03-08-09 01:51 PM
387 ... 34567 ...
tools
  1. Fence's Avatar
    We can go back and forth, over the hill, and through the woods and still end up back where we started.
    There's usually a small stream that I like passing by after I've gone past the hill on my way to the woods.

    02-27-09 12:10 AM
  2. exelant's Avatar
    Thanks for a reasonable voice Tlynn. One never minds having a debate with someone at least willing to listen to a point of view. And you're certainly correct to say that greed played a great part in our troubles, and there was plently of that on all sides to go around.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by exelant; 02-27-09 at 12:21 AM.
    02-27-09 12:18 AM
  3. Tlynnsmith's Avatar
    Thanks for a reasonable voice Tlynn. One never minds having a debate with someone at least willing to listen to a point of view. And you're certainly correct to say that greed played a great part in our troubles, and there was plently of that on all sides to go around.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    You're that "one", and you're doing an excellent job.

    02-27-09 12:31 AM
  4. Storm7's Avatar
    Stop carrying the guy's water? What a load, 7. Maybe I could say stop carrying the wealthy's water. Exactly what have the Republicans done for you? The guy stands on the podium and touts the free market and you call him a Marxist? I don't think you'd know a marxist if one bit you on the nose. Communism is a dead theory discredited and thrown out with the garbage. That said, those who blindly let themselves wear the leash of the wealthy conservative have no idea how badly they hurt themselves and the rest of us. Perhaps this is a good place for a quote from FDR advisor, John Kenneth Galbraith,
    "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: that is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
    The course many of you advocate has not worked, and yet you continue to espouse the same old thing, and at the same time spout off some revisionist history about FDR. You apparently have no idea what 25% unemployment looks like. Without FDR, there's some doubt we wouldn't have had another revolution where we actually got to see what Marxism was all about.

    The stimulus bill is going to work. The more conservatives and their foot soldiers claim it isn't , the more confident I am that it is - I mean they've been wrong so far. I have received a number of PMs encouraging me to keep up my near lone voice for reason in this thread. They are intimidated by conservatives because all they know how to do is browbeat the opposition, call those of us with the audacity to speak names like Marxist. I'm sorry, I will not be intimidated. I may not be able to answer every statement, there's only one of me, but the lies will be countered. I'm sorry, but during such economic times like these the curtain gets pulled back and we can see the Republicans for what they are. As Timnathe say's:
    Republicans have been successful in recent elections inducing workers and poor Americans to support the class that fights against their interests. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy; shipping jobs overseas and sending their daughters and sons to die in wars necessary only to enrich the economic elite is hardly in common folks' interests. Yet these folks have supported Republican candidates. Why? Not only because of single issues like abortion, patriotism and guns, but because they bought the ideology of extreme economic individualism and a skewered sense of elitism."

    It's obvious and out in the open. We're onto them and know a different model must be followed to dig ourselves out of the hole Bush has put us in. Of course you'll get another chance, after we've repaired the damage done. And for those working and middle class people who do support the Republicans, ask yourselves how much better off you are. Your 401 and 457K's are in the toilet, and Bush had you give the banks and their wealthy owners 700 billion dollars that has just disappeared, but credit was not loosened. And they want you to criticize the President for trying to use the same amount for your benefit. Take an honest look at what's going on. The evidence is there.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    See that's the difference between you and me. I don't look to Republicans, Democrats or the government period to do anything for me. He who depends on the government will always be at the mercy of someone else to provide for you. Are you kidding me, he touts capitalism...that's the biggest joke. I can't tell you how many times I've heard him say, "Only government can solve these problems." GOVERNMENT is the problem, get out of the way and the markets will self correct themselves without government intervention. You want to see the markets recover, cut corporate taxes which are at about 35 percent in half and just maybe corporations will stay in this country, cut personal income taxes, cut capital gain taxes, oh I forgot there aren't any capital gains with B O's stock market. The reason George Bush's economy wasn't more successful than it could have been after he cut taxes was to due to more government overspending and waste. Oh and for your information, I wasn't for any Wall Street bailouts or any bailouts for that matter. You saw after Bush bailed out the markets it didn't stop the market from falling did it? A lot of good that did, NOT. So B O follows up with his stimulus/bailout. There's no logic here. He can't pay for what he's spending. Why keep throwing good money that you don't have after bad? You're only mortgaging future generations...Can't you understand that?

    I never called you a marxist. I said that the ONE follows a marxist ideology. He believes in the redistribution of wealth, he believes in global government. Read his autobiography if you don't believe me and you decide for yourself. Have you ever heard of Saul Alinsky? Saul Alinsky was a radical socialist organizer and B O was S A community organizer. Ever heard of a book, "Rules for Radicals?" Obama taught the Alinsky methodology in classrooms. You research it for yourself and you decide.

    This whole economic crisis that we are in right now is in large part due to the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac cover up. When Bush and McCain both tried to warn of the looming crisis, what did the democrats do? They covered it up. There's enough blame to go around but you can lay this all at the feet of good ole Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter started all of this with the Community Reinvestment Act whose purpose was to put low income wage owners in homes even though they that couldn't afford it and now we are all paying the price. And for all the fat cats on Wall Street that took advantage of this situation and come hat in hand to the government for a bailout, I don't think so...They get no sympathy from me. I don't care if you a have a "D" or an "R" behind your name, if you're corrupt, good riddance with you.

    One thing I've learned about liberals is that you want to do things that make you feel good about yourself, but you don't. Liberals are angry and enraged and mad. Maybe this doesn't apply to you, maybe it does, but generally speaking it's very true. You think you're helping, but you're not. We are only suppose to look at the good intentions of liberal programs but not their end results. Your programs have created a dependency on government, you've transferred money, you've sent welfare, which to some point has crippled the black family. Are you proud of that? I came across an interesting article about liberalism from a veteran psychiatrist awhile back that I would like to share with you. It pretty much explains the far-left of your party including B O. Veteran psychiatrist calls liberals mentally ill
    02-27-09 01:27 AM
  5. exelant's Avatar
    7, You say you're not about labels, and then start attaching them to people. Liberal, wow, ouch, oh that hurt . You know nothing about me, and if you did, you know how laughable that label is. But if it helps you put some sense to the mess we're in, be my guest. Jimmy Carter?! The poor guy was sure busy during his term, the one where even his own party abandoned him. How about we look at some more of the real culprits:

    Angleo Mozilo:
    The son of a butcher, Mozilo co-founded Countrywide in 1969 and built it into the largest mortgage lender in the U.S. Countrywide wasn't the first to offer exotic mortgages to borrowers with a questionable ability to repay them. In its all-out embrace of such sales, however, it did legitimize the notion that practically any adult could handle a big fat mortgage. In the wake of the housing bust, which toppled Countrywide and IndyMac Bank(another company Mozilo started), the executive's lavish pay package was criticized by many, including Congress. Mozilo left Countrywide last summer after its rescue-sale to Bank of America. A few months later, BofA said it would spend up to $8.7 billion to settle predatory lending charges against Countrywide filed by 11 state attorneys general.

    Joe Cassano:
    Before the financial-sector meltdown, few people had ever heard of credit-default swaps (CDS). They are insurance contracts — or, if you prefer, wagers — that a company will pay its debt. As a founding member of AIG's financial-products unit, Cassano, who ran the group until he stepped down in early 2008, knew them quite well. In good times, AIG's massive CDS-issuance business minted money for the insurer's other companies. But those same contracts turned out to be at the heart of AIG's downfall and subsequent taxpayer rescue. So far, the U.S. government has invested and lent $150 billion to keep AIG afloat.

    Frank Raines:
    The mess that Fannie Mae has become is the progeny of many parents: Congress, which created Fannie in 1938 and loaded it down with responsibilities; President Lyndon Johnson, who in 1968 pushed it halfway out the government nest and into a problematic part-private, part-public role in an attempt to reduce the national debt; and Jim Johnson, who presided over Fannie's spectacular growth in the 1990s. But it was Johnson's successor, Raines, who was at the helm when things really went off course. A former Clinton Administration Budget Director, Raines was the first African-American CEO of a Fortune 500 company when he took the helm in 1999. He left in 2004 with the company embroiled in an accounting scandal just as it was beginning to make big investments in subprime mortgage securities that would later sour. Last year Fannie and rival Freddie Mac became wards of the state.

    Bernie Madoff:
    His alleged Ponzi scheme could inflict $50 billion in losses on society types, retirees and nonprofits. The bigger cost for America comes from the notion that Madoff pulled off the biggest financial fraud in history right under the noses of regulators. Assuming it's all true, the banks and hedge funds that neglected due diligence were stupid and paid for it, while the managers who fed him clients' money — the so-called feeders — were reprehensibly greedy. But to reveal government and industry regulators as grossly incompetent casts a shadow of doubt far and wide, which crimps the free flow of investment capital. That will make this downturn harder on us all.

    Stan O'Neal:
    Merrill Lynch's celebrated CEO for nearly six years, ending in 2007, he guided the firm from its familiar turf — fee businesses like asset management — into the lucrative game of creating collateralized debt obligations (CDOs), which were largely made of subprime mortgage bonds. To provide a steady supply of the bonds — the raw pork for his booming sausage business —O'Neal allowed Merrill to load up on the bonds and keep them on its books. By June 2006, Merrill had amassed $41 billion in subprime CDOs and mortgage bonds, according to Fortune. As the subprime market unwound, Merrill went into crisis, and Bank of America swooped in to buy it.

    John Devany:
    Hedge funds played an important role in the shift to sloppy mortgage lending. By buying up mortgage loans, Devaney and other hedge-fund managers made it profitable for lenders to make questionable loans and then sell them off. Hedge funds were more than willing to swallow the risk in exchange for the promise of fat returns. Devaney wasn't just a big buyer of mortgage bonds — he had his own $600 million fund devoted to buying risky loans — he was one of its cheerleaders. Worse, Devaney knew the loans he was funding were bad for consumers. In early 2007, talking about option ARM mortgages, he told Money, "The consumer has to be an ***** to take on one of those loans, but it has been one of our best-performing investments."

    Sandy Weill:
    Who decided banks had to be all things to all customers? Weill did. Starting with a low-end lender in Baltimore, he cobbled together the first great financial supermarket, Citigroup. Along the way, Weill's acquisitions (Smith Barney, Travelers, etc.) and persistent lobbying shattered Glass-Steagall, the law that limited the investing risks banks could take. Rivals followed Citi. The swollen banks are now one of the country's major economic problems. Every major financial firm seems too big to fail, leading the government to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to keep them afloat. The biggest problem bank is Weill's Citigroup. The government has already spent $45 billion trying to fix it.

    Jimmy Cayne:
    Who decided banks had to be all things to all customers? Weill did. Starting with a low-end lender in Baltimore, he cobbled together the first great financial supermarket, Citigroup. Along the way, Weill's acquisitions (Smith Barney, Travelers, etc.) and persistent lobbying shattered Glass-Steagall, the law that limited the investing risks banks could take. Rivals followed Citi. The swollen banks are now one of the country's major economic problems. Every major financial firm seems too big to fail, leading the government to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to keep them afloat. The biggest problem bank is Weill's Citigroup. The government has already spent $45 billion trying to fix it.

    George Bush:
    From the start, Bush embraced a governing philosophy of deregulation. That trickled down to federal oversight agencies, which in turn eased off on banks and mortgage brokers. Bush did push early on for tighter controls over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but he failed to move Congress. After the Enron scandal, Bush backed and signed the aggressively regulatory Sarbanes-Oxley Act. But SEC head William Donaldson tried to boost regulation of mutual and hedge funds, he was blocked by Bush's advisers at the White House as well as other powerful Republicans and quit. Plus, let's face it, the meltdown happened on Bush's watch.

    Alan Greenspan:
    From the start, Bush embraced a governing philosophy of deregulation. That trickled down to federal oversight agencies, which in turn eased off on banks and mortgage brokers. Bush did push early on for tighter controls over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but he failed to move Congress. After the Enron scandal, Bush backed and signed the aggressively regulatory Sarbanes-Oxley Act. But SEC head William Donaldson tried to boost regulation of mutual and hedge funds, he was blocked by Bush's advisers at the White House as well as other powerful Republicans and quit. Plus, let's face it, the meltdown happened on Bush's watch.

    Chris Cox:
    The ex-SEC chief's blindness to repeated allegations of fraud in the Madoff scandal is mind-blowing, but it's really his lax enforcement that lands him on this list. Cox says his agency lacked authority to limit the massive leveraging that set up last year's financial collapse. In truth, the SEC had plenty of power to go after big investment banks like Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch for better disclosure, but it chose not to. Cox oversaw the dwindling SEC staff and a sharp drop in action against some traders.

    Hank Paulsen:
    When Paulson left the top job at Goldman Sachs to become Treasury Secretary in 2006, his big concern was whether he'd have an impact. He ended up almost single-handedly running the country's economic policy for the last year of the Bush Administration. Impact? You bet. Positive? Not yet. The three main gripes against Paulson are that he was late to the party in battling the financial crisis, letting Lehman Brothers fail was a big mistake and the big bailout bill he pushed through Congress has been a wasteful mess.

    David Lereah:
    When the chief economist at the National Association of Realtors, an industry trade group, tells you the housing market is going to keep on chugging forever, you listen with a grain of salt. But Lereah, who held the position through early 2007, did more than issue rosy forecasts. He regularly trumpeted the infallibility of housing as an investment in interviews, on TV and in his 2005 book, Are You Missing the Real Estate Boom?. Lereah says he grew concerned about the direction of the market in 2006, but consider his January 2007 statement: "It appears we have established a bottom."

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by exelant; 02-28-09 at 11:11 AM.
    02-27-09 06:23 AM
  6. drjay868's Avatar
    I think the biggest problem with this economy, nay -- country, is that too many people expect somebody (read government) to fix things. Fix it your damned self.

    You got a mortgage that you couldn't afford and lost your house? Pay your debt, buy a new one you CAN afford, regardless of what the housing market or economic market does. Shouldn't the government lead by example? Oh, they have. They keep borrowing money from China or YOUR/OUR tax dollars and look what its done. Yes, Bush's bail-out plan didn't work, but its not because HE took the money and ran. The businesses/banks/lenders that were supposed to what it was intended for did. At least he had the right idea. Can't blame him for trying. Unfortunately, we've seen it didn't work before, it isn't going to work now. The US people are just as greedy as the banks.

    You lost your job? Go get another one. I don't care if you can't find one as the mortgage broker, or banker, or pipe welder you had before, there are always jobs to be found stocking shelves, mowing lawns, or flipping burgers. Anyone who says they can't find a job is just lazy and/or too proud to do what they believe is beneath them. Instead, these people suck from the rest of us (those of us who have jobs and taxes keep getting increased to pay for the increasing numbers of them) by staying on welfare. Or they stay on unemployment as long as possible, causing businesses to have to pay more. Don't get me wrong, welfare is a good and necessary thing... FOR SOME PEOPLE. Like my father, who was on it for less than 3 months when he got out of the army with 5 kids, a bank account empty, and no wife who split with that money. What did he do? Immediately got a job bussing tables for as much cash as possible, only using welfare to supplement his paycheck, until he got a job he wanted.

    That's why I say NOBama. I believe that he is a leader in the "don't worry about your mistakes, we'll fix it for you" attitude. Everything from the trying to fix the recession, to socialized healthcare. Let the markets fix themselves. They will if left alone. He needs only to impart some restrictions to limit fraud, and give little oversight. Make govt smaller. Its too big for its own good. I'm all for stimulating job growth, but stop borrowing money you can't pay back to stimulate jobs that will then make money. And for God's sake, ITS MY MONEY. LET ME SPEND IT WHERE I CHOOSE WITHOUT TAXING ME TO DEATH!!!!!

    Just my opinion. Like it or not.
    02-27-09 08:17 AM
  7. drjay868's Avatar
    Here's a quote I found, that I like. I wouln't necesarily use it as proof that liberals have a mental disorder like the author does, but I think its mostly true, for most far-left liberals... Not all dems.

    "A political leader who understands human nature will not ignore individual differences in talent, drive, personal appeal and work ethic, and then try to impose economic and social equality on the population as liberals do. And a legislator who understands human nature will not create an environment of rules which over-regulates and over-taxes the nation's citizens, corrupts their character and reduces them to wards of the state as liberals do." - Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr, M.D.
    02-27-09 08:35 AM
  8. exelant's Avatar
    People simply aren't listening to what he is saying. They watch his lips move and put what they want to hear in his mouth. A great part of our troubles are not from the mortgages going bad, 97% of all mortgage payments are being made and being made on time. The problem is the investment instruments created from the sub-prime mortgages that the banks invested in after Clinton signed into law the Republican created bill ending the Depression-era Glass-Steagall Act - this in turn allowed them to gamble with depositor's money. Many of us get it, but as much as some want to say let it burn, many would not like the results. It is the truth that the Government is the only entity big enough to do something about it. It is also a fact that if you make less than 250K, your taxes ARE going down. Give the guy a chance to try something, anything. I'm set, I have had the same employer for 30 years and could go home tomorrow on early retirement, I have worked hard my whole life, but it would horrible for our country to have. Those 25% unemployment rates. It truly is pay now or pay later. Keep people in their jobs, or invest in soup kitchens. What do we want to see in our future because we are at the edge of the cliff and slogans won't work any longer. As FDR said,
    "Take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly, and try another. But by all means, try something

    One thing is sure. We have to do something. We have to do the best we know how at the moment... If it doesn't turn out right, we can modify it as we go along"

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-09 08:54 AM
  9. exelant's Avatar
    Maybe it is time to repeat a quote that while it doesn't show conclusively Conservatives have no hearts or conscience due to their greed and unwillingness to pay their fair share for the great society we live in, it points in that direction...:
    "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: that is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." --John Kenneth Galbraith

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-09 09:02 AM
  10. drjay868's Avatar
    You're thinking about S-CHIP (State Children's Health Insurance Program). This is just another step toward nationalized health care provided by the government. If I remember correctly, the S-CHIP program even has provisions for children of illegal aliens...We surely can't leave them out.
    Thanks... I'm looking up the program now.

    I caught your sarcasm, but that's something that really burns my britches. Illegal immigrants, and children of illegal immigrants, should not have any rights in the US, unless they're contributing and paying taxes. At that point, might as well become a citizen.

    EDIT: Or at least a legal immigrant
    Last edited by drjay868; 02-27-09 at 09:12 AM.
    02-27-09 09:08 AM
  11. drjay868's Avatar
    Maybe it is time to repeat a quote that while it doesn't show conclusively Conservatives have no hearts or conscience due to their greed and unwillingness to pay their fair share for the great society we live in, it points in that direction...:
    "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: that is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." --John Kenneth Galbraith

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I don't see the selfishness in not wanting to pay more taxes so others can get what they want/need without working for it, whether it be living expenses, medical coverage, a big screen TV, or an education, when I work my arse off. I want them to work just as hard, without any excuses, and truly appreciate what they have.

    There is nothing selfish about wanting to teach a man to fish...
    02-27-09 09:17 AM
  12. drjay868's Avatar
    It is also a fact that if you make less than 250K, your taxes ARE going down.
    Correct. My taxes are going down by approx $15 a pay period. Not enough for me, or most of the US, to even notice, or change our spending habbits. And that's the point, isn't it? Let us keep more, so we spend more?
    02-27-09 10:20 AM
  13. pathymo's Avatar
    Thanks... I'm looking up the program now.

    I caught your sarcasm, but that's something that really burns my britches. Illegal immigrants, and children of illegal immigrants, should not have any rights in the US, unless they're contributing and paying taxes. At that point, might as well become a citizen.

    EDIT: Or at least a legal immigrant
    What about people who have to pay taxes and still don't have rights? Say..... Gay people?

    We, as human beings, have a moral responsibility to help those in need and to help eachother, not just other americans or legal citizens of the US. Anyone who thinks a child should be denied health care for any reason is a shining example of the greediness and selfish attitude of this country. If I can help insure the well being of someone else, then by god raise my taxes. Even if I'm not treated as equal by the government or may of its people.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by pathymo; 02-27-09 at 10:35 AM.
    02-27-09 10:32 AM
  14. pathymo's Avatar
    I don't see the selfishness in not wanting to pay more taxes so others can get what they want/need without working for it, whether it be living expenses, medical coverage, a big screen TV, or an education, when I work my arse off. I want them to work just as hard, without any excuses, and truly appreciate what they have.

    There is nothing selfish about wanting to teach a man to fish...
    This is selfish and greedy, and also an incorrect line of thought.

    "oh I work so hard I make money and have to may taxes but its my money me me me mine mine mine. Oh what's that? Raise my taxes a few cents to ensure everyone can have health care? No way! Its MINE!"

    What about people who work hard and pay taxes who do not get company benefits and don't make enough to buy health care and make too much for state assisted insurance? What right does anyone have to say "I won't contribute to your well being because I don't wanna pay any more"? That is called GREED. Uniquely american.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-09 10:44 AM
  15. drjay868's Avatar
    What about people who have to pay taxes and still don't have rights? Say..... Gay people?

    We, as human beings, have a moral responsibility to help those in need and to help eachother, not just other americans or legal citizens of the US. Anyone who thinks a child should be denied health care for any reason is a shining example of the greediness and selfish attitude of this country. If I can help insure the well being of someone else, then by god raise my taxes. Even if I'm not treated as equal by the government or may of its people.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Gay people can't vote? Can't pursue happiness? Get a job? An education? Healthcare? {sarcasm}

    In all seriousness, what rights are you looking for that you don't have? Marriage?

    I'm not being greedy or selfish. I work in a hospital for God's sake, helping people for a living. I just don't think it should be the govts job to provide healthcare for ALL children, let alone adults. Give it to those that need it, but anyone making over $40K a year can afford their own healthcare, as well as that of their children. And that's not a right. Its a privelege of being a US CITIZEN. You're not a US citizen, don't expect help. That doesn't mean it won't be given in extrenuating circumstances, but don't cry that Uncle Sam isn't knocking at your door to give handouts.
    02-27-09 10:48 AM
  16. exelant's Avatar
    Look Doc, lets not beat around the bush, welfare is dead. One can get food stamps and assistance for a short time, but then it is off and back to work. The problems that face us are a bit more serious than someone keeping their big screen TV. Of course no one wants to pay for anyone not working when a job is available, I'm with you on that. But if we do what some are advocating, it is going to be way way worse than a bunch of deadbeats trying to game the system. We are going to have massive layoffs. Millions upon millions of people looking for work that is not there. Is that the America you want to see? People standing in line for subsistence food aid like some 3rd world country?

    To put it in terms that affect your chosen profession, aren't enough people dying of cancer because they put off seeing a doc for that lump they feel simply because they don't have insurance? You know as well as I unemployed, uninsured people do not get enough medical care. If they get cancer, they die. It's as simple as that. In the greatest country on earth, people die of curable conditions because they do not have insurance. You said the other day a family making 40k can afford insurance. On exactly what planet is that true? Insurance for a family of four is over a thousand dollars a month. That's 30% of their income before deductions for ssn and other taxes. People can't afford that - and then you throw in the 20% deductable....

    Those are the kind of things you're being asked to pay for, not someone's big screen TV. Do people deserve to stay in a home they were conned into buying if they can't afford it, NO. Let it go to foreclosure. But isn't it our interest to help them if there is a way for them to afford it? This helps everyone: It keeps the value of everyone else's home from falling - it protects your investment in a home. Is everyone so tied to some ideology they will cut off their noses to spite their faces?

    Use common sense. The greed train Wall Street, Banks and every one of us have been on has stopped and everyone has to get off. It is time to roll up our sleeves and get to work fixing the problem. I'm sorry if you don't want to do your part. This time it is so serious you have to pay your share as I do, and all the rest of us do. Our leaders let the foxes watch the hen house and now we have no more eggs. Keep looking for that straw dog to blame, if you really want to catch him, try looking in the mirror. We all enjoyed the booming economy, but the time to pay is now.
    02-27-09 10:56 AM
  17. pathymo's Avatar
    Gay people can't vote? Can't pursue happiness? Get a job? An education? Healthcare? {sarcasm}

    In all seriousness, what rights are you looking for that you don't have? Marriage?

    I'm not being greedy or selfish. I work in a hospital for God's sake, helping people for a living. I just don't think it should be the govts job to provide healthcare for ALL children, let alone adults. Give it to those that need it, but anyone making over $40K a year can afford their own healthcare, as well as that of their children. And that's not a right. Its a privelege of being a US CITIZEN. You're not a US citizen, don't expect help. That doesn't mean it won't be given in extrenuating circumstances, but don't cry that Uncle Sam isn't knocking at your door to give handouts.
    I'm talking about the over 1000 federal rights that straight couples have that I can't have with my partner. I CAN get married. It just won't be recognized by the federal governmnt because I am less than human.

    My mother in law is also a nurse, and cringes at the thought of not having universal health insurance. Everyone should be able to receive health care. Its just something that I believe strongly that shouldn't have to be worried or thought about. If you're shot, do you have to worry about paying for that cop to come to your aid? No of course not. It is provided to you. You just have to worry about the bill you're gonna get to keep you alive.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-09 11:01 AM
  18. drjay868's Avatar
    "I won't contribute to your well being because I don't wanna pay any more"? That is called GREED. Uniquely american.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I contribute to MANY causes. I am a teamleader for one right now. When this event is over, I will find and join another and contribute to it... but ONE OF MY CHOOSING.

    And its not selfish. Its fact. I worked for it. It IS my money. Not yours or anyone elses.

    Go outside and find someone who doesn't have a car, and give them yours. They need to get to work. You take the bus. No? You're selfish.
    02-27-09 11:03 AM
  19. pathymo's Avatar
    Oh and btw, I do make 40000 a year and no, I can't afford health insurance

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-27-09 11:05 AM
  20. pathymo's Avatar
    I contribute to MANY causes. I am a teamleader for one right now. When this event is over, I will find and join another and contribute to it... but ONE OF MY CHOOSING.

    And its not selfish. Its fact. I worked for it. It IS my money. Not yours or anyone elses.

    Go outside and find someone who doesn't have a car, and give them yours. They need to get to work. You take the bus. No? You're selfish.
    Congratulations. You contribute to causes of your choosing. Hope it makes you feel good. You're still greedy. If given the opportunity to help others by paying slightly higher taxes, to provide health care, you would fight it. Because its your money and why should you help another in need if you don't choose to?

    and while I don't think a car and human life are quite on the same level as you do, if I were able to help someone in such a way I would. If giving someone a car would save their life, then yes I would give them one without blinking an eye because it is my responsibility as a human being.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by pathymo; 02-27-09 at 11:14 AM.
    02-27-09 11:12 AM
  21. drjay868's Avatar
    Oh and btw, I do make 40000 a year and no, I can't afford health insurance

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I spoke on that from personal experience. I too made $40K a year and paid for my own healthcare. I was able to save money, go to school, pay rent, and have some semblance of a social life. Had some toys. It wasn't easy. It wasn't glamorous. But I did it.

    My brother is doing it now, with a child. He makes just over $40K and his wife makes just under. They're doing it. Other families can do it.
    02-27-09 11:12 AM
  22. pathymo's Avatar
    I spoke on that from personal experience. I too made $40K a year and paid for my own healthcare. I was able to save money, go to school, pay rent, and have some semblance of a social life. Had some toys. It wasn't easy. It wasn't glamorous. But I did it.

    My brother is doing it now, with a child. He makes just over $40K and his wife makes just under. They're doing it. Other families can do it.
    Good for you, and great for your brother. Good that other families can do it. But me, living as a single person in Brooklyn while also going to school, cannot do it. Which is the point. Not everyone is in the same circumstances at the same time, and what one person or family can do is not necessarily what another person or family can do. When it comes to things like cars or houses or electronics or whatever, its clear--you can't afford it, you can't get it. But when it comes to health care, it is wrong. You can't afford it, you can't get it? That's wrong.
    02-27-09 11:26 AM
  23. drjay868's Avatar
    I just believe that a line has to be drawn somewhere, and to TAKE from one to give to another is just as wrong as turning a blind eye. The story of Robin Hood is very heart-felt, but he was still a thief.

    And yes, I do feel good about helping causes I choose to help. And yes, I would fight an increase my taxes. And not because I'm greedy, or selfish, or not a good human being.
    Last edited by drjay868; 02-27-09 at 12:22 PM.
    02-27-09 12:17 PM
  24. xxxxpradaxxxx's Avatar
    Obama Or Nobama-

    At This Point Obama Won, Cool.

    I Don't Care Anymore- I Just Hope He Helps This Country And Wish Him The Best.

    As A 3rd Generation Business Owner, All This Talk Of Raising Small Business Taxes, Coupled With A Huge Increase Of Property Taxes In NJ-

    Is Pretty Daunting.

    Not To Mention The Decline In The Economy- That All Business's As a Whole Are Experiencing.

    Like I Said, Obama Won, It's All Said And Done.

    It's Useless, And A Waste Of Time To Throw Tantrums-

    I Wish The Man The Best, In The Hopes That He Helps Us Out, And Fixes This Country, Even If It's Just A Fantasy In My Head.

    To Much Is At Stake.

    All This Recession/Depression Talk Really Depresses Me.

    Am I The Only One?

    Please Tell Me No-
    Last edited by xxxxpradaxxxx; 02-27-09 at 01:26 PM.
    02-27-09 01:16 PM
  25. Fence's Avatar
    As far as the economy goes; It depends on what side of the fence (yes; pun intended) you're on. Obviously as a whole; Americans are feeling the pinch of the recession. Some optimists say that it looks like we're going through the worst economic downturn since the great depression...ONLY because of the manner and the amount that the media portrays it as. These same optimists point to history where the media didn't play as big a hand as it does now in instilling fear in the masses. These extreme optimists (as well-intentioned as they may be)...are self-blinded from seeing the negative numbers of historic porportions.

    However, that aside...yes I definitely feel that constant talk/awareness/attention towards the health of the economy does effect the psyche of even the most monetarily healthy Americans.

    The more meaningful thing to look at is just how GLOBALLY interconnected the world's 21st century economy is. You take a downward spiral in the economy of a major country (i.e. America, the most powerful nation on earth)...and it affects the economic well-being of many other countries. This is the biggest indicator of a true American recession now; analyze the GDPs of countries whose GDP remains strong in a parallel-manner when America's economy is strong...and now look at the decline in those same numbers when the growth in America's economy is exponentially negative.
    Last edited by Fence; 02-27-09 at 02:08 PM.
    02-27-09 02:05 PM
387 ... 34567 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD