[editionfws]

well... all i can say is... agreed. :-)
we will wait and see how he does... i guess for all i know, he might do something crazy and make everything better. thats not really possiable for anyone, but he may do alot of good.

[jdoc77]

Well, we can apparently argue all day about whose fault what particular budget issue was, and I get pretty ADD about saying the asme thing over and over. Lol. There are millionaires (in congress) who make their living obfuscating thes facts we are arguing about.

But I maintain the following:

1. Both FDR and JFK would disagree with how Obama is managing the current crisis based on what they both said and did in office.

2. Democrats are unequally to blame for the current economic decompensation based on failure to act on the banking crisis. In other words, when it was brought to their attention in 2006, they basically said, "Let's run this train into the ground while we can still blame Bush." I don't disagree that Republicans who didn't act are also to blame, but House and Senate Dems led by Obama (defacto leadership since He's now top dog) were driving the train when it came off the rails.

And as for giving Obama a chance, I actually think he's a decent guy who is in way the frak over his head. He's never had a job and basically has never dealt with actual politics in the sense that he's been a golden boy and pushed to the head of every line. And his voting record shows that whenever there was real conflict, he took a pass by voting present.
We will eventually muddle out of this recession rergardless of what the government does, but spending billions of dollars on pet projects ANY time, much less now will only delay the inevitable recovery.

That teach a man to fish line applies here. Spending money and not encouraging job creation is the same as giving a man a fish. Cutting taxes on employers and business creators and easing regulatory restrictions on businesses to make them MORE competitive is like teaching the man to fish.

The current plan gives away a lot more fish than it spends on fishing lessons... Unless you count the earmarks for Salmon fisheries as the latter.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[exelant]

We can argue, and I do love to as you can see. I'm a bit busy, but I'll answer your points soon, doc. I'm pretty sure you know by now I'm not an unprepared kool-aid drinker. We both see the same problems and come to a different conclusion about the causes and solutions. I believe Obama is a politician in the mold of FDR. He is taking action, whether one likes it or not. FDR made plenty of mistakes along the way, but he did something just as President Obama is. My point is that we should give him a chance before attacking him. No one knows yet if the stimulus is going to work, but what he is doing is no secret. It is exactly what he said he was going to do during the campaign.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Mr Bigs]

Glad some people are throwing there opinions out there..seems like some people don't even wanna get into it.

You started this thread and didn't post one useful piece of information at all but you agreed with all the people who did in your favor. What's Up ? What are your views ?

[jdoc77]

The problem is he is taking action that both FDR and JFK warned AGAINST !!

And now I have to go and list all the campaign promises he has ALREADY broken too?

Let's start with lobbyists. His direct quote while campaigning was, "When I am president, they won't find a job in my White House."

Upon taking office, he immediately backpeddled and said that he would hire them as long as they didn't work in areas where they had lobbyed in the last 2 years and he has appointed at least 2 lobbyists thus far...

Trust me, if it was Bush we were arguing about, I'd tear him a new one over some things too, but he's not driving the train anymore...

[editionfws]

she already got yelled at numerous times for her thoughts and opinions. she has stated them before. check the thread that this one originated from.
she really has said alot... maybe not paragraphs but she has stated her opinion and spoken her mind.

[thinkamp]

she already got yelled at numerous times for her thoughts and opinions. she has stated them before. check the thread that this one originated from.
she really has said alot... maybe not paragraphs but she has stated her opinion and spoken her mind.

hahaha thank you! they actually closed or locked the thread that started this all and they deleted everything i said and everything that everyone else had to say about it.

[Fence]

How about for those on the fence (no relation); can there be people in the Maybebamas/Probablybamas/Benefitofthedoubtbamas group?

[thinkamp]

How about for those on the fence (no relation); can there be people in the Maybebamas/Probablybamas/Benefitofthedoubtbamas group?

heckaaa yea! totally cant leave you all out!

[Mrs. Curvy]

I don't really think it matters if it is Obama or whether it was McCain we all would still have something to complain about. We complained when Bush was in office making a mess and now have a new President "Yes a black man"in office trying to clean up the mess. But at the end of the day he is the President our leader and WE need to support him. If we all come together and work together instead of always complaining and criticizing what the other Person is trying to do then we just may see progress. All means Black and White etc.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Yamo]

hmmmm can we say 401k's....all these clowns are costing me money. I have no interest in helping people who have made poor decisions, the age of responsibility is gone. Only change now is spending faster then ever. welcome to France

[exelant]

Doc said it, he'd be tearing Bush a new one. I don't really think he'd care who was there, he'd be complaining. Now Presidents must be clairvoyant. Give me a break, please find me a quote where FDR said to cut the wealthy's taxes to get us out of a economic slump . What a crock! Shall we review some of the players and their roles in our troubles?
How about starting. With the architect:
Phil GrahmAs chairman of the Senate Banking Committee from 1995 through 2000, Gramm was Washington's most prominent and outspoken champion of financial deregulation. He played a leading role in writing and pushing through Congress the 1999 repeal of the Depression-era Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial banks from Wall Street. He also inserted a key provision into the 2000 Commodity Futures Modernization Act that exempted over-the-counter derivatives like credit-default swaps from regulation by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Credit-default swaps took down AIG, which has cost the U.S. $150 billion thus far.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[exelant]

Maybe we can move on to the regulator from Time's list of culprits how about a little oversight? Oh yeah, Conservatives don't believe in regulation!! Look at what good that's done for us.

SEC Chris Cox: The ex-SEC chief's blindness to repeated allegations of fraud in the Madoff scandal is mind-blowing, but it's really his lax enforcement that lands him on this list. Cox says his agency lacked authority to limit the massive leveraging that set up last year's financial collapse. In truth, the SEC had plenty of power to go after big investment banks like Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch for better disclosure, but it chose not to. Cox oversaw the dwindling SEC staff and a sharp drop in action against some traders.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Mr Bigs]

hahaha thank you! they actually closed or locked the thread that started this all and they deleted everything i said and everything that everyone else had to say about it.

I call B.S,all I see is a 19 yo starting a thread stirring up ****. Open this thread when you've been paying taxes for at least 10 years and have a family that way we won't have to listen to others views which you mirror.

[drjay868]

What's the name of the plan that gives poorer children free child care?

The reason I ask is I don't know the details so was hoping someone could impart some knowledge on my head. I would myself, but don't know what I'm looking up. Anyways, what I've heard, I do not like, so I want facts.

What I've heard is that this program allows poor children to get free healthcare. All good. BUT, BO wants to change this program so that ANYONE who makes less than $80K a year would be able to get free healthcare. WHAT?!?!?!

I really don't believe anyone making more than $40K a year cannot afford their own healthcare. Not just that, but most jobs like that are even offering some help on healthcare. If this is true, why would my employer even attempt to offer me healthcare that they're going to pay at least some for, when I can get it free from the good 'ole USA?

Again, I don't know all the details, but if ANY of this is true, its just one step closer to socialized healthcare, and that's a big NO NO, if you ask me. If someone could at least give me the name of the program, I'll go look up the details myself.

[thinkamp]

I call B.S,all I see is a 19 yo starting a thread stirring up ****. Open this thread when you've been paying taxes for at least 10 years and have a family that way we won't have to listen to others views which you mirror.

or you can just stay the **** out of this thread and leave me the **** alone! yea good idea!

[Storm7]

What's the name of the plan that gives poorer children free child care?

The reason I ask is I don't know the details so was hoping someone could impart some knowledge on my head. I would myself, but don't know what I'm looking up. Anyways, what I've heard, I do not like, so I want facts.

What I've heard is that this program allows poor children to get free healthcare. All good. BUT, BO wants to change this program so that ANYONE who makes less than $80K a year would be able to get free healthcare. WHAT?!?!?!

I really don't believe anyone making more than $40K a year cannot afford their own healthcare. Not just that, but most jobs like that are even offering some help on healthcare. If this is true, why would my employer even attempt to offer me healthcare that they're going to pay at least some for, when I can get it free from the good 'ole USA?

Again, I don't know all the details, but if ANY of this is true, its just one step closer to socialized healthcare, and that's a big NO NO, if you ask me. If someone could at least give me the name of the program, I'll go look up the details myself.

You're thinking about S-CHIP (State Children's Health Insurance Program). This is just another step toward nationalized health care provided by the government. If I remember correctly, the S-CHIP program even has provisions for children of illegal aliens...We surely can't leave them out.

[Mr Bigs]

or you can just stay the **** out of this thread and leave me the **** alone! yea good idea!

Just what I mean a dopey *** kid with no real opinion.

[Storm7]

I call B.S,all I see is a 19 yo starting a thread stirring up ****. Open this thread when you've been paying taxes for at least 10 years and have a family that way we won't have to listen to others views which you mirror.

If more people, let along 19 year olds, that actually knew more about the issues and the candidates that were running for President, I think the outcome would have been totally different. Now, we suffer the consequences as a nation. We have a President that wants to tax and spend like there is no tomorrow. So regardless of how old she is, at least she's more informed than your average voter or typical 19 year old and I applaud her for that. Can you say the same when you were 19? I know I can't.

[Storm7]

We can argue, and I do love to as you can see. I'm a bit busy, but I'll answer your points soon, doc. I'm pretty sure you know by now I'm not an unprepared kool-aid drinker. We both see the same problems and come to a different conclusion about the causes and solutions. I believe Obama is a politician in the mold of FDR. He is taking action, whether one likes it or not. FDR made plenty of mistakes along the way, but he did something just as President Obama is. My point is that we should give him a chance before attacking him. No one knows yet if the stimulus is going to work, but what he is doing is no secret. It is exactly what he said he was going to do during the campaign.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

What good is taking action when it's the wrong action? A lot of the money in the so called stimulus bill will not even be spent until 2010 and there after. And we all know what happens in 2010, election time...humm what a coincidence. If you're comparing B O to FDR for the actions FDR took, that's not a good sign for Obama's stimulus plan. It is well known that FDR's policies actually prolonged the depression. I agree with you on one point, I knew exactly what B O would do if elected President...that's why I was never impressed with him and didn't vote for him. The guy is a straight out MARXIST.

In the four weeks he's been in office, can you with a straight face so you're confident in this man's ability to lead this nation? Look at his cabinet appointments that he wanted to push through who knowingly failed to pay their taxes. So much for all of his rhetoric about transparency and being the most ethical administration. Stop carrying the water for this guy. I just hope this nation can survive another 4 years and still be the same country it was before B O.

[0pusX]

NObama for me.

I dont agree with him on too many issues. I would have liked to see Mike Huckabee win.

[cretz42#WN]

What good is taking action when it's the wrong action? A lot of the money in the so called stimulus bill will not even be spent until 2010 and there after. And we all know what happens in 2010, election time...humm what a coincidence. If you're comparing B O to FDR for the actions FDR took, that's not a good sign for Obama's stimulus plan. It is well known that FDR's policies actually prolonged the depression. I agree with you on one point, I knew exactly what B O would do if elected President...that's why I was never impressed with him and didn't vote for him. The guy is a straight out MARXIST.

In the four weeks he's been in office, can you with a straight face so you're confident in this man's ability to lead this nation? Look at his cabinet appointments that he wanted to push through who knowingly failed to pay their taxes. So much for all of his rhetoric about transparency and being the most ethical administration. Stop carrying the water for this guy. I just hope this nation can survive another 4 years and still be the same country it was before B O.

nicely said. although i wouldnt go as far as to say the guys marxist, its just typical liberal democratic spending out the a$$. sure he speaks well, because of a man named jon farveau. and i agree with the horrible cabinet selections. i didnt like either of the candidates, im just more conservative, so i went with johnny MaC.

[exelant]

Stop carrying the guy's water? What a load, 7. Maybe I could say stop carrying the wealthy's water. Exactly what have the Republicans done for you? The guy stands on the podium and touts the free market and you call him a Marxist? I don't think you'd know a marxist if one bit you on the nose. Communism is a dead theory discredited and thrown out with the garbage. That said, those who blindly let themselves wear the leash of the wealthy conservative have no idea how badly they hurt themselves and the rest of us. Perhaps this is a good place for a quote from FDR advisor, John Kenneth Galbraith,
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: that is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
The course many of you advocate has not worked, and yet you continue to espouse the same old thing, and at the same time spout off some revisionist history about FDR. You apparently have no idea what 25% unemployment looks like. Without FDR, there's some doubt we wouldn't have had another revolution where we actually got to see what Marxism was all about.

The stimulus bill is going to work. The more conservatives and their foot soldiers claim it isn't , the more confident I am that it is - I mean they've been wrong so far. I have received a number of PMs encouraging me to keep up my near lone voice for reason in this thread. They are intimidated by conservatives because all they know how to do is browbeat the opposition, call those of us with the audacity to speak names like Marxist. I'm sorry, I will not be intimidated. I may not be able to answer every statement, there's only one of me, but the lies will be countered. I'm sorry, but during such economic times like these the curtain gets pulled back and we can see the Republicans for what they are. As Timnathe say's:
Republicans have been successful in recent elections inducing workers and poor Americans to support the class that fights against their interests. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy; shipping jobs overseas and sending their daughters and sons to die in wars necessary only to enrich the economic elite is hardly in common folks' interests. Yet these folks have supported Republican candidates. Why? Not only because of single issues like abortion, patriotism and guns, but because they bought the ideology of extreme economic individualism and a skewered sense of elitism."

It's obvious and out in the open. We're onto them and know a different model must be followed to dig ourselves out of the hole Bush has put us in. Of course you'll get another chance, after we've repaired the damage done. And for those working and middle class people who do support the Republicans, ask yourselves how much better off you are. Your 401 and 457K's are in the toilet, and Bush had you give the banks and their wealthy owners 700 billion dollars that has just disappeared, but credit was not loosened. And they want you to criticize the President for trying to use the same amount for your benefit. Take an honest look at what's going on. The evidence is there.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Fence]

There are obviously going to be points made from both of the MAIN angles of the political spectrum; as well as points from a more 'centered' (easier said than to actually be) angle.

exelant has brought up many great points that tie the relavence of the political past; to that of the present political reality.

[Tlynnsmith]

I have received a number of PMs encouraging me to keep up my near lone voice for reason in this thread. They are intimidated by conservatives because all they know how to do is browbeat the opposition, call those of us with the audacity to speak names like Marxist. I'm sorry, I will not be intimidated.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

First off...I'm with you. I came in because I wanted to say to you that all of us are not "intimidated by conservatives". I am a conservative AND a Christian, yet I don't agree with most conservatives, on every issue. Some of us just choose to avoid discussions that lead to nowhere. It's tiring, and a complete waste of time. Like the woman said earlier, folks will complain regardless. Everyone is a "couch politician", and knows how to run this country better than the ones elected to do so. Yet some (probably many) Americans won't accept responsibility for living way beyond their means, spending as if money grows on trees, trusting in the myth of "job security", and believing that financial hardship would never knock on their doors � like any good pimp, "Visa" wants his money.

We can go back and forth, over the hill, and through the woods and still end up back where we started. Obama hasn't been in office long enough for me to say too much, either way. But I can speak on the 8-year Bush fiasco. Yet, I won't, cuz it angers me so.

Thanks for your input.