10-18-08 11:15 AM
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  1. shwy's Avatar
    I think the pledge is just a waste of time. why say some sequence of words when you could be getting things done. sheesh. I agree with the OP, but I still say it.
    10-16-08 09:05 PM
  2. vinnie_dugan's Avatar
    Hipkik it is your first ammendment right not to say the pledge, yes. Do I agree with you? No. I think you are probably a young idealist who has yet to experience the world. When you get older you will come to appreciate the freedoms you have in this country.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-16-08 09:07 PM
  3. Hipkik's Avatar
    not to offend but why is it that if i do not say the pledge that it seems that i take the country for granted. yes i do complain more that you will here me praise the country especially in this day and age, but i am very thankful for what we do have. and if we are the country that is all about freedom, then why does it offend/erk some people that i choose to us my right of freedom to do something they don't like?
    10-16-08 09:11 PM
  4. ecooper11's Avatar
    Well I'm a HS student as well and my school doesn't force you to say the pledge. We have a few people who can't say it for religious reasons, but you are still asked to stop talking, stand up and be respectful during that time. Bottom line is, your teacher is 100% wrong, and you do have the right to do as you please.

    This is just my opinion:
    I am not very patriotic, but if you do look at our country compared to other areas of the world: Middle East, Asia, Africa, Cuba; where you probably wouldn't be permitted to be using a BlackBerry right now, saying the pledge is really not that big of a deal.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-16-08 09:11 PM
  5. Hipkik's Avatar
    ....I think you are probably a young idealist who has yet to experience the world...
    very true! idealist would be the word to describe me in a sense that i like to dream but i do think i think realistically when the situation calls
    ...you are still asked to stop talking, stand up and be respectful during that time.
    i usually stand and bow my head or sit and whisper a prayer

    I am not very patriotic, but if you do look at our country compared to other areas of the world: Middle East, Asia, Africa, Cuba; where you probably wouldn't be permitted to be using a BlackBerry right now, saying the pledge is really not that big of a deal.
    yes, i see what you mean
    Last edited by Hipkik; 10-16-08 at 09:22 PM.
    10-16-08 09:17 PM
  6. ecooper11's Avatar
    Well as long as you are respectful during that time, I really don't see why your teacher would have a problem with it. I strongly recommend you talk with someone higher than your teacher (guidance, principle, ect..) or to your parents about this before it gets out of hand.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-16-08 09:29 PM
  7. Hipkik's Avatar
    Well as long as you are respectful during that time, I really don't see why your teacher would have a problem with it. I strongly recommend you talk with someone higher than your teacher (guidance, principle, ect..) or to your parents about this before it gets out of hand.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    thank you, emailing my guidance counselor now...
    10-16-08 09:33 PM
  8. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    Patriotism and love of country are NOT defined by recitations of
    pledges and oaths of fidelity.

    They are defined by actions. If the OP elects not to say the pledge so be it.
    That is his right. What is important is what he does in terms of being a good
    and productive citizen.

    If the OP chooses not to say it, that is perfectly his right, or is that not one of
    those American freedoms everyone thinks he is disrespecting?
    Last edited by amazinglygraceless; 10-16-08 at 09:42 PM.
    10-16-08 09:39 PM
  9. Hi-Definition's Avatar
    You mentioned that you had never been asked to say the pledge before and THAT is a big part of the problem. You have no appreciation for what the pledge is even about.

    It doesn't say "I will be a robot and love everything that ever happens in my country and I will kill anyone who disagrees".

    It's a pledge which states that you take pride that this is your country, your republic--the beacon of freedom for the rest of the world.

    The American flag stands for freedom.
    Freedom for you and others to say some of the most ignorant stuff imaginable--without fear of being imprisioned, punished or put to death for saying it.

    The pledge is respect for all of those before you who died so that we might all have the many freedoms we enjoy today.

    Finally it means that however much we might all disagree with each other---when push comes to shove we stand as one united nation against anyone who might wish to take our freedom and liberty away. It is an acknowledgement of how truly blessed you are to live in the greatest experiment in democracy the world has ever seen.

    The good new is you are young and it's not too late. Read some books. Not the new-age "America got it all wrong" books", but some real books on the founding of this nation.

    There are many places to live in the world. The reason millions have flocked here was not because of our great internet and the NFL. It's because in America if you have a dream, you can live it.

    You should be respectful of the priviledge you have grown up with and taken for granted.
    Above is your entire post. I have italicized and underlined the part in your post that I want to comment on.

    Have you ever heard of the Patriot Act?

    What you said could have been taken for face value; period...no asteriks or disclaimers. But then came along George W. Bush and his erosion of; and about face towards the United States Constitution. In fact now; one doesn't even have to utter any words; or even perform any actions to be subject to incarceration, some form of dentention or punishment.

    That's all that I want to contribute to this thus far; irrespective of the topic of the Pledge of Allegiance topic.
    10-16-08 09:46 PM
  10. Hipkik's Avatar
    Patriotism and love of country are NOT defined by recitations of
    pledges and oaths of fidelity.

    They are defined by actions. If the OP elects not to say the pledge so be it.
    That is his right. What is important is what he does in terms of being a good
    and productive citizen.

    If the OP chooses not to say it, that is perfectly his right, or is that not one of
    those American freedoms everyone thinks he is disrespecting?
    nicely worded!
    ....What you said could have been taken for face value; period...no asteriks or disclaimers. But then came along George W. Bush and his erosion of; and about face towards the United States Constitution. In fact now; one doesn't even have to utter any words; or even perform any actions to be subject to incarceration, some form of dentention or punishment....
    maybe that was over my head, but i didn't understand that, please elaborate or explain?
    Last edited by Hipkik; 10-16-08 at 09:54 PM.
    10-16-08 09:51 PM
  11. stewdaddy's Avatar
    Patriotism and love of country are NOT defined by recitations of
    pledges and oaths of fidelity.

    They are defined by actions. If the OP elects not to say the pledge so be it.
    That is his right. What is important is what he does in terms of being a good
    and productive citizen.

    If the OP chooses not to say it, that is perfectly his right, or is that not one of
    those American freedoms everyone thinks he is disrespecting?
    I know my post specifically mentioned his right to free speech. He has every right to be a malcontent with no understanding or respect for "WHY" those freedoms are available to him.

    I have every right not to respect someone who at his very young age does not love, respect and appreciate his country and the freedoms he enjoys.

    His parents should have taught him better.
    10-17-08 12:23 AM
  12. Hi-Definition's Avatar
    I know my post specifically mentioned his right to free speech. He has every right to be a malcontent with no understanding or respect for "WHY" those freedoms are available to him.

    I have every right not to respect someone who at his very young age does not love, respect and appreciate his country and the freedoms he enjoys.

    His parents should have taught him better.
    You're right; you have the right to the conscious feeling/emotion of not respecting someone. For anyone to dispute that; they would be in the wrong.

    However I would also like to add that the truly profound comprehension of the appreciation for such deeply-rooted characteristics of struggle, sacrifice, bravery, etc.; are usually not understood at younger ages (let alone 'very young' ages). People should not be held on equal footing as your comprehension of things now that may be either/or/both stronger, weaker or stagnant from a few or many years ago.

    It's not about parents, teachers, siblings and so on. It's about what can be a crux and an aid to many developmental aspects in life; it's a part of our life cycle...it's that three letter word: a-g-e.
    Last edited by Hi-Definition; 10-17-08 at 12:44 AM.
    10-17-08 12:39 AM
  13. Rizzleman716's Avatar
    CAN ALL YOU SHUT THE **** UP? And stop attacking each other! Just because he isn't saying the damn pledge does not mean he isn't grateful for his rights! Who knows why he doesn't say it I don't! And I personally don't care! But what isn't right is the fact that his teacher is treating him with such disrespect no to grade any of his work! Can any of you comment on that?? All I'm trying to say is you don't have to verbalize everything that your thankful 4? Do you sit there and say mom hey thanks for giving birth to me! Or dad thanks for hooking up with mom that's one night. No none of us do

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-17-08 12:39 AM
  14. Benny's Avatar
    Haha!

    This is probably the only reason I like my high school, you don't have to say pledge of allegiance in the morning.

    Who cares? Just say the damn thing, you would be fine. Or at least pretend like you are singing. [or saying]

    Oh! Remember that whole "In God We Trust" thing... yeah
    Last edited by Benny; 10-17-08 at 12:44 AM.
    10-17-08 12:39 AM
  15. khelena13's Avatar
    I'm not reading the other 5 or 6 pages of replies on here, so excuse me if I say something that has already been said.

    No, you shouldn't be "forced" to say it.
    And you shouldn't be punished for not saying it.

    However...
    You're an ***** for making this into an issue.
    And you're reasoning for not wanting to say it is ridiculous.

    It seems to me that you just want to have something to complain about, something to start a commotion about.

    P.S. I really can't believe you can't say the word i d i o t on here. LOL>
    10-17-08 01:00 AM
  16. dingleberry_2621's Avatar
    Wow how well do everyone on here feel about themselves about bashing on a kid, a child, even if he is in high school and even if he does not say the pledge it should never give any adult ( and yes it's a shame!) the right to swear at a kid who's is protected by our right's, the sad part about it is that the ones that are doing the bashing is over looking at the main issue here. The fact that the teacher first is forcing him to do something that is illegal and demoralizing him as an american! We are taught in school that we have right's and no one should ever take them away, and here a child is being put to the stake because of his beliefs and the only thing people on here can say is you have no respect for your country, I'm sorry but that is the kettle calling the pot black! It's like the catholics telling other religions your going to **** if you don't believe in or follow the steps of the lord. we have that right to choose what, where, and how feel! I am proud to be here in america do I or would I say the pledge NO because of my beliefs and how I feel about our Gov.! Now would that ever change Yes but not until ALL MEN REGARDLESS RACE COLOR OR CREAD WILL BE TREATED AS EQUALS. Now my question to everyone who chooses to bash this person is why not try to understand why he chooses to not say the pledge and why he feels the way he does? Instead of bashing and belittling him!

    IT'S ONE THING TO COME AT AN ADULT LIKE THIS IT'S ANOTHER TO COME AT A CHILD, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF ADULTS ATTACKED YOUR CHILD FOR THEIR BELIEFS?
    people are so quick to act and respond with brute force when they are or a love one is not the ones who's being attack, and please don't give me the speech that he put this post up for people to reply because yes you are right but it does not give you the right to come at him the way you have been. there are other ways to come at a person to get your point across!

    Also as far as why "America" is having the problems that we are having I only have onething to say about that "Founded by crooks and thieves and will always be ran by crooks and thieves"!
    10-17-08 02:33 AM
  17. calidiva79's Avatar
    I'm a veteran and I can say with complete confidence that everyone who called this kid unpatriotic or ungrateful or anything of the like are a bunch of reactionary jerks....you guys throw history at him to justify your denouncement of him yet you forget that this country was founded on rebellion and structured by idealists.... I honestly think some of you could have responded in a more constructive manner if you didn't just spout off with a knee-**** response..

    Hipkik, I applaud you for standing up for yourself in the face of all this ugliness. I agree that you shouldn't have to say the pledge like some others in this thread. What I do encourage you to do though is to make an effort to change (even in some small way) what you see is wrong with the world you currently live in and try to make something positive out of all the negativity that gets thrown at us everyday. That can be as simple as volunteering in your community and even at your age becoming politically active in civic organizations. Its one thing to lament about a situation but another to actually do something about it and I encourage you to DO!

    You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, use that to make positive change
    10-17-08 03:00 AM
  18. Jedi_Blackberry's Avatar
    I'm a veteran and I can say with complete confidence that everyone who called this kid unpatriotic or ungrateful or anything of the like are a bunch of reactionary jerks....you guys throw history at him to justify your denouncement of him yet you forget that this country was founded on rebellion and structured by idealists.... I honestly think some of you could have responded in a more constructive manner if you didn't just spout off with a knee-**** response..

    Hipkik, I applaud you for standing up for yourself in the face of all this ugliness. I agree that you shouldn't have to say the pledge like some others in this thread. What I do encourage you to do though is to make an effort to change (even in some small way) what you see is wrong with the world you currently live in and try to make something positive out of all the negativity that gets thrown at us everyday. That can be as simple as volunteering in your community and even at your age becoming politically active in civic organizations. Its one thing to lament about a situation but another to actually do something about it and I encourage you to DO!

    You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, use that to make positive change

    I thought Hi-Def's responses were constructive! In fact even though not as eloquent as Hi-Def's, I thought mine were along with some others!
    10-17-08 08:02 AM
  19. Hipkik's Avatar
    ...He has every right to be a malcontent with no understanding or respect for "WHY" those freedoms are available to him.

    I have every right not to respect someone who at his very young age does not love, respect and appreciate his country and the freedoms he enjoys.

    His parents should have taught him better.
    why is it that i am malcontent? why do you think i don't understand or respect the freedoms? I have the right to free opinions as you but why is it that you think I don't understand? that's like going to some suicide bombers grave and thanking him for blowing up you office building because you hated your job...(idk)

    by the way my parents have nothing to do with this, so don't bring them into this. i am not home school and it is this FREE Education system im hearing so highly about....
    I'm a veteran and I can say with complete confidence that everyone who called this kid unpatriotic or ungrateful or anything of the like are a bunch of reactionary jerks....you guys throw history at him to justify your denouncement of him yet you forget that this country was founded on rebellion and structured by idealists.... I honestly think some of you could have responded in a more constructive manner if you didn't just spout off with a knee-**** response..

    Hipkik, I applaud you for standing up for yourself in the face of all this ugliness. I agree that you shouldn't have to say the pledge like some others in this thread. What I do encourage you to do though is to make an effort to change (even in some small way) what you see is wrong with the world you currently live in and try to make something positive out of all the negativity that gets thrown at us everyday. That can be as simple as volunteering in your community and even at your age becoming politically active in civic organizations. Its one thing to lament about a situation but another to actually do something about it and I encourage you to DO!

    You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, use that to make positive change
    thank you, i am currently a member of junior civitans and FBLA so believe me we do alot of community work..
    Last edited by Hipkik; 10-17-08 at 08:26 AM.
    10-17-08 08:23 AM
  20. beavercountyemt's Avatar
    Wow I can't believe barak obama is on these forums. Whey the **** would u not want to pledge allegiance to the flag? Do u really hate this free country that is giving u a free edjucation that much? So please tell us y this country is so bad? I'd love to know. El33tist thank you for your service and keeping this great country free. Next the op is gunna be complaining cause his family is gunna loose his house cause of bush or some crap. Grow up and enjoy what u have. And have fun in japan and don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

    I pledge allegiance to the flag
    Of the United States Of America
    And to the Republic
    For which it stands
    One Nation UNDER GOD
    Indivisible
    With Liberty and Justice for ALL

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-17-08 08:29 AM
  21. vinnie_dugan's Avatar
    Hipkik it is clear to me this is some sort of attention related stunt. If you truly understood the sacrifice countless men and women have paid I don't think you would act the same. Men and women died for you to use your right of freedom of speech to spit on them. Congratulations, you are an ungrateful spoiled kid.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    10-17-08 08:29 AM
  22. Jedi_Blackberry's Avatar
    why is it that i am malcontent? why do you think i don't understand or respect the freedoms? I have the right to free opinions as you but why is it that you think I don't understand? that's like going to some suicide bombers grave and thanking him for blowing up you office building because you hated your job...(idk)

    by the way my parents have nothing to do with this, so don't bring them into this. i am not home school and it is this FREE Education system im hearing so highly about....
    Well I don't know about that FREE education system. Heck I have to pay some ridculous "fees" for my children to go to public school. I remember when school was free except for lunch and field trips!!! Gosh those were the days....oh yeah kids didn't want to say the Pledge then too...but they were kids and didn't really have a grasp of self and country.
    10-17-08 08:35 AM
  23. DJManos's Avatar
    Hipkik it is clear to me this is some sort of attention related stunt. If you truly understood the sacrifice countless men and women have paid I don't think you would act the same. Men and women died for you to use your right of freedom of speech to spit on them. Congratulations, you are an ungrateful spoiled kid.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Bingo.....
    10-17-08 08:40 AM
  24. Hipkik's Avatar
    Wow I can't believe barak obama is on these forums.
    would it matter who i am?
    Whey the **** would u not want to pledge allegiance to the flag?
    because it is my right NOT to do so
    Do u really hate this free country that is giving u a free edjucation that much?
    no one said i hated the country, would you say that to a muslim with the american flag on their Jilbab who couldn't say the pledge for religious reasons?
    So please tell us y this country is so bad? I'd love to know.
    i never said it was bad, but if its as high on the latter as some put it then this wouldn't be an issue. this thread could of had one reply of "Its a FREE country you have the right to do what you want...CLOSED"
    El33tist thank you for your service and keeping this great country free.
    sorry for my dumbness but who has invaded us with intents to change our democracy?
    Next the op is gunna be complaining cause his family is gunna loose his house cause of bush or some crap.
    even if i did, it wouldn't concern you one bit because when you see injustice you turn and walk away.
    Grow up and enjoy what u have. And have fun in japan....
    i most certainly will
    10-17-08 08:49 AM
  25. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    I have every right not to respect someone who at his very young age does not love, respect and appreciate his country and the freedoms he enjoys.

    His parents should have taught him better.
    No you don't. You don't even know him. What you are doing is not the
    exercise of a right but instead a choice. A very judgmental and prejudiced one
    at that. Because his opinion does not square with yours you CHOOSE not
    to respect him. Yeah, you're a great American.

    And since you don't know the OP you have no idea what his parents did or
    did not teach him.
    10-17-08 08:50 AM
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