1. idssteve's Avatar
    It's because 5G is seen as the enemy of BB.

    Just like retina displays were the enemy of BB many years ago. On CB there were lots of discussions about how 300dpi was stupid in phones or even harmful. Then BB finally got 300+ dpi and those discussions ended.

    Same story with ARMv8 (64-bit arm).
    Lol... idk how 300dpi or ARM can be viewed as "enemy" of BB but maybe simple resistance to "new" ? Idk

    I DO resent 5G. NOT because it's "new". But because refarming 3G to make room for 5G is killing off some hardware that I REALY like. Hardware that will NOT be replaced. I'd welcome a 5G Bold, tho. Lol.

    Since I simply don't care for virtually ANYthing that 5G promises to "improve", I view it as a step backward that promises to (and already HAS) degrade functions that I REALY value.

    My lone vote means less than nothing to the masses that will perceive value, tho. That's life. Lol.
    Last edited by idssteve; 01-22-22 at 06:24 AM.
    01-22-22 02:22 AM
  2. idssteve's Avatar
    Maybe you're right, and I guess the fact that paying attention to what's going on with 5G has just been more on the minds of those that are still also thinking about BlackBerry.
    In addition to a long time BB user and abuser, I've been a life long aviation enthusiast. Also an amateur radio enthusiast. Car enthusiast too. Enthusiasts frequently enjoy discussing how the subject of their enthusiasm interacts with varied perspectives. Most of us enjoy multiple enthusiasms. Lol.
    Last edited by idssteve; 01-22-22 at 06:30 AM.
    bh7171 likes this.
    01-22-22 02:34 AM
  3. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    01-22-22 07:21 AM
  4. idssteve's Avatar
    That's the problem, don't know of a way to really search and remove malware once it get's into your brain. I look at what happens with some radicals on both sides of some topics, and it's clear that "malware" can affect people.


    Surefire cranial malware remover is trustworthy data as HONESTLY collected. AND a cranial processor practiced in hard math. Lol.

    The conclusions page is among the least relevant part of any legitimate report. The smudged up raw data sheets prove THE most relevant. Provide cranial processors with legitimately derived raw data. TRUE math will do the rest!

    Of course that might exclude cranial processors suffering "Common Core" infestations... Lol.
    Attached Thumbnails New 5G C Band causing some issues with airflight-common-core-math.jpg  
    anon(10512033) likes this.
    01-22-22 07:41 AM
  5. pdr733's Avatar
    Local tech press in my country (EU nation) reported about this controversy and remarked that in the EU, the harmonized frequency range for this kind of 5G is 3.4-3.8 Ghz, which means every EU country has to allocate frequencies destined for this purpose from this range.
    This would leave a wider guard band between the 5G and radio altimeters. If this is true, it might (partly) explain why the issue did not surface in Europe.
    app_Developer and idssteve like this.
    01-22-22 08:06 AM
  6. spARTacus's Avatar
    ...So maybe this wasn’t such a big deal in the first place?
    Perhaps not technically, but instead just the big dealness associated to some of the political aspects of what was going on, for why testing was maybe not started earlier and also why the buffer zones and restrictions where not earlier established (as had been done in other countries).

    -- "...Had not Secretary [of Transportation Pete] Buttigieg personally intervened and the White House personally intervened and forced the FAA to actually stand this process up, then they still wouldn't have stood it up on their own..."

    -- "...One of the first major concessions from AT&T and Verizon was to implement "C-band radio exclusion zones" around 50 US airports for six months, until Jully 5. The carriers also delayed their widespread rollout of C-band spectrum...we have voluntarily agreed to temporarily defer turning on a limited number of towers around certain airport runways as we continue to work with the aviation industry and the FAA to provide further information about our 5G deployment..."


    I sense that the FAA had a vision for how to approach the entire situation and the carriers had a different vision, and they didn't agree, and therefore a bunch of stuff then didn't progress, and then the last minute shat show.
    01-22-22 08:10 AM
  7. spARTacus's Avatar
    In addition to a long time BB user and abuser, I've been a life long aviation enthusiast. Also an amateur radio enthusiast. Car enthusiast too. Enthusiasts frequently enjoy discussing how the subject of their enthusiasm interacts with varied perspectives. Most of us enjoy multiple enthusiasms. Lol.
    Agree, but the folks over at AC must also have multiple enthusiasms, and just not use AC for posting beyond their Android ones (while folks here at CB seem willing to post about topics that approach beyond just their BlackBerry interests).
    01-22-22 08:15 AM
  8. spARTacus's Avatar
    ...This would leave a wider guard band between the 5G and radio altimeters. If this is true, it might (partly) explain why the issue did not surface in Europe.
    I wouldn't be surprised if in the US, the FAA would have also wanted that sort of approach as part of their vision, but the carriers instead wanted to squeeze as much as possible out of the airwaves for what they could then sell to users.
    01-22-22 08:30 AM
  9. idssteve's Avatar
    ������
    Ars Technica: Airline CEOs make U-turn, now say 5G isn’t a big problem for altimeters

    So maybe this wasn’t such a big deal in the first place?
    Landing is a "big deal". Knowing where the tarmac is proves mighty helpful under some conditions. Lol.

    If airlines are pronouncing these changes as "safe", how was this tested? Aircraft flying over our heads weren't proven "safe" thru deskchair pronouncements! Every last one of those craft designs were proven thu testing! ANY alteration demands re-testing. If we are to "know" rather than hope, that is. Lol.

    Who physically flew the actual aircraft over an actual cell tower and measured altimeter error? Against what altimeter standard? Laser? Has Traffic Control radar developed altitude capabilities? Lol.

    How many passes from how many directions were included in the testing? How many plane models were tested? Sub models?? Who donated the test planes? ?? Who's pilots flew the tests? Who PAID the test pilots to fly the tests? Who insured the pilot? Plane?? Local structures?? Who paid for the fuel? ??

    And THEN how were any modifications tested?

    It's not like FAA maintains a fleet of every imaginable plane to test this stuff on.

    FCC changed the rules. Expecting and industry built on real world testing to simply snap their fingers and accommodate those changes is the "big deal". Imo.

    Two years wouldn't scratch the surface of planning the testing that SHOULD be done. Imo. Suits behind desks will likely wave it off and pilots will get the craft on the tarmac SOMEhow. Lol.
    01-22-22 08:39 AM
  10. idssteve's Avatar
    Agree, but the folks over at AC must also have multiple enthusiasms, and just not use AC for posting beyond their Android ones (while folks here at CB seem willing to post about topics that approach beyond just their BlackBerry interests).
    I personally contend that collaborating device use experience demands a big picture of how these devices interact with "life". "Life" might seem off topic otherwise.

    Of course we, here at a site with an addictive sounding name, apply that "addiction" to all of life? Lol
    01-22-22 09:00 AM
  11. spARTacus's Avatar
    I personally contend that collaborating device use experience demands a big picture of how these devices interact with "life". "Life" might seem off topic otherwise.

    Of course we, here at a site with an addictive sounding name, apply that "addiction" to all of life? Lol
    I agree. I guess I was noting that maybe CB has already been friendly to such expanded discussions when other forums have not, and maybe also something for the CB reboot.
    01-22-22 09:16 AM
  12. idssteve's Avatar
    I agree. I guess I was noting that maybe CB has already been friendly to such expanded discussions when other forums have not, and maybe also something for the CB reboot.
    Maybe what keeps us addicted? Lol. Certainly what keeps me around here. For better AND worse? Lol
    01-22-22 09:20 AM
  13. spARTacus's Avatar
    ...FCC changed the rules. Expecting and industry built on real world testing to simply snap their fingers and accommodate those changes is the "big deal". Imo.

    Two years wouldn't scratch the surface of planning the testing that SHOULD be done. Imo. Suits behind desks will likely wave it off and pilots will get the craft on the tarmac SOMEhow. Lol.
    I don't disagree. I think there may have been some unrealistic expectations from folks that have maybe almost gotten used to agile type thinking and doing (if I could call it that), as opposed to actual deterministic approaches. Sometimes I wonder if we have also been seeing similar examples of this elsewhere. The risks associated with "engineering by PowerPoint" (ref the Columbia accident investigation) for example, and some of the thinking/approaches that seem to have gone on for about the 737Max situation for example, I find disturbing.
    01-22-22 09:26 AM
  14. anon(10512033)'s Avatar
    Just like retina displays were the enemy of BB many years ago. On CB there were lots of discussions about how 300dpi was stupid in phones or even harmful.
    This is off-topic and not intended to derail the conversation, but the reference to display technology triggered it.

    I will not buy a phone with an OLED screen. I'll take an IPS LCD and the lack of burn-in over punchy OLED blacks and colours every day. Given how my wife pauses her TV streams and walks away, I doubt I'll ever have an OLED TV!
    01-22-22 09:44 AM
  15. idssteve's Avatar
    I don't disagree. I think there may have been some unrealistic expectations from folks that have maybe almost gotten used to agile type thinking and doing (if I could call it that), as opposed to actual deterministic approaches. Sometimes I wonder if we have also been seeing similar examples of this elsewhere. The risks associated with "engineering by PowerPoint" (ref the Columbia accident investigation) for example, and some of the thinking/approaches that seem to have gone on for about the 737Max situation for example, I find disturbing.
    More than disturbing, imo. Easy to see Boeing's reluctance to condone untested altimeter pronouncements after their Max fiasco.

    My old M.E. dep head lived an engineering philosophy that REAL engineers get dirty! I shower before and AFTER work. Calculations and simulations prove essential. All the above plays its role. Before we turn a fresh plant over to client personnel, we've TESTed the whole operation. Just sop for us. Slightest alterations demand a re-test. And, of course, close review of production & reject rates. Obviously, reject rates for aircraft might be measured in body bag count? Lol

    Also, FAA's pretty practiced at writing the rules that nature herself doesn't dictate. Accommodating externally mandated rule changes might not fit well with their routine? Lol.
    01-22-22 09:57 AM
  16. idssteve's Avatar
    This is off-topic and not intended to derail the conversation, but the reference to display technology triggered it.

    I will not buy a phone with an OLED screen. I'll take an IPS LCD and the lack of burn-in over punchy OLED blacks and colours every day. Given how my wife pauses her TV streams and walks away, I doubt I'll ever have an OLED TV!
    Lol... this thread is located in "Off Topic lounge".
    anon(10512033) likes this.
    01-22-22 10:00 AM
  17. idssteve's Avatar
    This is off-topic and not intended to derail the conversation, but the reference to display technology triggered it.

    I will not buy a phone with an OLED screen. I'll take an IPS LCD and the lack of burn-in over punchy OLED blacks and colours every day. Given how my wife pauses her TV streams and walks away, I doubt I'll ever have an OLED TV!
    I routinely leave CAD drawings display all day & night ... during prolonged troubleshooting sessions, etc. Nice thing about multIple monitors. AND multIple devices! No oled for CAD stations for us. Lol.

    Every technology has its place. Chronology typically the bottom criteria... for truly optimising profIciency, imo.

    Chronology clearly played little role where FCC sold off bandwidth historically utilized by aviation. Whether licensed or no. FCC licences most typically apply to transmitters. Public, including Boeing, are "free to listen" at any frequency. No license required. Lol.

    The side of this I'm encountering more often is failure to document aspects of design. SOME aviation equipment has outlived the designers! Even if FCC asked FAA to inquire of Boeing et al about "listening" beyond documented frequencies, asking long deceased engineers might demand "supernatural" activities? Lol.


    Pictures might be worth thousands of words. Pictures AND thousands of words might prove priceless... lol

    Which is why Agent99 still proves priceless companion to left hand. Just verbally documenting otherwise undocumented aspects of design poorly illustrated with drawings themselves. Might demand more years than available without Agent99? ?? Lol.
    01-23-22 09:43 AM
  18. anon(10512033)'s Avatar
    The side of this I'm encountering more often is failure to document aspects of design. SOME aviation equipment has outlived the designers!
    This is often a problem with open source software too. People design great programs and then don't provide adequate documentation. You're left to puzzle your way through it.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    01-23-22 12:07 PM
  19. idssteve's Avatar
    This is often a problem with open source software too. People design great programs and then don't provide adequate documentation. You're left to puzzle your way through it.
    Sure. Documentation is never 100% adequate. Lol. Sometimes even a few words can clarify things... long after oem demise...

    Dujiangyan irrigation system outlived its designers by about 2200years. Words of instruction remain. Engraved in stone? Lol.

    "When the river flows in zigzags, cut a straight channel; when the riverbed is wide and shallow, dig it deeper."

    Words of hard experience from Steve...

    "when approaching perfection, change it least. When changed, TEST the dumned thing!!! "

    Lol.
    01-23-22 12:37 PM
  20. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Sure. Documentation is never 100% adequate. Lol. Sometimes even a few words can clarify things... long after oem demise...

    Dujiangyan irrigation system outlived its designers by about 2200years. Words of instruction remain. Engraved in stone? Lol.

    "When the river flows in zigzags, cut a straight channel; when the riverbed is wide and shallow, dig it deeper."

    Words of hard experience from Steve...

    "when approaching perfection, change it least. When changed, TEST the dumned thing!!! "

    Lol.
    The Incas……
    01-23-22 01:12 PM
  21. idssteve's Avatar
    The Incas……
    Hmm... actually, Dujiangyan irrigation system is in Sichuan, China. But yeah, Inca had developed fabulous accomplishments. Including education strategies for maintaining those accomplishments. Unfortunately, as with many cultures, their accomplishments apparently failed to mix charcoal-sulfur -saltpeter... with lies. A decisive handicap dealing with Pizarro? Among most despicable of conquistadors. Imo.

    A retired coworker dabbles with "Myan Math". More like geometry, actually. Untapped potential there. They never really developed π as a number but might didn't need to? Too bad better documentation wasn't preserved.

    That coworker spent some time with a friend of Terence McKenna, many yrs ago... I frequently tease that "Common Core Math" surely derived from "Time Wave Zero" ...? lol.

    The concept of a generation failing to grasp key concepts like radio altimeter frequency demands might fit into "Time Wave Zero" prophecies? Lol.
    01-23-22 03:35 PM
  22. SunnyB's Avatar
    This is often a problem with open source software too. People design great programs and then don't provide adequate documentation. You're left to puzzle your way through it.
    So true.
    anon(10512033) likes this.
    01-25-22 01:46 PM
  23. Grabber5.0's Avatar
    This is often a problem with open source software too. People design great programs and then don't provide adequate documentation. You're left to puzzle your way through it.
    I'm a developer. What is this "documentation" you speak of?
    01-26-22 08:16 AM
  24. app_Developer's Avatar
    I'm a developer. What is this "documentation" you speak of?
    Is that where you write all that non-deterministic stuff that the compiler just ignores anyway? Pfffft..
    01-26-22 09:51 AM
  25. idssteve's Avatar
    I'm a developer. What is this "documentation" you speak of?
    I'm an engineer... what documentation is needed? Lol. If a contractor just builds according to prints & specs, it'll work. Right? Lol. If the client then needs to alter the design, and NO one besides ME understands the design, then clients get to pay me, or a colleague, to re-engineer and re-contract the whole dumned thing! Think of the job security and income incentives for NOT documenting design strategies under a design!! Lol.
    app_Developer likes this.
    01-26-22 12:19 PM
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