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You didn't read my post. I'm just getting warmed up, got my fingers flexed and my search engine ready,
. I love a good political debate, especially with people advocating discredited political ideas. As long as the name calling can be kept out of it, let's debate.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com02-26-09 07:51 AM - Yea I'd like to leave name calling out of it! Just state your opinions!!You didn't read my post. I'm just getting warmed up, got my fingers flexed and my search engine ready,. I love a good political debate, especially with people advocating discredited political ideas. As long as the name calling can be kept out of it, let's debate.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com02-26-09 08:00 AM - Don't worry, I have a feeling we're just getting warmed up and this debate will go on for some time. Hopefully we can get to some substance and not have a argument of slogans and innuendo - like where did the conservatives hide the bill for the bank bail out? Innuendo!
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com02-26-09 11:03 AM - Like FDR, the president is pragmatic. If something isn't working, he will try something else. It is the sign of a good leader. We shall see if greatness is in his future, I hope so for all our sakes. FDR was considered a traitor to his class for all he did to make life better for the working class. If one reads the history of his presidency, they'll see many of the same things said about him then are being said today about Obama. That alone gives me confidence he is on the right track. There probably is some pork in the stimulus bill, but it isn't shameless welfare for already rich bankers. We gave them 700 thousand million dollars to free up credit and what did they do with it? We tried cutting taxes on the rich and what did they do?
They turned around and conned even more from the less sophisticated poor by pushing mortgages they could not hope to repay - do an internet search of how much money was really dumped into the economy to sell those mortgages, and the biggest players were not known by first names.
Those same people turned those mortgages into investment instruments doomed to fail from the beginning because there was no oversight. Then we give them half a trillion dollars to recover and jump start the economy, what did they do with the money? Down a rat hole, none of it was released to spur credit, but plenty of bonuses got paid.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com02-26-09 12:02 PM - This has to be some of the biggest head in the sand reasoning I have ever seen. Let's take this on point by point.
1. You completely ignore the BILLIONS of dollars that is NOT going towards anything that will "stimulate" the economy. You refuse to say anything about 4 billion for ACORN. Until you address that, you are pretending to know what you are talking about.
2. True experts on the economy will tell you that spending is NOT the way to stimulate a failing economy. I'm sure you can find partisan hacks that have a finance degree that will tell you whatever their boss says is the policy du jour. Also, you refuse to acknowledge that the most successful democrat in the last 60 years (Kennedy) ... agreed that lowering taxes was the way to stimulate a failing economy.
3. Dood... You can't be serious. Answer this question: Who writes the checks? I'll answer for you since you prolly don't know or won't admit it. The congress. For how many years of the last 60 have the Republicans been in controll of the checkbook? Um... 8? For how many of the last 60 years has the budget been balanced? Hmm.. it was the last 4 of the years the Repubs had the checkbook. Coincidence? NOPE! lol. Facts just suck, don't they?
4. For ALL of the years that the Dems had BOTH Congress and the White house (The Repubs have never had such luxury except Bush's first few) How many times have their been recessions? Oh yea, every single time except when Clinton was riding the dot com bubble...
Get some game... then come back and make more stuff up, please.
02-26-09 02:08 PM - This cannot go un-addressed. YOU need to do an internet search and see how Republicans led by.. hmm.. who was it.. oh yea, John McCain said, "We need to do something about these lending practices before it collapses." .. in 2006... and who was helping lead the charge to keep Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac making loans that they KNEW were insolvent... But of course, it was Senor NoBama. One of the few things he actually voted on in Congress was to keep the practice of making BAD LOANS going and going and going...There probably is some pork in the stimulus bill, but it isn't shameless welfare for already rich bankers. We gave them 700 thousand million dollars to free up credit and what did they do with it? We tried cutting taxes on the rich and what did they do?
They turned around and conned even more from the less sophisticated poor by pushing mortgages they could not hope to repay - do an internet search of how much money was really dumped into the economy to sell those mortgages, and the biggest players were not known by first names.
Those same people turned those mortgages into investment instruments doomed to fail from the beginning because there was no oversight. Then we give them half a trillion dollars to recover and jump start the economy, what did they do with the money? Down a rat hole, none of it was released to spur credit, but plenty of bonuses got paid.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com02-26-09 02:14 PM - Now on to facts, eh? Repubs like to say congress, like Barney Frank and Sen Chris Dodd blocked the federal housing reform act and therefore allowed Freddy and fanny to continue unregulated. The fact remains the bill made it out of committee, but never came to a vote in the REPUBLICAN controlled Senate in 2005. The Repubs blocked it before there was even a debate.
There is a lot of blame to pass around, here's a partial bipartisan list from the Economist, that bastion of , er, liberal thought
As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with*hard-working homeowners*and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:� The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.� Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.� Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.� Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.� The Clinton administration, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.� Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.� Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.� Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.� The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.� An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.� Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult
Lots of people want to assign blame, but there's plenty to go around on both sides. My point is is something must be done. You had your chance, now move aside and give the guy a chance. If he doesn't do it, I'll be the first to vote against him.
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com02-26-09 02:59 PM
