07-01-11 07:56 AM
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  1. ewilsonn's Avatar
    Says Cody Willard at MarketWatch.

    RIMM is (still) truly dead. - The Cody Word - MarketWatch

    Discuss!
    06-18-11 09:18 AM
  2. andyahs's Avatar
    Says Cody Willard at MarketWatch.

    RIMM is (still) truly dead. - The Cody Word - MarketWatch

    Discuss!
    Discuss? This is being beaten to death all over CB.
    DawgMan likes this.
    06-18-11 09:31 AM
  3. bobalooski's Avatar
    They need laser focus now more than ever.
    06-18-11 09:55 AM
  4. jebulls's Avatar
    It would be nice to hear what Kevin has to say about all this negative talk. Not hearing anything from him sure makes me feel that mayb RIM is dead in the water! Iphone 5 is looking better and better!
    06-18-11 10:06 AM
  5. andyahs's Avatar
    It would be nice to hear what Kevin has to say about all this negative talk. Not hearing anything from him sure makes me feel that mayb RIM is dead in the water! Iphone 5 is looking better and better!
    Kevin spoke yesterday.

    http://crackberry.com/crackberry-liv...live-right-now
    06-18-11 10:08 AM
  6. Ronindan's Avatar
    RIM is not dead but they are in trouble. Depending on what they they will either make reassert their dominace in the market or have have a slow decline just like Nokia or worse suffer the same fate as Palm.

    This message is approved by my transformer
    06-18-11 10:10 AM
  7. jebulls's Avatar
    Oh my bad, I missed it! What was said?
    06-18-11 10:24 AM
  8. Invader3K's Avatar
    Can we stop with the posting of such hyperbolic and useless topics, please? Yeah, a huge company is turning a profit (just less profit than previously) and has no debt. Clearly they're "dead in the water."

    It's a good thing most smart investors don't base their decisions on what any random schmuck posts on a message board or blog site. Maybe RIMM is not a good buy right now, but that doesn't mean they will never turn around or won't be a value in the future.

    With all of the histrionics posted on Crackberry, you would think RIM is going to be closing their doors next week. Last I checked, they have new phones coming out in the next couple months. Maybe once that happens we can have a short moratorium on RIM's funeral arrangements.
    06-18-11 10:29 AM
  9. the_sleuth's Avatar
    RIM will survive for now but it has a very challenging turn around ahead. Once a tech company starts having market share declines in its home market (ie. NA market), gross margin compression and declining profitability it is difficult to turn around but not impossible. Nevertheless, RIM has brought this upon themselves due to incompetent execution. RIM has made the right investments (Certicom, QNX, TAT, and so forth) over the years and has great technology. However, constant delays in product launches does not give me confidence that this management team can turnaround RIM. I think iOS market share has plateaued. I see Android platform as the biggest threat. Motorola's Droid Pro is a compelling product for the enterprise market.
    Hardware makers with Android OS are rapidly flooding the emerging markets which cheap handsets. Smartphones might become a commodity in not too distant future. For this reason, HTC, Samsung, Motorola et al are launching "superphones" with dual-core, 4G, and so forth.

    As a user of Storm 9530, I am currently satisfied with my phone although it only became usable after several beta OS updates. RIM makes great quality handsets but software is not their strong suit (constant software glitches as written in the various forums here).

    I have another 8 months on my 3yr Telus contract and will wait for a QNX phone.

    I won't jump ship yet as many have to android. I want to see what RIM can do with QNX in a touchscreen Monza phone.

    An interesting poll would be how many BB loyalists will upgrade to OS 7 phones this fall or wait for QNX phones in Q3 or Q4 2012?
    06-18-11 11:07 AM
  10. jebulls's Avatar
    RIM will survive for now but it has a very challenging turn around ahead. Once a tech company starts having market share declines in its home market (ie. NA market), gross margin compression and declining profitability it is difficult to turn around but not impossible. Nevertheless, RIM has brought this upon themselves due to incompetent execution. RIM has made the right investments (Certicom, QNX, TAT, and so forth) over the years and has great technology. However, constant delays in product launches does not give me confidence that this management team can turnaround RIM. I think iOS market share has plateaued. I see Android platform as the biggest threat. Motorola's Droid Pro is a compelling product for the enterprise market.
    Hardware makers with Android OS are rapidly flooding the emerging markets which cheap handsets. Smartphones might become a commodity in not too distant future. For this reason, HTC, Samsung, Motorola et al are launching "superphones" with dual-core, 4G, and so forth.

    As a user of Storm 9530, I am currently satisfied with my phone although it only became usable after several beta OS updates. RIM makes great quality handsets but software is not their strong suit (constant software glitches as written in the various forums here).

    I have another 8 months on my 3yr Telus contract and will wait for a QNX phone.

    I won't jump ship yet as many have to android. I want to see what RIM can do with QNX in a touchscreen Monza phone.

    An interesting poll would be how many BB loyalists will upgrade to OS 7 phones this fall or wait for QNX phones in Q3 or Q4 2012?
    I consider myself a loyalist and if the OS 7 device is not worthy I am going to jump platforms! I don't think RIM should be forcing us into using 3 year old technology! I would come back if QNX phones actually happen or if they are as great as everyone has already talked them up. Which I find weird because we have absolutely no idea what these phones will do?
    06-18-11 11:21 AM
  11. louzer's Avatar
    An interesting poll would be how many BB loyalists will upgrade to OS 7 phones this fall or wait for QNX phones in Q3 or Q4 2012?
    This raises an interesting point. Many people complain about RIM not disclosing a road map to give people confidence. A road map can be both a good and a bad thing. It's nice to know what's coming so that you can plan your upgrades (from a consumer perspective). But it also tips your hand to the competition.

    With the current situation that RIM seems to be in, they need to have a new product launch sometime soon and it has to be successful and not lack-luster in the eyes of investors. RIM has indicated that their new phones will be running OS 7 (6.1) and that QNX phones will be available sometime in '12. RIM needs to make a loud statement that the hardware for the new line of phones will be compatible with both the new OS 7 as well as being more than capable of running the new QNX when it releases.

    If people have the impression that the new phones will be OS 7-only, then where's the motivation to invest when these phones might be obsolete within the year.

    With the diminishing interest in RIM phones by the average (non-corporate) consumer, anything that might make a potential customer pause when considering a RIM phone vs iOS or Android is a mistake. Let the world know that the new phones will become more feature-rich over time and not need to be replaced (like most Android phones) in the near future.
    06-18-11 11:50 AM
  12. CrackBerry Kevin's Avatar
    Hey Guys,

    Here's the podcast re: the earnings call.

    http://crackberry.com/crackberry-pod...r-here-we-hope

    It's definitely a bit doomy and gloomy, but honest enough. I still have faith.

    RIM has the capabilities from a tech and platform standpoint now.. they just need to get it together, and put out some products so AWESOME they make people forget about this negative sentiment people are having. Won't be easy, but I think they can do it.
    howarmat and Snick Snack like this.
    06-18-11 12:25 PM
  13. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Hey Guys,

    Here's the podcast re: the earnings call.

    CrackBerry Podcast Episode 071: It can only get better from here... we hope! | CrackBerry.com

    It's definitely a bit doomy and gloomy, but honest enough. I still have faith.

    RIM has the capabilities from a tech and platform standpoint now.. they just need to get it together, and put out some products so AWESOME they make people forget about this negative sentiment people are having. Won't be easy, but I think they can do it.
    If you've read any of my posts, you know that I've been a pretty staunch supporter of RIM. I've been very confident that they know what they need to do and are now on the path to doing it. I agree that they have the capabilities and the potential technologically, but their ability to execute is coming increasingly in question, as evidenced by delays in the delivery of virtually everything at a time when they can afford nothing short of perfection. And when I see quotes like "We work very closely together, and I don't know where all these things are coming from," from Lazaridis in response to the questions about the dual-CEO executive structure , that screams to me that these two guys are a little oblivious to the depth of the situation they're in. There are too many fundamental issues that they just don't seem to be getting that are plain as day to the rest of the world, and that's a big part of the reason for the increasing lack of confidence among investors and analysts that they can get the company going back in the right direction.

    Personally I love BlackBerry phones; I don't see myself getting anything else in the foreseeable future, and that includes however long I have to wait for OS7 phones and later the QNX handhelds. There's just nothing else out there that looks more appealing or works as well for me. Nonetheless, after what I've been hearing and reading the last few days, I have serious concerns for the future of RIM, particularly the wisdom, vision and capabilities of their executive leadership. I'm sure the company will be around for quite awhile in some form, but I see them being less and less significant and more and more the target of a buyout, which itself scares me even more than the current situation they're in.
    06-18-11 12:50 PM
  14. K Bear's Avatar
    Hey Guys,

    Here's the podcast re: the earnings call.

    http://crackberry.com/crackberry-pod...r-here-we-hope

    It's definitely a bit doomy and gloomy, but honest enough. I still have faith.

    RIM has the capabilities from a tech and platform standpoint now.. they just need to get it together, and put out some products so AWESOME they make people forget about this negative sentiment people are having. Won't be easy, but I think they can do it.
    If the company can get back to their roots, there's hope. Right now, they are so far behind in technology that the specs for their upcoming devices ate still 2-3 cycles behind the.competition. As I've said before, with all the talent at RIM'S disposal, it's a damn shame that the company is lagging as badly as it is. If anything, the first true step to remedy this is to get rid of read weight and that should start from the top, not the bottom.
    Laura Knotek and howarmat like this.
    06-18-11 12:56 PM
  15. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    If you've read any of my posts, you know that I've been a pretty staunch supporter of RIM. I've been very confident that they know what they need to do and are now on the path to doing it. I agree that they have the capabilities and the potential technologically, but their ability to execute is coming increasingly in question, as evidenced by delays in the delivery of virtually everything at a time when they can afford nothing short of perfection. And when I see quotes like "We work very closely together, and I don't know where all these things are coming from," from Lazaridis in response to the questions about the dual-CEO executive structure , that screams to me that these two guys are a little oblivious to the depth of the situation they're in. There are too many fundamental issues that they just don't seem to be getting that are plain as day to the rest of the world, and that's a big part of the reason for the increasing lack of confidence among investors and analysts that they can get the company going back in the right direction.
    The bolded goes along with a half-baked theory I have knocking around in my head (I've not yet bothered to really think about it). When I first saw the mention of layoffs looming to cut the budget and trim the fat, I couldn't help but read into it a bit deeper and see it as a sign that RIM knows they need to improve their ability to produce. I'm sure RIM has developers working for them who have been there for years, and no matter how much you try to change their performance, they're pretty much set in their ways and it won't ever change entirely. I won't begrudge RIM for saying they're going to be laying people off under the premise they're trying to cut costs, but I think it's more they're looking to re-staff with workers and managers who will get the job done.
    06-18-11 01:01 PM
  16. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    If the company can get back to their roots, there's hope.
    I would disagree. I think the problem is that they're rooted too deep. They need to pull those roots and move on.
    06-18-11 01:03 PM
  17. 1812dave's Avatar
    Hey Guys,

    Here's the podcast re: the earnings call.

    CrackBerry Podcast Episode 071: It can only get better from here... we hope! | CrackBerry.com

    It's definitely a bit doomy and gloomy, but honest enough. I still have faith.

    RIM has the capabilities from a tech and platform standpoint now.. they just need to get it together, and put out some products so AWESOME they make people forget about this negative sentiment people are having. Won't be easy, but I think they can do it.
    Kevin I respect you immensely (especially for your HONEST opinions given in your exhaustive review of the PB). Having said that, I can't imagine that you would be as pessimistic as someone such as myself, who's been burned by a less than pleasant experience with BB. I pretty much feel the same as the countless pundits and investors--that RIM is falling down a rabbit hole and there's no way for them to clamor back up. I'm no longer as excited about QNX being the "savior" that I expected when it was first announced. The glacial speed at which RIM brings out any noteworthy, radically new phones is beyond comprehension. When was the last model they made that had any great impact?? The Storm was supposed to be awesome but was met with derision by consumers and reviewers. The Storm 2 is a bit better, but hardly set the world on fire. And then the Torch. Another "MEH".

    And now the word is that they are laying off employees. That's yet another bad sign, amongst so many others.

    I don't feel as my pessimism is misplaced. I may be a curmudgeon, but even curmudgeons get it right sometime.
    Last edited by dave1812; 06-18-11 at 01:09 PM.
    Darlaten and kevinnugent like this.
    06-18-11 01:07 PM
  18. Laura Knotek's Avatar

    And now the word is that they are laying off employees. That's yet another bad sign, amongst so many others.

    I don't feel as my pessimism is misplaced. I may be a curmudgeon, but even curmudgeons get it right sometime.
    Layoffs could be good, if they are getting rid of the dead weight employees who are stuck in the past with old ideas that do not work.

    I have not seen which departments are affected, but if they dump a bunch of marketing people (who clearly have demonstrated no ability to market) and replace them with new R&D people, that might be a good thing.
    06-18-11 01:13 PM
  19. K Bear's Avatar
    Layoffs could be good, if they are getting rid of the dead weight employees who are stuck in the past with old ideas that do not work.

    I have not seen which departments are affected, but if they dump a bunch of marketing people (who clearly have demonstrated no ability to market) and replace them with new R&D people, that might be a good thing.
    What they need to do is cut the fat at the top. Mike and Jim need to go. If RIM can't make positive steps forward, RIM won't be the next Nokia, they'll be the next Danger.
    kevinnugent and trsbbs like this.
    06-18-11 02:17 PM
  20. dooodads's Avatar
    Layoffs could be good, if they are getting rid of the dead weight employees who are stuck in the past with old ideas that do not work.
    I think I know a guy or two like that...too bad they can't disappear
    06-18-11 02:34 PM
  21. Jared DiPane's Avatar
    Layoffs are not always bad.

    Many companies do them and reduce redundancies and then figure out where they truly need more help, and often times it helps lead to further innovation.

    Push the envelope of what the employees can do, and allow them to think outside their normal role.
    06-18-11 02:49 PM
  22. mjs416's Avatar
    When I first saw the mention of layoffs looming to cut the budget and trim the fat, I couldn't help but read into it a bit deeper and see it as a sign that RIM knows they need to improve their ability to produce. I'm sure RIM has developers working for them who have been there for years, and no matter how much you try to change their performance, they're pretty much set in their ways and it won't ever change entirely. I won't begrudge RIM for saying they're going to be laying people off under the premise they're trying to cut costs, but I think it's more they're looking to re-staff with workers and managers who will get the job done.
    When a company starts believing a reduction in force will save the company - they are almost most definitely beyond repair since they most likely have tried everything else.

    Im sure RIM has some poor performing employees - every company does. But a massive layoff is more indicative of RIM trying to improve their bottom line through staff reductions. I havent seen how many employees will get the axe but if we are talking a 10% reduction, for example, RIM has run out of ideas.
    06-18-11 03:04 PM
  23. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    Says Cody Willard at MarketWatch.

    RIMM is (still) truly dead. - The Cody Word - MarketWatch

    Discuss!
    They just don't get it. They totally ignore the consumer. If they want to turn things around they can start by making my Gmail experience on the iphone as sweet as it is on my iphone or Android phone.

    I find that I am using my blackberry less and less to the point that I could drop it all together. And I have been with Blackberry since day one.

    Come 5 pm, when the work day is over and on weekends, I pop the SIM card out of my Torch into my Google Nexus S.

    Android is not perfect by any means. Battery life is abysmal and this OS is prone to freezing and requires re-boots quite often. "Blah blah is not responding, wait or force close?".
    06-18-11 03:06 PM
  24. K Bear's Avatar

    Android is not perfect by any means. Battery life is abysmal and this OS is prone to freezing and requires re-boots quite often. "Blah blah is not responding, wait or force close?".
    That is not an OS issue, that is an app issue.
    06-18-11 03:48 PM
  25. sleepngbear's Avatar
    I would have to mostly agree with both of these ...

    The bolded goes along with a half-baked theory I have knocking around in my head (I've not yet bothered to really think about it). When I first saw the mention of layoffs looming to cut the budget and trim the fat, I couldn't help but read into it a bit deeper and see it as a sign that RIM knows they need to improve their ability to produce. I'm sure RIM has developers working for them who have been there for years, and no matter how much you try to change their performance, they're pretty much set in their ways and it won't ever change entirely. I won't begrudge RIM for saying they're going to be laying people off under the premise they're trying to cut costs, but I think it's more they're looking to re-staff with workers and managers who will get the job done.
    There really are two sides to trimming the fat, at least -- or maybe especially -- in this situation. RIM needs to improve their ability to produce, but equally importantly, they also need to demonstrate to investors that they know they need to operate more efficiently, because in the end it's all about maximizing profits. Leaning out the operation is one way to do that, so long as they don't throw out any babies with the bath water. One of the first concerns I had when I saw the plans to reduce head count and focus more on initiatives that will improve profitability was how it will affect coming enhancements and improvements to the PlayBook. I've been very happy with mine and patiently waiting for features that are important to me, knowing that they'll probably be coming in a future release. Hopefully they realize that that kind of support is absolutely necessary for such a new product as the PlayBook if they have any hopes to sustain sales and a meaningful presence in the tablet market. That's just one example of those aforementioned babies.

    I would disagree. I think the problem is that they're rooted too deep. They need to pull those roots and move on.
    Kind of agree with this, too. Until recently they absolutely were too deeply tied to their roots, but I think they're starting to see the light and think more outside the little box. Acquisitions of TAT and QNX strongly suggest this for starters, at least that they are aware that they need to change their thinking.

    Again, personally I am very satisfied with my BB's and don't really want for much more than some tweaking and improved performance. But I am not everybody, and obviously there's a bit more of a demand for good full-featured touch-screen-only handheld devices than I might have realized. I think RIM's braintrust also realizes that now; although the little light bulb came on a few years too late, I think it has finally come on, and that's pretty much what the QNX handhelds will be all about.

    My thoughts on the delays are that they had a couple of shifts in strategy since their last product release:
    1 - The originally planned next-gen phones were probably lower spec than what's actually coming, and they had to do a bit of redesigning and retooling to bring out that higher-end hardware. Hence a longer than desired gap between product releases. My guess would be that the desirability of higher-spec hardware outweighed the undesirability of the delays that would cause, and under the circumstances I'm inclined to agree with that.
    2 - There's an increased focus and importance on the reusability of software components in OS7. This has been publicly acknowledged by either Laz or Sillyballs at some point when they first introduced the Highlander concept; specifically, they wanted more of OS7 to be reusable in QNX. While this also has caused delays in the OS7 devices, I think in the long run it will help speed up the development and release of the QNX devices, which is why that's one timeline that they haven't backed away from (yet).
    Blacklatino likes this.
    06-18-11 04:24 PM
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