[Fr3lncr]

Really? What would you call it?

see...

The Rise to and fall from dominance would be a more accurate title

+10char

[BlackStormRising]

So I guess BGR has finally spent its last RIM bullet. It would have been better without all the anonymous sources, but it is what it is. Time to move onto bigger game BGR, start getting some scoops on the "real" players in the consumer market now.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[johnenglish]

No one is saying BGR made this up or the story is false. All peoople are saying is that this doesn't in anyway live up to the hype that lead up to the story. It's just a collection of anonymous anecdotes that give examples on how RIM got into this postition. It's interesting to some extent but it's not saying anything that people don't already know.

Did the hype and title generate pageviews? Absolutely, and to a media company that's what matters at the end of the day.

[jd914]

I laugh at you so called fanboys in regards to BGR... Seriously Blackberry lost it's space in the consumer market 2 years ago. Every product released in the last 3 years has yet to compete with Android or iOS, and now even WM7. Consumers are voting with their wallets and right now the majority is saying Blackberry devices don't suit their needs. If you don't like the news feel free to be a sheep of the once so great RIM until it's doors close or it's bought out. No need to slam the site for making false claims when their industry contacts paint a better picture at the workings of RIM than you'll ever realize, unless of course you currently do work for RIM.

Well said! Best post of this thread.

[m23haz]

I have been critical of BGR over the past few months because I thought that some of his reporting has been biased and taken an unnecessary negative tone with some headlines regarding RIM. However, I honestly think that this article was very good and his best reporting on RIM to date. He didn't throw in a bunch of personal jabs from himself, he just let the former employees tell the story of why the company has done the things they have done to get to this point.

Hopefully RIM management reads this and opens their eyes. However, knowing the personality type that Mike seems to be, I am really afraid now that he is never going to change or be the man that we want or need him to be in this current and future marketplace. I am now hoping that RIM can get some outside leadership to help them become prosperous again. All of the ingredients are there (TAT, QNX, PlayBook etc) to make this company a superpower again.

Please RIM, get back on track!

[BaconMunch]

This is where we disagree. It's not about dirty laundry. It's not about having the absolute biggest story. It's about why the former leader of the Worldwide Smartphone sales & user base have fallen way behind it's rivals. It helps you to understand the thinking and mindset inside the walls of Waterloo that's gotten them to said point.
You only have to read the story & remember that RIM was intending on shipping the 99xx with the same lame sub-standard processors & other hardware that's been used in previous models. It's incredulous. The delay was finally seeing the writing on the wall and saying wait we can't ship out 2008 hardware in 2011. That's why there's such a delay, but you knew this already. Point is it gives insight into the mind of the person/s behind this.
It can't be alright for us(CrackBerry) to rally behind RIM and have numerous blog posts(RIMpire, etc) talking of how it's all going to get better, yet when other publications which have no product affiliation, put out their own stories detailing how we got here, we then call them haters for doing so. There's always two sides of the coin and BGR isn't wrong for showing people it. It's not as if there has been any good info to report on the status RIM anyway. But we can't just hate a site because we're loyal to someone of which they write objectively about.

I think the story would have been more credible without BG's Twitter update: "Our huge RIM story should be up tomorrow AM, it's big. Like all of the biggest losers pre biggest loser combined."

I don't know what that has to do with with this article.

The consumer smartphone market exploded and RIM cannot lose something they never had, that market went straight to Apple and now Android, and even this comparison is looking at only at OS and not manufacturers. The PlayBook is RIM's first retail product. I think their acquisitions in the last two years are staging them to be a relevant contender in the consumer smartphone market. They currently exist in the consumer smartphone market because good tools translates to varied use. I completely agree that we were missing important consumer features for a long time.

In terms of keeping varied sources of reporting, I definitely agree. I could not listen to the webcast yesterday so I actually had 3 different liveblogs open following the AGM, and as expected I got a much more thorough telling of the events with all sources combined.

[DenverRalphy]

It's interesting to some extent but it's not saying anything that people don't already know.

If you're a reader who eats/sleeps/breathes RIM/BlackBerry news on a daily basis, maybe not. But that doesn't account for their entire readership.

[scorpiodsu]

Crap title to grab readership. It hasn't 'fallen'. (Maybe it will one day but that day hasn't happened yet). It's like publishing an obituary before the person has died because you've already written it up.

Fallen is accurate. I agree RIM isn't dead and I don't want them to die but since it once was smartphone king and now is, that means it has fallen from the top. So fallen is applicable. Having said that, I agree it's a title to get hits. Nothing new with today's wannabe "journalists".

[BBThemes]

Fallen is accurate. I agree RIM isn't dead and I don't want them to die but since it once was smartphone king and now is, that means it has fallen from the top. So fallen is applicable. Having said that, I agree it's a title to get hits. Nothing new with today's wannabe "journalists".

disagree, biggest smartphone vendor in the UK? that`ll be RIM then.

[brucep1]

No one is saying BGR made this up or the story is false. All peoople are saying is that this doesn't in anyway live up to the hype that lead up to the story. It's just a collection of anonymous anecdotes that give examples on how RIM got into this postition. It's interesting to some extent but it's not saying anything that people don't already know.

Did the hype and title generate pageviews? Absolutely, and to a media company that's what matters at the end of the day.

Did you know ALL of that stuff before? I had no idea about half that stuff, and I read tech sites daily.

The story I would really love to hear, however, is Mike's reaction to the Blackberry Storm. If he gets heated over MP3 players and cameras, I can't even imagine his reaction when he started using that device.

[scorpiodsu]

disagree, biggest smartphone vendor in the UK? that`ll be RIM then.

But we're not talking in specific markets. Just talking overall. So what they are the biggest in the UK, they still FELL from being the best worldwide and in a major market like the US and many other market to not being the best nor biggest. Regardless of how and where they fell, the fact is they fell. Now you guys just want to nit pick an article title because it doesn't specify. If doesn't need to specify because however any of us look at it, RIM fell in more ways than one. Personally, I don't need the title to specify.... that's what the article is for.

[jd914]

disagree, biggest smartphone vendor in the UK? that`ll be RIM then.

They were also the biggest smartphone vendor in the US at one point. It's only a matter of time when the rest of the world also begins to demand more performance of it's devices and looks elsewhere like in the US.

[johnenglish]

If you're a reader who eats/sleeps/breathes RIM/BlackBerry news on a daily basis, maybe not. But that doesn't account for their entire readership.

Considering all the media coverage RIM has received over the last 6 months you'd pretty much have to living under a rock to not know the problems they're facing.

[m23haz]

Considering all the media coverage RIM has received over the last 6 months you'd pretty much have to living under a rock to not know the problems their facing.

I really don't think so. My friends and the people around me think I am weird because I know and follow all of this stuff. They just want a phone to use and play with and they don't understand why I am all into it. I honestly don't think the average consumer knows whats really going on with the companies and products in great detail. I think that this is to RIM's advantage right now because if they can get some good press and sales with the new phones and knock it out of the park with the upcoming QNX phone they can make up this lost ground fairly quickly over the next 24 months.

However, if Mike L. continues to manage the way that BGR laid out today in that article then they are going to continue to have problems going forward. I don't care what anyone says, this gap can be closed with the right leadership, vision and products!

[calaviqpfza4]

Huh????

Something wrong?

I'm amazed on how many people are emotional invested in a company and it's technology (wether it be Apple, Rim or Android). The article is excellent and makes a lot of excellent points. Just because you're emotional involved with RIM, doesn't change the facts.

Wow, seriously it's just a phone, and it's just another tech. company.

[dooodads]

Wow that's actually a pretty amazing article.

[Rello]

great read......definitely was some things in there that were very interesting....

all in all, i just wanna know if these two CEO's are listening to these complaints and doing something to fix them.

we'll see once the first QNX devices come out...

[wayneholbrook]

Well said! Best post of this thread.

I've been making this point for so long now and get destroyed by Rim fanboys. Can't state the obvious without these fanboys losing it, love is blind!

[BBThemes]

They were also the biggest smartphone vendor in the US at one point. It's only a matter of time when the rest of the world also begins to demand more performance of it's devices and looks elsewhere like in the US.

why do people feel the rest of the world will follow the USA? heck you do know the most important company in smartphone manufacturing is from the UK right?

[wayneholbrook]

why do people feel the rest of the world will follow the USA? heck you do know the most important company in smartphone manufacturing is from the UK right?

Because the US is where the money is mate!

[vrs626]

disagree, biggest smartphone vendor in the UK? that`ll be RIM then.

Your argument is that RIM hasn't fallen because its the biggest smartphone vendor in the UK? Wow. I think you'd fit in really well over at RIM with the way you're able to keep your head buried in the sand.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I think the story would have been more credible without BG's Twitter update: "Our huge RIM story should be up tomorrow AM, it's big. Like all of the biggest losers pre biggest loser combined."

I don't know what that has to do with with this article.

I think there were some "big" things dropped for the average person. For instance how RIM opens new channels thus helping they're "units shipped" numbers. Of which many aren't sold just shipped. As the story wrote, this strategy is nearing capacity. This is big for shareholders and their future.

The Jim & Mike fights/arguments, how they affect employees and the rift between them due to various circumstances as well as the overall feeling that Jim loses out due to his lack of technical knowledge when compared to Mike.

The fact the PlayBook wasn't shipped at full margin.

And just the overall lack of foresight and actual research and development. This give people a better look into the everyday business at both a corporate & business level most people have never had to this point.

[jd914]

why do people feel the rest of the world will follow the USA? heck you do know the most important company in smartphone manufacturing is from the UK right?

It's a really simple sales concept "getting more for your money" just so happens the domino effect for RIM began in the US. Since you're a BB theme developer and I can understand your lack of objectivity.

[i7guy]

I guess I'm not objective either, because I own a blackberry and own a pile of RIMM stock.

[scorpiodsu]

why do people feel the rest of the world will follow the USA? heck you do know the most important company in smartphone manufacturing is from the UK right?

But are you even understanding that being the biggest in the UK isn't preventing RIM from slipping each quarter? Regardless of what happens in the UK, single handily it cannot save RIM. This is about RIM as an overall company falling from graces and not just in 1 market. Look at where RIM was positioned worldwide 4-5 years ago and look at it now. Big difference. And that is what this about. Not about how good they are doing in the UK and how bad they are doing in the US. It's about how they are doing as a whole. The UK didn't stop their stock from going from a little over 140 in 2008 to under 30 today.