no guarantee that Google is not going to play fairly or nicely. Or even keep up with their older iterations of the OS. They say that fragmentation is bad on BBOS, well then what would you call Android's present state?

But I digress, the point is still, that people need some show of faith from RIM.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Seijuro]

I've said it for the past year and I'll say it again, RIM hardware + Android OS = win (at least for me). Of course they could add some tweaks to make it more appealing to the enterprise market (security,messaging,etc). The Bold 9900/9930 with Android underpinnings would appeal to me.

android?!
NO -.-


RIM hardware + RIM OS = yes, please !
thanks !


if they should ever have to merge with someone, then please with microsoft
im tired of all the apple/google ****, i love my blackberry <3

[avt123]

Most people just write down "Android Market Share." Which is Many different Makers, all under the same loose flag. RIM is still killing Motorola, HTC, Samsung, and any other Google Phone maker individually. These makers are actually at Google's mercy, because they are not in control of how the Android OS is implemented.

Because it is OS market share, not manufacturer.

[CranBerry413]

Because it is OS market share, not manufacturer.

When you clarify it that way, yes. But it is rarely ever Explicitly stated that way. At least, not in the reports that I see.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[rollingrock1988]

That's exactly my point, summed up very nicely. They have lost themselves hard body. And that is something they need to rediscover.

Otherwise, as far as a business being run, you're right. I don't know anything about that. But as a Physics Major and Consummate Nerd, I know numbers.

Revenue is Up. Profit is Up. No stats, no mock up numbers, no Spin Doctor. From that alone, I see RIM being fine as things roll along.

You can show me all these other stats, numbers, reports, Blah blah blah. Bottom line, is that RIM's Bottom Line is just Dandy.

Now, don't get me wrong, it's no Apple with it's 3 figure Stock price, or Google with it's insane Stock price, but it is a solod stock.

The fact that one would choose to argue it either way shows relevance. Whether for or against, they obviously matter, or people wouldn't talk about them at all. I.e. Kyocera

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Yes for now they are doing well.. I think we need to wait for June 16th and by that time you and I can continue this discussion.

[newcollector]

After reading all the posts, here is my two cents worth. It sounds to me that RIM can't do anything right. If they come out with a new OS, they are belittled because it isn't perfect. If they come out with a better version of existing OS, then they are not on the cutting edge. If RIM has a plan for OS7 phones with upgraded hardware, then they should bring them out without the new OS. If they bring them out with the old OS, then people will say its the same old tired OS and RIM isn't on the cutting edge. RIM brings out the Playbook as an "incomplete" so they can compete in the tablet market, then people complain its half-baked and should have waited to have it "complete"; but if they don't bring it out in a timely fashion, then they are missing an opportunity and they are commiting suicide.


As an investor in RIM, I have been watching the analysts and the value of my stock. It seems to me that RIM is revamping itself to meet the changing enviornment. It may be rough for a while, but investing is not always about the immediate.

[1magine]

After reading all the posts, here is my two cents worth. It sounds to me that RIM can't do anything right. If they come out with a new OS, they are belittled because it isn't perfect. If they come out with a better version of existing OS, then they are not on the cutting edge. If RIM has a plan for OS7 phones with upgraded hardware, then they should bring them out without the new OS. If they bring them out with the old OS, then people will say its the same old tired OS and RIM isn't on the cutting edge. RIM brings out the Playbook as an "incomplete" so they can compete in the tablet market, then people complain its half-baked and should have waited to have it "complete"; but if they don't bring it out in a timely fashion, then they are missing an opportunity and they are commiting suicide.


As an investor in RIM, I have been watching the analysts and the value of my stock. It seems to me that RIM is revamping itself to meet the changing enviornment. It may be rough for a while, but investing is not always about the immediate.

That's just not true for the majority of CBers, analysts or others. Most of us were psyched for the 9500/9530. Then it released on OS .67 or some such nonsense. It reset itself several times a day, it reset itself if you used the camera, for the next year every OS release fixed something and broke something (in some cases 2-3 other things) else. The hardware had issues, floating screens, screens overheating etc... Around the same time there were issues with trackballs on other devices, and a myriad of software issues (you've heard of hybrids? They are a direct result of end users being so frustrated that they took it upon themselves to mix and match parts of different OSes to fix those things that broke from prior OSes.) And when the first leaks of the 2011 devices came out nearly a year ago, they were roundly applauded as finally addressing the major issues with RIM hardware. When the devices themselves started to leak and all the options were noted out there, again most were excited and analysts took RIM from a sell to a buy. But the leaked roadmaps led many to believe that these devices would announce Q1 2011 and release early in Q2 2011.

People like you remind me of a petulant teenager. "according to you I can't do anything right!" This is silly. It's June, 6 months into 2011. It has been a year since the last handheld was released. Longer for most other carriers. One device has been announced formally, and its release date has not been announced. RELIABLE reports indicate that not a single device has passed carrier testing and is headed into final mass production. Throwing the trash on the front lawn is not taking out the trash, I expect it in the can and at the curb.

[rollingrock1988]

If RIM were to get taken over, I would much prefer if webOS went on it. Screw android, ios or WinPho7. Web Os is SLEPT ON.

[scorpiodsu]

If RIM were to get taken over, I would much prefer if webOS went on it. Screw android, ios or WinPho7. Web Os is SLEPT ON.

Yeah webOS isn't bad at all. It just needs developer support and better hardware. I mean those pre devices are just hideous. Let HTC make a webOS device and I bet it would sell good. But since palm/HP is both hardware and software they only depend on themselves for both. It's hard making good software and hardware.

[howarmat]

When you clarify it that way, yes. But it is rarely ever Explicitly stated that way. At least, not in the reports that I see.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Gartner always reports by OS Platform and manufacture both. This is generally where the other sites get the data they write about

Table 1
Worldwide Mobile Terminal Sales to End Users in 1Q11 (Thousands of Units)

Table 2
Worldwide Smartphone Sales to End Users by Operating System in 1Q11 (Thousands of Units)

[Rootbrian]

interesting article. RIM should still make new devices.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[indy84]

First off the US carriers and I believe other places in the world have set limits on data. For fact the Iphone is the biggest data hog ever built. Look what it did to ATT ever since iphone came about data has been limited everywhere.

The BB tech compresses the data to almost a 1/3 of the size of the iphone. Therefore, when people really start to use data and the fees kick in, and by use i mean Netflix, pictures, files etc etc the movement of data has only begun. This ability is ace for the blackberry - if it is advertised correctly it will cause a stirr. people love to save money and in this case data...like your minutes.

Someone here made a comment that the iphone 5 and IOS will take over and andriod is slowing down and BB will die. i summarized what was said.

The IOS iphone has been the same device for the last 4.5 times it has been shown. its shape changes, it gets features that have existed for ages. Sjobs recently announced icloud - people are saying this Never existed before. it existed for months before apple even mentioned it. andriod has it bb has it.

the OS 5 has apparently all set for jail breakage - you think a OS so basic can be used in companies with sensitive data being moved about. Thats not going to happen.

I own shares in this company and would love to hear other owners thoughts on buy stock and futures etc
apple is steve jobs, when he goes the company will lose its icon and therefore become another firm. he is the salesman that makes it happen, and when is gone the cult will falter as all groups do when the leader dies. thats how it is.

mobility wise andriod is useless - everyone i know who has an andriod always has it plugged in, all features disabled, carry those mobile battery plug ins

My bb has wifi, bt, maps, 3g always on always going.

I believe if the next gen bb phones are QNX like the playbook its a sure thing to make a come back. the interface and overall flash ability of the pb blows away apple.

[1magine]

First off the US carriers and I believe other places in the world have set limits on data. For fact the Iphone is the biggest data hog ever built. Look what it did to ATT ever since iphone came about data has been limited everywhere.

The BB tech compresses the data to almost a 1/3 of the size of the iphone. Therefore, when people really start to use data and the fees kick in, and by use i mean Netflix, pictures, files etc etc the movement of data has only begun. This ability is ace for the blackberry - if it is advertised correctly it will cause a stirr. people love to save money and in this case data...like your minutes.

Someone here made a comment that the iphone 5 and IOS will take over and andriod is slowing down and BB will die. i summarized what was said.

The IOS iphone has been the same device for the last 4.5 times it has been shown. its shape changes, it gets features that have existed for ages. Sjobs recently announced icloud - people are saying this Never existed before. it existed for months before apple even mentioned it. andriod has it bb has it.

the OS 5 has apparently all set for jail breakage - you think a OS so basic can be used in companies with sensitive data being moved about. Thats not going to happen.

I own shares in this company and would love to hear other owners thoughts on buy stock and futures etc
apple is steve jobs, when he goes the company will lose its icon and therefore become another firm. he is the salesman that makes it happen, and when is gone the cult will falter as all groups do when the leader dies. thats how it is.

mobility wise andriod is useless - everyone i know who has an andriod always has it plugged in, all features disabled, carry those mobile battery plug ins

My bb has wifi, bt, maps, 3g always on always going.

I believe if the next gen bb phones are QNX like the playbook its a sure thing to make a come back. the interface and overall flash ability of the pb blows away apple.

First off - all your info w/ regard to data use and compression is wrong. Start by listening to the last CB podcast. Mostly all web data is already compressed. The addittional compression RIM adds is gimicky at best and at worst serves to do little but slow data down. The reason other devices use so much data is because its web browser and data throughput are sop much more efficient and faster than RIM's that peple actually use them.

You obviously have not used either an IOS device or an Android one. Its shocking that the folks who run and moderate this site use lots and lots of Apple and Android products and are pretty quick to at least admit RIM's shortcomings, but those who frequent these boards never seem to get it.

[indy84]

First off - all your info w/ regard to data use and compression is wrong. Start by listening to the last CB podcast. Mostly all web data is already compressed. The addittional compression RIM adds is gimicky at best and at worst serves to do little but slow data down. The reason other devices use so much data is because its web browser and data throughput are sop much more efficient and faster than RIM's that peple actually use them.

You obviously have not used either an IOS device or an Android one. Its shocking that the folks who run and moderate this site use lots and lots of Apple and Android products and are pretty quick to at least admit RIM's shortcomings, but those who frequent these boards never seem to get it.

So, these articles {some samples} about data usage on a bb must be a myth? right??

RIM co-CEO says video is big challenge to networks | Reuters

or

Has the iPhone delayed the Blackberry Bold's US debut? | ZDNet

or
RIM Welcomes AT&T&rsquo;s Tiered Data Pricing &ndash; Do You? - BerryReview


But I also love baseless vague words like "gimmicky" - current day browsers like the torch is the same overall abilities as the iphones so people are using it more now than ever.

I have owned the first iphone and returned it after realizing it had no copy paste, no mouse pointer, the interface was for a child and i couldnt do anything that steve jobs said i couldnt.

for android i said my friends, i didn't bestow my statement on the world. however, as we working people are mobile - i am unsure what you do - but for my consulting group android users they are constantly charging the battery every chance they get.

this is a blackberry rimm forum the discussion is with regards to company growth, and possibilities such as tech positives that lead to it.

the journalists have enough negative and down sides to point out you dont need my input on that they all already know.

further your random statement about the iphone and android and me never using either doesn't make sense because its completely random, and most of my words 1 are backed by written documentation, personal experience, factual numbers, and future possibilities for rimm as a company and the future of the new os with its abilities surpassing the IOS .

[1magine]

I'm sorry but yes. Thus is one of many myths with regard to BB. In theory the compression of the NOC should result in 1/3 less data usage. In theory my 3g should allow for 50 megs down. In real time usage, I will never see 50 down and already heavily compressed data will not be compressed further. The difference in data usage is de minimus. The big difference has to do with what the devices are used for. Streaming TV and movies, downloading games, video chat etc. I'm sorry. But its true. Just like truncated, non html, shortened emails is really not the BEST email available. But addressing that myth pulls the thread away from its focus.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[JHL78]

I'm sorry but yes. Thus is one of many myths with regard to BB. In theory the compression of the NOC should result in 1/3 less data usage. In theory my 3g should allow for 50 megs down. In real time usage, I will never see 50 down and already heavily compressed data will not be compressed further. The difference in data usage is de minimus. The big difference has to do with what the devices are used for. Streaming TV and movies, downloading games, video chat etc. I'm sorry. But its true. Just like truncated, non html, shortened emails is really not the BEST email available. But addressing that myth pulls the thread away from its focus.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I suggest you are the one to get your facts right.

Apple has no ability to compress data transmitted to their devices because they lack a source to compress this data. Apple (as of now) has not NOC where data passes through to their handhelds. RIM does. Their NOC compress and encrypts all data sent to their handhelds. In fact BlackBerry handhelds use on average 1/5th the data of an iPhone. Not only that, but iPhones appear to transmit data even if you don't use the data (iPhone Customer sues AT&T for Data Charges | ConnectApple.com). Apple relies on carrier transport methods, which use no compression whatsoever.

On BlackBerry OS 6+ devices, there is an additional Browsing Service Book (BlackBerry Internet Browsing Service 2) that has even more enhanced data transport with better compression to make WebKit rendering engine as fast and transmission efficient as possible.

Smaller countries that have 3G limitations have to suffer on 2.5G networks (EDGE). Because BlackBerry handhelds use compression, they are most efficient and most popular.

In regards to most of the web already being compressed, that is completely a false statement. Most of the web is plaintext, which is NOT compressed. Media compression varies depending on content types and image sizes. BlackBerry handhelds even have the ability to change image quality so when the NOC compresses this data, browsing experiences are even faster. Without a NOC one cannot fully take advantage of these abilities.

[indy84]

I suggest you are the one to get your facts right.

Apple has no ability to compress data transmitted to their devices because they lack a source to compress this data. Apple (as of now) has not NOC where data passes through to their handhelds. RIM does. Their NOC compress and encrypts all data sent to their handhelds. In fact BlackBerry handhelds use on average 1/5th the data of an iPhone. Not only that, but iPhones appear to transmit data even if you don't use the data (iPhone Customer sues AT&T for Data Charges | ConnectApple.com). Apple relies on carrier transport methods, which use no compression whatsoever.

On BlackBerry OS 6+ devices, there is an additional Browsing Service Book (BlackBerry Internet Browsing Service 2) that has even more enhanced data transport with better compression to make WebKit rendering engine as fast and transmission efficient as possible.

Smaller countries that have 3G limitations have to suffer on 2.5G networks (EDGE). Because BlackBerry handhelds use compression, they are most efficient and most popular.

In regards to most of the web already being compressed, that is completely a false statement. Most of the web is plaintext, which is NOT compressed. Media compression varies depending on content types and image sizes. BlackBerry handhelds even have the ability to change image quality so when the NOC compresses this data, browsing experiences are even faster. Without a NOC one cannot fully take advantage of these abilities.

Thank you kind Sir - words of wisdom. Well folks there you have it. Compression data backing on top of my articles. A promising tech ability with all this limited data bs going on.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com