[conite]

Here we go again. You don't need to give me further reading professor, I see what the quality of phone photos are. There's nothing 'major' or 'leaps and bounds' in the photo quality between now and years past. You migh think it's Very impressive, but that's your opinion. Improvement exists but nothing that is raising the status of phone cameras in the world of photography. You might Just be used to poor image quality from a decade of being inundated with phone photos on every social média platform out there. The bar's been set Very low for 'good'. I hope the 'innovations' you reference will come to be and we actually see something 'major'.

Posted via CB10

Have you actually used any of these phones?

[ajokurvanyad]

Have you actually used any of these phones?

Do you mean have I used phones from the last decade? Quite a few. What I've seen more of is photos from the most randomized sample group you could come up with, daily, for years.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

Do you mean have I used phones from the last decade? Quite a few. What I've seen more of is photos from the most randomized sample group you could come up with, daily, for years.

Posted via CB10

I mean a mid-range modern phone with multiple cameras and pixel-binning on the main.

[ajokurvanyad]

I mean a mid-range modern phone with multiple cameras and pixel-binning on the main.

Don't know pixel-binning or which phones have them, but I have used multi camera phones. What I have done more of is see and work with the photos coming out of them.

Posted via CB10

[conite]

Don't know pixel-binning or which phones have them, but I have used multi camera phones. What I have done more of is see and work with the photos coming out of them.

Posted via CB10

So, back to trusting your gut with unknown photos rather than accepting the actual supporting data.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

All I have to do is look at the last quarter decade I've been using digital cameras or phones. I can't tell too big of a jump from my Galaxy S7 to iPhone XR - but indoor shots or much better on the XR. But from my dumb phone to my Palm, huge jump. From my 9650 to Z10 a huge jump again. Even from my Z10 to my Droid Turbo 2 there was a noticeable improvement.

But I lost at to how this brings back BB10.... hate to think of how big a team it would take to do photo processing software.

[ajokurvanyad]

So, back to trusting your gut with unknown photos rather than accepting the actual supporting data.

Sure you stick with your spreadsheets of 'data' you have, I'll stick with the real world experience of going through hundreds of different photos from different devices new to old on a daily basis.
What we don't seem to see eye to eye on is what constitues real innovation, and what is incrimental changes and gimmicks.
Don't even remember what this thread was originally supposed to be discussing we've been át this for so long. To no result.

Posted via CB10

[app_Developer]

Don't know pixel-binning or which phones have them, but I have used multi camera phones. What I have done more of is see and work with the photos coming out of them.

I guess it's still surprising to me that you're not seeing the improvement. Photography is one of my major hobbies, and I have a lot of pretty good glass and a bunch of different dslrs and rangefinders over the years.

Years ago I would be in a situation and I'd still say "oh I wish I had a camera on me!". Now I really don't. Yeah of course there is still reason to have cameras, but you can't always have the right lens and the right body with you at the right time. Life doesn't work that way. And for the times you don't have all that with you, I find my phone is now a perfectly fine solution. I don't find myself saying "oh, let me go back and get my camera" or "why didn't I bring a camera?!"

In my case this is with the 12 Pro Max, which is my DD. But I think you can say the same about any of the phones avail from the bigger brands today.

[eshropshire]

I guess it's still surprising to me that you're not seeing the improvement. Photography is one of my major hobbies, and I have a lot of pretty good glass and a bunch of different dslrs and rangefinders over the years.

Years ago I would be in a situation and I'd still say "oh I wish I had a camera on me!". Now I really don't. Yeah of course there is still reason to have cameras, but you can't always have the right lens and the right body with you at the right time. Life doesn't work that way. And for the times you don't have all that with you, I find my phone is now a perfectly fine solution. I don't find myself saying "oh, let me go back and get my camera" or "why didn't I bring a camera?!"

In my case this is with the 12 Pro Max, which is my DD. But I think you can say the same about any of the phones avail from the bigger brands today.

100% agree. As someone who has been actively engaged in photography for almost 50 years I love the improvements and convince of mobile phone photography. Over the years I have owned and currently own a lot of very nice and expensive cameras and lenses. I have done a good amount of pro work. But, I have always said the best camera is the one you have with you.

I would not take my phone as my only camera to a photo shoot. But, I do take it and use it with some apps to help. I use it in the studio a lot. Pictures go to my phone and laptop and make them easy to review.

Four years ago I would often carry a dedicated digital camera for family events and small trips, today, very seldom. For almost all every day photography needs I use my phone. Easy, fast, convenient and takes great pictures for what I need.

I bought my first digital camera in 1997, just a fun experiment, I bought at least one new digital year for many years. The 2002 Olympics was the last time I used a film camera. Great change and advaces over the years but the rate of change in dedicated cameras has slowed. Simple Point and shoot cameras have almost disappeared from the maket. Why, because people are satisfied with their phone camera and most people don't want to carry two devices.

[app_Developer]

Relevant and interesting video from today comparing current phones to current cameras. Not scientific, but pretty interesting...

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Relevant and interesting video from today comparing current phones to current cameras. Not scientific, but pretty interesting...

In the hands of most of us... a $6000 pro camera would be wasted. I've played with my wife's iPhone 12 Pro Max, and for the most part it's just "dummy proof" for getting great shots in a variety of situations.

There are uses cases for having a good camera and the right lenses..... but day to day, and even some vacations, a good flagship phone is the ticket.

[eshropshire]

In the hands of most of us... a $6000 pro camera would be wasted. I've played with my wife's iPhone 12 Pro Max, and for the most part it's just "dummy proof" for getting great shots in a variety of situations.

There are uses cases for having a good camera and the right lenses..... but day to day, and even some vacations, a good flagship phone is the ticket.

So true, I remember back in the early 2000s when DSLRs were starting to become affordable, under $2000. The cameras were built for enthusiasts and could be used by both experiences and more entry level photographers. A few very entry level people with a lot of money bought pro level DSLRs $5K+ and could not figure out why they did not have auto features and the cameras took such poor photos.

[conite]

So true, I remember back in the early 2000s when DSLRs were starting to become affordable, under $2000. The cameras were built for enthusiasts and could be used by both experiences and more entry level photographers. A few very entry level people with a lot of money bought pro level DSLRs $5K+ and could not figure out why they did not have auto features and the cameras took such poor photos.

Still love my mirrorless micro 4/3 camera. I won't pay more than $1000.

[the_boon]

100% agree. As someone who has been actively engaged in photography for almost 50 years I love the improvements and convince of mobile phone photography. Over the years I have owned and currently own a lot of very nice and expensive cameras and lenses. I have done a good amount of pro work. But, I have always said the best camera is the one you have with you.

I would not take my phone as my only camera to a photo shoot. But, I do take it and use it with some apps to help. I use it in the studio a lot. Pictures go to my phone and laptop and make them easy to review.

Four years ago I would often carry a dedicated digital camera for family events and small trips, today, very seldom. For almost all every day photography needs I use my phone. Easy, fast, convenient and takes great pictures for what I need.

I bought my first digital camera in 1997, just a fun experiment, I bought at least one new digital year for many years. The 2002 Olympics was the last time I used a film camera. Great change and advaces over the years but the rate of change in dedicated cameras has slowed. Simple Point and shoot cameras have almost disappeared from the maket. Why, because people are satisfied with their phone camera and most people don't want to carry two devices.

Yeah it doesn't matter how good smartphone cameras have become, if you're being paid to film an event, you can't just show up with a phone.

Hence why I find all that "Pro" and "Ultra" phone naming kind of gimmicky.

[idssteve]

Anyone hear from @belfastdispatcher lately? He was pretty big in chem-photo, I recall. ?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yeah it doesn't matter how good smartphone cameras have become, if you're being paid to film an event, you can't just show up with a phone.

Hence why I find all that "Pro" and "Ultra" phone naming kind of gimmicky.

No if you paying someone $1000 to document your special day... you expect them to use a pro camera and not a pro phone.

But the other couple hundred folks at that wedding will be fine using their phone for personal pictures... some of which might make it into the brides photo album. Back in the day a couple might put a disposable camera on the table to help capture special moments... today they give out a hashtag to use and then ask for the original if the see something they like.

[Troy Tiscareno]

While I've been paid to take photos many times, I'm not a pro photographer. But I *was* a pro videographer for a few years, and while still and motion photography certainly have some important differences, many things are still the same or very similar.

Here's a video comparing my previous phone, the LG V30 ($1000 new) to a Red "Weapon" digital cinema camera (just the body, with no lenses or accessories, was $50,000 new). While certainly no one is suggesting that Spielberg should dump his cinema cameras in favor of a cell phone, the point of this comparison is to show that, as recently as 2015 or so, the difference between these videos would have been apparent and obvious to everyone... but a 2017 LG V30 really isn't that far away from the Red Weapon until you blow it up on a big projector or have a pro monitor to do the comparison. It's actually astounding just how good this phone looks compared to the cinema camera. Certainly, it's good enough to do a student film with.

Check it out:

[the_boon]

No if you paying someone $1000 to document your special day... you expect them to use a pro camera and not a pro phone.

But the other couple hundred folks at that wedding will be fine using their phone for personal pictures... some of which might make it into the brides photo album. Back in the day a couple might put a disposable camera on the table to help capture special moments... today they give out a hashtag to use and then ask for the original if the see something they like.

I just don't think anyone really *needs* "pro" phones with a ton of camera lenses, unless maybe for secondary/backup run and gun shots on a low budget production.

For everyone else, a single shooter with good OIS, processing and night mode will be more than enough for just about any situation.

Hence why, to me, said "pro" phones are another attempt at keeping people excited about slabs.

[belfastdispatcher]

He’s still around I hear but he lost all interest in phones. He’s still messing about with film cameras and a vintage digital slr he only bought because he had lots of lenses for it, Konica Minolta 7D.

Nice to see he’s still remembered

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I just don't think anyone really *needs* "pro" phones with a ton of camera lenses, unless maybe for secondary/backup run and gun shots on a low budget production.

For everyone else, a single shooter with good OIS, processing and night mode will be more than enough for just about any situation.

Hence why, to me, said "pro" phones are another attempt at keeping people excited about slabs.

Well for people that are good with "more than enough".... there are the none pro versions. For those that want more than just enough, there are the PRO versions.

Maybe they should have used "PRO", just stuck with adjectives like PLUS or ULTRA?

Anyway your just not happy they don't offer more than SLAB phones... which is sad. But in the end there doesn't seem to be a market for them... at least not more than a million users YoY.

Most OEM gave up a decade ago... the few that have played around with PKB have only defined the market isn't able to support the desire with the growing costs and that market contracts.

[the_boon]

Well for people that are good with "more than enough".... there are the none pro versions. For those that want more than just enough, there are the PRO versions.

Maybe they should have used "PRO", just stuck with adjectives like PLUS or ULTRA?

Anyway your just not happy they don't offer more than SLAB phones... which is sad. But in the end there doesn't seem to be a market for them... at least not more than a million users YoY.

Most OEM gave up a decade ago... the few that have played around with PKB have only defined the market isn't able to support the desire with the growing costs and that market contracts.

I find it just ludicrous how they're still able to somewhat get people excited with the same form factor over and over again...

Like people are seemingly rushing to buy the S21 phones when they're really hardly any different in the overall experience they'll bring, than the S10 series from two years ago.

[howarmat]

I find it just ludicrous how they're still able to somewhat get people excited with the same form factor over and over again...

Like people are seemingly rushing to buy the S21 phones when they're really hardly any different in the overall experience they'll bring, than the S10 series from two years ago.

You have to remember that stuff fails, batteries degrade and depending on manufacturer the updates stop. Carriers may no longer carry the S10 or the cost is similar between the newest phones. Lots of times there is incentives to get the latest and greatest over older ones. Many people are “excited” as much as they just need to replace their old phone and when there are millions on replacement cycles every year it makes sense for yearly refreshes.

[Chuck Finley69]

I find it just ludicrous how they're still able to somewhat get people excited with the same form factor over and over again...

Like people are seemingly rushing to buy the S21 phones when they're really hardly any different in the overall experience they'll bring, than the S10 series from two years ago.

It’s possible that many excited people are coming from older phones and even other brands too. Either way, it’s their money. For many, it’s their piece of happiness in an unhappiness filled life.....

[conite]

I find it just ludicrous how they're still able to somewhat get people excited with the same form factor over and over again...

Like people are seemingly rushing to buy the S21 phones when they're really hardly any different in the overall experience they'll bring, than the S10 series from two years ago.

The upgrade cycle is likely 3 years, so most of these folks are coming from a S9. That's a pretty nice jump.

Laptops are pretty much the same form-factor year after year - as are skis and coats. New is nice.

[Chuck Finley69]

The upgrade cycle is likely 3 years, so most of these folks are coming from a S9. That's a pretty nice jump.

Laptops are pretty much the same form-factor year after year - as are skis and coats. New is nice.

That’s my argument for going to strip clubs and rental girlfriends..........