06-07-10 01:12 PM
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  1. Undisputed's Avatar
    So the reason I'm writing this is because I would like an unbiased point of view.

    First off I'm not a big guy, 5'5 120lbs, and I'm also not the kind of guy that goes around looking or getting into fights, I'm usually the nice guy who tries to get along with everyone. With that said I do have a slight temper and I have always stood up for myself, a lot of times it wasn't the smartest thing to do and there were better ways to deal with the situation.

    Now for my rant...

    Last night at around 2:30am I couldn't sleep so I decided to go grab some food from a 24 hour diner and walk down to a park and just eat and relax, don't ask why I was just in that kind of mood, LoL.

    I grabbed my food from the diner and started walking, take into consideration that this is in downtown Toronto and I was walking down a major street that always has cop cars doing patrols. Some guy, about 20 years old, about 5'7' and 140lbs, came up and asked me if I had any money since he was hungry and had just left a homeless shelter. I gave him $20 and took a few cigarettes from my pack and gave him whatever was left from the pack since he was really polite and again I was in a good mood. I kept walking down and I noticed he was beginning to follow me and he started acting really shady, he had his hand in his pocket and he seemed to be gripping something, and he kept looking back, I assume to see if anyone was behind us. I felt like something was going to happen and decided I'd flag down and cab and just go home but there were no cabs around at all, generally there are cabs all over the place at this time. The guy then came up and asked me if I could give me another $20 and I politely said I didn't have anymore money and kept walking. He then ran in front of me got in my face and said "have you ever been robbed?" while grabbing my collar, and remember his hand was still in his pocket and at this point I won't lie...I got scared thinking he had a knife. Normally, I'd become aggressive but I was so shocked and scared I just started telling him that I really had nothing else on me, I had my iPhone and about $100 in cash (I know not a smart idea).

    I don't know how I came up with this idea but I decided I'd tell him I had a friend who lived around here and that he would lend him some money, and he fell for this and calmed down again. However, there is a police station that I was planning to hang around, with a condo behind it, and I figured I'd just stall until I saw a cop. Long story short the walk back went well and he didn't do anything but his hand was still in his pocket. It took about a half hour of us waiting, I told him my friend was getting off work and we'd wait outside his condo, until I finally saw two officers arguing with a guy who seemed to be drunk and I told him I saw a guy I knew across the street and instead of waiting for my other friend who lived in the condo to come home we'd just walk and catch up to him and I'd ask him for money and give it to him. The only reason I said this was so that we'd walk by the cops and then I could just tell them what was going on. As we approached the cops I just said something along the lines of "sorry sir but this guy has been following me around for the past 30 minutes and said he was going to rob me and kept asking for money." Now it's hard to describe how the area was situated but the officer got in my face and said "he wanted to rob you and you kept walking with him for 30 minutes? You walk that way" and then he pointed to the other guy and said "you walk the other way". I tried explaining to the cop that I was scared and was just trying to keep him calm until I found a cop but he kept talking over me. To be honest I admit maybe this wasn't the smartest thing for me to do but it was the only thing that came to my mind when he grabbed me. And I also don't want to say the cop didn't care or was being rude because I could tell the drunk guy he was dealing with had pissed him off and again I'm sure my story seemed shady to him, I mean when we were walking toward the cops it looked like we were two friends. I was pretty tired and still scared/in shock and didn't want anymore problems and asked if I could just wait with him until I got a cab and he told me to wait by his car and he'd drive me home after he finished with the other guy, and he did. At first I was upset at the officer for not letting me tell my side of the story and letting the guy walk but again I understand his position and I'm sure if I was in his shoes I'd be weary of my story as well.

    Anyways, I got out of the situation and I personally think I was smart about how I dealt with the guy who said he was going to rob me. There is a good chance he didn't have a knife, I never saw it, and he never said he did but I didn't want to risk finding out the hard way.

    I told this story to a few people and they all seem to either think I handled the situation well or the think I should have either ran and found an open store and asked for help. I'm curious to see what you guys think and what would you guys do if you were in my shoes?
    06-02-10 07:12 PM
  2. Radius's Avatar
    Going to the cops was a good idea. Failing that, the only real thing you could have done is committed to an action like striking his eyes as you say you're not a big idea and probably aren't a black belt in 7 deadly martial arts.

    Around where i live we get a lot of people like this. It's a nice area but the drug addicts gravitate towards this area as they have nowhere else to go. I have been approached a number of times in the way you describe and the only thing that saves me is I'm 6'1", 225lbs and wear steel toe work boots. In general, I square off against them and tell them to eff off if they know what's good for them.

    Even that is stupid though and I don't advise it to anyone. In general just avoid being in those places at that time. It's not always practical but overall you got lucky. One rule about mixing it up with someone who has a knife is you always get cut, and it's no fun.

    I might also advise in the future that you tell them you don't carry cash, you're a debit kinda guy. Company policy, whatever. I use that excuse a lot. I'm a non smoker too, whatever. The point being is once you reveal you have excess to give away, then to those people you obviously have more. You don't want them thinking that.
    06-02-10 07:40 PM
  3. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    Next time, don't give the guy anything in the first place. Offer to go to a restaurant and buy food, but money will likely be squandered on something anyway.

    Don't turn your back on this guy, and you should have called the cops as he was approaching you in the first place and definitely at the very least after he started following you. Finally, shoot the guy in the face/head/upper chest the moment he becomes aggressive and threatens you and continue until he has stopped his aggressive actions. That is the most effective way I can think of to say "I'd rather you not do that".

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    Last edited by the_sandman_454; 06-02-10 at 08:46 PM.
    06-02-10 08:32 PM
  4. 12MaNy's Avatar
    You're are lucky man. That guy could've gotten impatient and decided to just stab you, then rifle though your pockets after the fact. Judging by your size, you could've easily out ran him (I know I would've if I was your size). I'm glad you're ok man, but next time...run.

    I'm lucky I'm a pretty big scary looking dude (6'1 220 lbs..not fat either) and I don't get hassled much by street folk. I think the fact that I stare people in the eye as I walk past them helps send a message as well.

    Posted from my BlackBerry using BerryBlab
    06-02-10 08:52 PM
  5. SterlingArcher's Avatar
    i go to bed by 11pm and carry a sig sauer 226 when awake.
    06-02-10 08:53 PM
  6. 12MaNy's Avatar
    I would also consider either taking some self defense classes, or getting a conceiled weapons permit.

    Posted from my BlackBerry using BerryBlab
    06-02-10 09:10 PM
  7. Heavy Fluid's Avatar
    You don't meet anyone good on the streets anywhere at 2:30 am, no matter where you are. Next time, either go with a friend, or don't go.
    06-02-10 09:55 PM
  8. cain0013's Avatar
    You never really know how you will react to a situation, until you have been put in that situation. If you are in a park, in a city, at 2:30 AM ; something like this is very likely to happen. I think you got lucky. I'm glad you didn't get hurt. Self defence classes and a concealed weapons permit are certainly a good idea. I've taken martial arts for a very long time. Its good for your mind and your body. I also have a concealed weapons permit. Its just good to have. The best advice I can give you is to not put yourself in a dangerous situation to begin with. The next time you wake up hungry at 2:30 AM, make yourself a sandwich and go back to bed.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-02-10 10:16 PM
  9. Radius's Avatar
    You never really know how you will react to a situation, until you have been put in that situation. If you are in a park, in a city, at 2:30 AM ; something like this is very likely to happen. I think you got lucky. I'm glad you didn't get hurt. Self defence classes and a concealed weapons permit are certainly a good idea. I've taken martial arts for a very long time. Its good for your mind and your body. I also have a concealed weapons permit. Its just good to have. The best advice I can give you is to not put yourself in a dangerous situation to begin with. The next time you wake up hungry at 2:30 AM, make yourself a sandwich and go back to bed.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    He's a Canuck like me, no concealed anything permit. Here we can't carry guns or knives for self defense.

    And ya, I know you Yanks are different and I don't want to start a debate on that. Suffice it to say we know our guns and we have more than you do per household. Anyhow, it's not an option here.

    I know a few people informally here (bus stop pals, etc) who have been robbed in my area and it's actually pretty much the same MO. They give a bit and the guy things they should give more. As you say, best not to put yourself in that situation.

    12MaNy: Us non-fat arses need to stick together and protect these people. I say we get us some guns and go to work.
    06-02-10 10:44 PM
  10. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    Don't give them anything to start with, and consider a cane, walking stick, pepper spray, taser, or whatever Canadians are allowed to carry in that event.

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    06-02-10 10:55 PM
  11. cain0013's Avatar
    He's a Canuck like me, no concealed anything permit. Here we can't carry guns or knives for self defense.

    And ya, I know you Yanks are different and I don't want to start a debate on that. Suffice it to say we know our guns and we have more than you do per household. Anyhow, it's not an option here.

    I know a few people informally here (bus stop pals, etc) who have been robbed in my area and it's actually pretty much the same MO. They give a bit and the guy things they should give more. As you say, best not to put yourself in that situation.

    12MaNy: Us non-fat arses need to stick together and protect these people. I say we get us some guns and go to work.
    Somehow I missed the Toronto part. So a concealed weapon is out of the question. I'm sure you guys are well armed, but I'm from Virginia. The average household in my area has a small armoury. Lol. I agree that the different gun laws are not worth debating. I hate to hear about all of the robberies in your area. These are difficult times for everyone, no matter where you are from.

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    06-02-10 11:10 PM
  12. Mavis Fesselmeyer's Avatar
    First and foremost, I'm glad you didn't get cut.

    Second, in hindsight, I think the important lesson is there are some poor choices one can make as to where to enjoy a middle of the night snack....ie: the bears den at the zoo, an abandoned crack house, dark parks.

    One time in college I was minding my own, having a 6 piece McNugget in a dark alley. Some dude rolls up and I sensed danger. So I immediately started flailing my arms wildly and making really loud HI-Yaaaaaa! Eiiiiiii-yeeee-HA noises. Now I'm only 5'3" so I have to overexaggerate to get my point across that you really don't want a piece of this. But luckily it worked.

    Not sure where I'm going with this other than it seemed like you kept your head on a swivle and that's good. Next time A. Get your food (and I hope it was poutine) and go home or B. Throw whatever it is they want away from you and when they go for it, use that as your chance to run! Screaming rape doesn't hurt either. Seeing a dude running down the street clutching a sack of food whilst screaming rape would certainly get MY attention.

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    06-03-10 12:59 AM
  13. xxxxpradaxxxx's Avatar
    Well, the first obvious thing I'd say that you did wrong was, walk alone, late at night in a city. Especially given that you stated you were "smaller".

    Predatory people normally seek out those who seem more "prey-like", or who are easier "targets".

    Not saying that since you're a smaller guy, there's anything wrong, but we're talking about seizing up people here.

    Would you pick out a big guy? Or the smaller guy?

    Ideally we would always avoid dark alleyways, and poorly lit parking lots, but this is life and seldom do we get to play in ideal situations.

    Next thing I would think you did wrong was give the man anything.

    If a person approaches me for money, I automatically either apologize and tell them I have none, or in an ideal situation avoid eye contact and pretend I didn't hear them and keep walking. (Normally in crowded public places)

    It's a common ploy for someone to ask for money simply to get a person to take out their wallet. Then BLAM snatches it and runs off.

    I don't care what anyone says, a person can be a black belt, but when they are confronted by a mugger, it is often by surprise.

    Adrenaline kicks in, their focus narrows, their body tenses.

    No karate at that point will save them. The brain turns into a clenched muscle with limited thought activity.

    This is why much more realistic martial arts styles aim to condition a person to aim their kicks at knees, shins, palms to the nose, and eye socket.

    If a person approaches you with a weapon, comply and negotiate.

    If thats not possible, and they have a knife, accept that you will be stabbed.

    Palm them in the nose or throat, and run.

    I don't care how big a man is, you palm him in the nose, his eyes will tear ferociously and he will be preoccupied with his face for a few moments.

    Its much more difficult to be killed in real life than they make it seem in the movies.

    If a person has a gun, run like the wind! Statistically speaking, the likelihood of being shot will running away is very low.

    So to answer your question, you apparently did what was best in that situation.

    Solely because you survived unscathed. Don't be stupid again

    Survival is the highest law!
    Last edited by xxxxpradaxxxx; 06-03-10 at 01:04 AM.
    06-03-10 01:00 AM
  14. xxxxpradaxxxx's Avatar
    Screaming rape doesn't hurt either. Seeing a dude running down the street clutching a sack of food whilst screaming rape would certainly get MY attention.
    On a side note, my grandmother always told me about a really nifty trick when it comes to rape.

    If a r a p i s t actually overcomes you and is "in the motion" tell him you have AIDs.

    See his reaction lolol!

    This is obviously a joke.
    06-03-10 01:06 AM
  15. Radius's Avatar
    First and foremost, I'm glad you didn't get cut.

    Second, in hindsight, I think the important lesson is there are some poor choices one can make as to where to enjoy a middle of the night snack....ie: the bears den at the zoo, an abandoned crack house, dark parks.

    One time in college I was minding my own, having a 6 piece McNugget in a dark alley. Some dude rolls up and I sensed danger. So I immediately started flailing my arms wildly and making really loud HI-Yaaaaaa! Eiiiiiii-yeeee-HA noises. Now I'm only 5'3" so I have to overexaggerate to get my point across that you really don't want a piece of this. But luckily it worked.

    Not sure where I'm going with this other than it seemed like you kept your head on a swivle and that's good. Next time A. Get your food (and I hope it was poutine) and go home or B. Throw whatever it is they want away from you and when they go for it, use that as your chance to run! Screaming rape doesn't hurt either. Seeing a dude running down the street clutching a sack of food whilst screaming rape would certainly get MY attention.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    No worries, I will scream rape and you make off with the poutine.

    Seriously, when a grown man screams rape when another man approaches him it changes the game. Especially when my pants come off. Stupid but effective.
    06-03-10 01:06 AM
  16. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    No worries, I will scream rape and you make off with the poutine.

    Seriously, when a grown man screams rape when another man approaches him it changes the game. Especially when my pants come off. Stupid but effective.
    You had better keep your pants on, lest they think you're the raper, not the rapee. Haha

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    06-03-10 01:10 AM
  17. Mavis Fesselmeyer's Avatar
    No worries, I will scream rape and you make off with the poutine.

    Seriously, when a grown man screams rape when another man approaches him it changes the game. Especially when my pants come off. Stupid but effective.
    Now that sounds like some WIN-WIN role playing action right there!

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    06-03-10 01:11 AM
  18. Radius's Avatar
    Now that sounds like some WIN-WIN role playing action right there!

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    lol

    Yes, and I do allow cameras to be present. It's up to you.
    06-03-10 01:37 AM
  19. LazyStarGazer's Avatar
    @ Undisputed: You got yourself into that situation, and you got yourself out of it. I think you're lucky the guy you were dealing with was not too bright, or maybe a few fries short of a happy meal.

    Overall, Toronto is still a fairly safe city, but, **** happens.
    You were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    Also, NEVER pull your wallet out for these people.
    If you give them anything, make it pocket change, a buck, maybe two.

    When I've gone out for walks late at night, I put a screwdriver in my pocket.
    'cause I was fixing something at home, and must have forgot it in my coat pocket.
    06-03-10 06:17 AM
  20. the_sandman_454's Avatar
    Under no circumstances should you ever allow them to get close enough to hand anything to a stranger like that, either. Toss it on the ground and leave quickly if you're insistent on giving them something.

    It seems unfriendly but you do not want this person close enough to grab your shirt, wrist, etc and hold you in close if they have a weapon, or even just their fists.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-03-10 07:32 AM
  21. highjakker's Avatar
    you already got alot of useful tips and some mild hand-slapping (maybe even something else slapped by Mavis) so i won't go there. the important thing is you got away. next time when/if they grab you and are in your face- a quick hard headbutt to the nose will work beautifully. and if you find that you have to punch them...aim for their adams apple.
    06-03-10 09:48 AM
  22. xxxxpradaxxxx's Avatar
    I'm against the concept of punching an attacker.

    Far to many people don't know how to punch, and wind up breaking their hand.

    Especially in violent encounters were you react quickly.
    06-03-10 10:05 AM
  23. Mavis Fesselmeyer's Avatar
    I'm against the concept of punching an attacker.

    Far to many people don't know how to punch, and wind up breaking their hand.
    Especially in violent encounters were you react quickly.
    thumbs out! THUMBS OUT!
    06-03-10 10:10 AM
  24. 12MaNy's Avatar
    I am in favor of punching a mugger's head off..if one has the tools to get the job done. However, know your limits. If the mugger's packing a gun, just hand over the wallet. I dont care how tough or mean you are...you cant kick a bullet's a$$.

    Personally, I probably would've went savage on that poor mugger and ended up taking a piece of him home with me as a souvenir, but then again...I'm Irish and stupid.
    06-03-10 10:15 AM
  25. xxxxpradaxxxx's Avatar
    thumbs out! THUMBS OUT!
    Hahaha Yes and half the time the majority of people don't know that they shouldn't hit with their whole fist.

    The two last knuckles are very weak and shouldn't be used in a punch lol

    Punching someone in the head, shoulders, or any other firm part could easily break your hand.

    In a fight theres a lot of movement, and your not always garunteed to hit where you intended.

    Human beings naturally put their hands up when scared.

    So it's much more natural as a reflex to palm an attacker.

    You also have the side benefit of not hurting yourself when you palm a ****** in the head.
    06-03-10 10:55 AM
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