[joeldf]

The upgrade cycle is likely 3 years, so most of these folks are coming from a S9. That's a pretty nice jump.

Laptops are pretty much the same form-factor year after year - as are skis and coats. New is nice.

I just upgraded from an S9 to the S20 FE. It had a decent drop in price at AT&T once the S21 line came out.

It's nice to have an flat screen without curved edges again. The BlackBerry keyboard still works nicely.

[app_Developer]

I find it just ludicrous how they're still able to somewhat get people excited with the same form factor over and over again...

Like people are seemingly rushing to buy the S21 phones when they're really hardly any different in the overall experience they'll bring, than the S10 series from two years ago.

We all have different interests and different hobbies. Probably you would find half the things I buy are ludicrous to you, but then I might find it ludicrous that people buy other things that I don't have a big interest in.

I get new phones a lot (iPhone every year and Pixel like every other). I appreciate the differences and it's still a fun experience for me. It's not as earth-shattering as when I opened my first BB or my first iPhone. Those are once in a decade experiences, of course. But the annual upgrade are still fun.

And as others have said, most people get every second or third phone in the series, so they get even bigger upgrades. Imagine going from an iPhone 8 to a 12.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

We all have different interests and different hobbies. Probably you would find half the things I buy are ludicrous to you, but then I might find it ludicrous that people buy other things that I don't have a big interest in.

I get new phones a lot (iPhone every year and Pixel like every other). I appreciate the differences and it's still a fun experience for me. It's not as earth-shattering as when I opened my first BB or my first iPhone. Those are once in a decade experiences, of course. But the annual upgrade are still fun.

And as others have said, most people get every second or third phone in the series, so they get even bigger upgrades. Imagine going from an iPhone 8 to a 12.

My wife just went from an iPhone 7 Max to an iPhone 12 Pro Max.... huge upgrade in her view. (of course I think a new battery was her only real issue.... )

But manufactures throwing out a new model every year.... is a long standing tradition. Things change and improvements in components, technologies and manufacturing happen all the time. So manufactures push out something new every year, knowing that not everyone is going to buy a new car each year, or replace their existing washing machine or bump up the TV....

[app_Developer]

My wife just went from an iPhone 7 Max to an iPhone 12 Pro Max.... huge upgrade in her view. (of course I think a new battery was her only real issue.... )

But manufactures throwing out a new model every year.... is a long standing tradition. Things change and improvements in components, technologies and manufacturing happen all the time. So manufactures push out something new every year, knowing that not everyone is going to buy a new car each year, or replace their existing washing machine or bump up the TV....

In the car business, we do the same thing. We have new car models every year. And then every 5-7 years in a particular line we have more substantial changes.

That doesn't mean people buy a new car every year. It just means when their lease is up or they want a new car, we hope to have something that they really love because we've been incrementally improving the product every single year. It's what we do.

[bh7171]

We all have different interests and different hobbies. Probably you would find half the things I buy are ludicrous to you, but then I might find it ludicrous that people buy other things that I don't have a big interest in.

I get new phones a lot (iPhone every year and Pixel like every other). I appreciate the differences and it's still a fun experience for me. It's not as earth-shattering as when I opened my first BB or my first iPhone. Those are once in a decade experiences, of course. But the annual upgrade are still fun.

And as others have said, most people get every second or third phone in the series, so they get even bigger upgrades. Imagine going from an iPhone 8 to a 12.

Or from the iPhone 8 to 2020 SE? One would have to do a double take and honestly that's ok for many as well. Porsche did ok with the 911 for generations of incremental changes until everyone wanted an SUV. The iPhone 4 and 4s design language was the zenith for a slab until it wasn't but is again and all new with the 12

This whole smartphone evolution is kind of funny actually. Edge screens were the hot, best thing until they weren't again. Head phone jacks are unnecessary because they give rise to increased battery size, unless your iPhone then its just to sell your new wireless headphones. My A71 5G has a 4500 size battery and head phone jack go figure..

Now foldables are new (again)..... Here is to me hoping the new 5G Blackberry Qwerty by OM lights up the desires of those that miss their former PKB devices. If all the above can happen with slab certainly the PKB has a chance as well.

[app_Developer]

Porsche did ok with the 911 for generations of incremental changes until everyone wanted an SUV.

Yes, and then all the $$$ from the Cayenne and Macan have allowed Porsche to do even better than ever with the 911. The 992 is a special car (yes, I do keep my 964 also, because it was special in a different way. But by any possible objective measure, the 992 is amazing)

[bh7171]

In the car business, we do the same thing. We have new car models every year. And then every 5-7 years in a particular line we have more substantial changes.

That doesn't mean people buy a new car every year. It just means when their lease is up or they want a new car, we hope to have something that they really love because we've been incrementally improving the product every single year. It's what we do.

Veh platforms are generational meaning the frame, power train, etc are mainly unchanged for at least 4 calendar years. Usually subtle tweaks to cosmetics or to underlying issues with new power trains. Best bet on vehicles is after the mid cycle refresh.

Slabs are now actually quite similar. The processor in my sons 6th gen iPad doesn't seem any real day slower than my daughter's newer iPhone 12 and she doesn't notice any perceptible differences to her former XR except that her XR had better battery life in a two year older device. The latest and greatest is not always better...

[the_boon]

Imagine going from an iPhone 8 to a 12.

I would have laughed if you said " from the 8 to the SE 2020 "

[the_boon]

My wife just went from an iPhone 7 Max to an iPhone 12 Pro Max.... huge upgrade in her view. (of course I think a new battery was her only real issue.... )

But manufactures throwing out a new model every year.... is a long standing tradition. Things change and improvements in components, technologies and manufacturing happen all the time. So manufactures push out something new every year, knowing that not everyone is going to buy a new car each year, or replace their existing washing machine or bump up the TV....

They try to make it look like they care for the environment by removing the charging brick and headphones from the box ... lol, if they really cared, they would extend the smartphone release cycle to every 1.5 years or more , since we know these tiny incremental changes are insignificant for the most part.

It would also help consumers not feel left behind so damn quickly when their new phone (assuming they buy at launch) is going to remain the newest for a year and a half or even two full years. It would also help maintain the resale value though obviously manufacturers don't care in the slightest about that.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Or from the iPhone 8 to 2020 SE? One would have to do a double take and honestly that's ok for many as well. Porsche did ok with the 911 for generations of incremental changes until everyone wanted an SUV. The iPhone 4 and 4s design language was the zenith for a slab until it wasn't but is again and all new with the 12

This whole smartphone evolution is kind of funny actually. Edge screens were the hot, best thing until they weren't again. Head phone jacks are unnecessary because they give rise to increased battery size, unless your iPhone then its just to sell your new wireless headphones. My A71 5G has a 4500 size battery and head phone jack go figure..

Now foldable are new (again)..... Here is to me hoping the new 5G Blackberry Qwerty by OM lights up the desires of those that miss their former PKB devices. If all the above can happen with slab certainly the PKB has a chance as well.

I have to wonder do those of you that think the decline of the PKB format was a result of outside pressures that can be somehow overcome.... not ever associate and talk to people that don't use a PKB phone now?

Just think we are to the point where we are dealing with about seven or eight very different PKB markets.... none of which will support more than 100K in YoY sales. There are real reasons that OEMs have stopped offering these costly and non-profitable form factors. Folds and Wings are attempts at something new or different.... to offer what consumers want - MORE SCREEN SIZE.

Sadly the only PKB that can do that is a Slider, and it's an even more costly attempt.... and not what pure PKB lovers want.

And none of which helps bring back BB10....

[the_boon]

I have to wonder do those of you that think the decline of the PKB format was a result of outside pressures that can be somehow overcome.... not ever associate and talk to people that don't use a PKB phone now?

Just think we are to the point where we are dealing with about seven or eight very different PKB markets.... none of which will support more than 100K in YoY sales. There are real reasons that OEMs have stopped offering these costly and non-profitable form factors. Folds and Wings are attempts at something new or different.... to offer what consumers want - MORE SCREEN SIZE.

Sadly the only PKB that can do that is a Slider, and it's an even more costly attempt.... and not what pure PKB lovers want.

And none of which helps bring back BB10....

Indeed, offering consumers their big display and a keyboard seems to be most doable via the slider or add-on attachment.

[bh7171]

I have to wonder do those of you that think the decline of the PKB format was a result of outside pressures that can be somehow overcome.... not ever associate and talk to people that don't use a PKB phone now?

Just think we are to the point where we are dealing with about seven or eight very different PKB markets.... none of which will support more than 100K in YoY sales. There are real reasons that OEMs have stopped offering these costly and non-profitable form factors. Folds and Wings are attempts at something new or different.... to offer what consumers want - MORE SCREEN SIZE.

Sadly the only PKB that can do that is a Slider, and it's an even more costly attempt.... and not what pure PKB lovers want.

And none of which helps bring back BB10....

Just think if Apple had made a PKB device? And wonder if they have a foldable in the works??

[the_boon]

Just think if Apple had made a PKB device? And wonder if they have a foldable in the works??

Apple is probably the last manufacturer out there that will ever bring out any PKB solution in any way, shape or form. They despise clicky buttons so much that they even patented a Macbook that doesn't have a PKB (or has one but as an afterthought).

I could hold some hope for one from literally anyone else but that fruit brand.

[idssteve]

He’s still around I hear but he lost all interest in phones. He’s still messing about with film cameras and a vintage digital slr he only bought because he had lots of lenses for it, Konica Minolta 7D.

Nice to see he’s still remembered

Great to hear he's still kick'n!! If you see him tell him some of us are still thumbing the best thumb we can in his absence!! Lol.

Still got my NikonF fitted to homebuilt 12" refrac tele... Sadly no film... Lol.

[idssteve]

Or from the iPhone 8 to 2020 SE? One would have to do a double take and honestly that's ok for many as well. Porsche did ok with the 911 for generations of incremental changes until everyone wanted an SUV. The iPhone 4 and 4s design language was the zenith for a slab until it wasn't but is again and all new with the 12

This whole smartphone evolution is kind of funny actually. Edge screens were the hot, best thing until they weren't again. Head phone jacks are unnecessary because they give rise to increased battery size, unless your iPhone then its just to sell your new wireless headphones. My A71 5G has a 4500 size battery and head phone jack go figure..

Now foldables are new (again)..... Here is to me hoping the new 5G Blackberry Qwerty by OM lights up the desires of those that miss their former PKB devices. If all the above can happen with slab certainly the PKB has a chance as well.

Ha! I remember when cars had tail fins! Only thing 57 Chevy fins were good for was a right rear blind spot...lol. Consumers LOVED them tho. Bigger each year... Till 58 Chevy made'm flat... Just when EVERYone else was catching up! Lol. Poor Cadillac got most ridiculous... And years behind the flat "trend"... Embarrassing consumerism... Lol.

Btw, I recall reading some old pop-mechs or pop-sci or? That explained the theory of chevy's tail fins to afford self correction in strong side winds... This was long before radial tires on Chevys. lol. The principal sanity checks, sorta. At about 200mph... They needed at least quadrupled surface area for reasonable effectiveness at 70... Lol.

Lesson? Consumers aren't always so rationally guided in their desires... Lol.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Just think if Apple had made a PKB device? And wonder if they have a foldable in the works??

Yes they have a foldable in the works... bigger screens are what people want.

Apple knows that PKB aren't something people are "wanting". IF we see another mainstream player offer a PKB, I'd expect it to be Nokia or Palm (TCL), and more of a retro thing.
Samsung does offer some niche devices for specific "needs". Like the S20 Tactical Edition phone.... So if some industry came forward and said that they really, really need a PKB phone, Samsung might.....

And I don't mean Bank of America wanting 400 units - and we aren't talking about a phone you bother asking what it cost.

[idssteve]

Yes they have a foldable in the works... bigger screens are what people want.

Apple knows that PKB aren't something people are "wanting". IF we see another mainstream player offer a PKB, I'd expect it to be Nokia or Palm (TCL), and more of a retro thing.
Samsung does offer some niche devices for specific "needs". Like the S20 Tactical Edition phone.... So if some industry came forward and said that they really, really need a PKB phone, Samsung might.....

And I don't mean Bank of America wanting 400 units - and we aren't talking about a phone you bother asking what it cost.

Lol... If you must ask, you don't want to know...?? Lol. Users with specific wants are most likely to pay more than consumers "just trying things"...

Apple has never been about buttons. The first Apple kit "computer" I helped a friend assemble in the 70's didn't even ship with a KB... Lol. Wasn't their Mac's mouse "invention" in effort to displace typed command lines with graphic commands? Even original Mac mouse button "contacts" really weren't well implemented, imo. Their desktop KB have never compared well against IBM model M "clacKey", imo. What does? ?? Lol. Remember "thje"...??? Lol.

Likewise, is it humanly possible to improve on the best of Bold KB? ?? Steve Jobs likely understood Apple had no prayer bettering RIM's exquisite accomplishments... Better to just step around it... Which they did, with astounding success. I find it inconceivable that Apple would attempt a PKB... But??

As an originator of the desktop mouse, tho, something resembling RIM's optical trackpad might not prove beyond hope for them...?

If/when, forced into a slab he** er I mean reality, I'd certainly be first in line for a trackpad equipped iPhone... Lol.

[Ecm]

Since the request to get back on topic (Time for BlackBerry to re-release OS 10) has been ignored, the thread has been re-titled and moved to Off-Topic (since there is no discernable topic anymore).

[idssteve]

If it's my bad, my apologies. Promise to pay better attention... Sorry.

[Ecm]

If it's my bad, my apologies. Promise to pay better attention... Sorry.

Lol! If it were just you, I would have let you know by PM. But no, this was a group effort.
But since most seem to be enjoying themselves, let them rock 'n roll.