[1magine]

RIM: Citi Says Hold, Missing The Nokia Opportunity - Tech Trader Daily - Barrons.com

"... I'm shocked, shocked I say to see gambling in this establishment..."

[rollingrock1988]

It'd be nice to hear some positive news about RIM. But what would REALLLYYY make things awesome, is if we heard some positive news FROM RIM.

But who am I kidding they wouldn't even know how to approach a press release.

[Gray]

I wish RIM would respond to this article with positive information. They're lack of response doesn't inspire confidence.

[rollingrock1988]

I wish RIM would respond to this article with positive information. They're lack of response doesn't inspire confidence.

They are too arrogant at a time when they need to be humble and forthright.

[TheArliss]

well just a question... im guessing the new devices are not ready yet.. what ever the hold up maybe be. Do you think rim would rather have an unfinished device on the market and deal with the backlash... (like they have with the playbook) or miss out on some market share and have a completed product?

[Invader3K]

It's clear they're not ready.

This comment is pretty concerning:

Specifically, Suva writes the Bold 9900, a BlackBerry OS7 device, could miss the back-to-school selling season, the other big cell phone opportunity along with Christmas, he writes. The prospect of delays with new OS 7 models is a concern that has been voiced by multiple analysts of late.

[1magine]

well just a question... im guessing the new devices are not ready yet.. what ever the hold up maybe be. Do you think rim would rather have an unfinished device on the market and deal with the backlash... (like they have with the playbook) or miss out on some market share and have a completed product?

It's a FALSE CHOICE. I'm actually pretty f-in tired of hearing that one. 1st - No one, including RIM puts out a perfect handset. RIM got slammed because since the release of the 9500/9530, many of their devices have released with software and/or hardware that was well below industry specifications and standards. As for the PB - one should not release a tablet w/o native e-mail and applications found on their handsets. It was a mistake. 2nd and just as important. Every other manufacturer is able to release devices on a reasonable time frame w/o major hardware and software issues. It is 6+ months in to 2011 and there are no new devices in mass production yet. 1 device annonced without a release date. 3rd - It's a Citi analyst not a crackberry forum visitor who downgraded the shares from Buy to hold.

[anthonybaker]

ok lets all calm down a bit. how long does it take from production line to carriers?
my guess is the 9900 will be out by the middle to end of july. maybe announcing something with or around the june 16 earnings call and then give them a month and a bit till end of july. sounds good to me

[leftypepper716]

I agree with you anthonybaker that the Bold 9900/9930 will be released around mid-July on all major carriers (maybe sooner? In Canada and UK?) I do think that the Bold 9900/9930 release will be VERY important for RIM's future...this device NEEDS to be available asap and needs to live up to the expectatations RIM has given it. Strong sales and good reviews and good word of mouth for the Bold 9900/9930 will help carry over for the Bold Touch, Torch2 and Curve 9350...If the Bold 9900/9930 delayed too long, it may hurt in the long run. IMO, this is a VERY pivotable year for RIM, either they are on the road back, or sliding down a slipprey slop they might not be able to recover from.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[papped]

Should have shipped with OS6 and current hardware... Less testing, faster release. Still think that was their single largest mistake.

[rollingrock1988]

Should have shipped with OS6 and current hardware... Less testing, faster release. Still think that was their single largest mistake.

If they shipped with OS6, people would freak out and they would never sell. Just sayin.

[1magine]

Anthony and lefty - I think you guys are dreaming. Seriously - I mean no offense but, do you read the articles or listen to the podcasts from this site? The earlest the 9900 will come will be August. Once they have carrier approval, and they don't, it takes 30-45 days worth of mass production to get sufficient handhelds on hand for opening day, (you will know this has happenned, when the advertising begins and a release date is announced) and another 5-7 days to work out distribution channels. This all assumes no slowdown or problems with the production lines.

Oh - but this and the impending release was not, and is not the point of the post. The point of the post was to show that you can not compete adequetly in this space and not release a device for the first 6-7 months of a year. The downgrade has little to do with what will be, as much as what has happenned. Nokia went down and RIM could have/should have stepped into that space by geting new handhelds to market. They haven't. So the prior grade change from sell to buy, which was based in-part on the presumption they would get new handhelds to market within the first 3 quarters was downgraded to hold.

Now- if they don't get some top rated devices out before September, I would think the majority of analysts who have downgraded them will revert back to 'sell.' If shares dip below $30, they could become a target for takeover.

[scorpiodsu]

Anthony and lefty - I think you guys are dreaming. Seriously - I mean no offense but, do you read the articles or listen to the podcasts from this site? The earlest the 9900 will come will be August. Once they have carrier approval, and they don't, it takes 30-45 days worth of mass production to get sufficient handhelds on hand for opening day, (you will know this has happenned, when the advertising begins and a release date is announced) and another 5-7 days to work out distribution channels. This all assumes no slowdown or problems with the production lines.

Agreed. The devices has to go through carrier testing and from all intents and purposes that seems like it hasn't been done yet. Once it goes through testing and gets carrier approval it will be a month to 45 days for production. So hopefully RIM can get these out soon at least for an Aug launch. I highly doubt July. That's a bit optimistic right there.

[papped]

If they shipped with OS6, people would freak out and they would never sell. Just sayin.

I dunno about that... OS6 doesn't exactly have a huge negative connotation and the Torch sold plenty well. The main drawback to the OS was the available hardware...

[1magine]

If they shipped with OS6, people would freak out and they would never sell. Just sayin.

Not if they announced in April and May and released in June with the understanding they would beupgraded to 6.1/7 over the summer.

It's business. You want to compete, you need to be in the game. What would you consider RIM not releasing a single device in 12 months?

[1magine]

Papped - agreed. The hardware on the 2011 devices have 2X the processing power of the Torch. And 3X the abilities. Imagine what it could do with OS6. Most would have been happy knowing that they had a 9900 or Monaco and they were getting OS7 this summer. RIM could have communicated weekly previews of what they were working on, and they would have filled up Nokia's space in a hurry.

[TheArliss]

Well there is a reason why the phones wont be ready... im sure its not by choice they're missing out on capitalizing on the market share.. 9780 was released in what Jan? or Dec? i believe the playbook took up and is taking alot of resources

[scorpiodsu]

i believe the playbook took up and is taking alot of resources

Therein lies the issue. RIM should have been working to get smartphones out the door and not a half baked tablet.

[papped]

Playbook QNX development has some translation to QNX on-phones, so it's not exactly a complete diversion. They aren't just rolling out a tablet product, they are adapting a new OS in general.

Not to mention unless you're sitting at RIM we can't know how much resources used on the PB are actually taking away from the phones. It could be that OS7 is more of an issue with the delays than the PB (which seem very likely).

[1magine]

Well there is a reason why the phones wont be ready... im sure its not by choice they're missing out on capitalizing on the market share.. 9780 was released in what Jan? or Dec? i believe the playbook took up and is taking alot of resources

Of course there are reasons. Good resons by RIM's account I'm certain of this. That's not the issue. I'm also certain RIM would have preferred the 2011 line-up was approved by carriers, past production and on store shelves in June. In fact, I don't believe I understood a single analyst, or poster on any site to claim that RIM was purposely holding back. That would be insane! The issue isn't why this has happenned - that exercise is for RIM's major shareholders, the BOD, executives and officers.

The point for analysts, other shareholders, BES admins, BB fans and those locked to BES, and everyone else is that is has happenned. A year since last release, 6+ months into a new year, Nokia gone, and other manufacturers slated to have dozens of dual core, 4G, larger screen, keyboard and keyboardless devices with front facing cameras and flash support on the same shelves at the same time RIM finally releases their first 2011 device. Its not good business, and its no longer crackberry fanatics noticing.

[rollingrock1988]

Not if they announced in April and May and released in June with the understanding they would beupgraded to 6.1/7 over the summer.

It's business. You want to compete, you need to be in the game. What would you consider RIM not releasing a single device in 12 months?

I don't think the carriers would have allowed for this, honestly. While they need to stay in the game, throwing a phone out with an OS that many people have disliked, is not a strategy.

They needed to get their phones and OS 7 out first and talk about QNX at the end of the year. What they have done has consistently been backwards. They are stretched thin and moving in a lot of different directions. They need to re-prioritize and re-appropriate their spending. They need to make a schedule and release devices continually over the year.

[otacon#AC]

RIM has missed the boat in several key areas. Price point for the Playbook is way off. $499 for a 7" tablet? ridiculous. With no native Email or Kindle app the PB only appeals to BB customers. Releasing the PB with no Kindle app is inexcusable. The fact it still doesn't have one is mind boggling. Why would a non BB user buy one? No hotspot capability on any of their smartphones. Go to Verizon's shop and uncheck "hotspot" the only smartphones to disappear are BlackBerries. No LTE BB until what...probably next summer? I've been with RIM for a lot of years but I'm done.

[1magine]

I don't think the carriers would have allowed for this, honestly. While they need to stay in the game, throwing a phone out with an OS that many people have disliked, is not a strategy.

They needed to get their phones and OS 7 out first and talk about QNX at the end of the year. What they have done has consistently been backwards. They are stretched thin and moving in a lot of different directions. They need to re-prioritize and re-appropriate their spending. They need to make a schedule and release devices continually over the year.

I'm not sure allot of people disliked OS6. If they did, they will not like OS7. It adds some functionality. But it is essentially the same OS as 6, and OS5 before it. These are not bottom up re-writes. They are just better overlays, (like themes) on the existing Java infrastructure. All the data will still flow through the BES, the screens will still be the same, the icons will have new looks, but OS7 will not be IOS, or Gingerbread with HTC sense overlayed. BBOS is the BBOS.

PS carriers don't care and many devices since 4.5 have released with the promise of magor upgrades to follow. Including many 5.0 that went to 6.0.

[papped]

Torch sales met expectations, I highly doubt Curve sales are poor on any carrier...

Would they refuse to sell either of those with a gpu and more than double the specs? Doubt it...

[CranBerry413]

This is not what any of us want to hear, however RIM not confirming this is what's making people squirm. Some of us want to know where they are at in the development cycle.

Personally, I think it's a software issue. They are bent on the idea of separating themselves from anything that was even touched by BBOS in anyways. This bothers me, because it seems that RIM is allowing a very small number of people (with large influence and lots of people paying attention to them) to influence how they maintain their OS.

Truth be told, BBOS will frustrate some users. However, it's an OS designed to send & receive messages, Phone calls, and E-mails in an incredibly efficient fashion. It Excels at those tasks.

I can understand those that have gripes, please don't misunderstand me, however, the fact that BBOS has been a self-sufficient Platform for this long (10 years according to CrackBerry Kevin on one of the last few Podcasts) is something to be commended, not vilified. It's the nature of technology to become outdated though, which is half the problem.

Some people think that RIM has been arrogant. And you know what, I agree. I think they have been arrogant for years. And I for one applaud, their arrogance. I have come to expect them, to expect great things from themselves, and not to stoop to the levels of other platforms to garner attention and users. This recent surge of them losing bits of their arrogance bothers me because it's not them. It's not their style. It's not RIM.

For them to get their swagger back, they need to remember that there is no Compromise. There is no need for it. People are fickle by nature, and will always, want things that are dictated to them. Just look at the Apple Convention, and the way they are like a cult following the speakers words as if they were Dogma. (Not taking shots, just an observation from one who shunned the Kool-Aid.)

Seriously RIM...I will continue to be Loyal, I will continue to use BlackBerry, and I will Continue to Condone the Arrogance. Please get your Swagger Back RIM...ASAP.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com