[prometheus]

� simply because it has been proven that Christianity is simply an ancient tale rooted in astrology that has been passed down throught the ages�.The teachings of Christianity actually comes from astrology. Yes its true

Killer�. Wow!.... WTF!! Are you talking about?? When you make this sort of ridiculous and baseless comment you had BETTER be prepared to defend your viewpoint.

You used the word SIPMLY twice. So, simply explain yourself. Please� I�m anxiously awaiting how you can SIMPLY explain to me how �Christianity actually comes from astrology� this should be good.

I am stunned at the complete lack of logic and reason presented in your ridiculous statement. You offered NOT ONE piece of evidence. You didn�t argue for your point, you didn�t offer one shred of proof. You made the most utterly baseless comment yet on this thread. I almost hope you get all offended and reply with something like, �don�t attack me.� I�m not attacking you I�m attacking a poorly formed and poorly expressed argument. What the **** did you expect to happen when you made the above statements. I would have thought higher of your reasoning abilities had you stated �the first president of the United States was simply the reincarnated Santa Claus and all Buddhist teachings are simply founded in the thoughts originated by Bobby, an 8th grader from Des Moines, Iowa�

Seriously � make your case. It should ACTUALLY be very SIMPLE. Since� �yes it�s true�. You said �it has been proven� OK, great � proven by whom? When? How was it proven? What exactly was proven? And if you reply with empty and vague words like, �it is commonly accepted�� or �as is well known�� or �reference works make many references�.� I will personally dissect every word of your reply with a thoughtful scalpel. When you say what you said you better put up some well-formed and well-presented arguments. Or simply and actually go away.

Oh, and by the way� don�t even try to make the case based on modern day so-called �Christians� � I don�t give a care what Catholics and Protestants do today. You stated that Christian �teachings� came from astrology. Defend that statement. I know (and you do also) that modern day Christianity �borrowed� many customs and practices from pagan, pre-Christian customs. They have bastardized and corrupted Christianity so much that it would be hardly recognizable to first-century Christians. You used the word �teachings� and there is only one �teacher� � that would a guy named Jesus. There is only one textbook for Christian �teachings� � that would be a little book called the bible. DON�T try to make your case by citing examples of people in this day and time doing all of the pagan, unchristian things they do today in the name of Jesus. You stated, �The teachings of Christianity actually comes from astrology�. TEACHINGS of Christianity are Jesus and the bible � so, make your case. Prove it. Actually and simply prove it. And when you fail utterly we all expect a retraction.

[squiddaddy]

I'm not religious but I lean pretty far right. You guys should come to the Darkside of right. It's actually a lot of fun. We get to have all the same political opinions and sleep in on Sunday mornings.

[prometheus]

Let me explain myself� I am NOT defending the religious right. I am defending Jesus and the bible. I completely and totally agree with most of Baloon, Cain, Killer and many others� comments about the negative aspects of �religion�. Most of Baloon�s, Cain�s, Killer�s (and I forget who else is in that camp) thoughts would put them in the category of anti-Christian by the Christian people.

Why would Jesus freaks hate Baloon�s views? Because they don�t wanna get called out? Why does someone like Cain get relegated to the arena of �anti-Christian? Because the Jesus freaks are intimidated by her mind. Why do Jesus Freaks pop up their heads, spew some out-of-context verse, then run and hide � because their arguments are not well-thought out, poorly expressed and are founded in religion and not true Christianity. They aren�t comfortable with their faith because they don�t understand the foundation of their faith. It�s not based on God, the bible, and Jesus, These Religious nuts have based their faith in RELIGION and teachings of men � and deep down they know it and don�t wanna admit to themselves. So, it�s a lot easier to say junk like, �I�ll pray for you� or something like that rather than actually engaging in a theological debate and ** gasp** change their minds when they find out that what they believe is not found in the bible or taught by Jesus. Religios nuts need to gain a true foundation for their faith and separate themselves from human teachings and corrupt religions.

I am a Christian. I feel like my name has been hijacked by Jesus freaks. I�m almost embarrassed to call myself Christian because I will be viewed by thoughtful and intelligent people as narrow-minded, hateful, and full of fear. I agree with the sentiment that �Religion� is a tool used by ugly people to control, exert influence, maintain and build power, scare, intimidate, and kill. But, �religious� practices are NOT what Jesus or the bible teaches. Have you ever been embarrassed by family and wish you didn�t share a common last name? Well, the family name may have a proud heritage and entitles you to an inheritance. Don�t you wish the ******** cousin would change his name? If he doesn�t and keeps dragging your name through the mud it would pi$$ you off and you�d have to defend yourself and separate yourself from your ******** cousin in people�s minds. Well, that�s what has happened to true Christians today. It�s my name � I love it � I�m proud of it�s heritage (Jesus) but my ******** cousin (nearly every �Christian� since about the 3rd century when Emperor Constantinople �Christianized� paganism and the council of Nicea that formed the basis for Catholic teachings) won�t change his name.

So, when people make accusations against the bible or Jesus� teachings I will get riled, and I will be defensive. Say whatever you want about my ******** cousin.

[prometheus]

I'm not religious but I lean pretty far right. You guys should come to the Darkside of right. It's actually a lot of fun. We get to have all the same political opinions and sleep in on Sunday mornings.

That's pretty funny. But, aren't you afraid of burning in the everlasting fires of he.ll for all eternity by a mean and spiteful God?

(tone was sarcasm, lest someone think I believe in he.ll as a place of torment.)

[squiddaddy]

According to my business partner I'm on the heII express and enjoying the ride.

but to answer your question, No I'm not scared. I have some Catholic friends that have promised to pray me out......

[prometheus]

"Promised to pray you out" ... That's classic.

Make sure they tip the concierge (sorry - I meant priest) - can't hurt.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[cain0013]

Does it really sound that far fetched? God is our father. A father has to be both loving and a disciplinarian. There are rules He sets forth for his children. Those of us that believe in God understand that the world would be in total chaos without rules to abide by. The Bible is the cornerstone for many people's beliefs and will continue to be. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Yes. It really does. I don't need to be convinced or saved and I don't need a set of outdated and contradictive rules to live by. I am not attacking anyones religion or beliefs. If someone is a Christian, Muslim, Buhdist etc. It makes no difference to me. Worship whomever and however you want. I'm sure the Bible will continue to be the cornerstone for many peoples beliefs, but not everyones. Golfnut, I think you and I need to agree to disagree on this. I don't think either of us are going to budge an inch on this subject. I will continue to respect you and your opinion.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[cain0013]

According to my business partner I'm on the heII express and enjoying the ride.

but to answer your question, No I'm not scared. I have some Catholic friends that have promised to pray me out......

That is so funny. I laughed so hard I almost dropped my BB.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[squiddaddy]

If that doesn't work my Mormon friends are putting on the magic underwear and being baptized in my place.

So I have a good chance of making a h*ll break.

[cain0013]

Let me explain myself� I am NOT defending the religious right. I am defending Jesus and the bible. I completely and totally agree with most of Baloon, Cain, Killer and many others� comments about the negative aspects of �religion�. Most of Baloon�s, Cain�s, Killer�s (and I forget who else is in that camp) thoughts would put them in the category of anti-Christian by the Christian people.

Why would Jesus freaks hate Baloon�s views? Because they don�t wanna get called out? Why does someone like Cain get relegated to the arena of �anti-Christian? Because the Jesus freaks are intimidated by her mind. Why do Jesus Freaks pop up their heads, spew some out-of-context verse, then run and hide � because their arguments are not well-thought out, poorly expressed and are founded in religion and not true Christianity. They aren�t comfortable with their faith because they don�t understand the foundation of their faith. It�s not based on God, the bible, and Jesus, These Religious nuts have based their faith in RELIGION and teachings of men � and deep down they know it and don�t wanna admit to themselves. So, it�s a lot easier to say junk like, �I�ll pray for you� or something like that rather than actually engaging in a theological debate and ** gasp** change their minds when they find out that what they believe is not found in the bible or taught by Jesus. Religios nuts need to gain a true foundation for their faith and separate themselves from human teachings and corrupt religions.

I am a Christian. I feel like my name has been hijacked by Jesus freaks. I�m almost embarrassed to call myself Christian because I will be viewed by thoughtful and intelligent people as narrow-minded, hateful, and full of fear. I agree with the sentiment that �Religion� is a tool used by ugly people to control, exert influence, maintain and build power, scare, intimidate, and kill. But, �religious� practices are NOT what Jesus or the bible teaches. Have you ever been embarrassed by family and wish you didn�t share a common last name? Well, the family name may have a proud heritage and entitles you to an inheritance. Don�t you wish the ******** cousin would change his name? If he doesn�t and keeps dragging your name through the mud it would pi$$ you off and you�d have to defend yourself and separate yourself from your ******** cousin in people�s minds. Well, that�s what has happened to true Christians today. It�s my name � I love it � I�m proud of it�s heritage (Jesus) but my ******** cousin (nearly every �Christian� since about the 3rd century when Emperor Constantinople �Christianized� paganism and the council of Nicea that formed the basis for Catholic teachings) won�t change his name.

So, when people make accusations against the bible or Jesus� teachings I will get riled, and I will be defensive. Say whatever you want about my ******** cousin.

That was very nicely stated. I always enjoy reading your comments, alex. I'm going to leave the cousin thing alone. Lol.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[cereal killer]

Hello Alex. I see you a very passionate about this subject. Thats good I'm glad. Let me preface this by saying that I'm not offended nor do I feel attacked by you. I understand where your coming from. Your faith i.e blind belief is coming into question. It's hard to be challenged outright with such strong statements that I have made. As you will see I stand behind these and will in fact show you that when you really begin to look into things, I mean really look into things you will see that you are being lied to. what I will say will probobly offend the hardcore believers. But I ask that one not just throw out what I'm saying but to take the time to actually research what I say and see if it does not turn up as fact. I deal in facts not in fables and fairy tales. So we will begin.

But wait, before I begin this little journey with you I must smoke a giant blunt so that I may tap into the universal unconsciosness that flows through all of us. So stand by Im going to get good and baked.

Ok I'm good. This is so indepth that I could not possibly put everything down on one post but I will start with the basic Jesus Christ issue. Was he real?

Lets start with Horus. Remember him though because we will come baqck to this dude at the ending. Horus is the Sun god of Egypt of around 3000 BC. Horus was born on December 25th of the virgin Isis-Meri. His birth was accompanied by a star in the east, whiich in turn, 3 kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born savior. At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher and at the age of 30 he was baptized by a figure known as Anup and began his ministryy. Horus had 12 disciples he traveled about with, performing miracles such as healing the sick. Horus was known by many gestural names such as The Truth, The Light, God's Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God, and many others. After being betrayed by Typhon, Horus was crucified and then buried for 3 days, and resurrected.

These attributes of Horus whether original or not seem to permeate many cultures of the world. Take a look.

1.Attis of Phyrigia born of the virgin Nana on December 25th, crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days was resurrected.

2.Krishna of India, born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming, performed miracles with his disciples and upon his death was resurrected.

3.Dionyysus of Greece was born of a virgin on December 25th was a traveling teacher who performed miracles such as turning water into wine. He was referred to as the "King of Kings," "God's Only Begotten Son," "The Alpha and Omega," and many others, and upon his death, he was resurrected.

4.Mithra of Persia, born of a Virgin on December 25th had 12 disciples and performed miracles, and upon his death was buried for 3 days and was resurrected. He was also referred to as "The Truth," "The Light," and many others.

the fact of the matter is there are numerous "saviors", from different periods, from all over the world, which subscribe to these general characteristics. But why? Why the virgin birth on Decembr 25th, why dead for 3 days and the inevitable resurrection, why 12 disciples or followers?

Have you ever thought of that Alex? Isn't that interesting? I find it very interesting.

When you begin to look into the whole birth of jesus Christ you will see it is purely astrological. first of all teh star in the east is Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, which on December 24th aligns with the 3 brightest stars in Orion's Belt. These 3 bright stars are called today what they were called in ancient times....The three kings. seeing a pateern here deveolping yet? The 3 Kings and the brightest star, Sirius, all point to the place of the sunrise on December 25th. Now this next point is very important! This is why the 3 kings "follow" the star in the east, in order to locate the sunrise -- the birth of the sun. Also known as the birth of Jesus. You see?

The most obvious of all the astrological symbolism around Jesus regards the 12 disciples. They are simply the 12 constellations of the Zodiac, which Jesus,being the sun, travels about with. The number 12 is all over the Bible and as scholar of the bible you will know that. this text has more to do with astrology than anything else.

Do I have to point out also that the story of Jesus is really northing more than plagerism of the egyptian god Horus? Inscribed about 3500 years ago on the walls of the Temple of Luxor (Egypt) are images of the enunciation, the immaculate conception, the birth, and the adoration of Horus. The images begin with Thaw announcing to the virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus, then Nef the holy ghost impregnating the virgin, and then the virgin birth and the adoration.

I don't know about what you have read but this is exactly the story of Jesus' miracle conception. Don't you find the literary similarities between the Egyptian religion and the Christian religion staggering Alex?

In closing, the character of Jesus is simply a literary and astrological hybrid. You would think that a guy who rose from the dead and ascended into heaven for all eyes to see and performed the wealth of miracles acclaimed to him would have made it into the historical record. It didn't! Because once the evidence is weighed, there are very high odds that the figure known as Jesus, did not even exist.

The Bible is a whole other thread bro. We can do that one later. But I really don't think we should go there unless you want to hear the real truth about it. I don't want to upset you or make you feel bad thats not my intention.

You asked me to make my case and prove it. I've made my case and proved it.

I hand the bong to you now Alex.

Cain have I utterly failed?

[prometheus]

Where do I start? Well, I appreciate your need for chemical influence. one of my posts a few days ago was absinthe induced. However, I don't have sufficient time for replying now. I will deconstruct every point when I have time. I need to make dinner feed the kiddies and prepare for guests this evening - I'll be tied up til around 9:00 at least (mountain time). So, be still your beatin heart - we'll get into it later.

And by the way, thank you very much for raising the bar - this is gettin' fun.

And Squid, magic underwear... you're a riot.

[squiddaddy]

My bad it's Holy Underwear.

I thought I had some but mine are just full of holes.

[cain0013]

Hello Alex. I see you a very passionate about this subject. Thats good I'm glad. Let me preface this by saying that I'm not offended nor do I feel attacked by you. I understand where your coming from. Your faith i.e blind belief is coming into question. It's hard to be challenged outright with such strong statements that I have made. As you will see I stand behind these and will in fact show you that when you really begin to look into things, I mean really look into things you will see that you are being lied to. what I will say will probobly offend the hardcore believers. But I ask that one not just throw out what I'm saying but to take the time to actually research what I say and see if it does not turn up as fact. I deal in facts not in fables and fairy tales. So we will begin.

But wait, before I begin this little journey with you I must smoke a giant blunt so that I may tap into the universal unconsciosness that flows through all of us. So stand by Im going to get good and baked.

Ok I'm good. This is so indepth that I could not possibly put everything down on one post but I will start with the basic Jesus Christ issue. Was he real?

Lets start with Horus. Remember him though because we will come baqck to this dude at the ending. Horus is the Sun god of Egypt of around 3000 BC. Horus was born on December 25th of the virgin Isis-Meri. His birth was accompanied by a star in the east, whiich in turn, 3 kings followed to locate and adorn the new-born savior. At the age of 12, he was a prodigal child teacher and at the age of 30 he was baptized by a figure known as Anup and began his ministryy. Horus had 12 disciples he traveled about with, performing miracles such as healing the sick. Horus was known by many gestural names such as The Truth, The Light, God's Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd, The Lamb of God, and many others. After being betrayed by Typhon, Horus was crucified and then buried for 3 days, and resurrected.

These attributes of Horus whether original or not seem to permeate many cultures of the world. Take a look.

1.Attis of Phyrigia born of the virgin Nana on December 25th, crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days was resurrected.

2.Krishna of India, born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming, performed miracles with his disciples and upon his death was resurrected.

3.Dionyysus of Greece was born of a virgin on December 25th was a traveling teacher who performed miracles such as turning water into wine. He was referred to as the "King of Kings," "God's Only Begotten Son," "The Alpha and Omega," and many others, and upon his death, he was resurrected.

4.Mithra of Persia, born of a Virgin on December 25th had 12 disciples and performed miracles, and upon his death was buried for 3 days and was resurrected. He was also referred to as "The Truth," "The Light," and many others.

the fact of the matter is there are numerous "saviors", from different periods, from all over the world, which subscribe to these general characteristics. But why? Why the virgin birth on Decembr 25th, why dead for 3 days and the inevitable resurrection, why 12 disciples or followers?

Have you ever thought of that Alex? Isn't that interesting? I find it very interesting.

When you begin to look into the whole birth of jesus Christ you will see it is purely astrological. first of all teh star in the east is Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky, which on December 24th aligns with the 3 brightest stars in Orion's Belt. These 3 bright stars are called today what they were called in ancient times....The three kings. seeing a pateern here deveolping yet? The 3 Kings and the brightest star, Sirius, all point to the place of the sunrise on December 25th. Now this next point is very important! This is why the 3 kings "follow" the star in the east, in order to locate the sunrise -- the birth of the sun. Also known as the birth of Jesus. You see?

The most obvious of all the astrological symbolism around Jesus regards the 12 disciples. They are simply the 12 constellations of the Zodiac, which Jesus,being the sun, travels about with. The number 12 is all over the Bible and as scholar of the bible you will know that. this text has more to do with astrology than anything else.

Do I have to point out also that the story of Jesus is really northing more than plagerism of the egyptian god Horus? Inscribed about 3500 years ago on the walls of the Temple of Luxor (Egypt) are images of the enunciation, the immaculate conception, the birth, and the adoration of Horus. The images begin with Thaw announcing to the virgin Isis that she will conceive Horus, then Nef the holy ghost impregnating the virgin, and then the virgin birth and the adoration.

I don't know about what you have read but this is exactly the story of Jesus' miracle conception. Don't you find the literary similarities between the Egyptian religion and the Christian religion staggering Alex?

In closing, the character of Jesus is simply a literary and astrological hybrid. You would think that a guy who rose from the dead and ascended into heaven for all eyes to see and performed the wealth of miracles acclaimed to him would have made it into the historical record. It didn't! Because once the evidence is weighed, there are very high odds that the figure known as Jesus, did not even exist.

The Bible is a whole other thread bro. We can do that one later. But I really don't think we should go there unless you want to hear the real truth about it. I don't want to upset you or make you feel bad thats not my intention.

You asked me to make my case and prove it. I've made my case and proved it.

I hand the bong to you now Alex.

Cain have I utterly failed?

Wow, killer. Now that's how you make a d@mn case. I thought alex was a little rough on you earlier, but I bet he's busy studying up on his Egyptian Theology and Astronomy right now.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[prometheus]

Killer, The wife is helping out with dinner I have a little time. So, I started reading your post closer. You raised a lot of different points and I want to form a cogent reply. All of your arguments are unoriginal and recycled and don't really bolster your argument that "teachings" of Christianity are based in astrology. So, while I'm typing up a decent response to issues i've heard before, please address the issue of "teachings" - Am I reading too much into the use of that word in your original post? Do you actually mean the words Jesus spoke?

[prometheus]

My bad it's Holy Underwear.

I thought I had some but mine are just full of holes.

What are you talking about? Seriously, I know you're joking, but I do have a question... I know Mormons do some waccky stuff. I heard about "baptism for the dead" or some such nonsence. But, is there actually some special clothing worn during this procedure. that would be too comical if there really was undergarments that ensured salvation. That puts a whole new twist on the phrase "holy cr.ap".

[cereal killer]

Killer, The wife is helping out with dinner I have a little time. So, I started reading your post closer. You raised a lot of different points and I want to form a cogent reply. All of your arguments are unoriginal and recycled and don't really bolster your argument that "teachings" of Christianity are based in astrology. So, while I'm typing up a decent response to issues i've heard before, please address the issue of "teachings" - Am I reading too much into the use of that word in your original post? Do you actually mean the words Jesus spoke?

yes your reading too much into them. I should clarify the word "teachings" I suppose.

By "teachings" I mean this whole (christian) fable you subscribe to.

Cain is just sexy. Nothing sexier than a woman with an opinion. Sorry got off topic. I hope she is not married I will go to he11 for coveting another mans wife. Jesus Christ I'm going to god_damnhe11 for saying that.

[squiddaddy]

What are you talking about? Seriously, I know you're joking, but I do have a question... I know Mormons do some waccky stuff. I heard about "baptism for the dead" or some such nonsence. But, is there actually some special clothing worn during this procedure. that would be too comical if there really was undergarments that ensured salvation. That puts a whole new twist on the phrase "holy cr.ap".

I don't make this stuff up.

I present you...... Sacred Undies.

[cereal killer]

ok alex. You made such a ridiculous comment by saying that what I posted did not bolster my comments about how Christianity is rooted in astrology. How you came to that conclusion I will never know. you mention that my points were unoriginal. I never said they were original. Facts are not unoriginal. They are common knowledge usually. With that said if you want some more astrological parallells to Christianity I will add to them with things that happen around December 25th. A day you celebrate as the birth of Jesus.

From the summer solstice to the winter solstice (in December mind you) the days become shorter and colder. From the perspective of the northern hemisphere the sun appears to move south and get smaller and more scarce. We all know that, anyway teh shortening of the days and the expiration of the crops when approaching the winter solstice symbolized the process of death to the ancients. It was the death of the sun. By December 22nd, the sun's demise was fully realized, for the sun, having moved south continually for 6 months, makes it to it's lowest point in the sky. Here a curious thing occurs. Read carefully. The ssun stops moving south, what it looks like atleast, for 3 days. During this 3 day pause the sun resides in the vicinity of the Southern Cross, or Crux, constellation and after this time on December 25th the sun moves 1 degree this time north foreshadowing longer days, warmth, and spring. so it was said, are you ready for this?: the sun died on the cross, was dead for 3 days, only to be resurrected or born again.

This is why Jesus and numerous other sun gods share the crucifixion, 3-day death, and resurrection concept. It is the sun's transition period before it shifts its direction back into the Northern Hemisphere, bringing spring, and thus salvation. Thats where the fable of Jesus came from. You see now?

Is all this sinking in yet? You have yet to prove anything except useless gospels and scripture which are meaningless. Heck I could write something up and dispute it all day long with you but without hard facts it doesn't mean anything. The things you will end up saying will not hold up. They can't. all your claims have no historical evidence at all. Zero, nada, zippo. Its all hot air.

But entertain me anyhow. We'll see who's arguement holds up.

I can enlighten you on the virgin Mary as well. That will blow your socks off. but maybe you should talk about her first. yes please tell me her story.

[cwadams70]

Someday the truth will be known and there are not enough chemicals or a bong big enough to make the pseudo-intellectual BS being spewed anything close to it. John 3:16- enough said.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[prometheus]

I don't make this stuff up.

I present you...... Sacred Undies.

The link you gave was only the image (pretty goofy looking) then I wiki'd "mormon temple garment" - you weren't kidding. wow - you really didn't make that up- amazing.

[cain0013]

The link you gave was only the image (pretty goofy looking) then I wiki'd "mormon temple garment" - you weren't kidding. wow - you really didn't make that up- amazing.

I'm going to call you out on this one, buddy. You said that you would "get riled up" if people talked trash about the bible or Jesus. How do you think Mormon's feel about you making fun of their sacred garments. Not cool.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[prometheus]

ok alex. You made such a ridiculous comment by saying that what I posted did not bolster my comments about how Christianity is rooted in astrology. How you came to that conclusion I will never know. you mention that my points were unoriginal. I never said they were original. Facts are not unoriginal. They are common knowledge usually. With that said if you want some more astrological parallells to Christianity I will add to them with things that happen around December 25th. A day you celebrate as the birth of Jesus.

I'm back. I was typing up my response and wanted to just reply to this part first. Sorry, I mis-spokoe when I said "unoriginal" I can see easily how you misunderstood me. I went back and re-read my post. My fault. I meant something totally different and the message was delivered poorly. What I meant.... the points you raised I have heard before. They aren't somehow new to my ears. You mentioned in your post that I would benefit from more research and study into this subject. I was stating that I have done extensive research in this subject and the concept of ancient pagan religions having man-god stories similar to the biblical account of Jesus are not facts I'm unfamiliar with. I agree, facts are neither "original" or nor "unoriginal". I meant that the facts you stated were not some sort of revelation to me. You didn't open my eyes and make me slap my forehead and say, "wow, I never knew that." My fault for poor communication.

Oh, and please don't ever assume what I do or do not do as part of my faith. I understand you meant no personal attack, but you stated, "dec 25, a day you celebrate the birth of Jesus." NO I DO NOT. more on that later. But I never have and never will celebrate Christmas.

I'm typing up my response but wanted to get that out there. Let's agree to move away from personal information and feelings of offense. You seem comfy with your beliefs and I'm comfy with mine. I lack grace and tact. so, understand I'm not trying to change your mind. I just enjoy theological debate and discourse. If I offend - it is not intentional. I want to keep the debate going and allow anyone reading this and following the discussion to see both viewpoints thoroughly and chime in with their two cents. So, let's agree to cool down on assuming any motives or beliefs of other people. The reason I bring this up - one something is stated it may sway someone's reception of my messages. If someone read your post stating I celebrate Christmas and they know Christmas to be of non-Christian origin then they think I'm a flake.

Give me a second to form a reply - but, please know this - Christmas ain't my thang.

[prometheus]

I'm going to call you out on this one, buddy. You said that you would "get riled up" if people talked trash about the bible or Jesus. How do you think Mormon's feel about you making fun of their sacred garments. Not cool.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I'm not making fun. I'm just saying you gotta find humor in that picture. To not find humor in that would be a humorless world. If a mormon were sitting right in front of me I'd chuckle and say, "you gotta be embarrased by this." There are MANY things that I have been embarrassed about from my congregation / family / (fill in the blank).

not making fun - good natured teasing. If anyone out there was offended, sorry - not my intent.

I was chuckling at Squid's comments. the "blasphemy" of him being OK with burning in hades and his mormon friends "saving" him by lending him their underwear - come on that's funny. I know NOTHING about this practice and the doctrines of that church. i'm just giggling at the term "sacred undies."

Cain - you should know a liitle about me by now that I respect sacred things and people's opinions. please understand the spirit in which this was offered - good natured teasing. Weren't you the one referencing ployester blends earlier? that cracked me up also.

[prometheus]

Someday the truth will be known and there are not enough chemicals or a bong big enough to make the pseudo-intellectual BS being spewed anything close to it. John 3:16- enough said.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Dude please - you're not helping to make christianity look less preachy by making posts like this. The OP obviously doesn't care what the bible says. For you to refer to John 3:16 is pointless (besides john 3:16 what bearing does that verse have on this??) seriously. why not get out a scrap of paper or a cocktail napkin and write "cereal killer is a bad person" then name the napkin "book of cwadams 3:16" and quote that -- it's just as meaningful to killer as quoting john 3:16. and the ominous and vague sounding "the truth will be known" is silly and fear-mongering. the truth is known. the writing of the bible was complete about 2000 years ago. and killer's posts are NOT pseudo-intellectual. he doesn't aspire to be intellectual. he's trying to be logical and persuasive.