[shchasm]

You can't spend that much money and expect that you are saving us from a complete economic collapse. If you think that then you are crazy! Thats like me saying I am in debt 1,000 and then spending 10,000 more so that I can be financially sound. That is just crazy. I would be worse off then I was to begin with. I understand some has to be spent but that much is out of hand. And I don't think that they should cut social security. I do however think that they should rework social security so that what I (and a whole lot of other people) am paying into will actually receive one day. I also think that quite a few other things need to be reworked so that they are more effectively run financially. I also think that they could cut out all the earmarks and overspending. There is a start. Why spend money on things that don't really matter at the moment? That is like me being in debt and then going shopping for shoes when I already have 100 pairs. That is just nuts. There is no common sense with that. You need to start somewhere to get out of debt and to become financially stable. And yeah the governments budget and deficit are on a bigger scale but same concept.

This doesn't even come close to a proper representation to what's going on.

[grneyedbbprincess]

Question to all... Would you loan a friend/family member hundreds of your hard earned cash if all they were going to do was spend it in ways that seem outlandish? So why should we have to support a government that we elect, trusting what they promise, that turns around and does what they want. We don't get to vote on bills directly and do want to go to your computer one day to get online and see that it isn't working bc the goverment thought that what you were doing wasn't kosher to them. I don't see how my $90 helps them every two weeks but I'm sure that it would help me out since I live paycheck to paycheck. I don't mind state taxes but this federal taxes and IRS stuff, I really don't wanna be a part of.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[MissJennell#IM]

That's a poor analogy. They (the FED)are not spending money on tangible "things" they are spending money on debt instruments that eventually will provide a greater return than they are currently yielding (will be worth more later than they are now), and they are lending money to institutions with the promise of being repaid at a very good rate of return. Obviously there is a lot more to that but considering the OP I wanted to keep my post simplistic.
I understand that the popular opinion given to us through the media thinks this is a bad thing. But I ask you: where would we be right now if the FED did not take these steps?

For one they are bailing out companies (some that are going to file bankruptcy anyways) with no limitations on what they can spend the money on. We are just giving it to them. Hence the AIG fiasco. If I were to try and get a loan (what we have given these companies) from a bank for my business then I would have to take in a well thought out and drawn up business plan. Why is it different if we are loaning these companies money and bailing them out? They should have had to come up with a new business plan. Because the one they were using obviously has not worked for them! And the government should have put limitations on what the companies could spend the money on. The companies should also have to have someone come in and restructure it so it works a little better. There are people who do that. It just seems to me that they should have a better handle on their money. Oh wait your money and mine!!! They also could have taken all the earmarks out of the bills and packages that have been passed. For example $200,000 to california for tattoo removal? Yeah because we the people really need that!! $500,000 to hawaii for gnat research? Yeah another important issue at the moment!! Its common sense. Why spend money on the things that are not issues at hand. There is a start to getting us out of debt and not putting us more in debt. Those are just two examples of ridiculous spending of your hard earned money. You might be okay with that kind of spending with your money but I for one am not.

[shchasm]

Question to all... Would you loan a friend/family member hundreds of your hard earned cash if all they were going to do was spend it in ways that seem outlandish? So why should we have to support a government that we elect, trusting what they promise, that turns around and does what they want. We don't get to vote on bills directly and do want to go to your computer one day to get online and see that it isn't working bc the goverment thought that what you were doing wasn't kosher to them. I don't see how my $90 helps them every two weeks but I'm sure that it would help me out since I live paycheck to paycheck. I don't mind state taxes but this federal taxes and IRS stuff, I really don't wanna be a part of.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

$90 dollars? Every two weeks? I'm sorry but if your financial stability is hinged on $90 bucks every two weeks then your doing something seriously wrong. P.S. You get almost all that back.

More to the point- I'm sure you don't want to be apart of the IRS stuff and federal taxes. However; I'm sure you don't mind living under the umbrella of protections and services the federal government provides. (the state you live in, accepting the money to save their ***es, feels the same way).

[grneyedbbprincess]

Wouldn't it be great if we could have a trillion + dollar deficit and never have to answer to anybody for it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[shchasm]

the worst part is that CHINA is buying up our debt...that's the sole reason we have no leverage against them in world politics. taxes may have to go up, but the gov't will also have to spend MUCH less...both of those options are inevitable.

It would be scarier if these countries stopped lending us money. We have the biggest economy in the world-they need our buisness.

[grneyedbbprincess]

Wouldn't it be great if we could have a trillion + dollar deficit and never have to answer to anybody for it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Are you telling me that $45/wk wouldn't possibly fill your tank up once more or allow you to be able to actually go out more often? When you make roughly $9/hr then that $45 represents a lot a week. I bust my chops for my money,I think I should be able to choose exactly where it goes.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[grneyedbbprincess]

I meant to make a reply to shchasm not myself. LoL.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[shchasm]

Are you telling me that $45/wk wouldn't possibly fill your tank up once more or allow you to be able to actually go out more often? When you make roughly $9/hr then that $45 represents a lot a week. I bust my chops for my money,I think I should be able to choose exactly where it goes.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. In fact, I believe you just confirmed what I've been saying all along.

First off...being of a low income, you receive almost all of that money back (as I previously stated). These tax issues don't really directly affect you, you are in whats called a "low tax bracket". Make sure to check your tax refund....That's tax money going straight back to you! I, on the other hand, have $350 a week takin out of my check for taxes--- you'd think I'd be on your side of this issue.....sure....I want lower taxes but I see the bigger picture. I too get some of that money back.

Secondly....say you make 9 dollars an hour, This is a complete reflection of the situation our country is in. Except our country needs way more money coming in to keep our economy from total collapse - so taxes HAVE to go up.
No one wants this of course, but we have to give it some time. If our economy collapses, you can forget about going out anywhere, or owning a blackberry, or filling up your lawn mower, or even having a job that pays you ANYTHING an hour.

[shchasm]

I hope I don't come off sounding like a **** princess. We seem to differ in our philosophy here, but I like the conversation

[amazinglygraceless]

Does anyone actually remember what the original point of this
thread was.

How it went from the United States National Advisor resigning
(proven false) to a bunch of "no one's mind is ever going to
be changed" diatribes is a mystery. Ideologues just love to
argue and bash the other side, I guess.

[shchasm]

Does anyone actually remember what the original point of this
thread was.

How it went from the United States National Advisor resigning
(proven false) to a bunch of "no one's mind is ever going to
be changed" diatribes is a mystery. Ideologues just love to
argue and bash the other side, I guess.

I agree this post quickly went off topic quickly. But I don't believe it's a waste of time either and I don't think everyone is hear to put down someones else's views. There is stuff to be learned here (especially from me ) and discussion often is a catalyst for one to do their own research.

And It's being kept civil

[Slingbox]

First off...being of a low income, you receive almost all of that money back (as I previously stated). These tax issues don't really directly affect you, you are in whats called a "low tax bracket". Make sure to check your tax refund....That's tax money going straight back to you! I, on the other hand, have $350 a week takin out of my check for taxes--- you'd think I'd be on your side of this issue.....sure....I want lower taxes but I see the bigger picture. I too get some of that money back.

Higher tax doesn't effect her hmm
Those she works for are paying higher tax and with that come less money for pay raise/promotion leading to downsizing etc.
More and More Higher paying jobs are being shipped overseas because companies that made America their home have relocated to were tax is low so business can thrive.

Secondly....say you make 9 dollars an hour, This is a complete reflection of the situation our country is in. Except our country needs way more money coming in to keep our economy from total collapse - so taxes HAVE to go up.

Are government needs to let money flow free market ,Not suck it up in a straw and spit it were they want.

I own a small construction company having to lay off 6 valuable employees due to higher tax.
If government didn't rape my wallet , would of gave me tax breaks my business could grow...oh yeah..with that comes more jobs but I'm sure you knew that already.

No one wants this of course, but we have to give it some time. If our economy collapses, you can forget about going out anywhere, or owning a blackberry, or filling up your lawn mower, or even having a job that pays you ANYTHING an hour.

Are economy has already collapsed my friend ,Governments buying up banks , Car manufactures etc.
Free market will no longer be free if government stays on their destructive path.

[shchasm]

For you to imply shes not taking a hit from higher tax shows how smart you really are.
Those she works for are paying higher tax and with that come less money for pay raises with more downsizing etc.
Higher paying jobs are being shipped overseas because companies that made America their home have relocated to were tax is low so business can thrive.


Are government needs to let money flow free market ,Not suck it up in a straw and spit it were they want.

I own a small construction company having to lay off 6 valuable employees due to higher tax.
If government didn't rape my wallet , would of gave me tax breaks my business could grow...oh yeah..with that comes more jobs but I'm sure you knew that already.



Are economy has already collapsed my friend ,Governments buying up banks , Car manufactures etc.
Free market will no longer be free if government stays on their destructive path.

If you think our economy has collapsed then you need a serious history lesson. I hope you read the rest of my posts so you can see where I'm comin from, cause it looks like you haven't.

By the sounds if it your all for letting things take their course. If things get worse, you'll be laying off all your employess. Cause it REALLY will collapse and their will be no costumers seeking your services.

I'm in construction as well....I can tell you first hand that higher taxes aren't hurting construction...though it may be hurting you....but no one has money to build anything. People can't get money lent to them from the banks to build anything! Unless!!!!---it's a state or federal Job!!! mmmmm Tax money.

part of the taxes is to start public works projects that are yet to come to fruition. Money that construction companies will be directly receiving--to employ people--so they can buy things.

Look I'm not sayin your not hurting...Everybody is right now..I understand where your comin from.

I Just believe this country is stuck right now and it's gonna take a little time.
We gotta keep our heads above water.

[BigBadWulf]

Does anyone actually remember what the original point of this
thread was.

How it went from the United States National Advisor resigning
(proven false) to a bunch of "no one's mind is ever going to
be changed" diatribes is a mystery. Ideologues just love to
argue and bash the other side, I guess.

I thought I had a good point on #82.

[shchasm]

I thought I had a good point on #82.

I totally agree with that post!!!!

[amazinglygraceless]

I agree this post quickly went off topic quickly. But I don't believe it's a waste of time either

I never said it was a waste of time. But truth to tell, it is. There are tons of
these types of threads on this site and they all turn into circular and pointless
arguments that no one will ever win.

and I don't think everyone is hear to put down someones else's views.

Again, I never said that either.

There is stuff to be learned here (especially from me ) and discussion often is a catalyst for one to do their own research.

No there isn't. And no, no one will. The people posting to this thread, as with
all the rest of the threads like this one are so firmly locked into their ideology
and partisan opinions that the mere concept of listening to the other side, let
alone doing their own research is anathema.

And It's being kept civil

Calling the President of the United States of America the antichrist? Yeah
that is civil as h3ll.

[Slingbox]

If you think our economy has collapsed then you need a serious history lesson. I hope you read the rest of my posts so you can see where I'm comin from, cause it looks like you haven't.

Oh my eyes are open.

By the sounds if it your all for letting things take their course. If things get worse, you'll be laying off all your employess. Cause it REALLY will collapse and their will be no costumers seeking your services.

Bingo....almost there , I guess when no one has jobs or money we can call it a true collapse huh

I'm in construction as well....I can tell you first hand that higher taxes aren't hurting construction though it may be hurting you.but no one has money to build anything. People can't get money lent to them from the banks to build anything! Unless!!!!---it's a state or federal Job!!! mmmmm Tax money.

Why in the heck do you want government run banks to take your customers money ,feed you with it then take what they gave you away-more tax?
Your skip the foundation throw the plates down way of thinking doesn't build a house....It builds a dream with no true set of plans.

part of the taxes is to start public works projects that are yet to come to fruition. Money that construction companies will be directly receiving--to employ people--so they can buy things.

I don't want money from government.
I want paying customers with money in there pocket..the money they worked hard for ,Not the money government took from them to play games with.

Look I'm not sayin your not hurting...Everybody is right now..I understand where your comin from.

Well I'm not trying to be a **** to you but your "The government will make it better" mindset isn't reality.

I Just believe this country is stuck right now and it's gonna take a little time.
We gotta keep our heads above water.

Are countrys not stuck..Those in that pretty White House love you to believe that though.

Bottom line
Government isn't are Savior and will never be.

[shchasm]

I never said it was a waste of time. But truth to tell, it is. There are tons of
these types of threads on this site and they all turn into circular and pointless
arguments that no one will ever win.



Again, I never said that either.




No there isn't. And no, no one will. The people posting to this thread, as with
all the rest of the threads like this one are so firmly locked into their ideology
and partisan opinions that the mere concept of listening to the other side, let
alone doing their own research is anathema.



Calling the President of the United States of America the antichrist? Yeah
that is civil as h3ll.

-You most certainly did call it a waste of time when you used the word "diatribe".

-I most certainly do research what I'm talking about, and what others talk about as well. So.....so much for that!


-As far as the antichrist thing goes..........you got me there


But I do submit to you.....I feel this thread probably has lost it's usefulness.

[shchasm]

Oh my eyes are open.

Bingo

Why in the heck do you want government run banks to take your customers money ,feed you with it then take what they gave you away-more tax?
Your skip the foundation throw the plates down way of thinking doesn't build a house....It builds a dream with no true set of plans.

I don't want money from government.
I want paying customers with money in there pocket..the money they worked hard for ,Not the money government took from them to play games with.


Well I'm not trying to be a **** to you but your "The government will make it better" mindset isn't reality.




Are countrys not stuck..Those in that pretty White House love you to believe that though.

Bottom line
Government isn't are Savior and will never be.

I know this sounds a little crazy but...the government is really suppose to be here to protect us, foreign and domestic. It's in the constitution...really!
I believe that's what their trying to do. It's the free market corporate businessmen scumbags who don't think twice about raping you and the rest of this country.

No I don't want government run banks per sey.....but these corporations along with the banks need to be set straight...they ran it out of control...the regulations we're their since the great depression to protect us, they've mostly disappeared. we need them back. Transparency.

Time will tell.

[shchasm]

Oh yea....one other thing.

I know you don't want money from the government, no one really should in that position. But if your company was on verge of tankin, would you not accept the money if the government came up to you and said; "Hey things are a little crazy right now, Here's some cash to hold you over until things get back to normal"?

Would you not accept that...not even for the sake of your employess?
I mean assuming your buisness is profitable in a stable economy to begin with.
It's your money to begin with. Or would you say "screw this buisness and the people who work for me....it's the governments fault and I don't want their money!"

[amazinglygraceless]

-You most certainly did call it a waste of time when you used the word "diatribe".

Diatribe is not synonymous with useless. Get a dictionary and look it up.

-I most certainly do research what I'm talking about, and what others talk about as well. So.....so much for that!

That makes you the exception to the rule. Read through some of the threads
I was talking about and you'll see my point with blinding clarity.

-As far as the antichrist thing goes..........you got me there

Of course I do.

But I do submit to you.....I feel this thread probably has lost it's usefulness.

It did long before now.

[pkcable]

I think it is hilarious how people automatically think that if you dislike Obama then you automatically like Bush and everything he did in his eight years. I am here to say that is SO not ture! I no not like Obama by any stretch of the imagination but I also do not like a lot of what Bush did.

I also think its hilarious (just a side note, lol) that in one breath people can say that they hate that Bush put us almost a trillion dollars in debt in 8 years but then in the next breath say that its completely okay that Obama wants to put us ten trillion in debt in half that amount of time. Side splitting hilarious!

I DID say probably.

Let me put a record on for some of us to listen too.....

[shchasm]

You've gotta be kidding me. You don't think it's a waste but you think it's useless? Talk about synonymous....give me a break.

[Swoopster]

In Clinton's years as President; he said the era of a need for 'big government' is over. However we have entered the era where big government is now necessary (not a choice)...in many facets of our lives.

Government intervention in some aspects of life may not be welcome by many; but in many more respects it is this very intervention that mandates/regulates/maintains order, responsibility and accountability. Let me give a recent and not-so-far-reaching example (the peanuts-processing plant) linked to an outbreak which led to deaths and illness across the country. Governmental entities had to actively step in the way of a 'freely operated' enterprise.

People shouldn't expect the government to ONLY come into the picture when a problem arises. Sure, some say gov't creates more problems than it solves and averts...however my point is government is needed (and it's need is getting bigger; hence government getting bigger).

Deal and live with it.