03-08-09 01:51 PM
387 ... 56789 ...
tools
  1. Mr Bigs's Avatar
    I'm just saying a lot of people start by saying "I'm not racist" when disagreeing with Obama
    I feel that race is not applicable. He is our president, and people should not care if he is black, purple, white, or orange.
    Further than that, he does not get a pass, just like bush didn't or clinton for that matter.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    That is why I went in so hard on the girl that started this thread and to boot she says she dated a black guy like anyone of us cares. If you start a thread like this have something to back up you reason for starting it.
    03-01-09 08:03 AM
  2. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    I'm just saying a lot of people start by saying "I'm not racist" when disagreeing with Obama
    I feel that race is not applicable. He is our president, and people should not care if he is black, purple, white, or orange.
    Further than that, he does not get a pass, just like bush didn't or clinton for that matter.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I agree. Obama will never get a "pass", so no need to worry about that. Further more, only you know how you truly feel about those of other races. I'm not moved by "I'm not racist" declarations, from anyone. Let your speech, actions and private thoughts be your guide.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-01-09 08:06 AM
  3. Storm7's Avatar
    That was a good smoke screen, 7, but when I mentioned police work, I was not talking about combatants captured on the battlefield. I was talking about terrorists arrested by law enforcement - FBI, CIA, Justice Department, ICE/Border Patrol, Secret Service, ATF, and all State and Local Agencies when needed.I don't know if you've noticed, but we're running out of battlefields for our armed forces to attack terrorists - or do you suggest we invade someone else? Naďve or not, our military can only do so much. We have to stop them the old fashioned way, investigate and arrest them. You seem to minimize the danger of those small cells, but those were exact operations that Al Qaeda ran leading up to 9/11. I'm not sure how I would feel about not giving suspects arrested in the US any rights - I take it you don't want to give them any. Maybe we can do a little waterboarding, too.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com.
    I understood your point and I have no problem with investigative agencies playing their role in bringing to justice terrorists cells already here in America. I was speaking of battlefield combatants (terrorists) captured on the battlefield in foreign lands.

    Where ever the terrorists are we should seek and destroy when they pose a threat to America...simple as that. Or would you rather the battlefield be here in America? Let me ask you a question, you're so concerned about giving terrorists rights, have you ever seen posted videos by the terrorists when they've kidnap an innocent civilian and cut their head off? I've seen atleast 3 of those blood curdling videos. These are the kind of animals you're more concerned about and whether or not they should have rights. I guess the terrorists are the real victims, right? Waterboarding, what are you afraid that the poor little terrorists might get a little water in their nose? If it get's results and saves American lives, I'm all for it...I'm sure that didn't surprise you did it?
    03-01-09 03:12 PM
  4. exelant's Avatar
    I know what the enemy has done, Seven. I have also witnessed things done in our name, a discussion not for public boards. I ask you what it means to be an American? You would have us unilaterally invade any country where a terrorist might be - essentially declare war on the world to root them out, and at the same time let it be known that democracy, rule of law and individual rights only belong to Americans. I'm sorry, I am not with you if that's the America you see. Saddam was evil, no question. The terrorists we seek are barbarians, on that we agree, but I for one do not want to join them. I believe in our constitution and our way of life. I believe in walking the walk and talking the talk. We become no better than them if we become like them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-01-09 03:27 PM
  5. Storm7's Avatar
    I agree. Obama will never get a "pass", so no need to worry about that. Further more, only you know how you truly feel about those of other races. I'm not moved by "I'm not racist" declarations, from anyone. Let your speech, actions and private thoughts be your guide.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Tlynnsmith, do you really think that the media didn't give this guy a pass throughout the campaign which continues to this day? They (CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC and the majority of print papers) were so biased they should be ashamed of themselves...You even have liberal media journalists admitting to it. How could they call themselves journalist's?

    If I remember correctly, in one of your prior posts you described yourself as a conservative but you voted for Obama, is that correct? If you don't mind me asking, exactly what conservative values do you think this man holds or believes in that would inspire you to vote for him?
    03-01-09 03:49 PM
  6. Storm7's Avatar
    I know what the enemy has done, Seven. I have also witnessed things done in our name, a discussion not for public boards. I ask you what it means to be an American? You would have us unilaterally invade any country where a terrorist might be - essentially declare war on the world to root them out, and at the same time let it be known that democracy, rule of law and individual rights only belong to Americans. I'm sorry, I am not with you if that's the America you see. Saddam was evil, no question. The terrorists we seek are barbarians, on that we agree, but I for one do not want to join them. I believe in our constitution and our way of life. I believe in walking the walk and talking the talk. We become no better than them if we become like them.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I didn't say we should wage an all out full military invasion of a foreign nation to go after the terrorists...there are other means to accomplish this I'm sure you are fully aware of. The invasion of Iraq to remove Sadaam and the war on terror are different in that one required a full military invasion to remove a sadistic leader that had defied countless UN resolutions. In the case with the terrorists, we are not trying to take down a government since the Taliban has been removed from governing Afghanistan to some degree or occupying a nation. We are trying to destroy their training camps, the terrorists and their leaders.
    Last edited by Storm7; 03-01-09 at 04:33 PM.
    03-01-09 04:31 PM
  7. exelant's Avatar
    Exactly, and you have come back to the point I made about law enforcement. It is the "other" method we must use continue our fight against them. Hopefully we won't be unprepared for our upcoming fight with Iran.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-01-09 04:50 PM
  8. Storm7's Avatar
    Law enforcement for the terrorists already here, fine. For the terrorists being harbored and trained in foreign nations, I don't think law enforcement is the preferred way. Some type of special ops or clandestine operation to eliminate them from ever reaching American soil or American interests in foreign lands seems more likely.
    03-01-09 05:09 PM
  9. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    Tlynnsmith, do you really think that the media didn't give this guy a pass throughout the campaign which continues to this day? They (CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC and the majority of print papers) were so biased they should be ashamed of themselves...You even have liberal media journalists admitting to it. How could they call themselves journalist's?

    If I remember correctly, in one of your prior posts you described yourself as a conservative but you voted for Obama, is that correct? If you don't mind me asking, exactly what conservative values do you think this man holds or believes in that would inspire you to vote for him?
    You should also remember that I said I'm not here to discuss Obama and why I chose him as president. I don't need clearance from my fellow conservatives. I was chiming in on the "Obama got in because he's black" song, which based on what we all know about America, is a foolish statement. Secondly, when you said Sarah Palin would have been a good choice because she's an "honest conservative", you lost me...forever. Your guy lost...get over it. As a Christian you should trust God enough NOT to be too moved by the figure in the White House. You rant as if it's all about Obama. If it is, then your hope is seriously misplaced.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-01-09 05:13 PM
  10. Storm7's Avatar
    You should also remember that I said I'm not here to discuss Obama and why I chose him as president. I don't need clearance from my fellow conservatives. I was chiming in on the "Obama got in because he's black" song, which based on what we all know about America, is a foolish statement. Secondly, when you said Sarah Palin would have been a good choice because she's an "honest conservative", you lost me...forever. Your guy lost...get over it. As a Christian you should trust God enough NOT to be too moved by the figure in the White House. You rant as if it's all about Obama. If it is, then your hope is seriously misplaced.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    McCain, I voted for him yes. Not because I wanted to, believe me. He was my only choice when compared to the likes of Obama. Obama is a far left liberal with a socialist agenda and the voting record to prove it...That's why I don't understand your vote for him when you called yourself a conservative.

    My comment on Palin was more in the line that she was more of a conservative than McCain and had the record to prove it...That's why I said I would have voted for her if it were a three person race between Palin, Obama and McCain. Off the top of your head, besides being elected, can you tell me one single accomplishment or significant piece of legislation this man has ever authored or created as a state senator of Illinois or as a US Senator? There is nothing this man has ever done that distinguishes him from the rest, politically speaking. He's a great speaker yeah, but leader, come on. He is the least experienced, least accomplished President in American history.

    I don't want you to think that I'm attacking you, because that's not my intention. You're right in the fact that regardless of whomever is in the White House, my faith ultimately lies with God. Peace be unto you.
    Last edited by Storm7; 03-01-09 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Grammar
    03-01-09 06:03 PM
  11. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    McCain, I voted for him yes. Not because I wanted to, believe me. He was my only choice when compared to the likes of Obama. Obama is a far left liberal with a socialist agenda and the voting record to prove it...That's why I don't understand your vote for him when you called yourself a conservative.

    My comment on Palin was more in the line that she was more of a conservative than McCain and had the record to prove it...That's why I said I would have voted for her if it were a three person race between Palin, Obama and McCain. Off the top of your head, besides been elected, can you tell me one single accomplishment or significant piece of legislation this man has ever authored or created as a state senator of Illinois or as a US Senator? There is nothing this man has ever done that distinguishes him from the rest, politically speaking. He's a great speaker yeah, but leader, come on. He is the least experienced, least accomplished President in American history.

    I don't want you to think that I'm attacking you, because that's not my intention. You're right in the fact that regardless of whomever is in the White House, my faith ultimately lies with God. Peace be unto you.
    Let me also say this: I wasn't crazy about Obama. I disagee with him on some things. But I also think he's got some good ideas, as well. But the whole Obama is the "least accomplished President" statement means exactly...what? Again, just as you question my position as a conservative (which I guess means I must be Borg-like in my views), I could ask how as a Christian, you think only "accomplished" people are worthy to be president of the United States?

    God has used, and often uses folks, who many (like you) would consider "unqualified". You bring up Obama's lack of "accomplishments", but you would have voted for Sarah Palin? What list is she on? What has she done that's stellar? Nothing I can think of. Oh...I forgot, she's an honest conservative. That was good enough for you. Just because you're against abortion doesn't mean you should be president.

    I vote, because it's a right I have as an American. But God's kingdom is not of this world. I had already made up my mind, before the election, that I would pray for and support the man God allowed to get the seat in the oval office — McCain or Obama. That's my responsibility. Pray for him. Don't spend so much time picking him apart, and trashing him. It's not cool. Leave that to the rest. It doesn't matter if you disagree with him. He's in, and there's enough bad will coming his way, from a lot of angles — some are very dangerous.

    He's got a very difficult job, at a very difficult time in history. He's got a lot of mess to clean up, that he didn't start. He will make mistakes, as he's a mere mortal.

    I don't feel attacked, but I think this discussion is going nowhere. We're not going to agree, and that's okay — but I don't want the president to fail, I want him to do well and I wish him well, regardless of how I feel about his position in all areas.
    03-01-09 06:57 PM
  12. jdoc77's Avatar
    Yo fence.. you have to know your "enemy" in order to deal with them. This is why cross cultural understanding is so important.

    There is a 4 tier scale of alien-ness or other-ness of thought that goes something like this.

    1. Simple mis-understanding. Two opposing viewpoints, but able to reason with one another based on common core philosophies, whatever differences exist.

    2. Simple core mis-understanding. Two opposing view points where at least one party has a core philosophy that differs from the other. Common ground still exists based on other over-arching core philosophies.

    3. Complex core mis-understanding. One of the opposing parties has a set of core beliefs that is at odds with the entire set of the opposition. Common ground is not impossible based on other inter-related, or even shared needs.

    4. Complete core mis-understanding. One of the parties holds as its core that the opposing party is unfit to reason with, and or is completely unable/unwilling to admit it's possible to reason with the opposition.

    I hate to bring up holocaust deniers and baby killers.... but what we are dealing with when we talk about "fundamentalist terrorists" are people in the 4th category. People who refuse to even acknowledge that the opposition (um.. us) are worth of being reasoned with in any way. This is different than saying all terrorists are bad and should be killed. It is saying that fundamentalist terrorists hold as their core principle that the West is not to be dealt with from any position but one of strength and destruction.

    This is not the desperate cry of an under-powered, economically starved minority. This is a cry every bit as sinister as Eugenics... it calls for the destruction of the opposition... and sadly, as the opposition, we can't exactly reason with people in category #4. ...Except by show of force. It's not us who has no option, it's them who has allowed us no option.
    lolz.. I quoted myself. Not to be self-important, but you only need look at the categories and realize where the opposition is to know what to do in any situation.

    Obama is a decent person, I truly believe that, but he and his "team" are wholly unprepared to be in charge. They are the good middle manager of a regional office that suddenly got made CEO... Clinton said it best in his first term when he described Democrats running the white house as it seeming to him that the kids are running the school. Again, I think Clinton was a shrewd politician... Obama is not. He is the valedictorian made principal the year after he graduates. He won't be ready for this job until it's time to vote him out. I wish him well, but ... so far, so bad.
    03-01-09 07:02 PM
  13. Storm7's Avatar
    Let me also say this: I wasn't crazy about Obama. I disagee with him on some things. But I also think he's got some good ideas, as well. But the whole Obama is the "least accomplished President" statement means exactly...what? Again, just as you question my position as a conservative (which I guess means I must be Borg-like in my views), I could ask how as a Christian, you think only "accomplished" people are worthy to be president of the United States?

    God has used, and often uses folks, who many (like you) would consider "unqualified". You bring up Obama's lack of "accomplishments", but you would have voted for Sarah Palin? What list is she on? What has she done that's stellar? Nothing I can think of. Oh...I forgot, she's an honest conservative. That was good enough for you. Just because you're against abortion doesn't mean you should be president.

    I vote, because it's a right I have as an American. But God's kingdom is not of this world. I had already made up my mind, before the election, that I would pray for and support the man God allowed to get the seat in the oval office — McCain or Obama. That's my responsibility. Pray for him. Don't spend so much time picking him apart, and trashing him. It's not cool. Leave that to the rest. It doesn't matter if you disagree with him. He's in, and there's enough bad will coming his way, from a lot of angles — some are very dangerous.

    He's got a very difficult job, at a very difficult time in history. He's got a lot of mess to clean up, that he didn't start. He will make mistakes, as he's a mere mortal.

    I don't feel attacked, but I think this discussion is going nowhere. We're not going to agree, and that's okay — but I don't want the president to fail, I want him to do well and I wish him well, regardless of how I feel about his position in all areas.
    I didn't question your position as a conservative. If you say you're a conservative, I'll take your word for it. I questioned your vote for someone himself who would tell you he is not a conservative and does not hold conservative values. That would be like me voting for Nancy Pelosi and expecting her to be Reagan like when she's totally just the opposite, it just doesn't make sense. That's my only point I was trying to make to you. You have the right to vote for anyone you choose regardless of party affiliation.

    I do believe that God uses people or promotes someone to positions that otherwise would not be achieved, so who am I to say I know better than God. All I know is at a time when we need leadership and experience the most, his credentials are seriously lacking. His constant doom and gloom speeches do nothing to uplift people or the economy. As for Sarah Palin, I believe she was the mayor of Wasila, Alaska for 6 years and she's been the Governor of Alaska in excess of 2 years. The responsiblities and executive decisions she's made as a mayor and governor would far outweigh Obamas political resume, up until now. The only thing off the top of my head that I could tell you about Obama's voting record as a State senator is that he voted present in excess of 100 times...that's real leadership. Palin didn't have that convenience but neither does Obama now.

    In the what, five weeks he's been in office now have you been impressed? Any buyers remorse thus far?

    P.S. I'm definitely with you on the prayer tip...I hit my knees every night and pray for this nation.

    Edit: You've mentioned on two occasions now that I said that Palin was an "honest conservative." I believe I actually said she was a "true conservative." By true conservative I mean she holds true to the views of conservatism and actually governs in a manner that's consistent with those views.
    Last edited by Storm7; 03-01-09 at 08:53 PM. Reason: Addendum
    03-01-09 08:08 PM
  14. jdoc77's Avatar

    I do believe that God uses people or promotes someone to positions that otherwise would not be achieved, so who am I to say I know better than God.
    I guess He let Hitler on the podium too... maybe He has a plan for Obama that will terrify us all...
    03-01-09 09:06 PM
  15. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    I didn't question your position as a conservative. If you say you're a conservative, I'll take your word for it. I questioned your vote for someone himself who would tell you he is not a conservative and does not hold conservative values. That would be like me voting for Nancy Pelosi and expecting her to be Reagan like when she's totally just the opposite, it just doesn't make sense. That's my only point I was trying to make to you. You have the right to vote for anyone you choose regardless of party affiliation.

    I do believe that God uses people or promotes someone to positions that otherwise would not be achieved, so who am I to say I know better than God. All I know is at a time when we need leadership and experience the most, his credentials are seriously lacking. His constant doom and gloom speeches do nothing to uplift people or the economy. As for Sarah Palin, I believe she was the mayor of Wasila, Alaska for 6 years and she's been the Governor of Alaska in excess of 2 years. The responsiblities and executive decisions she's made as a mayor and governor would far outweigh Obamas political resume. The only thing off the top of my head that I could tell you about Obama's voting record as a State senator is that he voted present in excess of 100 times...that's real leadership. Palin didn't have that convenience but neither does Obama now.

    In the what, five weeks he's been in office now have you been impressed? Any buyers remorse thus far?

    P.S. I'm definitely with you on the prayer tip...I hit my knees every night and pray for this nation.

    Edit: You've mentioned on two occasions now that I said that Palin was an "honest conservative." I believe I actually said she was a "true conservative." By true conservative I mean she holds true to the views of conservatism and actually governs in a manner that's consistent with those views.
    Semantics. I don't expect the president to mirror my values. He's the president of a country, that holds people from all walks of life, perspectives, beliefs, etc. This country is not a "Christian" nation, despite what you may have been led to believe. I say "may", because you may actually understand that. God has given man the ability to choose. I can't choose for the country. I don't want to.

    I don't care about how the president feels about gay marriage or abortion. I really don't. The world will do what it does. Again, I think a lot of our battles are not well thought out — which is why I can't think of one "Christian conservative" I'd want to head this country. Focus is too narrow, heads are buried way to deep in the sand — heavenly minded, but absolutely NO earthly good...and that's for the ones who actually ARE Christian.

    Republicans know the "hot buttons" to push, to get the conservative Christian vote, yet I honestly don't think they care anymore about the "unborn" than the rest. Values? They cheat, lie, adulterate, and steal...and change hats, once they get in office, just like every other politician. The system is corrupt, from the git-go. WWJD? Not join the republican party (NOR the democrats), you best believe that.

    The church has failed, and we want the government to be the moral police, and take away one of God's greatest gifts to mankind — the ability to...choose, EVEN when the choice is not of God. It's not going to happen. Just as God doesn't dwell in big stone buildings, and silver chalices and the traditions of men, the government will NEVER be what the church was meant to be.

    Be a light (quit doin' the same stuff everybody else is doing, so people will see a difference — not "you", anyone), and let the light enlighten and allow God to change the hearts of folks — THEN we will see real "change". God is sovereign. I believe that.

    Peace...I'm out! Oh...and sorry about my misquote..."true conservative"...not "honest" conservative.
    Last edited by Tlynnsmith; 03-01-09 at 09:17 PM.
    03-01-09 09:13 PM
  16. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    That is why I went in so hard on the girl that started this thread and to boot she says she dated a black guy like anyone of us cares. If you start a thread like this have something to back up you reason for starting it.
    Gotta say this too: We need to deep six the "I'm not racist, there's blacks/whites in my family" and the "I dated a black/white guy/girl, so...I'm not racist" comments. It means nothing. Nada.

    I dated a guy, who told me (a month into our dating relationship) that I wasn't like "most black people". He thought I was an anomaly — he actually said that I was one of the "better ones". Blew my mind. He tried to clean it up, with...guess what? The "Now, I'm not a racist..." lead-in, which led to a downhill discussion, from that point on. I can laugh at it, now.
    03-01-09 09:36 PM
  17. Storm7's Avatar
    Semantics. I don't expect the president to mirror my values. He's the president of a country, that holds people from all walks of life, perspectives, beliefs, etc. This country is not a "Christian" nation, despite what you may have been led to believe. I say "may", because you may actually understand that. God has given man the ability to choose. I can't choose for the country. I don't want to.

    I don't care about how the president feels about gay marriage or abortion. I really don't. The world will do what it does. Again, I think a lot of our battles are not well thought out — which is why I can't think of one "Christian conservative" I'd want to head this country. Focus is too narrow, heads are buried way to deep in the sand — heavenly minded, but absolutely NO earthly good...and that's for the ones who actually ARE Christian.

    Republicans know the "hot buttons" to push, to get the conservative Christian vote, yet I honestly don't think they care anymore about the "unborn" than the rest. Values? They cheat, lie, adulterate, and steal...and change hats, once they get in office, just like every other politician. The system is corrupt, from the git-go. WWJD? Not join the republican party (NOR the democrats), you best believe that.

    The church has failed, and we want the government to be the moral police, and take away one of God's greatest gifts to mankind — the ability to...choose, EVEN when the choice is not of God. It's not going to happen. Just as God doesn't dwell in big stone buildings, and silver chalices and the traditions of men, the government will NEVER be what the church was meant to be.

    Be a light (quit doin' the same stuff everybody else is doing, so people will see a difference — not "you", anyone), and let the light enlighten and allow God to change the hearts of folks — THEN we will see real "change". God is sovereign. I believe that.

    Peace...I'm out! Oh...and sorry about my misquote..."true conservative"...not "honest" conservative.
    Over and out...no problem about the misquote, it's all good and no hard feelings. Have a great week!
    03-01-09 09:56 PM
  18. exelant's Avatar
    I'm trying to wrap my mind around a Christian who's for killing and torturing suspects, and another who worries a person could be a Hitler or worse because he cares about the less fortunate and wants those who can afford it to pay a little bit more. And both probably don't believe a Democrat could possibly be a Christian. I keep waiting for Rod Serling to show up and introduce this episode of the Twilight Zone,

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-01-09 10:06 PM
  19. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    I'm trying to wrap my mind around a Christian who's for killing and torturing suspects, and another who worries a person could be a Hitler or worse because he cares about the less fortunate and wants those who can afford it to pay a little bit more. And both probably don't believe a Democrat could possibly be a Christian. I keep waiting for Rod Serling to show up and introduce this episode of the Twilight Zone,

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Doesn't that blow your mind? BTW, I'm not talking about "Storm7" or anyone in particular. I'm talking in general — conversations I've had with many conservatives — they'll battle for the unborn, but they don't seem to be as concerned about those who are already here, who experience atrocities at the hands of "conservatives". That's ungodly, unholy, and unbelievable.
    Last edited by Tlynnsmith; 03-01-09 at 10:26 PM. Reason: clarification
    03-01-09 10:10 PM
  20. 722ish's Avatar
    I dont like this current administration because of the decision making issues, the policies put into effect currently. I think obama suits other positions far more than Commander In chief.

    My stomach turns knots when people assume I dont agree with him due to race. I honestly couldnt care less. I think that the impact that this election had, as historic and cool it may be, sets a dangerous bar for future elections. Are they always going to be about race from now on out? Id hate to think that it will be an election of ethnicities or sexes from now on out. ODD to say the least.

    My major concern is all this spending. I hate liberal and conservative titles, but, I will never agree to the spending. Especially knowing taxes will go up, not down. There isnt a utopia coming anytime soon, dont punish paychecks anytime soon because spending now! Temporary tax cuts would probably inspire a good deal of confidence within the homes that need it most!
    03-02-09 04:22 AM
  21. caspian's Avatar
    Its interesting the divide this has caused across a united country. The interesting part is more people at my University followed the american elections than our own federal elections here in Canada.

    I don't know if it played on the HBO on the other side of the border, but on HBO canada there is a documentary of the right wing conservative views of him across the country. And the stuff they say really sums up how much either side knows about "issues".

    Finally everyone talking about "liberal media" well how "unbiased" is your Fox news assuming that's what you watch its all the same things.

    But hey its cool the President is a crackberry adict just like all of us.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-02-09 05:02 AM
  22. exelant's Avatar
    Americans must be confusing to watch from the outside Caspian. We do argue vehemently for our various sides, so some, like AL Qeada, would think something like 9/11 would divide us and make us give in to their demands. They were mistaken; Americans despite our differences, come together during times like that and work together to defeat such an enemy. We'll continue to argue our positions, but we haven't stopped going after the bed guys in Afghanistan and where ever they are. I can see how one might make the mistake of questioning our resolve, but it would be a mistake.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    03-02-09 06:34 AM
  23. wnm's Avatar
    Its interesting the divide this has caused across a united country. The interesting part is more people at my University followed the american elections than our own federal elections here in Canada.

    I don't know if it played on the HBO on the other side of the border, but on HBO canada there is a documentary of the right wing conservative views of him across the country. And the stuff they say really sums up how much either side knows about "issues".

    Finally everyone talking about "liberal media" well how "unbiased" is your Fox news assuming that's what you watch its all the same things.

    But hey its cool the President is a crackberry adict just like all of us.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    We are united in name only. That's why you continue to hear people rail against "big" government, and leaving things to the states. I saw the documentary you mentioned. You probably saw the candidates and their supporters talk about "real" americans (of which I am apparently not one). That pretty much sums up how united we really are.
    03-02-09 06:41 AM
  24. thinkamp's Avatar
    Well for everyone that thinks I don't have reasoning for disliking Obama you are wrong. Come down hard on me because I'm 19 and totally against Obama and the way he is going about fixing our economy! This so called “stimulus plan” is not going to fix things in the long run. Sure it will fix things for a little while, but in the end it is going to go right back down and we are going to be in more debt than we were before. I didn’t agree with the way Bush decided to put us in debt either. But wouldn’t you think they should give the American people some money so we could go out and buy things instead of being penny pinchers because so many people in America are broke. With this stimulus plan they could of easily gave the American people 10,000 each actually maybe more and we would of went out and spent it and that would of boost our economy more I the long haul. Sure some people would of invested it, but people would be able to go out and spend money instead of saving it. Also I do not think we need a bigger government, that is half the problem now. They aren't trying to really fixing anything at this point, they are just greedy and all about themselves.
    I do have reasoning for not liking Obama and you all have your reasoning for disliking or liking him. So jump off my back about it!
    Last edited by thinkamp; 03-02-09 at 07:55 AM.
    03-02-09 07:48 AM
  25. wnm's Avatar
    Well for everyone that thinks I don't have reasoning for disliking Obama you are wrong. Come down hard on me because I'm 19 and totally against Obama and the way he is going about fixing our economy! This so called “stimulus plan” is not going to fix things in the long run. Sure it will fix things for a little while, but in the end it is going to go right back down and we are going to be in more debt than we were before. I didn’t agree with the way Bush decided to put us in debt either. But wouldn’t you think they should give the American people some money so we could go out and buy things instead of being penny pinchers because so many people in America are broke. With this stimulus plan they could of easily gave the American people 10,000 each actually maybe more and we would of went out and spent it and that would of boost our economy more I the long haul. Sure some people would of invested it, but people would be able to go out and spend money instead of saving it. Also I do not think we need a bigger government, that is half the problem now. They aren't trying to really fixing anything at this point, they are just greedy and all about themselves.
    I do have reasoning for not liking Obama and you all have your reasoning for disliking or liking him. So jump off my back about it!
    A good stimulus plan, and the one that was enacted generally fits this, should 1) provide temporary tax relief to enable people to deal with reductions in income and/or higher costs associate with the economic down, 2) provides funding such as extended unemployment insurance, food stamps, health care assistance for those who have lost their jobs, and 3) provide funding that results in job creation such as for public works projects and initiatives that assist industries that allow them to hire people.

    Jobs is the key, because it provides self respect for those that have who have lost their jobs, as well as reduces the need for extended government benefits.

    Giving people a check will not significantly help the economy. Consumption will not create strong, good paying jobs with good benefits. It will at best increase the service sector economy which are typically lower wage jobs with limited or not benefits. Furthermore, direct disbursements will likely be used to deal with existing household financial issues such as paying off existing bills or used for savings for those without consumptive needs.

    Furthermore, if as you suggest we give everyone $10,000 which would be a big boost to consumption, there would be no long term benefit to the U.S. economy, because nothing is manufactured in the U.S. Consequently the heavy component of this spending winds up oversees (China) which ultimately becomes a stimulus for other countries.

    I can tell you that last years tax rebates went to payoff existing credit card bills. If my wife and I got another $10K each that would probably go in the bank as cushion in the event that one of us lost our job.

    In spite of my objections to Bush's tax cuts, they have benefited my wife and I pretty handsomely. However, all the extra take home income we received has been offset by the ever increasing share of our health insurance, and rising energy prices. Any tax cuts that the middle class and below have seen have effectively been give aways to OPEC. Yes it helps because we have the money to give to OPEC instead of our savings, but that money could have gone to greater benefit in the U.S.

    I also want to comment on those who have made light of your age. People shouldn't dismiss someones ideas out of hand whether they are 19 or 90. Your $10K give away shows that you at least understand that putting money in to the economy helps, and that it can help people stay afloat. I think there are better ways to do the same thing. However, at 47 and having worked for 25 years, I have much better idea of how are economy works, what fiscal policies have worked what ones haven't, and a much better idea of what a persons long term financial needs will be.
    03-02-09 08:24 AM
387 ... 56789 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD