02-08-09 11:38 PM
48 12
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  1. lakerz4lyfe's Avatar
    It's good that these rules have been implemented to possibly reduce scammers. Too bad the idea wasn't implemented sooner (probably would have had a lot less complainers)!
    02-08-09 01:28 AM
  2. noah85's Avatar
    lol I find it interesting how fickle these marketplace rules are. I don't understand how Crackberry takes no responsibility to the transactions taken within the Marketplace, yet they want to implement rules and regulations to ensure safe trading.

    Online transactions, or any transactions for that matter in my opinion is a risk - you take it or leave it. If you are not comfortable with it, then don't sell/buy/trade on this site.
    Which leads me to - if Crackberry is going to regulate rules they should really implement something solid to absolutely ensure marketplace safety instead of just asking us and looking around other sites for suggestions. Granted, it is a good idea to ask the consumers for opinions, but decisions that lead to a company's credibility, or in this case - this website, isn't a great idea. IF this is a public forum for blackberry users - fine, let it stay that way. I think the requirements for the marketplace should go away. However, if this is going to be a regulated pursue of safety, and Crackberry can back up what they are insisting of rules and requirements, fine - I can wait 3 months + 200 posts.
    02-08-09 01:30 AM
  3. Mr. Elusive's Avatar
    Ignorance is bliss in situations such as these. 3 months does nothing, if someone really wants to exploit multiple marketplaces you aren't going to be able to stop it taking these measures regardless of how many posts or months you try to defer them. Do you really think it is that difficult to create multiple accounts and let them sit for 3 months? Maybe they already have, if so your new rules are already out the window because they are already prepared for them. People that have no experience in fraud prevention shouldn't be attempting to do so at a large level such as cb otherwise they will fail as you have. My posting in here to boost your count was sarcasm, I'm sorry that you took it seriously. If I'm never in off topic how would I know if it does or doesn't effect your post count? With the newly established rules you are trying to portray the image that an "established" member with a post count and 3 months of activity won't scam you. Which is absolutely ridiculous.

    I offered advice to help both cb and its users 1 generating an additional source of revenue for cb and 2 by making transactions safe for a change to its members.

    All aboard the failboat!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by Mr. Elusive; 02-08-09 at 09:41 AM.
    02-08-09 09:38 AM
  4. jdoc77's Avatar
    I offered advice to help both cb and its users 1 generating an additional source of revenue for cb and 2 by making transactions safe for a change to its members.
    Donde esta el linko to your advice and help por favor... Just curious.
    02-08-09 09:50 AM
  5. Mr. Elusive's Avatar
    Donde esta el linko to your advice and help por favor... Just curious.
    It was sent in an email to kevin, I didn't post it on the forum.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-09 09:53 AM
  6. jdoc77's Avatar
    I'm just curious to see what advice and help the mod team rejected... that's all.
    02-08-09 09:55 AM
  7. tracksforhire's Avatar
    what marketplace are you guys talking about?
    02-08-09 09:59 AM
  8. Mr. Elusive's Avatar
    The worthless one located here: http://forums.crackberry.com/f14/

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-09 10:33 AM
  9. YourMobileGuru's Avatar
    Ignorance is bliss in situations such as these. 3 months does nothing, if someone really wants to exploit multiple marketplaces you aren't going to be able to stop it taking these measures regardless of how many posts or months you try to defer them. Do you really think it is that difficult to create multiple accounts and let them sit for 3 months? Maybe they already have, if so your new rules are already out the window because they are already prepared for them. People that have no experience in fraud prevention shouldn't be attempting to do so at a large level such as cb otherwise they will fail as you have. My posting in here to boost your count was sarcasm, I'm sorry that you took it seriously. If I'm never in off topic how would I know if it does or doesn't effect your post count? With the newly established rules you are trying to portray the image that an "established" member with a post count and 3 months of activity won't scam you. Which is absolutely ridiculous.

    I offered advice to help both cb and its users 1 generating an additional source of revenue for cb and 2 by making transactions safe for a change to its members.

    All aboard the failboat!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I think you missed Kevin's point. These rules are not just about preventing fraud (as you pointed out there is always a way to get around rules) but but having both a post count requirement (and OT and market posts don't count toward that) AND time on the forums you are making it more likely that the person in question is actually an active member of the community, not someone who comes here mainly for selling stuff. Kevin was clear that the Marketplace was for community members to buy and sell with community members NOT outsiders. Reducing the possibility of fraud is just a pleasant side effect of that.
    02-08-09 12:18 PM
  10. Garz's Avatar
    Ignorance is bliss in situations such as these. 3 months does nothing, if someone really wants to exploit multiple marketplaces you aren't going to be able to stop it taking these measures regardless of how many posts or months you try to defer them. Do you really think it is that difficult to create multiple accounts and let them sit for 3 months? Maybe they already have, if so your new rules are already out the window because they are already prepared for them. People that have no experience in fraud prevention shouldn't be attempting to do so at a large level such as cb otherwise they will fail as you have. My posting in here to boost your count was sarcasm, I'm sorry that you took it seriously. If I'm never in off topic how would I know if it does or doesn't effect your post count? With the newly established rules you are trying to portray the image that an "established" member with a post count and 3 months of activity won't scam you. Which is absolutely ridiculous.

    I offered advice to help both cb and its users 1 generating an additional source of revenue for cb and 2 by making transactions safe for a change to its members.

    All aboard the failboat!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    If these new marketplace rules saves 1 person from getting scammed, then it was worth it. It will not stop every scammer but it will definately slow them down. We did listen to input on the forums and lowered it from 200 posts to 100. We are open to suggestions. Does not mean we will change it but we will listen. And if you do have any suggestions, I would recommend posting it here on the forums. It was us mods who asked for this to be put in place because we were getting PM's all the time from people getting scammed and we hate to see that. We had considered closing down the marketplace all together but we believe we came to a conclusion to keep it open with these new rules.
    02-08-09 12:36 PM
  11. Mr. Elusive's Avatar
    I think you missed Kevin's point. These rules are not just about preventing fraud (as you pointed out there is always a way to get around rules) but but having both a post count requirement (and OT and market posts don't count toward that) AND time on the forums you are making it more likely that the person in question is actually an active member of the community, not someone who comes here mainly for selling stuff. Kevin was clear that the Marketplace was for community members to buy and sell with community members NOT outsiders. Reducing the possibility of fraud is just a pleasant side effect of that.
    Lol as I said ignorance is bliss. The new rules make it easier to scam, not harder.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-09 12:40 PM
  12. Stop-N-Go's Avatar
    Lol as I said ignorance is bliss. The new rules make it easier to scam, not harder.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    What do you care? Why does this matter so much to you? You surely don't do anything in any other part of the forum. Your interest in the Marketplace says a lot. So howz about you just drop it and move on. If you don't like the policy go somewhere else. Seems to me like you're about the only one who has such a big problem with the new guidelines. Again, there are other places you can go. Get ghost....
    02-08-09 12:48 PM
  13. Blkbear's Avatar
    If these new marketplace rules saves 1 person from getting scammed, then it was worth it. It will not stop every scammer but it will definately slow them down. We did listen to input on the forums and lowered it from 200 posts to 100. We are open to suggestions. Does not mean we will change it but we will listen. And if you do have any suggestions, I would recommend posting it here on the forums. It was us mods who asked for this to be put in place because we were getting PM's all the time from people getting scammed and we hate to see that. We had considered closing down the marketplace all together but we believe we came to a conclusion to keep it open with these new rules.
    Here's my two cents.

    If it stops one person from getting scammed? Well that would of course be the person that does not read, sell or buy from the marketplace, where a potential scammer could be lurking, be he here for many years or has 20,000 posts. If you are getting PM from a lot of people getting scammed, then it may be way past time to remove the vector for the scamming to take place.

    Case in point, the guy that scammed a few people out of money to "help" a fellow long time CBer. He got a lot of money out of people here, and he wasn't even selling anything. I know this is a sore point for a lot of folks, but it needs to be brought up. Unless CB itself is raising money for someone, there should be no posts like that, same for sales of items, if there are as many complaints about scamming going to the CB mods. Since banning the person really does nothing, other than allowing them to come back under a new nickname, different IP address, to start fresh and groom the sheep for fleecing again (so to speak). And a smart scammer, is not going to give out any info that connects to him once the scam is done.

    So either let people post items for sale, or wanted here, or ask them to take such posts to Ebay or a like source. If the scamming happens there, it's up to Ebay to help. Not much CrackBerry can do AFTER the fact, and really not much they can do to prevent it before the fact, especially if the scammer is already here and meets the posting/activity requirements.

    A bit more than two cents, but I think you get the point.
    02-08-09 01:07 PM
  14. Garz's Avatar
    Here's my two cents.

    If it stops one person from getting scammed? Well that would of course be the person that does not read, sell or buy from the marketplace, where a potential scammer could be lurking, be he here for many years or has 20,000 posts. If you are getting PM from a lot of people getting scammed, then it may be way past time to remove the vector for the scamming to take place.

    Case in point, the guy that scammed a few people out of money to "help" a fellow long time CBer. He got a lot of money out of people here, and he wasn't even selling anything. I know this is a sore point for a lot of folks, but it needs to be brought up. Unless CB itself is raising money for someone, there should be no posts like that, same for sales of items, if there are as many complaints about scamming going to the CB mods. Since banning the person really does nothing, other than allowing them to come back under a new nickname, different IP address, to start fresh and groom the sheep for fleecing again (so to speak). And a smart scammer, is not going to give out any info that connects to him once the scam is done.

    So either let people post items for sale, or wanted here, or ask them to take such posts to Ebay or a like source. If the scamming happens there, it's up to Ebay to help. Not much CrackBerry can do AFTER the fact, and really not much they can do to prevent it before the fact, especially if the scammer is already here and meets the posting/activity requirements.

    A bit more than two cents, but I think you get the point.
    In the 7 months that I have been a mod, I can only recall 1 buyer getting scammed from a member with over 100 posts. All others were with people that only had very few posts. You need to have 100 post and be a member 3 months to post in the marketplace. Most scammers are going to have new accounts. But like you stated, there could be a scammer who meets the requirements but it will be less likely now.
    02-08-09 01:22 PM
  15. Mr. Elusive's Avatar
    Point of deleting my post?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-09 01:44 PM
  16. Garz's Avatar
    Point of deleting my post?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    What are you talking about?
    02-08-09 01:47 PM
  17. Mr. Elusive's Avatar
    In the 7 months that I have been a mod, I can only recall 1 buyer getting scammed from a member with over 100 posts. All others were with people that only had very few posts. You need to have 100 post and be a member 3 months to post in the marketplace. Most scammers are going to have new accounts. But like you stated, there could be a scammer who meets the requirements but it will be less likely now.
    That's the kind of thinking that makes it easier for scammers.

    Case in point; a scammer has established an account, has 500 posts, and has been a member for 3 months as per your new requirement. What does this lead to? Trust, trust that shouldn't be granted due to post count but unfortunately you have granted it. Now, because of their post count members are less likely to think twice prior to dealing with them. Rather than make it more of a preventative measure scamming will probably increase come 3 months from now when it is easier to do so.

    If you weren't oblivious to how the real world operates rather than the take on it that you have you'd be able to recognize this.

    As I said, the new rules are leading to a failure. When it occurs it'll more than likely be epic and lesson learning.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-09 01:50 PM
  18. Mr. Elusive's Avatar
    What are you talking about?
    I replied to stop-n-go, it was deleted.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-09 01:52 PM
  19. Garz's Avatar
    That's the kind of thinking that makes it easier for scammers.

    Case in point; a scammer has established an account, has 500 posts, and has been a member for 3 months as per your new requirement. What does this lead to? Trust, trust that shouldn't be granted due to post count but unfortunately you have granted it. Now, because of their post count members are less likely to think twice prior to dealing with them. Rather than make it more of a preventative measure scamming will probably increase come 3 months from now when it is easier to do so.

    If you weren't oblivious to how the real world operates rather than the take on it that you have you'd be able to recognize this.

    As I said, the new rules are leading to a failure. When it occurs it'll more than likely be epic and lesson learning.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Nobody is forcing you to sell or buy here. There always Ebay if you dont like the rules.
    02-08-09 01:53 PM
  20. Jared DiPane's Avatar
    I'm not getting a good feeling from Mr. Elusive. Something is not right about how worried he is about this.

    IMO, if you dont like the rules, dont hang around, go hit up craigslist or ebay and do business there!
    02-08-09 03:24 PM
  21. AŁaric's Avatar
    If you weren't oblivious to how the real world operates rather than the take on it that you have you'd be able to recognize this.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Do you honeslty believe that a scammer would invest that kind of time and effort to stiff someone? If so, it's you who is oblivious.

    The rules have already been relaxed, yet you persist in ******** and whinning without even once (in this thread at least) offering an alternative solution.

    You keep going on about loss of traffic and revenue, but if you actually read Kevin's replies you'd see that that's NOT the intent of the Marketplace. They have ShopCrackberry for that.

    I appreciate the effort that the Mods have made to mitigate the risk that is inherent to the Marketplace. And the rules are no more or less stringent than many other boards I've frequented and moderated.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    02-08-09 03:54 PM
  22. noah85's Avatar
    Here's a suggestion ...

    seems like a lot of people are disappointed with restrictions and some are happy with it. Here's what I think -

    From what I've seen, it appears that transactions where the seller is the one who's scamming is a frequent occurrence as opposed to the buyer. Honestly, I don't quite see how a Buyer can try to scam the seller out of his/her merchandise. Therefore, I believe it would be fair to say that the Seller should have some sort of post requirements + some other cb member to quote their previous business transactions. As for the Buyer, I think the same rules should not apply since most, if not all transactions when dealt with Paypal are secure for the seller. If anything, it should be mandated that Buyers must use Paypal as a payment method to provide a security for the seller via a third-party - i.e. Paypal.

    As far as those looking to Trade merchandises, I think the rules should apply. Since trading is more of a risk factor, discussing who sends out merchandise first, trading should be on a more familiar level. What do you guys think?
    02-08-09 05:45 PM
  23. Blkbear's Avatar
    Do you honeslty believe that a scammer would invest that kind of time and effort to stiff someone? If so, it's you who is oblivious.
    Yup I do think a scammer can and will stick around with 10, 100 or 2000 posts. It can, it has and will happen again. And not just in the marketplace here on CB and not just of CB.

    http://forums.crackberry.com/f2/give...17/index2.html

    The above thread goes to show, just what a scammer is willing to do, here or on any website. The rules will help keep the honest people honest, that's about it. Look at the people that Madoff scammed, some of the brightest, well informed people around the world, got taken in. Granted the Marketplace is not Wall Street, but $20 to one man is the same as $50 mil to another, when scammed out of it.

    The rules have already been relaxed, yet you persist in ******** and whinning without even once (in this thread at least) offering an alternative solution.
    ....stuff deleted....
    I can see where he and others are coming from when they ask, what's going to stop it from happening again, other than using a site made for trading, selling and buying.

    Personally I would hope it would be left up to the marketplace posters to deal with all trading and buying selling off CB. Post a note saying I have XYZ, contact me at [email protected], no pricing, nothing, just I have X contact me. And to not come back to CB if they get robbed, because in truth, what can CB do really? Unless the scammer was stupid and posted real contact info, there is no way to get ahold of or find them after the fact.

    I appreciate the effort that the Mods have made to mitigate the risk that is inherent to the Marketplace. And the rules are no more or less stringent than many other boards I've frequented and moderated.
    Yes the MODs are doing a pretty good job, but in the end, there is no way for them to verify a scammer's true ID, or contact info before they scam, and certainly not after the scam happens.

    I have a feeling that people are not going to want to have to verify info before posting in any forum, let alone the Marketplace. Nor use a third party to handle money and equipment between users. And I know CB does not want that roll, so who? What do you use to verify a posters ID... photo copies of drivers license? Copy of current bills with home address? DNA?

    Don't get me wrong, the marketplace is what it is, a buyer beware spot for folks that want to use it. With or without rules, scams are going to happen. But in the end, what can be said to the folks that do get scammed? "Better luck next time." or "Gee sorry about that X you got scammed out of." seem a little, well not helpful. And even with IP tracking, you can still end up at a dead end when it's leads to a free wifi spot or library.
    02-08-09 11:38 PM
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